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NEVERENDING ♾️ The NEVERENDING Political Discussion Thread

michaelskis said:
I do wonder when the American people will have enough of these two parties and make a decision to go in a different direction
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gump.gif


I thought that's what happened in November 2016 when Trump was elected. So, what happened? Was his "different direction" not different enough?
 
Hink said:
Not sure those whom I know in the USDOT disagree. Who disagrees and why would they think that? Honest question.
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I spent about a year as an embedded FTE within a USDOT component agency under the Biden administration; based on that (and subsequent interactions with USDOT feds within the various component agencies), I'd say that the majority of the rank-and-file are neutral to negative on the good Mayor. Admittedly, that is heavily anecdotal and just a small sample size considering the overall number of USDOT employees, so take it FWIW.
 
Wannaplan? said:
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I thought that's what happened in November 2016 when Trump was elected. So, what happened? Was his "different direction" not different enough?
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They voted for the a major party nominee that bulldozed his way through the primaries on lies and empty promises and it was "the lesser of two evils". I don't see how that is any different than any other election.
 
Bubba said:
I spent about a year as an embedded FTE within a USDOT component agency under the Biden administration; based on that (and subsequent interactions with USDOT feds within the various component agencies), I'd say that the majority of the rank-and-file are neutral to negative on the good Mayor. Admittedly, that is heavily anecdotal and just a small sample size considering the overall number of USDOT employees, so take it FWIW.
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Understood. I have worked with, and have some friends who work within the USDOT organization, that have been generally pretty happy with how he has managed the people in the organization. With 50,000 employees or more, I would imagine that many people have many different opinions though.

I wonder if anyone is actually happy with any secretary though. Those positions are not empowered to much outside of the scope of the President, and I would imagine you can only make it your own to a point.
 
michaelskis said:
I think each of the benchmarks of a stable society continue to crumble before our eyes. I am not saying that we will have a full on collapse, but I do wonder when the American people will have enough of these two parties and make a decision to go in a different direction. I have no idea if that will come in the form of vote or force, and I pray that it is vote, I do see more and more people expressing their thoughts on everything from infrastructure, to foreign policy, to economy, to health care, and everything in between.

As I have posted previously, the genius of this clip is so many of us can relate to what is is saying, even if it was just a TV show. When this was created over a decade it was a thought, but now we can actually feel what he is saying:


But regardless of what happens in DC, we have a duty to change this country starting with were we live and work. Our homes and our communities are the places that we have the greatest level of influence and our neighbors can see the greatest change. I think as planners, we have even a greater capability to make real change a reality. It does not matter if we vote R or D, but I think we know what needs to happen to improve the quality of lives of the people who live in our communities and we strive to do that every day. If things do go bad and it results in significant restructuring, there will be winners and losers. There always is. But if our communities and households have strong foundations, we will be just fine, if not better than before.
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This was such a great show.
 
The 118th Congress has few laws to show for its first year
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And it isn't even close. So we are now at a place where the people who are elected get nothing done. I am aware that the majority of this is the Republican party who seems to stand for nothing anymore, but the D's are also part of the problem. It is obviously that we have such gerrymandered districts that people don't actually have to be reasonable anymore, but I am not sure what is going to change in the short term to see things get better. With more money in politics, more gerrymandering, and less ability to see the forest for the trees - I am wondering what can be done.

All this, with a President that is pretty successful - DOW highest ever, lowest unemployment ever, rising real wages, strong GDP, and getting control of inflation - and yet he isn't universally loved... even by Democrats!

If you ask me, the problem is generational. We are moving away from the world of the 50/60/70's and moving into the world quickly for those in the 90/2000/2010 (just skipping over my generation completely ;)). That means cultural changes that our political environment hasn't caught up to yet. The fact that we don't have two parties who support climate change, gay marriage, and more of a social support system is crazy in the 21st century. The bootstraps bull$h!t that the generations from the 50/60/70 say you should do isn't achievable the same way any longer in the current America and that means we have to think differently. It is still possible, but not the same way that it was when you could just get a paper route and make enough money to cover college ;)

What are your thoughts? What is the fix? What is the root cause? I am aware these won't happen soon, but I do think they may happen sooner, as it feels we are at a breaking point in congress.
 
My dickish retort to anyone complaining about <insert name of next generation here> is "go look in the mirror at the generation that raised them."

Step one is for the Boomer generation to step aside. One thing I've noticed, and it is across multiple areas of life, is that organizational leadership in their 50s/60s and older has been steadfast in not relinquishing power and have been borderline intentional in undermining succession planning. I mean, what the F was Feinstein still doing in Congress? I get the feeling it is the sense of mortality sneaking up on them--they don't want the feeling of being put out to pasture, and perhaps a struggle to live up to the Silent Generation of WWII heroes, etc. I'll go so far as to say it contributed to the gerrymandering approach of creating safe districts, as in so safe that an incumbent can view it as a lifetime appointment (so they don't ever have to acknowledge their mortality even to others within their party). I think this is a contributing factor in later generations not opting to join community organizations--they see it as one more area in which the prior generation isn't making space for them.

It will take inability for Congress to make decisions at some critical juncture... think along the lines of a 9/11 sort of moment. If that event happened today, I don't think you see the coalescence around the flag and parties working together. I think you see the system lockup.

I'm also not someone that worries too much about the Federal government failing to function. Belgium has gone years at a time without a functional parliament.
 
Steve Bannon has the answer to keep kids safe in schools...arm them.

www.rawstory.com

Steve Bannon calls for arming kids with guns to stop school bullying

Conservative podcast host Steve Bannon said that children should be taught to handle guns in school so they are not "picked on" by bullies.During a program at Turning Point USA's America Fest on Tuesday, Bannon lamented that gun classes were not taught to young students in most schools.ALSO...
www.rawstory.com www.rawstory.com
 
fringe said:
www.theguardian.com

Colorado supreme court disqualifies Trump from state’s 2024 ballot

State’s highest court declares former president ineligible for White House under the US constitution’s insurrection clause
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

The start of a cascade we hope.
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Now I don't want Trump in office either, but they are citing his involvement with the Insurgency Riots as the reason why. My concern is he hasn't been convicted of anything yet. If he had had been convicted, then there is no issue.

I have fears that if he gets into office, he will never leave and then we will be up a creek. Something like this only fuels the outrage of his supporters.
 
michaelskis said:
Now I don't want Trump in office either, but they are citing his involvement with the Insurgency Riots as the reason why. My concern is he hasn't been convicted of anything yet. If he had had been convicted, then there is no issue.

I have fears that if he gets into office, he will never leave and then we will be up a creek. Something like this only fuels the outrage of his supporters.
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Impeachment is not criminal but political. He faces criminal charges.
 
michaelskis said:
Now I don't want Trump in office either, but they are citing his involvement with the Insurgency Riots as the reason why. My concern is he hasn't been convicted of anything yet. If he had had been convicted, then there is no issue.

I have fears that if he gets into office, he will never leave and then we will be up a creek. Something like this only fuels the outrage of his supporters.
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I can see that thought process, but a court found that he incited insurrection. Most confederate soldiers up to Jefferson Davis were never convicted of treason, insurrection or other crimes.
 
Neither Jeff Davis nor any soldier committed crimes. They worked for the legislators that declared an insurrection.
 
Taking up arms against the rightful government is most definitely a crime in this country. Every single Confederate was treasonous. End of story.
 
bureaucrat#3 said:
I can see that thought process, but a court found that he incited insurrection. Most confederate soldiers up to Jefferson Davis were never convicted of treason, insurrection or other crimes.
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I am not arguing and I 100% agree. But for his voters, unless he is convicted, they don't care. And even then for some of them it won't be enough.
 
Gedunker said:
Taking up arms against the rightful government is most definitely a crime in this country. Every single Confederate was treasonous. End of story.
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Don't you talk about my great great great grandaddy that way.. BTW I am not a follower of "genealogy" and am not an ancestor worshipper.
 
michaelskis said:
I am not arguing and I 100% agree. But for his voters, unless he is convicted, they don't care. And even then for some of them it won't be enough.
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He could go up to almost every one of his voters and say I committed a crime, show a video of him doing it, and then say he would do it again. Most of his voters would say he only did it to protect America, the video is a deep fake, and they love him because he's going to keep "fighting for them." At this point most of his supporters are going to follow him anywhere. There are still a lot of people who don't like him, but somehow think he's better than a democrat and will vote for him when the time comes. Those people will say the court overstepped its bounds, but hope and pray in private that he gets disqualified.
 
bureaucrat#3 said:
He could go up to almost every one of his voters and say I committed a crime, show a video of him doing it, and then say he would do it again. Most of his voters would say he only did it to protect America, the video is a deep fake, and they love him because he's going to keep "fighting for them." At this point most of his supporters are going to follow him anywhere. There are still a lot of people who don't like him, but somehow think he's better than a democrat and will vote for him when the time comes. Those people will say the court overstepped its bounds, but hope and pray in private that he gets disqualified.
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For context see Joseph Conrad's "Lord Jim".
 
michaelskis said:
he hasn't been convicted of anything yet
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Generally, in terms of the Supreme Court cases I have read about in my short life, the ability of the courts to address issues related to the Constitution, do not necessarily, I think, have to involve a conviction. Yes, rigorous and thorough fact finding would need to be a thing. But it seems to me, as a lay observer with constrained and limited mental capacity and not very well educated at all, there must have been enough publicly available information about the happenings surrounding the J6 event, that the CO Supreme Court probably had to able make a determination on the ripeness of the 14A case that was brought before them. One can be incensed and outraged about the "raw deal" that Trump is getting in CO right now, but at the end of the day, the nature of what has gone before that particular court, does seem ripe.
 
Wannaplan? said:
Generally, in terms of the Supreme Court cases I have read about in my short life, the ability of the courts to address issues related to the Constitution, do not necessarily, I think, have to involve a conviction. Yes, rigorous and thorough fact finding would need to be a thing. But it seems to me, as a lay observer with constrained and limited mental capacity and not very well educated at all, there must have been enough publicly available information about the happenings surrounding the J6 event, that the CO Supreme Court probably had to able make a determination on the ripeness of the 14A case that was brought before them. One can be incensed and outraged about the "raw deal" that Trump is getting in CO right now, but at the end of the day, the nature of what has gone before that particular court, does seem ripe.
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You are way too modest.
 
michaelskis said:
I am not arguing and I 100% agree. But for his voters, unless he is convicted, they don't care. And even then for some of them it won't be enough.
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It's not his voters that I'm concerned about. Most of them see him as some kind of messiah. It's the other Rs that just dismiss the crimes, the hate speech, and whatever else because it would get them primaried or they would lose some votes. It's come down to gotta hate on Dems over having any kind of moral grounds. Those are the people I want voted out. Vote out the support and tRump goes away.
 
DVD said:
It's not his voters that I'm concerned about. Most of them see him as some kind of messiah. It's the other Rs that just dismiss the crimes, the hate speech, and whatever else because it would get them primaried or they would lose some votes. It's come down to gotta hate on Dems over having any kind of moral grounds. Those are the people I want voted out. Vote out the support and tRump goes away.
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Very valid. The Republican Party at this point does not actually have a platform, and doesn't stand for anything. Well, maybe fascism.

It is really unfortunate, because the U.S. needs multiple healthy political parties from multiple perspectives. At this point, I'd settle for two.
 
Suburb Repairman said:
Very valid. The Republican Party at this point does not actually have a platform, and doesn't stand for anything. Well, maybe fascism.

It is really unfortunate, because the U.S. needs multiple healthy political parties from multiple perspectives. At this point, I'd settle for two.
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I voted for Nader in Y2K, for Bernie in '12, for Howard Dean, heck, for Gene McCarthy in '72. I agree we should have more choices.
 
michaelskis said:
Now I don't want Trump in office either, but they are citing his involvement with the Insurgency Riots as the reason why. My concern is he hasn't been convicted of anything yet. If he had had been convicted, then there is no issue.

I have fears that if he gets into office, he will never leave and then we will be up a creek. Something like this only fuels the outrage of his supporters.
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None of the folks exempted from office due to the 14th Amendment have been tried since it was enacted as part of Reconstruction. Whether he is convicted of any crime is irrelevant, as the Amendment is an additional eligibility requirement for holding high public office. Like you have to be at least 35 years old, born in the US, and not given aid and comfort to groups trying to overthrow the Constitution.
 
"In any case, what you need to know is that America responded remarkably well to the economic and social challenges of a deadly pandemic. By most measures, we’re a nation on the mend."

From Krugman at the New York Times, source:

Is America on the Mend?

Well, is that a good verdict? Or is it just a "hot take" for the sake of content production? What say you?
 
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DVD said:
It's not his voters that I'm concerned about. Most of them see him as some kind of messiah. It's the other Rs that just dismiss the crimes, the hate speech, and whatever else because it would get them primaried or they would lose some votes. It's come down to gotta hate on Dems over having any kind of moral grounds. Those are the people I want voted out. Vote out the support and tRump goes away.
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When Chris Christie seems like the sane person of the party, you know that everyone else has cowered.
 
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Watched Independent Lens last night on PBS about a family's escape from North Korea and a mother trying to get her son out as well. Excellent reminder of what a f**ked up place that is. (It'd be my luck for Trump to deport me there after the next election for not being American-enough - I wouldn't last 2 minutes ...)
 
“Choose your leaders with wisdom and forethought.
To be led by a coward is to be controlled by all that the coward fears.
To be led by a fool is to be led by the opportunists who control the fool.
To be led by a thief is to offer up your most precious treasures to be stolen.
To be led by a liar is to ask to be told lies.
To be led by a tyrant is to sell yourself and those you love into slavery.”

― Octavia E. Butler, Parable of the Talents
 
michaelskis said:
Does Iowa matter anymore?
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That state hasn't chosen the ultimate winner in the last 5 of 7 caucuses. Additionally the fact that it was -50(ish) outside and only 15% of registered R voters turned out. I thought it was more telling that some D's & I's went and changed their party just to attend the caucus.
 
What do you do when Trump says "“Vivek started his campaign as a great supporter, ‘the best President in generations,’ etc. Unfortunately, now all he does is disguise his support in the form of deceitful campaign tricks (...) Very sly, but a vote for Vivek is a vote for the ‘other side’ — don’t get duped by this. Vote for ‘TRUMP, don’t waste your vote! Vivek is not MAGA."?

You endorse him, apparently.
 
Planit said:
^^^tRump keeps saying who's a MAGA, not who's a Republican.
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Can I be a MAGA, even though I'm a Democrat?
I really DO want to help make America great again! When I say "again" I refer to relatively recent times when the overwhelming majority of Americans believed in a democracy (with a small "d").
 
Well it is Trump v. Haley. Let the party begin.

DeSantis was a severe disappointment. Now he will go back to Florida and make that state even worse. Still not sure why Florida thinks he is a good Governor.
 
At a recent NH 'rally', tRump blames Nikki for Jan 6th refusal of national guard troops. Oops I mean Nacy.
I'm very cognitive.
 
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