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NEVERENDING ♾️ The NEVERENDING Political Discussion Thread

fringe said:
I give him full credit for his efforts.
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I don't disagree with your sentiment. What I find galling about Kinzinger is his inability to see what he could do above and beyond his role on the January 6 Commitee. I think there is a potential valid argument about the inappropriateness (and the optics) of calling out the members of Congress that are tight-lipped about their true feelings. Yet seeing his inspiring performance on Morning Joe yesterday being undermined by his own words is so deflating. Is he even going about this the right way?
 
Hink said:
Florida paid $12m for the immigrant stunt. How anyone looks at that as a conservative and thinks, "Yea, DeSantis is really showing them how it's done!" is a hypocrite. That is a massive waste of taxpayer money, if your black heart doesn't see the other side of how wrong that is to do to human beings.
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I am not saying I agree with the move. In fact completely agree with you. My comment is the response from the locations that are receiving the immigrants. They were super public to say they were sanitary cities until the illegal immigrants showed up. It was a heartless move by the GOP but a hypocritical response by the receiving cities.
 
michaelskis said:
I am not saying I agree with the move. In fact completely agree with you. My comment is the response from the locations that are receiving the immigrants. They were super public to say they were sanitary cities until the illegal immigrants showed up. It was a heartless move by the GOP but a hypocritical response by the receiving cities.
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Who isn't receiving the immigrants? Martha's Vineyard has been amazing, from what I have read. They found shelter and food for the 47 families in a day.

I think the PR for the normal person seeing this stunt is that the GOP, particularly those like DeSantis and Abbott, who do not actually care about anyone, but their political aspirations, makes the GOP look bad. Sure it likely makes the base hot, like "BUILD THE WALL!", but it is exactly the same in that it isn't a solution to a problem, it is political theater that is intended to convince the less intelligent that he is doing something, even though he isn't.

I think it should be a budgetary issue for conservatives. We are in lots of debt, and you are cool budgeting $12m to play stunts? Explain to me how that served the residents of Florida? Especially when it is my understanding those immigrants were from Texas...

I think if immigrants got to these "liberal bastions" like Fox News likes to call them, you would find wider arms and financial resources made available to support them than you see on the southern border.

As MD noted previously though, none of this fixes a problem that everyone agrees exists, it just plays more games.
 
It's just playing games with people. Very sad that these clowns are just "owning the libs" than actually doing anything about it. $12 million would go a long way in other ways.


Colbert said last night that if you want to stop immigrants from coming, don't send them to one of the nicest places in America.
 
Hink said:
Who isn't receiving the immigrants? Martha's Vineyard has been amazing, from what I have read. They found shelter and food for the 47 families in a day.

I think the PR for the normal person seeing this stunt is that the GOP, particularly those like DeSantis and Abbott, who do not actually care about anyone, but their political aspirations, makes the GOP look bad. Sure it likely makes the base hot, like "BUILD THE WALL!", but it is exactly the same in that it isn't a solution to a problem, it is political theater that is intended to convince the less intelligent that he is doing something, even though he isn't.

I think it should be a budgetary issue for conservatives. We are in lots of debt, and you are cool budgeting $12m to play stunts? Explain to me how that served the residents of Florida? Especially when it is my understanding those immigrants were from Texas...

I think if immigrants got to these "liberal bastions" like Fox News likes to call them, you would find wider arms and financial resources made available to support them than you see on the southern border.

As MD noted previously though, none of this fixes a problem that everyone agrees exists, it just plays more games.
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I don't think that you read my last post, so I am going to say it again. I agree with you in regards to what the GOP did. Yes, I AGREE with you. So I don't know why you keep bringing that up.

I agree that the mayors of these Cities were right to call out the Gov of TX and FL, but in Chicago, DC, and Washington, all three have been trying to figure out how to send these migrants back. But then the Mayor of Chicago essentially did the same thing by sending them to Elk Grove.
https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/as-90-migrants-are-set-to-arrive-in-elk-grove-village-suburban-mayor-said-situation-was-handled-in-a-haphazard-way/2936326/ (90 Migrants Are Set to Arrive in Elk Grove Village; Suburban Mayor Said Situation Was Handled in a 'Haphazard Way') New York as violated their own local "right-to-shelter" laws in the past couple weeks. But in all three cases, those being transported indicated that they wanted to go and signed consent forms in multiple languages. Marth's Vineyard is a bit of a different situation and I applaud the church for taking them in. Although it sounds like they didn't want to go there and many had never heard of it.
www.politico.com

GOP governors put focus on migrants with Martha's Vineyard transport

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis flew dozens of migrants to the island as Texas’ governor sent two buses to Washington.
www.politico.com www.politico.com


It will be interesting to see if these cities will subscribe to their sanctuary city policies and continue to help these people or displace them further.
 
It shouldn't be hard to keep the sanctuary city polices. It doesn't say they will help and set up places for all the immigrants. It says cops won't ask for papers and they won't automatically deport you. I'm paraphrasing, but you get the idea. Granted the whole sanctuary city thing to me is just a political move, but it's better than busing your problem somewhere else. It's not like LA buses all their homeless back to Ohio because they failed at making it big.
 
DVD said:
It shouldn't be hard to keep the sanctuary city polices. It doesn't say they will help and set up places for all the immigrants. It says cops won't ask for papers and they won't automatically deport you. I'm paraphrasing, but you get the idea. Granted the whole sanctuary city thing to me is just a political move, but it's better than busing your problem somewhere else. It's not like LA buses all their homeless back to Ohio because they failed at making it big.
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Whoa! Anyone who leaves Ohio does it because they hate the uneven policies of our one-sided state legislature, not because that Wendy's commercial didn't lead to the success that I was promised by my agent.....
 
Interesting that this is happening in Texas. Basically a civil war within the Republican Party:

Mike Collier is running against Republican incumbent Dan Patrick, a hard right trumpist. In Texas, the Lt. Gov. actually wields some powers the Gov. doesn't.

Judge Whitley also butted heads with Gov. Greg Abbott about lockdowns during Covid, asserting that the county judge has ultimate jurisdiction in county and could not be overruled by gubernatorial fiat.
 
Current world news meets Monty Python


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I've been dealing with Covid this week so I didn't catch this aspect of the immigration story: DeSantis, the Florida governor, shipped immigrants from Texas to Martha's Vineyard. It turns out this is probably misspending of state funds as the resolution which funded the junket authorized spending "facilitate the transport of authorized aliens from this state," With "this state" meaning Florida.

Meanwhile, my right leaning cousins are all stirred up about it and don't see they're being manipulated by these stunts. They say the solution is to close the border but we saw US crops rotting in the fields when that happened during the pandemic.
 
I feel like Trump rally's are getting more and more odd. This last one included some odd hand gestures. It was held during the Ohio State game, in Ohio. It was poorly attended. His speeches are just negative anymore, without much upside. I mean he went after the cleanliness of our airports in Ohio? He plays odd music and is really working to get the Qanon people to like him.

What is the general upside to electing him? I mean say what you will about DeSantis or Abbott (and there is lots to say), but at least they understand the fundamental place government holds in society.

I just don't understand his electability at this point in time.... and yet - https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2024/president/oh/ohio_trump_vs_biden-7853.html

Trump +10 points on Biden in Ohio...

Maybe that is just fill in the blank republican, but it is still scary that we care so much about party and not people.
 
Hink said:
I feel like Trump rally's are getting more and more odd. This last one included some odd hand gestures. It was held during the Ohio State game, in Ohio. It was poorly attended. His speeches are just negative anymore, without much upside. I mean he went after the cleanliness of our airports in Ohio? He plays odd music and is really working to get the Qanon people to like him.

What is the general upside to electing him? I mean say what you will about DeSantis or Abbott (and there is lots to say), but at least they understand the fundamental place government holds in society.

I just don't understand his electability at this point in time.... and yet - https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2024/president/oh/ohio_trump_vs_biden-7853.html

Trump +10 points on Biden in Ohio...

Maybe that is just fill in the blank republican, but it is still scary that we care so much about party and not people.
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I don't get it either. I just pray that the Democrats find someone better than Biden to go against him or that the republicans wake up and nominate someone other than Trump.

Apparently he was all worked up that he did not get an invite to the queen's funeral. Well, only the Biden's were and you don't here of any of the other former president's fussing about it. He should be happy they invited him to the memorial service in DC.

Wife and I were also talking about the contrast between Trump and Obama. I didn't agree with Obama's politics, but I have no question in my mind that Obama is a person of character, whereas Trump is not. We cannot comprehend why people still support him. Is it because they are so against the system that they will support anyone else that steps forward?
 
Hink said:
I feel like Trump rally's are getting more and more odd. This last one included some odd hand gestures. It was held during the Ohio State game, in Ohio. It was poorly attended. His speeches are just negative anymore, without much upside. I mean he went after the cleanliness of our airports in Ohio? He plays odd music and is really working to get the Qanon people to like him.

What is the general upside to electing him? I mean say what you will about DeSantis or Abbott (and there is lots to say), but at least they understand the fundamental place government holds in society.

I just don't understand his electability at this point in time.... and yet - https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2024/president/oh/ohio_trump_vs_biden-7853.html

Trump +10 points on Biden in Ohio...

Maybe that is just fill in the blank republican, but it is still scary that we care so much about party and not people.
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There are a lot of municipal planning jobs and hospital systems in my Metro.

Just sayin'.

;) :cool: :scotch:
 
DVD said:
It doesn't say they will help and set up places for all the immigrants. It says cops won't ask for papers and they won't automatically deport you. I'm paraphrasing, but you get the idea.
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I have no idea why this concept was contentious and a party line issue. People that need police assistance should be able to get that assistance without the possibility of harassment and investigation of their immigration status.
 
dw914er said:
I have no idea why this concept was contentious and a party line issue. People that need police assistance should be able to get that assistance without the possibility of harassment and investigation of their immigration status.
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It was/is a mess here in Phoenix. We had a Sheriff that would do random immigration raids on factories and start demanding everyone's papers and most city police didn't care about immigration status unless an actual crime was committed. So immigrants had absolutely no trust for police and didn't really trust hospitals or any other institution for that matter. The sheriff did get busted by the courts for violating rights and I'm sure that helped get him out of office, but people still love the ass.
 
To shift gears, how much do you think King Charles III of England will have on global politics? I always got the impression that the Queen didn't really get involved and just let the PM and Parament handle it. Do you think he will have more of an active role?
 
michaelskis said:
To shift gears, how much do you think King Charles III of England will have on global politics? I always got the impression that the Queen didn't really get involved and just let the PM and Parament handle it. Do you think he will have more of an active role?
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Tell me your country is not a constitutional monarchy without telling me your country is not a constitutional monarchy ;-)

The King won't get involved (other than sticking his foot in his mouth) because he can't get involved...that power rests with Parliament (the UK fought a civil war about it and all).
 
michaelskis said:
To shift gears, how much do you think King Charles III of England will have on global politics? I always got the impression that the Queen didn't really get involved and just let the PM and Parament handle it. Do you think he will have more of an active role?
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Very little. I told my husband the other day that if he really wanted to make his mark he should put himself front and center on climate change issues.

He's not stupid, but he's not his mother.
 
When DeSatan sent a couple planeloads of migrants from Texas to Martha's Vineyard, it was history repeating itself. It'll be a failure again too.
www.politico.com

A Lesson From the Past for Ron DeSantis

In the 1960s, Southern organizations tried sending African Americans to Northern states in a “cheap” PR stunt designed to embarrass and expose Northern liberals. It didn’t work.
www.politico.com www.politico.com

Plus the $12 million Floridian taxpayers dollars to pull the stunt is outlandish as well as fiscally & morally wrong.
 
Tranplanner said:
Tell me your country is not a constitutional monarchy without telling me your country is not a constitutional monarchy ;-)

The King won't get involved (other than sticking his foot in his mouth) because he can't get involved...that power rests with Parliament (the UK fought a civil war about it and all).
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They do have the ability to dismiss the PM.. which while super unlikely holds quite a bit of power if it is in the wrong hands.
 
Michigan Republican gubernatorial candidate Tudor Dixon "...offered to send a journalist pornography. This was not on my 2022 BINGO card."

 
michaelskis said:
To shift gears, how much do you think King Charles III of England will have on global politics? I always got the impression that the Queen didn't really get involved and just let the PM and Parament handle it. Do you think he will have more of an active role?
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No.
 
The DISCLOSE act seems pretty reasonable. I am so confused as to why we cannot get bi-partisan support for legislation that makes our government more transparent and fair. How does the general public not REQUIRE this of our federal representatives when they are so worried about it at the local level?

I mean how does this happen? I would imagine most people don't think that their political donations should go to legal funds for a non-candidate (at least yet)? I mean maybe they do...

From Yahoo! Article: "Trump’s legal bills are being footed by his donors"
As he faces a major new lawsuit from the New York attorney general that could shut down his business, former President Donald Trump will have one advantage that is unavailable to most well-healed defendants: He won’t have to pay for much, if any, of his legal defense.

The reason: His political donors are doing it for him.

Recent filings by Save America, Trump’s political action committee, show the group has shelled out $1,128,020 this year to lawyers who have spearheaded his and his family’s defense in their legal battle with New York Attorney General Letitia James.

These include $942,277 to the law firm of Alina Habba, the New Jersey-based lawyer who has been Trump’s lead lawyer in the case. The total includes $207,827 paid just last month. In addition, Alan Futerfas, another longtime Trump lawyer who is representing the former president’s children in the case, received $184,743 from Save America in July.
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Money is politics is the primary force in why our country is so screwed up. Taking money out of politics, or making the money that is in politics REALLY open, would help a lot. If you are taking lots of gas and oil money, everyone should know that. You taking that solar money? We should know that, too. I don't care which side of the aisle you are on, if you are making federal policy, you should have no secrecy as to how you make or take money personally, or via your campaign.
 
We have been trying to get something like this passed in Arizona for like the past 4 years. All it takes is so many signatures and it goes on the ballot. Each type the GOP sues and invalidates the signatures in some way. Then they make it hard to get things on the ballot by citizen referendum.
 
So tRump said he could declassify documents by merely thinking about it. That's pretty cool. Can I have the mayor approve a development proposal by thinking about it? That would make council meetings so much shorter without those citizens mucking it up, whining and ranting.

 
And yet... you look at how Trump polls with R's... not even close.

TrumpDeSantisPenceCruzHaleyCheneyPompeoRubioScottChristie
RCP Average6/28 - 9/1851.623.07.83.33.23.01.21.01.01.0Trump +28.6
Politico/Morning Consult9/16 - 9/18521982231111Trump +33
Harvard-Harris9/7 - 9/85917912--111--Trump +42
USA Today/Suffolk7/22 - 7/2543347--331----1Trump +9
NY Times/Siena7/5 - 7/74925676--2------Trump +24
Emerson6/28 - 6/2955209--3--1------Trump +3

 
Hink said:
And yet... you look at how Trump polls with R's... not even close.

TrumpDeSantisPenceCruzHaleyCheneyPompeoRubioScottChristie
RCP Average6/28 - 9/1851.623.07.83.33.23.01.21.01.01.0Trump +28.6
Politico/Morning Consult9/16 - 9/18521982231111Trump +33
Harvard-Harris9/7 - 9/85917912--111--Trump +42
USA Today/Suffolk7/22 - 7/2543347--331----1Trump +9
NY Times/Siena7/5 - 7/74925676--2------Trump +24
Emerson6/28 - 6/2955209--3--1------Trump +3

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That is tribalism and cult of personality in excel form.

ugh.
 
mendelman said:
That is tribalism and cult of personality in excel form.

ugh.
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I think it's nihilism, fascism, or vindictive anarchy. Things have changed too much for some people and they either want a reset or they want to tear it all down. It doesn't matter what the founder's intended, doesn't matter what your morals or religion tell say. It's all about giving a big middle finger to those "in-charge", the most pain to those you don't like, and that's what Trump and the maga's do.
 
bureaucrat#3 said:
I think it's nihilism, fascism, or vindictive anarchy. Things have changed too much for some people and they either want a reset or they want to tear it all down. It doesn't matter what the founder's intended, doesn't matter what your morals or religion tell say. It's all about giving a big middle finger to those "in-charge", the most pain to those you don't like, and that's what Trump and the maga's do.
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It's all that too.
 
Hink said:
The DISCLOSE act seems pretty reasonable. I am so confused as to why we cannot get bi-partisan support for legislation that makes our government more transparent and fair. How does the general public not REQUIRE this of our federal representatives when they are so worried about it at the local level?

I mean how does this happen? I would imagine most people don't think that their political donations should go to legal funds for a non-candidate (at least yet)? I mean maybe they do...

From Yahoo! Article: "Trump’s legal bills are being footed by his donors"


Money is politics is the primary force in why our country is so screwed up. Taking money out of politics, or making the money that is in politics REALLY open, would help a lot. If you are taking lots of gas and oil money, everyone should know that. You taking that solar money? We should know that, too. I don't care which side of the aisle you are on, if you are making federal policy, you should have no secrecy as to how you make or take money personally, or via your campaign.
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Former President Donald Trump’s Save America leadership PAC remains flush with cash as the defacto leader of the Republican Party withholds donations to GOP candidates but has spent heavily on legal bills and personal expenses, including paying Melania Trump’s fashion designer $18,000 last month.

This is not the first time Trump’s PAC reported paying Pierre large sums of money. In early August USA Today reported the PAC paid Pierre $60,000 in four installments between April 7 and June 24, also for “strategy consulting.” The newspaper noted that the Federal Elections Commission “does not allow candidate committees, which are formed to raise money for a specific candidate, to spend money on personal items, including clothing.”

Pierre addressed the payments in a statement to Women’s Wear Daily in August, saying, “As with every other first lady, there is an after the White House life, which involves many other aspects than fashion. I am lucky to have worked in prestigious houses, to have designed [costumes] for ballets, and more recently to work in home decor. There are many upcoming projects in this after-the-White House [stage.]”
 
I'm not sure where it was, but Ted Cruz saying that Biden's recent speech calling a portion of the country semi-fascists was like nothing he has ever heard before from a President, and then the audience audibly laughing at him, was enjoyable.

Short term memories our elected officials have...
 
mendelman said:
epic
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Remember, these MAGA-hats have a spiritual yearning for the end times, and the more Trump talks like a deity, the more believable he becomes.

Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. (Revelation)
 
mendelman said:
EDIT: found it. :omg:
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I saw that piece on 60 Minutes last night. Some thoughts:

1. Promoting Denver's book got in the way of some necessary reporting.
2. This third of the show could have easily been two hours long, it's that important, IMHO.
3. A better piece would have included facets of Phil Waldron's role and the status of Fake Electors investigations in the various states.
4. A focus on texts from Don Junior seems to have an inoculating effect on investigative efforts to ask more serious questions to the important figures in the January 6 insurrection plot. The public is thirsty for the hard stuff, not the Kool Aid this major media company doles out to quash anticipated concern from advertisers. Hopefully last night's piece was just a teaser for harder stuff later this fall.
 
Hink said:
And yet... you look at how Trump polls with R's... not even close.
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Then the democrats might want to find a good candidate. Because if it is Biden, we might want to prepare our selves for Trump's second term.

I will not vote for either of them, but I know more and more people who are fed up with Biden.
 
I'm less fed up with Biden than the alternative. Right now I blame obstructionist crazy right wing people for most of what is going wrong. Don't like the proposal Biden is putting out. Instead of trying to bash and kill it like a cave man experiencing fire for the first time, maybe propose something better?
 
michaelskis said:
Then the democrats might want to find a good candidate. Because if it is Biden, we might want to prepare our selves for Trump's second term.

I will not vote for either of them, but I know more and more people who are fed up with Biden.
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I understand where you're coming from, but given the system we have is it wise to go third party voting...or god forbid...not vote at all?

Unfortunately, some of us may have a 'lesser of two evils' scenario staring some of us in the face (not me though as I firmly believe Biden has done/been much better than Trump or his ilk).
 
mendelman said:
I understand where you're coming from, but given the system we have is it wise to go third party voting...or god forbid...not vote at all?

Unfortunately, some of us may have a 'lesser of two evils' scenario staring some of us in the face (not me though as I firmly believe Biden has done/been much better than Trump or his ilk).
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As long as we accept the lesser of two evils, that is all we will ever have to chose from.
 
Biden isn't great, but he is light years better than Trump. Although, it seems that we won't see Trump get what he likely deserves, he won't run again. It will be DeSantis v. Biden, or DeSantis v. Newsom (even though he is still denying he will run).

I see no R candidate but DeSantis actually making it to the top of their heap. It will be fun to watch him attack Trump once Trump stops being a kingmaker. They are already doing it behind closed doors, but when it starts publicly, it will be very fun to watch.

The D's also do not have a strong stable, but Newsom is looking more and more like he has a good shot. Harris is terrible and should not run. I have always loved Pete, but he may be too "Paul Ryan".
 
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