Time for military target practice?
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February 10, 2023 - US shoots down "high-altitude object" over Alaska
US President Joe Biden ordered the military to down what the White House described as a "high-altitude object" hovering over Alaska on Friday. The president hailed the operation as a "success."www.cnn.com
From an article on a new ATF gun crime report
6 major takeaways from the ATF's first report in 20 years on U.S. gun crime
"A huge way those legally purchased firearms get into the hands of criminals is through theft, the ATF said. In five years, there were more than 1 million firearms stolen from private citizens and reported to authorities."
"Roughly 4.6 million children live in a home with loaded and unlocked firearms , studies have shown.
And over 80% of mass shooters at K-12 schools stole guns from family members, according to research funded by the National Institute of Justice (a program of the U.S. Justice Department) that examined mass shootings that took place from 1966 to 2019."
From the actual report:
"For the entire study period, the median TTC (time from purchase to crime) was 1,293 days or slightly more than three years, meaning that half of the traced crime guns were purchased within this time period.... As shown in Figure IFT-02, about 25% of traced crime guns were recovered within one year of their purchase."
The report basically makes it sound like we buy lots of guns and don't secure them. Then for the guns traced in this report over 25% were used within 1 year and 50% were used to commit a crime within 3 years. Maybe if we didn't produce as many guns the number of gun deaths would drop over time.
That's exactly where I was headed with mandatory insurance, minimum standards for gun storage, and owner responsibility for outcomes when the gun was secured by the person through carelessness. The 80% of guns were unsecured and loaded with children in the home really sums it up.Or make it take over a year to get the gun.
I also think we need to hold gun owners liable for anything that happens with a gun they bought. Kid gets ahold of it, you are liable for everything. Someone steals it and does a crime, you are liable.
We need to put the punishment on those who won't do the right thing, so that the next generation can stop seeing guns as a solution to our problems, instead of the creation of many of the problems in our society.
I would think the next logical step is that kids need to be able to open carry in schools. Who else will be able to protect students from a bad guy with a gun, but a pre-teen with a gun.& kids are allowed to carry evidently:
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Missouri Lawmakers Vote Against Banning Children From Carrying Guns In Public
A Democrat who sponsored the proposal said police asked for the change, adding that “we have 14-year-olds ... carrying AR-15s."www.huffpost.com
Makes me want to wear body armor instead of fleece.What is wrong with this math
today is the 45 day of the year so 45 X 24 hours in a day =
1,080 hrs divided by 67 mass shootings so far this year =
1 mass shooting every 16 hours ?
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Gun Violence Archive
www.gunviolencearchive.org
What is wrong with this math
today is the 45 day of the year so 45 X 24 hours in a day =
1,080 hrs divided by 67 mass shootings so far this year =
1 mass shooting every 16 hours ?
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Gun Violence Archive
www.gunviolencearchive.org
Cue up thoughts and prayers once again. This time in my back yard.
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MSU shooting victims all from metro Detroit; had big dreams, families say
Authorities don't know yet why Anthony McRae, 43, the shooting suspect, who is dead, went to the Michigan State University campus.www.freep.com
For those who are unaware of the regulations in Michigan when it comes to handgun purchases
I waited until all the politicians started calling for increased gun regulations.The day after a mass shooting Michigan, someone makes a post... to provide awareness about regulations when making a hand gun purchase? Too soon, man, too soon.
If MI didn't do anything after Oxford High School...nothing will be done in MI.
Look at IL right now. They're trying, but even the purely representative democracy process is not frictionless.
I predict within the next 1-2 years the SCOTUS will enshrine (with case law) gun ownership as any absolute right.
But...thankfully SCOTUS is not bound by precedent anymore (Dobbs), so we just turn all our national politics into a fight over SCOTUS appointments. Full stop.
You seem frustrated that I ask questions. But I ask questions because I know I don't have all the answers. I apologize if you feel I have attacked your answers in anyway. I asked further questions to better understand the deeper reasoning behind your responses.
For regulations, my suggestions, which are to start a conversation but I realize they don't fix all the problems, are as follows:
However, the most important is going back to culture. We live in a culture of anger and violence and we are progressively removing and restricting avenues to address these issues. Quality youth programs are no longer getting funded, more and more households are single parent households, and there is a progressive decline of father figures in the lives of kids. This goes beyond just the kids having a male figure in the house, but one that is actually involved with their kids lives in a positive way.
- Increased funding and support for mental health issues, especially in schools.
- Consistent background check system on a national level for the purchase of all firearms. This background check may be simplified if a person has a canceled carry permit that already requires a more in-depth background check.
- A "go/no-go red flag mental notice on these background checks that puts a hold on the purchase of any firearm if there is a history of concern of mental health and may only be included or removed by a license medical professional... not law enforcement.
- An instant connection to law enforcement data bases to include a legal go/no-go red flag legal notice for things such as restraining orders, domestic violence calls, or other pattern of documented violence.
- A requirement that all pistols include a case and a lock as part of sale. Some states already require this, but this should be a national standard.
- A requirement that gun dealers (including gun shows) go through an detailed explanation on how to properly store and secure firearms for the sale of any weapon (may be waived for concealed carry holders)
I think in times like this, some people are quick to say that Americans have a gun fetish. Yea, we one more guns per capita than any other country on the planet. But the deeper question is why do we have a violence issue? Why do these children feel that they need to post crap like this on social media? Why do kids feel like they need to take action to inflict harm on someone at school in the first place? Why do adults feel this way as well. It is easy to blame the tool, but the more important question that we should be asking ourselves is why do they need this tool in the first place?
I can agree that mental health is always part of the issue, but I have two problems with it.
1. It's a red herring from politicians who don't want us looking at gun regulation or don't want to do anything meaningful about gun regulation.
2. By the time you realize there is a mental health issue the gun has already gone off.
We've talked about reasonable regulation ranging from insurance and registration to banning guns. It's all a good start if we can get a politician to do something, anything.
We can talk mental health, but until we reform the health care system that people can get the help they need then nothing is getting done there either. All the politicians throwing out the mental health herring are doing nothing to reform health care. So it's just another dead end for me even if it is a potential solution.
I waited until all the politicians started calling for increased gun regulations.
Let me know when you contact their offices to say "Too Soon".
I am sorry you feel that way. I just believe that we need to be having real conversations about realistic and practical things that will actually made a difference rather than just reciting party lines.That's messed up.
I think that's an incorrect take. Mental health is absolutely not a red herring in my opinion. Yeah, guns seem to be the primary weapon of choice but holy shit, there are a lot of angry and unbalanced people in this country. Doing something about THAT would go a long way as well. There's no silver bullet, there are just ingredients in the recipe to hopefully get us to a place where so many people don't get to the point where they want to harm a lot of people at a school, shopping center, concert, etc.1. It's a red herring from politicians who don't want us looking at gun regulation or don't want to do anything meaningful about gun regulation.
I am not going to debate the content of your opinion. What I will ask is do you truly believe that this will occur anytime soon?I am of the opinion the Second Amendment should be repealed and the US should heavily regulate the use and keeping of privately owned firearms, as pretty much all other responsible democracies do. I am reasonably confident that even in the absence of a militia, we'll still be able to repel any invader that might care to attack.
It's certainly not impossible. Ultimately a matter of educating the public. We need to understand the benefits vs the harms. What do citizens gain by having large quantities of readily available firearms? Improved personal safety? We have more privately owned firearms than any country on earth. The briefest glance at the number of gun crimes committed in this country should convince folks that's NOT the case.I am not going to debate the content of your opinion. What I will ask is do you truly believe that this will occur anytime soon?
If not, what suggestions do you have that have the potential for bipartisan support?
I just believe that we need to be having real conversations...
I am not going to debate the content of your opinion. What I will ask is do you truly believe that this will occur anytime soon?
If not, what suggestions do you have that have the potential for bipartisan support?
So it is disingenuous to say we can only do what can we can get bipartisan support for now, and that anything else is too hard. Stop looking short term and start looking over the horizon.
I think Maister's proposal has about as much likelihood of being addressed as comprehensive mental health that could affect an unemployed, middle-aged, single-male. We need to address mental health, but we're not. We don't provide shelter or food for that segment of the population. Mental health only comes up as something we should look at when the other side says we should address firearms. Do you think there is any true support for comprehensive mental health and the ability to tie gun ownership to it?I am not going to debate the content of your opinion. What I will ask is do you truly believe that this will occur anytime soon?
If not, what suggestions do you have that have the potential for bipartisan support?
I highly doubt it will happen soon, but nonetheless it's critical we pursue this goal and ultimately achieve it at some point in the future. The key is to think/aim long term. Failure to do so means we allow things to get progressively worse over time. At some point in the future, Americans will suffer enough loss that they'll begin to understand what's at stake.What I will ask is do you truly believe that this will occur anytime soon?
I highly doubt it will happen soon, but nonetheless it's critical we pursue this goal and ultimately achieve it at some point in the future. The key is to think/aim long term. Failure to do so means we allow things to get progressively worse over time. At some point in the future, Americans will suffer enough loss that they'll begin to understand what's at stake.
That very thing ought to increase the urgency, no? It took 50 years (and way, way, way more deaths) for seatbelts to become the norm.What about all the deaths of people between now and then? If we put other measures in place, some of those lives could be saved. What do you tell their families at the funeral? “Sorry, I was too focused on repealing the 2nd amendment to push for increased background checks, mental health funding, or regulations regarding properly storage of weapons.”? How do you think those family members would take that as they stand over a the coffin of their loved one?
Sure, stopgap measures like background checks, increases in mental health funding, or regulations about storing weapons might prevent some deaths until such time as a real solution comes along - by all means such options should be pursued until an effective remedy can be implemented.What about all the deaths of people between now and then? If we put other measures in place, some of those lives could be saved. What do you tell their families at the funeral? “Sorry, I was too focused on repealing the 2nd amendment to push for increased background checks, mental health funding, or regulations regarding properly storage of weapons.”? How do you think those family members would take that as they stand over a the coffin of their loved one?
I agree. If we had a health system that recognized mental health as an issue and made it easy and affordable for people to get access to help it would take care of a lot of problems. I'm just saying that some politicians like to use it as a red herring to distract from other reasonable gun laws that they don't want to talk about. We need both, we're not even getting a decent conversation on either. We're too busy talking about immigration or other problems that I feel are a lesser priority.I think that's an incorrect take. Mental health is absolutely not a red herring in my opinion. Yeah, guns seem to be the primary weapon of choice but holy shit, there are a lot of angry and unbalanced people in this country. Doing something about THAT would go a long way as well. There's no silver bullet, there are just ingredients in the recipe to hopefully get us to a place where so many people don't get to the point where they want to harm a lot of people at a school, shopping center, concert, etc.
It's not about mental health in this latest shooting, or the Gendron killer in Buffalo, or that piece of shit that shot up Oxford. It's pure EVIL plain and simple.I
The point of my post was that we continue to do nothing about mental health services in this county and then wonder why these things continue to happen.
New Yorker mag has a story either current or last week or two about just such a study by an epidemiologist that works for NIH I think. There are and have been a number of pilot programs operating in urban settings where gun violence is concentrated. So far their success is mixed at best and their methods are evolving.Is the CDC allowed to do research on gun deaths yet?
Except that your glib and tone deaf response about how to go about purchasing hand guns in Michigan - just after a mass shooting - reveals how disingenuous you really are.
It's not about mental health in this latest shooting, or the Gendron killer in Buffalo, or that piece of shit that shot up Oxford. It's pure EVIL plain and simple.
I am not interested in hearing about the background of any of these killers. I don't want to hear their "sob stories" I just want to hear about the victims and hope that their families will never stop in their efforts to have their loved ones remembered forever.
As for killers like Gendron, since the death penalty is off the table, my only hope is that they get shanked in prison.
Yes but not NIH!Answering my own question- the CDC was effectively blocked from doing gun violence research (by the NRA and their political allies) until about 2018. https://www.npr.org/2018/04/05/599773911/how-the-nra-worked-to-stifle-gun-violence-research