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NEVERENDING ♾️ The NEVERENDING Political Discussion Thread

Rittenhouse should be convicted and serve substantial time. He had no objective legal reason to be in another City in another State and the self-defense claim is absurd.

The McMicheals and Bryan need to be convicted and sentenced to terms equal to the severity of each individual's involvement in the murder of Arbery. The vigilantism is illegal and the claim of self-defense is absurd since they rolled on the deceased with trucks and guns when he was running in running clothes, which is a clearly massive imbalance of power.

Bubba said:
Thanks, Godwin. :r:
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Do you have a substantive argument in the other direction?

Because I tend to believe people meant to do something when they literally tell me and then do it in plain sight in real time.
 
michaelskis said:
And based on the responses here, the Capitol riots have nullified anything that a liberal has ever done.
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No.

The riots and property destruction in 2020 were crimes and those who committed them should be prosecuted.

The insurrection, egged on by the literal Republican President of the United States right before it happened, was also criminal and those involved should be prosecuted.

They're both terrible. I have been consistent in my statements on these subjects throughout this entire thread.

MD Planner said:
The issue to me isn't liberals and conservatives. It's extremists on both sides. And for whatever reason they seem to be driving a lot of the conversation on both sides.
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Exactly. We need to root out and greatly diminish the destructiveness of all fanatical, blind extremism.
 
mendelman said:
Again. Do you have a substantive argument in the other direction?
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You're asking me to present arguments that the entire Republican party is not, in fact, literally Hitler. Really? I've got better things to do this glorious Friday morning, like organizing a mini-Laefest in Savannah on Christmas Eve.
 
Bubba said:
You're asking me to present arguments that the entire Republican party is not, in fact, literally Hitler. Really? I've got better things to do this glorious Friday morning, like organizing a mini-Laefest in Savannah on Christmas Eve.
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I didn't say they were literal Hitler...because that is literally impossible. Hitler is dead. No one can be literal Hitler.

I said the party is speed walking to facism. That's a very different statement as history does not repeat, but it definitely rhymes.

To rephrase: Do you have any statements to refute the existential crisis/threat the Republican party is presenting and fostering to our Republic through it's current Federal leadership and discourse?
 
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Can we stop calling the Capitol thing a riot? It was an insurrection. There is a huge difference. A riot is a disturbance of the peace. Usually a mob of people are together for a reason and start destroying things. Happens after basketball games, bad court cases, whatever. An insurrection is an attack against the government. Neither are a good thing planned or otherwise, but people keep trying to downplay the Jan 6 insurrection by calling it riot or protest of just patriots gathered together.
 
Also please read this article in its entirety. The Unite The Right rally is Charlottesville in 2017 was NOT planned as a peaceful protest that got hi-jacked by antifa as some would have you think. It was a planned provocation for an excuse to riot under the disguise of a peaceful protest.

www.cnn.com

The Unite the Right trial is exposing the chasm between who plans White nationalism's battles and who does the fighting

A key federal defendant accused of conspiracy over the 2017 Unite the Right rally was forced this week to confront his own explicit calls for violence -- and who should do the actual fighting -- in the months before the deadly event unfolded in Charlottesville, Virginia.
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com
 
I suppose we can expect to see Proud Boys or other militia groups sending vigilante 'patrols' into African American neighborhoods now that they know they can cite feeling one's life is in danger as one's reason to gun people down will get you an acquittal. Go justice system.

That said, can't say I'm surprised.
 
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It's certainly going to be political hyperbole fodder for sure across the political spectrum.
 
I found this interesting. It also contains aspects of urban planning and how liberal cities actively suppress affordable housing. =>
 
Stadthaus said:
I found this interesting. It also contains aspects of urban planning and how liberal cities actively suppress affordable housing. =>
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Except this video opinion is full of spurious conflation of national, state and local platforms and policies.

For example, the State of California has approved SB9 and SB10 which effectively overrides some local control on housing density laws - https://sanjosespotlight.com/collins-what-does-sb-9-and-sb-10-really-mean-for-our-neighborhoods/ (Collins: What does SB 9 and SB 10 really mean for our neighborhoods? - San José Spotlight) He mentions this barely at the end of the video, but totally ignores the fact that the legislation negates most of the argument he's already made. The YIMBY movement in the US (mostly in traditionally liberal bastions) is a strong counter argument to the ideas in this poor opinion piece.

As for the discussion of school district boundaries and funding, this opinion piece is so infinitely wrong it's almost impossible to comprehend. ZIP Codes are not equal to municipal boundaries or school districts and the three are often, everywhere, seldom consistent with each other. This commentator has no fundamental understanding of the political and legal organization of what he's discussing to even warrant his opinion. None of the last 6 districts I've lived in since 2003 ever covered the entire county (in three states).

The evidentiary basis for this opinion piece is spuriously conflationary and fundamentally wrong in most of it's 'arguments'.
 
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mendelman said:
Except this video opinion full of spurious conflation of national, state and local platforms and policies.

For example, the State of California has approved SB9 and SB10 which effectively overrides some local control on housing density policies - https://sanjosespotlight.com/collins-what-does-sb-9-and-sb-10-really-mean-for-our-neighborhoods/ (Collins: What does SB 9 and SB 10 really mean for our neighborhoods? - San José Spotlight) He mentions this barely at the end of the video, but totally ignores the fact that the legislation negates most of the argument he's already made. The YIMBY movement in the US (mostly in traditionally liberal bastions) is a strong counter argument to the ideas in this poor opinion piece.

As for the discussion of school district boundaries and funding, this opinion piece is so infinitely wrong it's almost impossible to comprehend. ZIP Codes are not equal to municipal boundaries or school districts and the three are often, everywhere, seldom consistent with each other. This commentator has no fundamental understanding of the political and legal organization of what he's discussing to even warrant his opinion. None of the last 6 districts I've lived in since 2003 ever covered the entire county (in three states).

The evidentiary basis for this opinion piece is spuriously conflationary and fundamentally wrong in most of it's 'arguments'.
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Well i see your point, but even if some of the things he says are wrong, overall i think he has a point. Now I can only look at the problem from the outside because I don't know the local situation in detail. But I've heard quite a bit about it already, so I'll give you my thoughts on it now.

Far too little is happening given the severity of the crisis. There has to be a lot more upzoning, but there is so much resistance to it that it is hardly enough to even come close to solving the problem. In the article you linked you can read about how slow and small the progress really is. I think that is simply not enough for such a liberal state and that liberal states have the most homeless people is simply a fact.

Regarding the School Districts, I have to say that you are right and that there is this extreme decentralization of government that reinforces inequality along state and local government lines in a way that is unknown in the rest of the developed world and he is probably wrong when he says or suggests that Democrats are responsible for it, but i also think he got a point in the sense that Democrats could just end this, but don't do it.

Johnny Harris isn't a Republican or an anti-Democrat. He is right to criticize the fact that Democrats are simply not doing enough. But that's just my opinion as an outsider. I just wanted to post the video because it brings politics and aspects of urban planning together.
 
Stadthaus said:
Well i see your point, but even if some of the things he says are wrong, overall i think he has a point. Now I can only look at the problem from the outside because I don't know the local situation in detail. But I've heard quite a bit about it already, so I'll give you my thoughts on it now.

Far too little is happening given the severity of the crisis. There has to be a lot more upzoning, but there is so much resistance to it that it is hardly enough to even come close to solving the problem. In the article you linked you can read about how slow and small the progress really is. I think that is simply not enough for such a liberal state and that liberal states have the most homeless people is simply a fact.

Regarding the School Districts, I have to say that you are right and that there is this extreme decentralization of government that reinforces inequality along state and local government lines in a way that is unknown in the rest of the developed world and he is probably wrong when he says or suggests that Democrats are responsible for it, but i also think he got a point in the sense that Democrats could just end this, but don't do it.

Johnny Harris isn't a Republican or an anti-Democrat. He is right to criticize the fact that Democrats are simply not doing enough. But that's just my opinion as an outsider. I just wanted to post the video because it brings politics and aspects of urban planning together.
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I hear what you're saying, but his conflation that statements from a national party political platform are direct lines to the hyper local level is irresponsibly shallow, at best.

There are so many competing and contradictory policies and wants and peculiar cultural biases between the national platform and the local politicians that his statements have to be taken with a Moon sized grain of salt.

But I will agree with one central thesis he implies: Humans are terrible at keeping ideals and actions regularly consistent. That's endemic to human nature.
 
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mendelman said:
But I will agree with one central thesis he implies: Humans are terrible at keeping ideals and actions regularly consistent. That's endemic to human nature.
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Yes, but that's something that needs to be exposed. Hypocrisy does harm to good ideals. Republicans are completely irrational in my opinion, but if Democrats would do everything right, Republicans wouldn't exist as political party.
 
gtpeach said:
Well.

www.npr.org

Kyle Rittenhouse is acquitted of all charges in the trial over killing 2 in Kenosha

Rittenhouse was 17 years old and armed with an AR-15-style rifle when he fatally shot two protesters and wounded a third in August 2020. A jury found he acted in self-defense on a night of unrest.
www.npr.org www.npr.org
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He may have been found Not Guilty but he's still a killer

The deeper implications is that this will basically give the far right a "permission slip" to kill by deliberately putting themselves in harm's way just to shoot someone. This is what they've been foaming at the mouth for for years.
 
Super Amputee Cat said:
He may have been found Not Guilty but he's still a killer

The deeper implications is that this will basically give the far right a "permission slip" to kill by deliberately putting themselves in harm's way just to shoot someone. The is what they've been foaming at the mouth for for years.
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I don't always agree with everything you say, but in this case I agree and wouldn't be surprised if this decision serves to embolden some kooks out there who will intentionally place themselves in harm's way so that they can kill people and claim self defense.
 
Super Amputee Cat said:
He may have been found Not Guilty but he's still a killer

The deeper implications is that this will basically give the far right a "permission slip" to kill by deliberately putting themselves in harm's way just to shoot someone. This is what they've been foaming at the mouth for for years.
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Maister said:
I don't always agree with everything you say, but in this case I agree and wouldn't be surprised if this decision serves to embolden some kooks out there who will intentionally place themselves in harm's way so that they can kill people and claim self defense.
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But this is going to be highly tempered by the jurisdiction in which such a stunt occurs.
 
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I get he put himself in harm's way but he also had a gun shoved in his face and was beaten with a skateboard. Plenty of culpability to go around. I'm not big on the hyperbole that this decision gives carte blanche to kill people.
 
Maister said:
That said, can't say I'm surprised.
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www.kptv.com

News

www.kptv.com www.kptv.com

I can’t say I am surprised with this either. And you can’t say I didn’t call it.

I have no issues with peaceful protests, but vandalism and rioting is a different situation. But that is the extreme left’s SOP. Cause chaos…
 
Interesting graph on how Twitter still favors Right Wing media.


SimpleScanStation20211120140704_3b.jpg
SimpleScanStation20211120140704_3a.jpg
 
Stadthaus said:
I found this interesting. It also contains aspects of urban planning and how liberal cities actively suppress affordable housing. =>
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He assumes that because decisions are being made in a liberal state, they are from liberals, and those expressing the NIMBY attitudes are also liberals. The reality simply isn't that simple. As a general observation, local politics tend to lean more to the right than left, and I can think of a number of local councils, counties, and even federal representatives in left-leaning areas that are filled with right-wing, in some cases pretty significantly right-wing, elected officials. I take issue with the broad brush concept since it misses a lot of key details.

Plus, as most of us know, those that attend meetings tend to represent the smaller but more vocal voice. And while people like to see progress, they are going to be hesitant towards change, regardless of political ideals. We're human, and can't help but make some pretty self-focused reactions even if we should know better. Finally, some of the people leaving California are going to places that have predominately single family housing - more conservative states do not necessarily have housing policies that fix those underlying issues.
 
Stadthaus said:
I found this interesting. It also contains aspects of urban planning and how liberal cities actively suppress affordable housing. =>
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Wealth often transcends political party affiliations, no high income neighborhood/town/city will ever be convinced to willingly allow multifamily development or affordable housing-double negative points if it's affordable housing for families and not just seniors. Theoretically many (fake) progressives agree that affordable housing is needed and there should be more of it, but not int their backyard because it will change the "character" of the community and bring "those people" here. Rinse and repeat all across America. Scarcity is often one of the driving forces of the housing market price increases, so is cheap capital. Over the past 20 years there is an estimated shortfall of 5 million housing units. The foreclosure crisis and the economic meltdown contributed greatly to this, so has immigration reform, and more recently the pandemic.

Regarding the "regressive" tax policy of Washington state, well every state differs on how they go about taxing its residents. The only think that doesn't differ? That states are taxing its residents. Washington state does not have a personal or business income tax which means its coming from elsewhere like state and local sales tax (regressive), use tax, and property tax. In South Carolina you have to pay an annual property tax on your vehicle in order to keep it registered, current year tax is $250 on a 2018 Honda CRV. This is in addition to real estate property tax, state and local sales tax, and use tax. If a state isn't getting it from you one way, they're getting it another way.

School funding is generally tied to real estate property taxation. Higher value communities ostensibly have more taxable resources and better school funding in areas of wealth (see first paragraph). A previous comment said ZIP codes don't correlate with municipal boundaries or school districts; in NJ they most certainly do. Only the large cities have multiple zip codes and most zip codes correlate with municipal boundaries and school district boundaries almost certainly line up with municipal boundaries. There are a few exceptions where a school district will encompass a handful of smaller towns, but they generally share socio-economic characteristics. NJ has many excellent school districts, but it also has exceedingly awful districts in its urban and lower income munis as well. One thing that state does do is provide additional funding to those low income districts to bring their per student funding level up to or over par to their comparable middle income districts. Other states have regional school districts that cover larger geographies or even run on a county level. School administration and school funding has always been locally controlled.

I think there's a lot of nuance left out of the video. It wasn't bad, but basically it was a skim of several key issues that affect all people regardless of their political affiliation.
 
Super Amputee Cat said:
He may have been found Not Guilty but he's still a killer

The deeper implications is that this will basically give the far right a "permission slip" to kill by deliberately putting themselves in harm's way just to shoot someone. This is what they've been foaming at the mouth for for years.
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It's only a matter of time before the Proud Boys and other similar groups start showing up to protests and start shooting and to a lesser extent the reverse. All in all, it doesn't bode well when coupled with the contempt epidemic in our society.
 
kjel said:
I think there's a lot of nuance left out of the video. It wasn't bad, but basically it was a skim of several key issues that affect all people regardless of their political affiliation.
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I'd go further in that the total lack of real nuance in all his opinions coupled with a completely incorrect understanding of the political and cultural reason(s) for school districts' boundary organization in Cook County, IL (a specific micro-region I know well) undercuts the validity to all of his statements/opinions.

If you're going to make blanket and pseudo-intellectual sounding knowledgeable statements about a very specific place/locality/circumstance, you lose all credibility if you get the fundamentals completely wrong by not actually understanding the specific how and what, thereby automatically invalidating your own augment.

But that's not really the point of the video's hyperbole. I get it, but it's also emblematic of the issues our society is having right now.
 
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I was catching up on my podcasts over the weekend while chopping up leaves and listened to a recent episode of Freakanomics. (Great podcast, btw)

It was a discussion of the epidemic of Contempt and how badly it bodes for our future. It's worth a listen. The TL:DR is basically this, contempt is the combination of anger and disgust. It dehumanizes and feeds on itself like an addiction cycle. It is dangerous and needs to be addressed.

freakonomics.com

How Can We Break Our Addiction to Contempt? - Freakonomics

How Can We Break Our Addiction to Contempt? - Freakonomics
freakonomics.com
 
estromberg said:
I was catching up on my podcasts over the weekend while chopping up leaves and listened to a recent episode of Freakanomics. (Great podcast, btw)

It was a discussion of the epidemic of Contempt and how badly it bodes for our future. It's worth a listen. The TL:DR is basically this, contempt is the combination of anger and disgust. It dehumanizes and feeds on itself like an addiction cycle. It is dangerous and needs to be addressed.

freakonomics.com

How Can We Break Our Addiction to Contempt? - Freakonomics

How Can We Break Our Addiction to Contempt? - Freakonomics
freakonomics.com
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I agree 100%.
 
mendelman said:
I'd go further in that the total lack of real nuance in all his opinions coupled with a completely incorrect understanding of the political and cultural reason(s) for school districts' organization in Cook County, IL (a specific micro-region I know well) undercuts any validity to all of his statements/opinions.

If you're going to make blanket and pseudo-intellectual sounding knowledgeable statements about a very specific place/locality/circumstance, you lose all credibility if you get the fundamentals completely wrong by not actually understanding the specific how and what, thereby automatically invalidating your own augment.

But that's not really the point of the video's hyperbole. I get it, but it's also emblematic of the issues our society is having right now.
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I agree. His example of Cook County and the school system does not work well either. For example, we have a county wide school system here and we have the exact same issue. The county spends money in the higher value areas instead of the lower value areas.

I also think you are on point with the perception of the issues of our society.
 
michaelskis said:
I agree. His example of Cook County and the school system does not work well either. For example, we have a county wide school system here and we have the exact same issue. The county spends money in the higher value areas instead of the lower value areas.

I also think you are on point with the perception of the issues of our society.
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Especially when there's the matter of vastly misunderstanding scale.

Cook County, IL:
  • ~5,275,000 population (second most populous US county after LA County, CA)
  • More than 130 incorporated munis
  • 945 square miles of land
  • Cook County's population is larger than that of 28 individual U.S. states, and the combined populations of the seven smallest states
Does Rhode Island have only one school district? Or Delaware? Or Montana? Kentucky?

It doesn't take much 'next level questioning' to completely undercut this video's validity/credibility.

I know I seem to have a major bone to pick with this video, but it's so completely lacking in any rigor or thoughtfulness that it's really getting under my skin.

Imagine if some of us did this kind of 'analysis' when presenting to our elected officials. :oops:
 
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Y'all been watching Impeachment (American Crime Story) on FX? I just started Episode 4. What an excellent show! I absolutely love Sarah Paulson as Linda Tripp! Amazing acting! And Clive Owen is a dead-ringer for Bill Clinton!
 
I'm curious when they make the inevitable Crimes and Greed in the Executive Mansion tv miniseries biopic, who they're going to get to play Trump and what impact it will have on the American public when they see those crimes/events reenacted on screen?
 
Maister, FX already has a throughline on that one in Episode 3 via Ann Coulter of all people, it was a laff-out-loud moment for me, sad to say.
 
Ah, the joys of redistricting - my congress critter (a D waste-of-space that beat an R waste-of-space/professional election loser) has already announced that she will run in a different district next time (unfortunately, around here you don't have to actually live in the district you represent, you just have to live in the state).

Yay. :r:
 
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