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NEVERENDING ♾️ The NEVERENDING Political Discussion Thread

Planit said:
I still can’t believe he is letting Qatar build a military base in Idaho. I’ve been to the AF base there & they’ve had a joint training facility there for several years, but no permanent/fixed base for any country.
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Actually this is not uncommon. Examples of foreign air force training sites in the U.S.:
  • Sheppard Air Force Base, Texas: Hosts the Euro-NATO Joint Jet Training (ENJJPT) program, a multinational NATO undergraduate pilot training program where pilots from various member nations train together.
  • Mountain Home Air Force Base, Idaho: Hosts the Singaporean Air Force's 428th Fighter Squadron for F-15SG pilot training and will host a new facility for Qatari F-15 pilots.
  • Luke Air Force Base, Arizona: An international foreign military sales F-35 pilot training center is located here, with personnel from allies including Poland, Finland, Singapore, and Germany.
  • Edwards Air Force Base, California: The United Kingdom's XVII Test and Evaluation Squadron is based here.
  • Ebbing Air National Guard Base, Arkansas: Will soon be home to a new facility for F-35 training, moving from Luke AFB.
It makes sense that if we're selling aircraft to other countries, that we train their pilots. That's basically all that's happening here. I don't think that the Qatari presence is substantively different from any of these other examples. It just snuck into the news cycle. It was noteworthy in that the announcement came from the Trump administration, but the concern that was raised was by Trump allies.
 
Couldn't help but think of Lio's lecture to fascist Imperial Security officers in Star Wars: Andor when seeing social media posts this weekend from the No Kings protesters (meme by me).

andor_meme_00a.jpg
 
Doohickie said:
Actually this is not uncommon. Examples of foreign air force training sites in the U.S.:
  • Sheppard Air Force Base, Texas: Hosts the Euro-NATO Joint Jet Training (ENJJPT) program, a multinational NATO undergraduate pilot training program where pilots from various member nations train together.
  • Mountain Home Air Force Base, Idaho: Hosts the Singaporean Air Force's 428th Fighter Squadron for F-15SG pilot training and will host a new facility for Qatari F-15 pilots.
  • Luke Air Force Base, Arizona: An international foreign military sales F-35 pilot training center is located here, with personnel from allies including Poland, Finland, Singapore, and Germany.
  • Edwards Air Force Base, California: The United Kingdom's XVII Test and Evaluation Squadron is based here.
  • Ebbing Air National Guard Base, Arkansas: Will soon be home to a new facility for F-35 training, moving from Luke AFB.
It makes sense that if we're selling aircraft to other countries, that we train their pilots. That's basically all that's happening here. I don't think that the Qatari presence is substantively different from any of these other examples. It just snuck into the news cycle. It was noteworthy in that the announcement came from the Trump administration, but the concern that was raised was by Trump allies.
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That's what I said - there are foreign training facilities here but not permanent BASES.

Warman Pete stated it was a base, then retracted afterwards.
 
  • And so the drama continues...

www.actionnews5.com

Court denies restraining order challenging deployment of National Guard in Memphis

The suit was filed in Davidson County Chancery Court on October 17. The group argues that Governor Lee’s unilateral deployment of troops violate state law and the Tennessee Constitution.
www.actionnews5.com www.actionnews5.com

Here is a rundown:
The Governor wants them here,
The County Mayor is fighting it,
The Memphis City Council is split on it and a resolution opposing them failed.

Since the "Task Force" was created and implemented shortly before the National Guard actually arrived the following has occurred:
1044 Arrests including the following:
  • 8 homicide suspects
  • 116 narcotics arrests
  • 110 firearm arrests
  • 418 warrants
  • 2 violation of probation or parole
  • 48 sex offense arrests
  • 155 “other”
  • 187 “administrative” - The DOJ says the above ‘administrative’ arrests relate to immigration violations, such as individuals who do not have legal status in the U.S.
  • 21 juvenile arrests
  • 92 “known” gang members
They also had:
4,993 traffic citations issued
56 missing children located
18 search warrants executed
63 misdemeanor citations issued


I was down there last week for a meeting and when we got out, I was surprised to see how many families were walking around that area. Overall the feel was just safer. But let's see if this lasts once the task force goes home.
 
michaelskis said:
I was down there last week for a meeting and when we got out, I was surprised to see how many families were walking around that area. Overall the feel was just safer. But let's see if this lasts once the task force goes home.
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I think the outcome isn't that much of a surprise. Having a greater presence of law enforcement can help things be quieter. The challenge that most of us deal with is that the cost to provide that level of continuous security is untenable for municipal budgets, and there is a diminishing return on how much you fully fund for law enforcement as you sacrifice all of the other services that you provide. I would also be interested in the level of recidivism that happens later on as these people get out of jail. Throwing people in jail is not the silver bullet to solving crime - it's one part of a more comprehensive system.
 
dw914er said:
I think the outcome isn't that much of a surprise. Having a greater presence of law enforcement can help things be quieter. The challenge that most of us deal with is that the cost to provide that level of continuous security is untenable for municipal budgets, and there is a diminishing return on how much you fully fund for law enforcement as you sacrifice all of the other services that you provide. I would also be interested in the level of recidivism that happens later on as these people get out of jail. Throwing people in jail is not the silver bullet to solving crime - it's one part of a more comprehensive system.
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I agree, and I think it is also more complicated than the federal government is willing to accept. Crime of this magnitude does not just happen. It is not just one off big events, but a steady stream of issues that I believe stem from cultural issues. There are way too many people in Memphis who feel that crime is the only way they can get ahead, get respect, or stay alive. This culture has been formed over decades and I think a lot of it has to do with how some of these kids are being raised. In 2013 there was a report and again recently where the police said that that they are losing this battle because the teenage population is out of control. I know this won't be a popular opinion, but I think a lot of it stems from the the realization that these kids are being raised in fatherless households.

The other is being arrested is one thing, being convicted is something very different. There are a lot of judges in the area that won't actually do anything to punish criminals so they end up back on the streets with the belief that they can just keep doing what they were doing.

The other element of all this is it is not just the national guard that is in Memphis. The FBI, State Troopers, County, and even the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency has armed patrols as part of this. Part of that isn't because Memphis won't fund the positions, it is because no one wants to be a cop there. They have over 2500 positions but less than 2000 officers as of this summer. Between the "Defund the Police" and the backlash with the Tyre Nichols death, no one in the region wants to deal with it.
 
michaelskis said:
I agree, and I think it is also more complicated than the federal government is willing to accept. Crime of this magnitude does not just happen. It is not just one off big events, but a steady stream of issues that I believe stem from cultural issues. There are way too many people in Memphis who feel that crime is the only way they can get ahead, get respect, or stay alive. This culture has been formed over decades and I think a lot of it has to do with how some of these kids are being raised. In 2013 there was a report and again recently where the police said that that they are losing this battle because the teenage population is out of control. I know this won't be a popular opinion, but I think a lot of it stems from the the realization that these kids are being raised in fatherless households.

The other is being arrested is one thing, being convicted is something very different. There are a lot of judges in the area that won't actually do anything to punish criminals so they end up back on the streets with the belief that they can just keep doing what they were doing.

The other element of all this is it is not just the national guard that is in Memphis. The FBI, State Troopers, County, and even the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency has armed patrols as part of this. Part of that isn't because Memphis won't fund the positions, it is because no one wants to be a cop there. They have over 2500 positions but less than 2000 officers as of this summer. Between the "Defund the Police" and the backlash with the Tyre Nichols death, no one in the region wants to deal with it.
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Lack of accountability is certainly an issue. My wife is a school teacher, and many parents (not just fatherless households) are unwilling or unable to really parent their kids, which adds additional fuel to the fire. There are a lot of challenges at play here, which makes leveraging solutions difficult.
 
Doohickie said:
  • Mountain Home Air Force Base, Idaho: Hosts the Singaporean Air Force's 428th Fighter Squadron for F-15SG pilot training and will host a new facility for Qatari F-15 pilots.
Click to expand...
I bumped into some of those pilots about a decade or so ago out on Wake Island...
 
dw914er said:
I think the outcome isn't that much of a surprise. Having a greater presence of law enforcement can help things be quieter. The challenge that most of us deal with is that the cost to provide that level of continuous security is untenable for municipal budgets, and there is a diminishing return on how much you fully fund for law enforcement as you sacrifice all of the other services that you provide. I would also be interested in the level of recidivism that happens later on as these people get out of jail. Throwing people in jail is not the silver bullet to solving crime - it's one part of a more comprehensive system.
Click to expand...
I think a lot about the approach police take in Europe as being far more effective. They are super visible and present (just cruising with lights on, etc.), but not dressed as goddamn stormtroopers roughing people up. But Europe's general economic structure with less disparity also seems to play a role in reducing crime, at least my perception. That's the thing the USA really sucks at--addressing societal causes of crime. Most crime seems to come from a place of economic desperation causing pressure and negative action. If you address that, you lower the temperature. The USA operates at a very high temperature, and contributes to our crime rates.
 
I have seen a lot of discussion on social media regarding the ball room that Trump is building at the White House.

I thought these articles are interesting regarding what other presidents have done:
www.whitehousehistory.org

An Ever-Changing White House

The White House is the home to the president and his family; the office for the president and his staff; the ceremonial...
www.whitehousehistory.org www.whitehousehistory.org
www.newsweek.com

Photos show how White House has changed over years as Trump demo begins

Trump’s demolition is part of a larger construction project for the $250 million White House state ballroom.
www.newsweek.com www.newsweek.com

Having said that, there is question if Trump went through the correct procedures to get approval.
 
The idea that the president can instruct the DOJ to pay $230 M in legal fees to himself for the court case that was thrown out only because they couldn't prosecute a sitting president should be a step too far for anyone. If that happens than they should probably remove any ethics requirements at every level of government.
 
bureaucrat#3 said:
The idea that the president can instruct the DOJ to pay $230 M in legal fees to himself for the court case that was thrown out only because they couldn't prosecute a sitting president should be a step too far for anyone. If that happens than they should probably remove any ethics requirements at every level of government.
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Ethics and the Federal Government have never coexisted. Sure, there are some ethical people there, but they have never been the majority.
 
michaelskis said:
Ethics and the Federal Government have never coexisted. Sure, there are some ethical people there, but they have never been the majority.
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Most of the federal employees I know have been decent and ethical people. I think federal employees and elected officials are somewhat different. I think it's wrong and blurs the line when we don't call out the over the top self dealing. I don't believe presidents should be able to negotiate book deals while in office, but this is a whole different level.

Elected and high level appointed and administrative officials be prevented from making laws and decisions that will lead to their financial gain. I don't believe we can ever stop people from being greedy, but we should at least make them act like they're trying to be ethical.
 
Bubba said:
Just flat wrong...
Click to expand...

You may say, but history says otherwise.
  • Conway Cabrel - 1777 - 1789
  • William Blout 1797
  • XYA Affair 1789-1900
  • Alien and Sedition Acts & Matthew Lyon (1798)
  • James Wilkinson 1787-1811
  • Aaron Burr & the New Empire 1804-1807
  • Aaron Burr & Alexander Hamilton 1804
  • Samuel Chase 1805
  • John Pickering 1804
  • Benjamin Sabastian 1806
  • John Quincy Adams & Corrupt Bargain 1824
  • Samuel Swartout 1829
  • Petticoat Affair 1829 - 1831
  • Robert Potter 1831 & 1835
  • Charles Mitchell 1841
  • Galphin Affair 1849
  • Brooks & Sumner 1865
  • John Browns raid on Harpers Ferry 1859
  • Orsamus Matteson 1857

And that is only the first 15 administrations...

bureaucrat#3 said:
Most of the federal employees I know have been decent and ethical people. I think federal employees and elected officials are somewhat different. I think it's wrong and blurs the line when we don't call out the over the top self dealing. I don't believe presidents should be able to negotiate book deals while in office, but this is a whole different level.

Elected and high level appointed and administrative officials be prevented from making laws and decisions that will lead to their financial gain. I don't believe we can ever stop people from being greedy, but we should at least make them act like they're trying to be ethical.
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You are right the hired staff for the most part is terrific. I should have clarified... Every political party has had elected officials who have acted unethically while holding federally elected positions during every administration since the founding of this country. The intensity of these have varied, but they have existed none the less.
 
Gedunker said:
I'm glad I'm not the current historic preservation specialist for the White House. :astonished:
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Now they are demolishing the whole East Wing. I’m sure there was no NEPA review done at all. While the White House is technically exempt from Section 106 review, it does have to comply with Section 107 and consult with a number of bodies including:

Advisory Council on Historic Preservation
DC Historic Preservation Office
National Capital Planning Commission
U.S. Commission of Fine Arts
OMB (likely got a rubber stamp there)

I am ever so thankful my kids took me to DC for my birthday in 2023 and got tickets for a White House holiday tour. The visitor entrance is the section that was demolished this week. This is nothing short of desecration of a national treasure.
 
kjel said:
Now they are demolishing the whole East Wing. I’m sure there was no NEPA review done at all. While the White House is technically exempt from Section 106 review, it does have to comply with Section 107 and consult with a number of bodies including:

Advisory Council on Historic Preservation
DC Historic Preservation Office
National Capital Planning Commission
U.S. Commission of Fine Arts
OMB (likely got a rubber stamp there)

I am ever so thankful my kids took me to DC for my birthday in 2023 and got tickets for a White House holiday tour. The visitor entrance is the section that was demolished this week. This is nothing short of desecration of a national treasure.
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It took me damn near a full fecking year to get the DC SHPO, NCPC, and the CFA on the same page with the design for a middling bridge project... :mad:
 
...and we were originally told this summer that the new Hilton Convention Center Meeting Room would not touch the East Wing.

He mouths opens and he lies.
 
Erosion of democracy is so very sad.


N.C. Republicans approve new congressional map favoring Trump, GOP control(Associated Press)

Republican lawmakers finalized new U.S. House districts designed to add a GOP seat and weaken Democrat Don Davis’s chances in eastern North Carolina. The map, immune to Gov. Josh Stein’s veto, is expected to face court challenges over alleged racial gerrymandering. Democrats call it “disgraceful;” Republicans say it reflects voter will.
 
As for the White House construction, I believe this is more a distraction from the much more important damaging & illegal economic/budgetary/political/democratic/'law enforcement' activities of this Administration.

The White House is about #93 on my list of importance.
 
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kjel said:
You have no idea what you are talking about. Signed, a former federal employee.
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You are correct and I apologize if I offended you or any other federal employee. I should have provided more clarification. I retracted the broadness of my statement and clarified in post #18,075.

Signed, a student of history.
 
michaelskis said:
You are correct and I apologize if I offended you or any other federal employee. I should have provided more clarification. I retracted the broadness of my statement and clarified in post #18,075.

Signed, a student of history.
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I appreciate you clarifying this. I assumed you meant elected vs rank and file. It drives me crazy when we as a whole paint with broad brushes to demonize whole professions groups. I'm bad about it. I've tried to actively tone down my disdain for most realtors and car sales people.

It amazes me over the last couple of years professions that were always considered honorable are being attacked the way they are. I never thought I'd see a day when scientist, doctors, and teachers were described as villains.
 
mendelman said:
As for the White House construction, I believe this is more a distraction from the much more important damaging & illegal economic/budgetary/political/democratic/'law enforcement' activities of this Administration.

The White House is about #93 on my list of importance.
Click to expand...
Demolition of the East Wing touches on four of the five points you consider "much more important".

Who are the donors and what do they expect in return? Silence from the administration ...
Where is the money coming from, if there is a shortfall? Silence from the administration and Rs in Congress ...
The building was part of the "softer side" of the White House/AKA The People's House, so what becomes of that history? Silence from the administration ...
What of the norms of previous presidents going through a public vetting process to -- even if not strictly required -- get public buy-in? Silence again ...

Is this any way to run a country?
 
Gedunker said:
Demolition of the East Wing touches on four of the five points you consider "much more important".

Who are the donors and what do they expect in return? Silence from the administration ...
Where is the money coming from, if there is a shortfall? Silence from the administration and Rs in Congress ...
The building was part of the "softer side" of the White House/AKA The People's House, so what becomes of that history? Silence from the administration ...
What of the norms of previous presidents going through a public vetting process to -- even if not strictly required -- get public buy-in? Silence again ...

Is this any way to run a country?
Click to expand...

Dude is a real estate developer. It's no way to run a country, but it's exactly the way a developer would run a country. The annoying bravado and self-importance, disrespect of expertise, scorn for the process, disdain for the people involved, and the over-riding obsession with self-image and finally the absolute devotion to the money, the money, the fucking money. He is the cartoon of a real estate developer. We've all dealt with versions of him since we were in our 20s. If there's a group on this planet that should not be surprised by this behavior, Cyburbia is it. This is what happens when the developer becomes the government...and isn't it just peachy?

Sorry, that's all I'm going to say, and I know people's politics are more than something like this, but I just can't ignore what I see in this kind of thing that he does.
 
Gedunker said:
Demolition of the East Wing touches on four of the five points you consider "much more important".

Who are the donors and what do they expect in return? Silence from the administration ...
Where is the money coming from, if there is a shortfall? Silence from the administration and Rs in Congress ...
The building was part of the "softer side" of the White House/AKA The People's House, so what becomes of that history? Silence from the administration ...
What of the norms of previous presidents going through a public vetting process to -- even if not strictly required -- get public buy-in? Silence again ...

Is this any way to run a country?
Click to expand...
I hear you, but this specific activity is not as important in my opinion than the 'demand' for the DOJ to pay him, the chaos of traffics, the domestic invasion forces, the mid-census redistricting, etc, etc.
 
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