• Cyburbia is a friendly big tent, where we share our experiences and thoughts about urban planning practice, the built environment, planning adjacent topics, and anything else that comes to mind. No ads, no spam, and it's free. It's easy to join!

NEVERENDING ♾️ The NEVERENDING Political Discussion Thread

Wannaplan? said:
Was on the east coast about six weeks ago, specifically in NYC and Boston, and I gotta admit, I fully understand why they are all pro-government Wokeheads, they got public transportation that works and is reliable. Imagine living day-to-day there reliant on government owned machines and vehicles and being like, umm, we need to stop Big Government intruding into our lives, our liberties are sacred and it's what matters most. SHEEESH!
Click to expand...
I live in S NH and travel to Boston a lot. I truly wish that red state voters could see some of these areas. I grew up in the rural South with counties that vote GOP 85/15. The worst parts of blue state cities are often nicer than 90% of red state towns/cities. Is government perfect? LOL, not even remotely. But is no government, no taxes, no revenue the answer, resoundingly not. You end up looking like most of the South and plains states. Barren ghost towns with poor roads, poor health outcomes, obesity rates higher than even American averages.

It's not even political, really, its just factual.
 
AnotherVariance said:
It's not even political, really, its just factual.
Click to expand...

Well, to be fair, there are plenty of Blue Cities in the Rust Belt that are "Barren ghost towns with poor roads, poor health outcomes, obesity rates higher than even American averages." Perhaps it has more to do with loss of tax base and available revenue.
 
Hawkeye66 said:
No conservatives actually work in local government do they? Besides like front like Street workers.
Click to expand...
In New England, I'd guess half of the Building Department staff (plans examiners, even counter staff, permit intake) to 2/3 are 'conservatives' and of this 2/3, 90% are silent because they know overall they're in 'enemy territory' (term used for effect not my feelings). But on the Planning and NGO side (LEAD programs, CDBG, Habitat) side it's maybe 5%.
 
Wannaplan? said:
Well, to be fair, there are plenty of Blue Cities in the Rust Belt that are "Barren ghost towns with poor roads, poor health outcomes, obesity rates higher than even American averages." Perhaps it has more to do with loss of tax base and available revenue.
Click to expand...
That was my main point, to be fair but yes, you're also correct.

How we break the "taxes are evil" fever in America, I just do not know.
 
michaelskis said:
I grew up as a conservative and there are still al lot of the principals that I agree with. But not all and I always vote split ticket. I believe that there is no one party that best fits my personal fundamental beliefs and it drives people mad. They automatically assume that if I don't vote D, then I am an R, and if I don't vote R then I vote D.

However, I have worked with two conservative/libertarians in my department over the past few years. I have also worked with three liberals, one of which is also an environmentalist. They are all great people, open minded about others ideas and beliefs, and I appreciate the conversations that we have because it makes our community better.
Click to expand...

That's the ideal we should all shoot for. I wish it was everywhere. It's not. I am glad you have that kind of situation.
 
AnotherVariance said:
That was my main point, to be fair but yes, you're also correct.

How we break the "taxes are evil" fever in America, I just do not know.
Click to expand...

We break it by being able to really justify spending. There is so much crap that the the Federal and State governments spend money on that they shouldn't be. More so, they over spend on somethings and under spend on others. It all comes down to how powerful is the lobbyist asking for a handout. The Treasury puts out nice charts and graphs like the one found at https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/federal-spending/ (Fiscal Data Explains Federal Spending) but when you dig into the numbers you find all sorts of stuff that should not be there, is completely worthless, or the opposite and grossly underfunded.
 
Gedunker said:
@Bubba - you've never posted a typo here?
Click to expand...
Leave me outta this, bro. :ttth:

Anyhoo, I figured that was about the mildest criticism I could reply with to a post containing that overall level of ignorance. We're supposed to be welcoming and tolerant and stuff here, amirite?
 
michaelskis said:
That is good to hear. I guess CBS news did not fact check deep enough.


It still does not change my frustrations on how the federal government fails to provide adequate care and assistance for military veterans.
Click to expand...
Like I’ve posted before, veterans with a discharge status that is anything but “honorable” generally bars them from receiving services and benefits. The veterans most in need of services are the ones that don’t have an honorable discharge. Congress makes the rules….
 
Bubba said:
Leave me outta this, bro. :ttth:

Anyhoo, I figured that was about the mildest criticism I could reply with to a post containing that overall level of ignorance. We're supposed to be welcoming and tolerant and stuff here, amirite?
Click to expand...

Not sure what is ignorant? For 50 years Southern red states (and I should know, I was born and raised and educated in one) have ranked in the bottom 10% of QOL measures while coastal blue states rank near the top. Now if you want to argue that you (rhetorical) don't care about stuff like access to health care or obesity, or whatever, for rhetorical YOU, that's fine. Plenty of people just want to shoot guns in their yards inside city limits or have a junkyard next to a public park, unfettered. (I'm generalizing, and speaking rhetorically, not TO you.)
 
For me the environment is a big issue. As cities we have signed consent decrees, etc. to modernize sewer systems, etc, but we allow cows to literally deficate in creeks and rivers.

I was signed up for a bike/swim even Sunday, but the swim portion was cancelled. E-Coli too high. That is pathetic. Our governor refuses to do anything. We have algae blooms, and a gulf dead zone (Why Louisiana doesn't sue the Upper Midwest is beyond me). Then the SCOTUS says the EPA is overreaching. My mayor and council support this governor a great deal. How long do I pretend? I feel lame somewhat for just staying in my job. I am trying to help a town that would probably hate me if they really knew me.
 
Hawkeye66 said:
How long do I pretend? I feel lame somewhat for just staying in my job.
Click to expand...
You've stayed in your job so that you could be the best possible father to your 4 sons, who really have no other parental figure except for you.
That's the OPPOSITE of lame!
 
78rpm said:
You've stayed in your job so that you could be the best possible father to your 4 sons, who really have no other parental figure except for you.
That's the OPPOSITE of lame!
Click to expand...

The youngest graduates in 2 years and I am going to go freelance and take advantage of being an Xer. More money, less responsibility.

I meant lame for staying in it knowing I am working for people who would not like me.
 
Hawkeye66 said:
For me the environment is a big issue. As cities we have signed consent decrees, etc. to modernize sewer systems, etc, but we allow cows to literally deficate in creeks and rivers.

I was signed up for a bike/swim even Sunday, but the swim portion was cancelled. E-Coli too high. That is pathetic. Our governor refuses to do anything. We have algae blooms, and a gulf dead zone (Why Louisiana doesn't sue the Upper Midwest is beyond me). Then the SCOTUS says the EPA is overreaching. My mayor and council support this governor a great deal. How long do I pretend? I feel lame somewhat for just staying in my job. I am trying to help a town that would probably hate me if they really knew me.
Click to expand...
Seems like SCOTUS is now a panel of medical experts, religious authorities, and geologists.
 
So I saw some stuff on Twitter to the effect that a Cessna jet was flying from Elizabethton, TN, to Long Island MacArthur Airport, NY. As it was about to begin descent, it took a U-turn, flew over BWI & DCA airports, the Washington, DC, and continued over Virginia. The aircraft was cruising at 34,000 feet and was not responsive. As it came over DC restricted air space, F-16s were scrambled to intercept it. The plane eventually ran out of fuel and crashed in SW VA. I've seen reports claiming that the plane lost cabin pressurization and the pilot was unconscious due to hypoxia.

The plane was owned by Encore Motors of Melbourne, FL, which is owned by John Rumpel. Some reports say the aircraft was registered to Barbara Rumpel (John's wife); they are on the board of directors for the NRA.

Facts are still emerging about the incident, but watching the conspiracy theories spin up in real time is fascinating.


 
AnotherVariance said:
Not sure what is ignorant? For 50 years Southern red states (and I should know, I was born and raised and educated in one) have ranked in the bottom 10% of QOL measures while coastal blue states rank near the top. Now if you want to argue that you (rhetorical) don't care about stuff like access to health care or obesity, or whatever, for rhetorical YOU, that's fine. Plenty of people just want to shoot guns in their yards inside city limits or have a junkyard next to a public park, unfettered. (I'm generalizing, and speaking rhetorically, not TO you.)
Click to expand...
Of course you're totally just speaking rhetorically. As noted to the mods, I'll just be welcoming and tolerant and stuff.
 
The NC Governor is taking a practical step in the right direction when it come to securing firearms. This afternoon he will be announcing a new program called NC S.A.F.E with a focus on properly securing firearms, preventing thefts, and most importantly, preventing them from getting into the hands of others, especially kids. As a gun owner, I applaud this step forward. But it is only a step. I would like to see additional regulation requiring that all fire arms be sold with a locking case, trigger lock, or other method of securing the firearm. Not just for pistols, but for all firearms.

Here is the link to the program that the NC Governor will be announcing today:

NC S.A.F.E.

North Carolina, we have an urgent problem: Too many guns are falling into the wrong hands. If you own a firearm, make sure it’s safely secured. Lock it up. Keep it safe.
www.ncsafe.org www.ncsafe.org
 
^^It's a start at least.

Related: Recent news story that a veterinarian at Churchill Downs had his vehicle illegally entered (the window was down and the door unlocked so it wasn't a break-in) from which the perp took not one, but two handguns, from the glovebox. I wouldn't trust my horse's butt to some yahoo that drives around with two handguns in his glovebox. Jeez.
 
Gedunker said:
^^It's a start at least.

Related: Recent news story that a veterinarian at Churchill Downs had his vehicle illegally entered (the window was down and the door unlocked so it wasn't a break-in) from which the perp took not one, but two handguns, from the glovebox. I wouldn't trust my horse's butt to some yahoo that drives around with two handguns in his glovebox. Jeez.
Click to expand...
So many people drive around with handguns in their cars. The police here talk about how often they have a handgun reported stolen from unlocked cars.
 
Gedunker said:
^^It's a start at least.

Related: Recent news story that a veterinarian at Churchill Downs had his vehicle illegally entered (the window was down and the door unlocked so it wasn't a break-in) from which the perp took not one, but two handguns, from the glovebox. I wouldn't trust my horse's butt to some yahoo that drives around with two handguns in his glovebox. Jeez.
Click to expand...
bureaucrat#3 said:
So many people drive around with handguns in their cars. The police here talk about how often they have a handgun reported stolen from unlocked cars.
Click to expand...
At this point, there should be State and/or Federal law mandating some high minimum insurance requirements to own any gun.
 
michaelskis said:
The NC Governor is taking a practical step in the right direction when it come to securing firearms. This afternoon he will be announcing a new program called NC S.A.F.E with a focus on properly securing firearms, preventing thefts, and most importantly, preventing them from getting into the hands of others, especially kids. As a gun owner, I applaud this step forward. But it is only a step. I would like to see additional regulation requiring that all fire arms be sold with a locking case, trigger lock, or other method of securing the firearm. Not just for pistols, but for all firearms.

Here is the link to the program that the NC Governor will be announcing today:

NC S.A.F.E.

North Carolina, we have an urgent problem: Too many guns are falling into the wrong hands. If you own a firearm, make sure it’s safely secured. Lock it up. Keep it safe.
www.ncsafe.org www.ncsafe.org
Click to expand...
It is a common sense requirement that if you own a firearm that you need to keep it secured because kids, unstable household members, criminals, etc. Now that electronic tracing is a thing, I hope the ATF can suss out straw buyers purchasing firearms for nefarious use. This remains a big issue for state with stringent gun control with firearms coming in from other states. 84% of the 3,200 firearms successfully traced in NJ during 2021 had origin states other than NJ. PA, GA, SC, VA, NC, FL combined were the source of 1,945 or 60% of firearms traced.
 
kjel said:
It is a common sense requirement that if you own a firearm that you need to keep it secured because kids, unstable household members, criminals, etc. Now that electronic tracing is a thing, I hope the ATF can suss out straw buyers purchasing firearms for nefarious use. This remains a big issue for state with stringent gun control with firearms coming in from other states. 84% of the 3,200 firearms successfully traced in NJ during 2021 had origin states other than NJ. PA, GA, SC, VA, NC, FL combined were the source of 1,945 or 60% of firearms traced.
Click to expand...
That's the issue we in IL have coming from IN. You can literally cross a street on foot from IN into IL/City of Chicago.
 
kjel said:
NJ law enforcement calls those states the Iron Pipeline (I-95 corridor).
Click to expand...

That's strange, I hear I-95 be called the Prostitution Pipeline because of the amount of human trafficing that occurs along this major north-south corridor.

Additionally, The Bureau of Justice statistics claims that 10% of crime guns come from retail business, while 43% are bought on the street, most of which are illegal. The problem is how these guns are ending up on the market and a step in the right direction is having people properly secure their guns and not let unauthorized persons get access to them.
 
I think every interstate is the "something" corridor. I-17 and I-10 here are blamed for a lot of the immigration traffic. I-70 in Kansas is blamed for sex traffic and drugs. Part of me wants to say "duh" it's an interstate. How else do you expect to get around. Criminals like using the faster interstate roads over state roads just as much as the next person.
 
AnotherVariance said:
Not sure what is ignorant? For 50 years Southern red states (and I should know, I was born and raised and educated in one) have ranked in the bottom 10% of QOL measures while coastal blue states rank near the top. Now if you want to argue that you (rhetorical) don't care about stuff like access to health care or obesity, or whatever, for rhetorical YOU, that's fine. Plenty of people just want to shoot guns in their yards inside city limits or have a junkyard next to a public park, unfettered. (I'm generalizing, and speaking rhetorically, not TO you.)
Click to expand...

You're pretty new here, so I'm going to offer up a little advice.

While this doesn't cross lines (especially in the political "gloves off" thread), this response and continued grinding isn't going to win you many friends by slapping some very broad strokes geographically, including this mod in a southern state. Even if you're from the south, I'm just letting you know that you're coming off as smug and elitist, which is a common accusation from a southerner towards our coastal friends.

You know as well as anyone that the QOL variable itself varies greatly in what is measured, and the causes of the variability in some QOL measures similarly varies. I've seen examples that are like "OMG Texas is a hole" and examples that say "OMG Texas is the best." Florida is a handy one that is in headlines these days, and often ranks pretty high in traditional QOL measures (retirees have been moving there for decades for a reason), but the legislative climate now points towards QOL may be trending negative for some groups and in education measures. It also depends on whether you account for economic opportunity/mobility in your QOL measures--Florida typically does bad on those measures.
 
bureaucrat#3 said:
So many people drive around with handguns in their cars. The police here talk about how often they have a handgun reported stolen from unlocked cars.
Click to expand...
I continue to be amazed by this as well. The one cop I'm friends with often laments the idiots with their Glock and Sig Sauer stickers on the back window of their vehicles, "like they want someone to break into their car." His officers have even left notes on vehicles when they could actually see the gun through the window.
 
I wonder if you could enact a law to make "failure to secure a firearm" a crime? So people who leave their gun in a car and it gets stolen could themselves be prosecuted for being a dumbass?
 
Wannaplan? said:
Many on here are like that, so what's with the finger wagging?
Click to expand...
storm warning fear GIF by South Park
 
michaelskis said:
That's strange, I hear I-95 be called the Prostitution Pipeline because of the amount of human trafficing that occurs along this major north-south corridor.

Additionally, The Bureau of Justice statistics claims that 10% of crime guns come from retail business, while 43% are bought on the street, most of which are illegal. The problem is how these guns are ending up on the market and a step in the right direction is having people properly secure their guns and not let unauthorized persons get access to them.
Click to expand...
Despite technology existing, the ATF is barred from having an electronic database to trace firearms to individuals. All traces between the gun manufacturer and retailer are straightforward, but after that the ATF has to review paper files. As you pointed out, a lot can happen between the first retail purchase and when a firearm is recovered during a crime. While I am sure that firearms are often stolen from legitimate owners, I also think there are people acting as straw buyers putting firearms on the black market. I personally think that there shouldn't be any unpermitted sales of firearms between private parties.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that someone who chooses to own a firearm to store it responsibly, competently use the firearm, report it when it's stolen, and be held accountable if they don't.
 
kjel said:
Despite technology existing, the ATF is barred from having an electronic database to trace firearms to individuals. All traces between the gun manufacturer and retailer are straightforward, but after that the ATF has to review paper files. As you pointed out, a lot can happen between the first retail purchase and when a firearm is recovered during a crime. While I am sure that firearms are often stolen from legitimate owners, I also think there are people acting as straw buyers putting firearms on the black market. I personally think that there shouldn't be any unpermitted sales of firearms between private parties.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that someone who chooses to own a firearm to store it responsibly, competently use the firearm, report it when it's stolen, and be held accountable if they don't.
Click to expand...
www.nbcbayarea.com

Personal Info on California Gun Owners Wrongly Made Public

The California Department of Justice says it wrongly made public the personal information of perhaps hundreds of thousands of gun owners in up to six state-operated databases.
www.nbcbayarea.com www.nbcbayarea.com

In wake of Journal News publishing gun permit holder maps, nation sees push to limit access to gun records

AP Photo by Mike Groll Gun rights advocates demonstrate outside the Capitol in Albany, N.Y. on Feb. 28. The group rallied against the recently legislated NY SAFE Act and other measures they say infringe on their constitutional right to bear arms.
www.rcfp.org www.rcfp.org


This is what many gun owners fear when it comes to registration.

Personally, I am not too worried about it. My guns are in safes, lock boxes, or on me, and I am the only one with access to them. Most of my neighbors know that I am a gun owner, and sure, one of them hates me because of it, but I really don't care. But I know others like their privacy and I respect that.

In regards to unpermitted sales, I agree. I think that there needs to be a structure regardless of where or when the sale is happening. In Michigan as an example, you can't just sell a pistol to anyone. You need to be an FFL or have a concealed carry license. Otherwise it needs to go through an FFL that does the background check. The downfall is there will always be people who will not follow the laws, no matter what they are. The other element is guns are not just stollen from legal owners. When I was taking my CPL class in MI, they showed a study that was done in Chicago that indicated that pistols are often sold illegally or stollen multiple times before a crime is committed with them, even if the first owner who bought it legally did report it stollen. The moral of the story was to get everyone in their class to store their firearms properly.
 
michaelskis said:
The other element is guns are not just stollen from legal owners. When I was taking my CPL class in MI, they showed a study that was done in Chicago that indicated that pistols are often sold illegally or stollen multiple times before a crime is committed with them, even if the first owner who bought it legally did report it stollen. The moral of the story was to get everyone in their class to store their firearms properly.
Click to expand...
Sorry, I always find that argument illogical. It basically says since guns are going to get stolen several times no matter what the legal gun owner does correctly then we shouldn't try to regulate guns sales because crime will happen anyway. I know it's not what you're saying, just an argument I don't like.
 
Shouldn't public taxes go to support madrassas teaching extremist Islamic studies? Or at least they should get a school voucher so funding can be taken away from all the students attending public schools?

1686139527874.png
 
DVD said:
Sorry, I always find that argument illogical. It basically says since guns are going to get stolen several times no matter what the legal gun owner does correctly then we shouldn't try to regulate guns sales because crime will happen anyway. I know it's not what you're saying, just an argument I don't like.
Click to expand...

I apologize, but can you expand on your comment that it is illogical. I 100% percent agree that security needs to start with the first, legal buyer as well businesses that sell them to prevent it moving further. But the reality of the situation is there is a substantial market on the street for the illegal sale of weapons in every major city in the US.
 
michaelskis said:
www.nbcbayarea.com

Personal Info on California Gun Owners Wrongly Made Public

The California Department of Justice says it wrongly made public the personal information of perhaps hundreds of thousands of gun owners in up to six state-operated databases.
www.nbcbayarea.com www.nbcbayarea.com

In wake of Journal News publishing gun permit holder maps, nation sees push to limit access to gun records

AP Photo by Mike Groll Gun rights advocates demonstrate outside the Capitol in Albany, N.Y. on Feb. 28. The group rallied against the recently legislated NY SAFE Act and other measures they say infringe on their constitutional right to bear arms.
www.rcfp.org www.rcfp.org


This is what many gun owners fear when it comes to registration.

Personally, I am not too worried about it. My guns are in safes, lock boxes, or on me, and I am the only one with access to them. Most of my neighbors know that I am a gun owner, and sure, one of them hates me because of it, but I really don't care. But I know others like their privacy and I respect that.

In regards to unpermitted sales, I agree. I think that there needs to be a structure regardless of where or when the sale is happening. In Michigan as an example, you can't just sell a pistol to anyone. You need to be an FFL or have a concealed carry license. Otherwise it needs to go through an FFL that does the background check. The downfall is there will always be people who will not follow the laws, no matter what they are. The other element is guns are not just stollen from legal owners. When I was taking my CPL class in MI, they showed a study that was done in Chicago that indicated that pistols are often sold illegally or stollen multiple times before a crime is committed with them, even if the first owner who bought it legally did report it stollen. The moral of the story was to get everyone in their class to store their firearms properly.
Click to expand...
All I am going to say is that the right to privacy in matters of gun ownership is a specious argument given the overlaps that exist in terms of reproductive care access, LGBTQ+ issues, immigration, etc.

NJ does not permit private sales of firearms between individuals without utilizing the services of an FFL.
 
Maister said:
Or at least they should get a school voucher so funding can be taken away from all the students attending public schools?
Click to expand...
That's the best part of the OK program. It's a statewide virtual charter school run by the Catholic Church. Plus parents get tax incentives to use it. I'm sure it will get modelled across the country.

I mean the church has a stellar reputation and there is absolutely no way abusive parents could use virtual school to isolate their kids from teachers who are one of the most important watchdogs for abuse and neglect. Plus they get a nice tax rebate at the end of the year.
 
bureaucrat#3 said:
That's the best part of the OK program. It's a statewide virtual charter school run by the Catholic Church. Plus parents get tax incentives to use it. I'm sure it will get modelled across the country.

I mean the church has a stellar reputation and there is absolutely no way abusive parents could use virtual school to isolate their kids from teachers who are one of the most important watchdogs for abuse and neglect. Plus they get a nice tax rebate at the end of the year.
Click to expand...
There is no way that deal is upheld. When you have the State Attorney General telling you it's unconstitutional you're on shaky ground to start. I wouldn't be too concerned about this one. And if somehow it is upheld, just try to open up an Islamic School and let the fun ensue.
 
MD Planner said:
There is no way that deal is upheld. When you have the State Attorney General telling you it's unconstitutional you're on shaky ground to start. I wouldn't be too concerned about this one. And if somehow it is upheld, just try to open up an Islamic School and let the fun ensue.
Click to expand...
I'm betting the Church of Satan comes in to make a point.
 
MD Planner said:
There is no way that deal is upheld. When you have the State Attorney General telling you it's unconstitutional you're on shaky ground to start. I wouldn't be too concerned about this one. And if somehow it is upheld, just try to open up an Islamic School and let the fun ensue.
Click to expand...

Isn't that sorta whats happening now with the book bans? Some snowflake mommas want to ban classic books in schools. I just read where someone in Utah(?) wants the Bible banned in schools because of some of the violent, sex and sordid stories.
 
If we're going to privatize education, I think we should follow the Simpsons route and go corporate with media tie ins. Who wouldn't want to send their kid to Hogwart's School of Magic and Education brought to you by Universal or Disney's Avenger Academies.
 
Back
Top