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NEVERENDING ♾️ The NEVERENDING Political Discussion Thread

Maister said:
Shouldn't public taxes go to support madrassas teaching extremist Islamic studies? Or at least they should get a school voucher so funding can be taken away from all the students attending public schools?

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The fact that people supporting these publicly funded church efforts in schools don't see the parallel is astonishing. The Oklahoma bill is pretty aggressive, but even the Texas bill that allows unlicensed chaplains to serve as school counselors is also pretty crazy. Oh, wait, these people believe in the true religion, whereas those in the middle east are wrong... Otherwise, the flag holding, gun carrying, and religious preaching appearance would be almost the same.
 
dw914er said:
The fact that people supporting these publicly funded church efforts in schools don't see the parallel is astonishing. The Oklahoma bill is pretty aggressive, but even the Texas bill that allows unlicensed chaplains to serve as school counselors is also pretty crazy. Oh, wait, these people believe in the true religion, whereas those in the middle east are wrong... Otherwise, the flag holding, gun carrying, and religious preaching appearance would be almost the same.
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Everyone likes this idea when it is their majority religion... then gets real uncomfortable when someone else decides to play. I'm going to pop some popcorn and wait for the collective freakout when a Madrassa seeks school vouchers or to place school counselors (not implying that these are bad schools--just pointing to them as the equivalent from a minority U.S. religion that often gets negative stereotypes from bigots).

See, for example, City Councils that decide they want to have a prayer before a meeting so they're favorite minister can proselytize, then get really upset when, say, the Satanists show up to give the invocation.
 
78rpm said:
Oklahoma school board approves what would be the 1st taxpayer-funded religious school in US
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I am a hard line separatist when it comes to publicly funding religious organizations and activities, including schools. I have an issue with charter schools too.

NY and NJ have large Orthodox Jewish communities that overwhelmingly send their children to private religious schools. The schools do receive some measure of public support state/federal mandated administrative tasks, special education placements, and in NJ transportation costs either through allowances or busing services. I would not be surprised if there will be efforts to get religious charter schools approved in either state.

East Ramapo, NY https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/nyclu-report-documents-21st-century-jim-crow-east-ramapo-schools-urges-state-action (NYCLU Report Documents “21st Century Jim Crow” in East Ramapo Schools, Urges State Action | American Civil Liberties Union)

Lakewood, NJ https://www.njspotlightnews.org/spe...wish-busing-special-education-costs-conflict/
 
So many thoughts. First and foremost, no governmental entity should fund religious schools, charter schools, or private schools.

The flip side of that is so many of the public schools are ineffective because they don't receive enough funding from the government. Furthermore, I think a lot more emphasis needs to be on the mental health of kids, especially in a post COVID world. More and more research has been coming out that kids were already having difficult times and COVID just made the situation so much worse. This hits home for me because my oldest has been having discipline issues since COVID and today we were informed that he now has in-house suspension for the rest of the week because he did something stupid. Last fall a friend of his took his own life at the school, and another friend of his was pulled out of school to be home schooled because of issues. I know when I was in school, it was a place where the education went bast the main subjects and there was a focus on being a good person, doing good things, and mental health (although they didn't call it that at the time). Today, none of that happens because they don't have the funding or support to do so.
 
kjel said:
I am a hard line separatist when it comes to publicly funding religious organizations and activities, including schools. I have an issue with charter schools too.

NY and NJ have large Orthodox Jewish communities that overwhelmingly send their children to private religious schools. The schools do receive some measure of public support state/federal mandated administrative tasks, special education placements, and in NJ transportation costs either through allowances or busing services. I would not be surprised if there will be efforts to get religious charter schools approved in either state.

East Ramapo, NY https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/nyclu-report-documents-21st-century-jim-crow-east-ramapo-schools-urges-state-action (NYCLU Report Documents “21st Century Jim Crow” in East Ramapo Schools, Urges State Action | American Civil Liberties Union)

Lakewood, NJ https://www.njspotlightnews.org/spe...wish-busing-special-education-costs-conflict/
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One of the biggest issues, is that many states have put in specific milestones or hard lines where students must meet criteria or the student or school face criteria. I do believe that we need to make sure schools are successful, but I also get the herculean efforts some educators put in to help students that don't have other support. In many cases, private and charter schools are exempted from requirements, can be selective in who they take, don't have hire qualified teachers or train them, and run without much oversight.

Alabama requires that all public high school students have a certain number credits in English, Math, Science, History/Civics/Geog, Health, and PE. There are lots of substitutions for career tech and other students. Then they have to take a GED like basic exam. Home school and church schools have a "variety of subjects" and 3 hours of instruction a day. No testing.

Tennessee required all 3rd graders this year to meet reading standards, go to summer school, meet other exemptions, or repeat. Statewide 60% failed. The best district only had a 70% pass rate. A bunch of parents are now talking about taking their kids out of public school for home school, private school, or charter because they don't have to test.
 
bureaucrat#3 said:
One of the biggest issues, is that many states have put in specific milestones or hard lines where students must meet criteria or the student or school face criteria. I do believe that we need to make sure schools are successful, but I also get the herculean efforts some educators put in to help students that don't have other support. In many cases, private and charter schools are exempted from requirements, can be selective in who they take, don't have hire qualified teachers or train them, and run without much oversight.

Alabama requires that all public high school students have a certain number credits in English, Math, Science, History/Civics/Geog, Health, and PE. There are lots of substitutions for career tech and other students. Then they have to take a GED like basic exam. Home school and church schools have a "variety of subjects" and 3 hours of instruction a day. No testing.

Tennessee required all 3rd graders this year to meet reading standards, go to summer school, meet other exemptions, or repeat. Statewide 60% failed. The best district only had a 70% pass rate. A bunch of parents are now talking about taking their kids out of public school for home school, private school, or charter because they don't have to test.
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Indiana tests private schools, same as public.
 
kjel said:
I am a hard line separatist when it comes to publicly funding religious organizations and activities, including schools. I have an issue with charter schools too.

NY and NJ have large Orthodox Jewish communities that overwhelmingly send their children to private religious schools. The schools do receive some measure of public support state/federal mandated administrative tasks, special education placements, and in NJ transportation costs either through allowances or busing services. I would not be surprised if there will be efforts to get religious charter schools approved in either state.

East Ramapo, NY https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/nyclu-report-documents-21st-century-jim-crow-east-ramapo-schools-urges-state-action (NYCLU Report Documents “21st Century Jim Crow” in East Ramapo Schools, Urges State Action | American Civil Liberties Union)

Lakewood, NJ https://www.njspotlightnews.org/spe...wish-busing-special-education-costs-conflict/
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Ugh.
 
bureaucrat#3 said:
One of the biggest issues, is that many states have put in specific milestones or hard lines where students must meet criteria or the student or school face criteria. I do believe that we need to make sure schools are successful, but I also get the herculean efforts some educators put in to help students that don't have other support. In many cases, private and charter schools are exempted from requirements, can be selective in who they take, don't have hire qualified teachers or train them, and run without much oversight.

Alabama requires that all public high school students have a certain number credits in English, Math, Science, History/Civics/Geog, Health, and PE. There are lots of substitutions for career tech and other students. Then they have to take a GED like basic exam. Home school and church schools have a "variety of subjects" and 3 hours of instruction a day. No testing.

Tennessee required all 3rd graders this year to meet reading standards, go to summer school, meet other exemptions, or repeat. Statewide 60% failed. The best district only had a 70% pass rate. A bunch of parents are now talking about taking their kids out of public school for home school, private school, or charter because they don't have to test.
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I wonder if they award points to low score students for demonstrations of obeisance, and award those students "step and fetch" certificates.
 
You might have heard of "moms for liberty", right wing nuts that attack school boards. Now they are attacking public libraries in our area with loudmouth ambushes of verbal abuse directed toward staff.

See pasted quote from librarian here...

"...Apparently there is a coordinated attack by people calling the library and yelling at staff, they're filming librarians, and demanding lists of "appropriate" books. They also don't like the gay pride book display..."

When I posted on the book of faces about SPLC listing the group as extremists and linked them to the library attack, the boss of the group flamed me and called me a liar. They are one of only two county chapters in a state with 159 counties.
 
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The deluge of mobs with extreme views attacking school boards has been insane. Our neighboring school district has had to cut several meetings short, and have police presence, because the outburst and attacks that are happening.
 
Did anyone see this coming? :heart:

1686283658026.png
 
Anyone heard any political news in the legal realm recently? Been kinda quiet.
 
fringe said:
You might have heard of "moms for liberty", right wing nuts that attack school boards. Now they are attacking public libraries in our area with loudmouth ambushes of verbal abuse directed toward staff.

See pasted quote from librarian here...

"...Apparently there is a coordinated attack by people calling the library and yelling at staff, they're filming librarians, and demanding lists of "appropriate" books. They also don't like the gay pride book display..."

When I posted on the book of faces about SPLC listing the group as extremists and linked them to the library attack, the boss of the group flamed me and called me a liar. They are one of only two county chapters in a state with 159 counties.
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The nearby moms group director said in her denial of coordinating a campaign, "...Do you really think that the only people upset about children being groomed at a public library in rural Georgia are going to be Moms for Liberty
members?..."
What might librarians be "grooming" children for? She seems to think the library is recruiting for LGBTQ membership of some kind. Would not define grooming to me.
 
fringe said:
You might have heard of "moms for liberty", right wing nuts that attack school boards. Now they are attacking public libraries in our area with loudmouth ambushes of verbal abuse directed toward staff.

See pasted quote from librarian here...

"...Apparently there is a coordinated attack by people calling the library and yelling at staff, they're filming librarians, and demanding lists of "appropriate" books. They also don't like the gay pride book display..."

When I posted on the book of faces about SPLC listing the group as extremists and linked them to the library attack, the boss of the group flamed me and called me a liar. They are one of only two county chapters in a state with 159 counties.
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I saw the group referred to as the Karen Klan.
 
Hink said:
The question will be does the far right boycott Cracker Barrel because they are trying to be inclusive?
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I think generally when that clash occurs, the boost from the inclusivity PR more than makes up for any boycott. In the case of Cracker Barrel I worry a bit because they really seem to cater to rural (white) people in general.

My friend laid down the best comment ever on the Cracker Barrel post:

"Man…pretty soon the ignorant aren’t going to have any place to eat!"
 
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Hink said:
The question will be does the far right boycott Cracker Barrel because they are trying to be inclusive?
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That is an interesting question. Given the cost to Bud Light and Anheuser Busch I really don't know.

www.forbes.com

Anheuser-Busch Faces ‘Permanent’ 15% Decline In Bud Light Sales—But Now May Be ‘Attractive’ Time To Buy Stock

Shares of the American beer giant are down 18% since Bud Light partnered with transgender influencer Dylan Mulvaney.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com


Personally, I don't eat at Cracker Barrel because they are overpriced and there isn't one near us, and I don't drink bud light because the beer sucks. Having said that, their marketing has zero influence on that decision. For other people, they are entitled to their opinion as well up to a point. Regardless if you agree with someone or not, I don't believe that any business should be anything other than welcoming to everyone, regardless of anything.
 
I just think if Trump had been given a participation medal at the end of his presidency, this might have all been avoided.
 
Man karma is a Bitch!
tRump signed this into law on Jan 19, 2018 making it a felony to remove classified docs. :rofl:

1686343830486.png
 
"...For years, the joke about Trump has been that he says the quiet part out loud. This time, it appears he did so in a way that could end up earning him jail time..."---Susan Glaser in New Yorker
 
michaelskis said:
I don't eat at Cracker Barrel because they are overpriced and there isn't one near us, and I don't drink bud light because the beer sucks. Having said that, their marketing has zero influence on that decision. For other people, they are entitled to their opinion as well up to a point. Regardless if you agree with someone or not, I don't believe that any business should be anything other than welcoming to everyone, regardless of anything.
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Agreed on all fronts. The messaging from those companies are fine with me, but they are still just products I do not use.

I did have to laugh at a clip of someone complaining that Chick Fil A hired a diversity director, where the clip alleges that Christian principles do not align with inclusion.
 
dw914er said:
I did have to laugh at a clip of someone complaining that Chick Fil A hired a diversity director, where the clip alleges that Christian principles do not align with inclusion.
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The Chick-Fil-A issue is first, not an issue, second, the position was hired a few years ago, and 3rd, any company that claims to be Christian should be welcoming to everyone. They don't have to agree with them, but should still be welcoming. Afterall, Jesus hung out with hookers and thieves.
 
michaelskis said:
The Chick-Fil-A issue is first, not an issue, second, the position was hired a few years ago, and 3rd, any company that claims to be Christian should be welcoming to everyone. They don't have to agree with them, but should still be welcoming. Afterall, Jesus hung out with hookers and thieves.
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I've often taken the position that any business that markets heavily on religion or similar virtue unrelated to the actual business (such as Jesus fish in logos) is often using it to disguise scamming or knows that their work quality isn't enough for that to be the marketing driver. For example, when I see a plumbing contractor with Jesus fish all over their logo on the truck, I cast a wary eye and closely examine the work.
 
Suburb Repairman said:
I've often taken the position that any business that markets heavily on religion or similar virtue unrelated to the actual business (such as Jesus fish in logos) is often using it to disguise scamming or knows that their work quality isn't enough for that to be the marketing driver. For example, when I see a plumbing contractor with Jesus fish all over their logo on the truck, I cast a wary eye and closely examine the work.
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Some of the most difficult customers I dealt with in the interstate moving business were preachers. They were also, hands down, the cheapest.
 
Suburb Repairman said:
cast a wary eye
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Carpenter: Hello, this is "JLJ Carpentry," how can I help you.

Potential customer on the phone: What does the "JLJ" stand for?

Carpenter: Just Like Jesus.

Potential customer on the phone: ...

Carpenter: Hello? You still there?

Potential customer on the phone: Ummm, just thought of a business opportunity. I have a friend interested in building a wine cellar, and I am wondering...
 
What do you think the odds are that Donald Trump will be found guilty and have any level of punishment?

Personally, I hope that he found guilty and does at least some time. However, it is my understanding that he could still run for president.
 
I think he'll be found guilty, but with Judge Cannon on the bench I'm not sure about the sentencing. Regardless, he'll file an appeal almost immediately.
 
michaelskis said:
What do you think the odds are that Donald Trump will be found guilty and have any level of punishment?

Personally, I hope that he found guilty and does at least some time. However, it is my understanding that he could still run for president.
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I think that all depends whether or not a trial actually gets held or not. If it's based on the case as set forth in the indictment, then I've never seen a more airtight case in my life. But Judge Aileen Cannon was selected as judge. She's a known quantity and has already made rulings that stood in clear opposition to what the law actually says. Her involvement opens the door for all sorts of shenanigans. She could screw up voire dire and allow flagrantly biased jurors, she could make a ruling to exclude evidence the defense claims is protected by attorney client privilege, she could delay proceedings such that the trial doesn't get scheduled until 2025...the opportunities for finding ways to throw the case to the guy that appointed her are endless.
 
Maister said:
the opportunities for finding ways to throw the case to the guy that appointed her are endless.
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It is interesting that Jack Smith didn't indict on charges of disseminating classified information. Might he be holding that (bad pun warning) trump card in the event Cannon decides to play games, and file in NJ where the offenses occurred (my old stomping grounds of Bedminster)?
 
michaelskis said:
What do you think the odds are that Donald Trump will be found guilty and have any level of punishment?

Personally, I hope that he found guilty and does at least some time. However, it is my understanding that he could still run for president.
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I think any jury that hears it through will spend no time returning guilty on every count.

He should get several years in public service, maybe in border soup kitchen.
 
Gedunker said:
It is interesting that Jack Smith didn't indict on charges of disseminating classified information. Might he be holding that (bad pun warning) trump card in the event Cannon decides to play games, and file in NJ where the offenses occurred (my old stomping grounds of Bedminster)?
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I suspect he's designed the prosecution's case around being as streamlined and simple as possible. The more charges and elements introduced, the more opportunities for objections, motions and other delaying tactics. He understands full well the clock is ticking on this.

Cannon could cause all sorts of mischief, but there's a possibility that she may simply recuse herself due to the appearance of bias, courtesy of the blistering rebuke she got from the very conservative 11th Circuit Court of Appeals on the Special Master issue months ago. It's also possible that Jack Smith could file a motion attempting to compel her recusal. It's also possible that Smith thinks the prosecutions case is so strong they're willing to try it in the most biased venue just to shut up any naysayers after a conviction from claiming the trial was in any way 'fixed'.
 
Maister said:
Cannon could cause all sorts of mischief but there's a possibility that she may simply recuse herself due to the appearance of bias, courtesy of the blistering rebuke she got from the very conservative 11th Circuit Court of Appeals on the Special Master issue months ago.
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I still think she'll stay on the bench for this.
It's also possible that Smith thinks the prosecutions case is so strong they're willing to try it in the most biased venue just to shut up any naysayers after a conviction from claiming the trial was in any way 'fixed'.
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They still will think its fixed. There's no way that the person duly appointed by God would do anything wrong, and it's clearly part of the liberal agenda.
 
dw914er said:
I still think she'll stay on the bench for this.


They still will think its fixed. There's no way that the person duly appointed by God would do anything wrong, and it's clearly part of the liberal agenda.
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I don't think the government will ask Judge Cannon to recuse, and she won't recuse voluntarily. I also think she knows she can't be as openly sympathetic to ex-Potus as she was last fall. I do think she'll try to peak out from under the blindfold whenever she thinks it safe to do so.

Our education system's abandonment of history and civics education in HS is coming back to bite us.
 
I am reading a book right now, and they mentioned an interesting and intriguing theory. The author said that Trump was able to in the Presidency because of a few factors including the distrust of Hillary Clinton. However one additional element was founded in his slogan. Make America Great Again. The concept and principals resonated with older generations who remember or were part of the greatest generation when things were perceived as simpler. It raised a nostalgic emotion among enough people to carry him to the White House.

What are your thoughts on this theory? Do you think that Trump's campaign team was able to tap into this bygone era of emotion?
 
Suburb Repairman said:
You're pretty new here, so I'm going to offer up a little advice.

While this doesn't cross lines (especially in the political "gloves off" thread), this response and continued grinding isn't going to win you many friends by slapping some very broad strokes geographically, including this mod in a southern state. Even if you're from the south, I'm just letting you know that you're coming off as smug and elitist, which is a common accusation from a southerner towards our coastal friends.

You know as well as anyone that the QOL variable itself varies greatly in what is measured, and the causes of the variability in some QOL measures similarly varies. I've seen examples that are like "OMG Texas is a hole" and examples that say "OMG Texas is the best." Florida is a handy one that is in headlines these days, and often ranks pretty high in traditional QOL measures (retirees have been moving there for decades for a reason), but the legislative climate now points towards QOL may be trending negative for some groups and in education measures. It also depends on whether you account for economic opportunity/mobility in your QOL measures--Florida typically does bad on those measures.
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LOL I was born, raised, and educated in Alabama. Just say you're a conservative and don't like hearing the truth (I've read this thread and its a flame war) and be done with it.
 
michaelskis said:
tap into this bygone era of emotion
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Have you been paying attention? I mean, what did you think of the American Carnage speech? What did you think of the rise of the White Nationalists? What did you think of the wall? I don’t know what book you are reading, but my sense by the way you wrote your post - apparently the book has a focus on the impact of HRC and MAGA - is that your book is assessing the Trump phenomenon superficially. I wish I knew what book you are reading so that I can recommended appropriate texts to you that would be more on-point.
 
Gedunker said:
I don't think the government will ask Judge Cannon to recuse, and she won't recuse voluntarily. I also think she knows she can't be as openly sympathetic to ex-Potus as she was last fall. I do think she'll try to peak out from under the blindfold whenever she thinks it safe to do so.
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Maister said:
It's also possible that Smith thinks the prosecutions case is so strong they're willing to try it in the most biased venue just to shut up any naysayers after a conviction from claiming the trial was in any way 'fixed'.
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I think this is exactly where Jack Smith's head is. Given the case profile and level of risk, the case is so strong against Trump that Smith doesn't really care about venue shopping. I personally think that's a smart move.
 
Wannaplan? said:
Have you been paying attention? I mean, what did you think of the American Carnage speech? What did you think of the rise of the White Nationalists? What did you think of the wall? I don’t know what book you are reading, but my sense by the way you wrote your post - apparently the book has a focus on the impact of HRC and MAGA - is that your book is assessing the Trump phenomenon superficially. I wish I knew what book you are reading so that I can recommended appropriate texts to you that would be more on-point.
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It was in the preface of "Leadership On the Line" I don't know the authors' political leanings, but it is for a class that I am taking this summer at the University North Carolina School of Government, which is not normally known as a bastion for right wing extremism.
 
In step with the effort to erase symbols of prior enslavement of citizenry is a GA movement to diminish the etched in stone memorial to the civil war near ATL.
I am told someone cleans that carving of southern generals on horseback, only completed in 1972, the year George Wallace won the Democratic primary here.
Some want the carving removed, but some say a very passive approach will help relegate those rebels to history's dustbins.
I sent the memorial board this message.


I am glad to see the photo of Stone Mountain on the website. It reminds me of a great idea put forward by my friend and neighbor DC of Carlton, GA.Dand her late husband Care responsible for considerable increase of the land area included in Watsons Mill State Park, like the most beautiful state park in the northeast GA piedmont. They also spearheaded development of that park's equestrian trails.Dena has written convincingly of a way for the State of Georgia to settle controversy over the Confederate memorial etched onto the stoneface of that big granite outcrop.They have proposed that the state stop its periodic cleansing of the memorial's face and allow the mountainside to heal itself. Natural plant forms will in time return that monolith to something close toits natural state, as well as save all costs of maintenance currentlyperformed.I think the idea deserves garden club endorsement and support.
 
michaelskis said:
it is for a class that I am taking this summer
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What I was getting at, is that your mention of a "bygone era of emotion" didn't ring true to me. What manifested around Trump has been manifest in our society for a long time, thus, his emergence as the Leader of the Free State normalized the expression of those unfortunate and repugnant Bygone Era Emotions. There was (and is) nothing "bygone" about it at all. Racism is pervasive across the entire U.S. political spectrum.
 
Jack Teixeira was indicted on 6 counts of espionage act violations. I wonder if this might be tactical - this guy (if found guilty) will be sentenced to X. Oh then tRump’s case shouldn’t really be that much different, so he should be sentenced to ????
 
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