NEVERENDING ♾️ The NEVERENDING Political Discussion Thread

[Planit]

Do any of you have big elections tomorrow. We have a significant one. Our current Mayor is not running for reelection. When you add up his time on the planning board for a couple years, then Council, and then as Mayor, he has been involved for almost 50 years and almost 25 as Mayor.

By the end of the night tomorrow, he will know who his successor will be.

3 Council seats - 2 of the seats have incumbents running & there is 1 open seat. There are a total of 6 running for those 3 seats. There could be impacts, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

The previous mayor did not run in the last election and the replacement is a far cry from what we had. So sad.

 

[michaelskis]

3 Council seats - 2 of the seats have incumbents running & there is 1 open seat. There are a total of 6 running for those 3 seats. There could be impacts, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

The previous mayor did not run in the last election and the replacement is a far cry from what we had. So sad.

We have two running for mayor and four running for two seats. Both incumbents for the at large seats are running. One of those running for Mayor is currently on council, so if they get elected, someone will need to be appointed to the remainder of their term.

It is going to be interesting to see who gets elected. There is one person that another staff member had issues with, and I would not be surprised if we hear of a retirement if that person gets elected. Personally, I have had nothing but good interaction with him so we will see.

 

[MD Planner]

We only have two ballot questions in my county.

1. Changing the form of government so certain positions are appointed instead of elected. I'm all for it as now there are no real requirements for the auditor and treasurer and also no real ability of anyone (other than voters during an election) to even hold them accountable for anything.

2. There's a question to pass a Local Option Sales Tax (LOST) which would add a penny to most sales and would be used to offset property taxes (71% of the revenue) and the rest for municipal and county operations. Would mostly go towards transportation needs. I don't have a problem with this except that there is no sunset on it and the only way to get it repealed is to get a certain percentage of voters to sign a petition and take it to referendum. I think it should be the other way and it should have to be "renewed" every so often by the voters. I'm still on the fence because of that issue and likely won't decide until I go to vote after work.

 

[fringe]

It is very ironic that the surging wave of suspicion of election validity has generated a tsunami of candidates. Our little town (1300 pop) elects candidates routinely by single digit margins in races where vote totals rarely exceed two digits.

The mayor of another (185 pop), for which I conduct building inspections, has adopted zoning for first time ever. I quoted him my hourly rates for zoning admin, but he has not replied except to say he will appoint me. He paid an architect to design a million-dollar new city hall, (a town with no property tax as yet). My comments to him about how he might proceed have gone right over his head.

 

[WSU MUP Student]

I've got nothing to vote for in my burg but I'm interested to see what happens in the city council race in TTND.

The city where my office is has a mayoral race and I'm also interested to see what will happen there. The sitting mayor, who I liked but most in my office and administration seemed not to, isn't on the ballot because she screwed up her filing and didn't win her write-in campaign during the primary. This is a pretty depressed, but slowly rebounding rust belt city and the D candidate (who should win as it's a heavily D city) is a relative newcomer so I'm interested to see how she does, plus, I like her last name.

A bit further south, Detroit has a mayoral election that hasn't really gotten much press at all this year locally. I think everybody here just assumes Duggan will walk away with it again.

 

[michaelskis]

The City I live in has Council elections that have turned super nasty on social media. I am happy I don't work there because it is not going to be pleasant regardless of who gets elected.

 

[Maister]

 

[fringe]

The City I live in has Council elections that have turned super nasty on social media. I am happy I don't work there because it is not going to be pleasant regardless of who gets elected.

Thank Newt Gingrich, who married his high school teacher, for bring that tactic into practice.

 

[michaelskis]

What do you think the results in VA say about the mid-terms next year or Biden's chances in 2024?

Do you think it means anything at all or is this a sign of a bigger issue?

 

[MD Planner]

I think it's absolutely a sign of a bigger issue with the Democratic party. IMHO there is a significant portion of the party that is definitely not onboard with much of the social justice/woke/cancel culture (whatever you want to call it). That and the open checkbook that the party seems to think this country has. But hey what do I know? I'm not a political operative. I work for a living!

 

[Planit]

Midterms usually are a hiccup or pull back. This will be interesting to watch.



On the home front, we stayed with the status quo.

 

[gtpeach]

The GOP swept the Virginia state election yesterday. I know they were calling for it to be close, but I'm still surprised. We've been pretty reliably blue as a state for the last 8 years or so. The D candidate was governor four years ago (governors are not allowed to serve back-to-back terms in VA) and he did a really good job supporting infrastructure investment. I'm a little worried about what this loss will do to some of the initiatives that have really taken off since his first term, but we'll just have to wait and see what actually happens. The campaigns didn't seem to actually emphasize those stances - they were more run on culture war issues, unfortunately.

The positive part is that the GOP candidate was not closely associated with Trump, so I think it shows that there is an opportunity for other GOP candidates to distance themselves from Trump and still run successful campaigns.

 

[michaelskis]

I think it's absolutely a sign of a bigger issue with the Democratic party. IMHO there is a significant portion of the party that is definitely not onboard with much of the social justice/woke/cancel culture (whatever you want to call it). That and the open checkbook that the party seems to think this country has. But hey what do I know? I'm not a political operative. I work for a living!

The GOP swept the Virginia state election yesterday. I know they were calling for it to be close, but I'm still surprised. We've been pretty reliably blue as a state for the last 8 years or so. The D candidate was governor four years ago (governors are not allowed to serve back-to-back terms in VA) and he did a really good job supporting infrastructure investment. I'm a little worried about what this loss will do to some of the initiatives that have really taken off since his first term, but we'll just have to wait and see what actually happens. The campaigns didn't seem to actually emphasize those stances - they were more run on culture war issues, unfortunately.

The positive part is that the GOP candidate was not closely associated with Trump, so I think it shows that there is an opportunity for other GOP candidates to distance themselves from Trump and still run successful campaigns.

I think that you are both correct in your perception. A coworker of mine who is a solid democrat was telling me last week that the party is going too far with the woke culture and she is sick of it. I don't think that she would ever vote for a republican, but it would not surprise me if she just didn't vote for a particular D candidate. I also wonder about Biden's health and if he will run for reelection in 3 years. If I were the democrats, I would find someone who holds true to the traditional Democrat values (think more of someone between Al Gore and JFK) and they would win in a landside.

However, if the GOP could find someone who was charismatic and balanced with a strong conservatives economic push but rational when it came to civil rights, equality, and equability, I think that they would be a serious contender and would prevent a 2nd term of the Biden Administration. But that also means finding someone who would stand up against Trump. I think Liz Cheney was trying to position herself in that way, but the majority of the GOP is till in Trump Fantasy Land and have effectively pushed her out. Personally, I don't like some of her environmental or education policies.

 

[fringe]

Where do I get this shirt, or is it a preview to Melania's jacket she will wear when orangeman declares for a return to his seat at the right hand of Putin?

 

[Bubba]

There was nothing statewide for me to vote on; locally it was just mayor and my city council district, plus two tax things. The incumbents won handily (which I'm good with, even though I voted against my councilwoman - a neighbor of mine was running, and the incumbent was going to win anyway, so...). Both tax referendums passed as well, one of which I was very much in favor of, and one I was completely indifferent to.

 

[Maister]

Only one local election for a city council seat, the outcome of which was pretty much inconsequential to me. Oh, and a renewal of a millage for public transportation funding.

 

[Gedunker]

Indiana blessedly without elections the year after a Presidential election. Glorious peace and quiet. The next three years are full of 'em, though, and they will undoubtedly be nasty affairs. I can't wait.

National Democrats shoot themselves in the foot yet again. What a surprise!

 

[DVD]

Boring stuff here. Not my city, but other cities have things like should we do a contract with a water district and some school bonds.

 

[michaelskis]

I was wondering what everyone's thoughts are on "the squad" and their impacts on the democratic party, the republican party, and politics as a whole?

 

[Planit]

It's really astonishing to me that the 13 Republicans that voted for the infrastructure bill are being labeled as traitors.

Well maybe not astonishing in this crazy, but it is certainly boggles my feeble mind.

 

[mendelman]

It's really astonishing to me that the 13 Republicans that voted for the infrastructure bill are being labeled as traitors.

Well maybe not astonishing in this crazy, but it is certainly boggles my feeble mind.

This clearly shows that some/many of the congressional republicans are simply there for media attention and 'owning the Dems' not for leading the country and improving the nation.

A bipartisan bill is exactly what 'everyone' wanted, but now that we have it, the Rs show they never really wanted it.

Shame!

When was the last time a Republican President passed a substantial infrastructure bill? I'm sincerely curious.

 

[Planit]

This article is so 'on point'

Infrastructure was once a crashing bore. Now it symbolizes our sick, violent politics.

Will this be the last gasp of bipartisan deal-making? If it's this dangerous to vote for infrastructure, there's no safe common ground in politics.

www.usatoday.com

It's so ridiculous that one party has a plan that doesn't get moved forward because of petty BS. The when the other party has a similar plan and it gets passed, it is treason!

 

[JNA]

UnF'ing believable

Matt Gaetz Wants To Hire Kyle Rittenhouse as a Congressional Intern

Matt Gaetz Wants To Hire Kyle Rittenhouse as a Congressional Intern

The Florida congressman wants to reach out to 18-year-old to see if he'd be "interested in helping the country in additional ways" if acquitted.

www.newsweek.com

 

[Maister]

UnF'ing believable

Matt Gaetz Wants To Hire Kyle Rittenhouse as a Congressional Intern

Matt Gaetz Wants To Hire Kyle Rittenhouse as a Congressional Intern

The Florida congressman wants to reach out to 18-year-old to see if he'd be "interested in helping the country in additional ways" if acquitted.

www.newsweek.com

This is a sign of how dysfunctional the political culture has become in this country. It seems the GOP is now unofficially the 'pro-crime' party. It's bad enough when criminals like Trump and Gaetz get elected to high office, but the GOP's failure to call out or reign in its criminal elements, and the way that it seems to now embrace kooky conspiracy theorists says volumes about how low they've sunk.

 

[Planit]

^^^Gaetz - Greene - Boebart - Cawthorn - Cruz.
At least Gosar got censured.


Here in NC, Cawthorn is switching districts to have a easier time winning reelection. Thats really representing your constitutes.

 

[estromberg]

UnF'ing believable

Matt Gaetz Wants To Hire Kyle Rittenhouse as a Congressional Intern

Matt Gaetz Wants To Hire Kyle Rittenhouse as a Congressional Intern

The Florida congressman wants to reach out to 18-year-old to see if he'd be "interested in helping the country in additional ways" if acquitted.

www.newsweek.com

He's offered to pay $20/hr via Venmo.

 

[JNA]

Florida GOP passes measures limiting vaccine mandates, plan OSHA withdraw

Florida GOP passes measures limiting vaccine mandates, plan OSHA withdraw

The most contentious measure would prevent private businesses from having vaccine mandates unless they allow workers to opt out for medical reasons, religious beliefs, immunity based on a previous infection, regular testing or an agreement to wear protective gear.

www.wptv.com

- measure would prevent private businesses from having vaccine mandates unless they allow workers to opt out for medical reasons, religious beliefs, immunity based on a previous infection, regular testing or an agreement to wear protective gear.
The measure also includes fines for businesses that fire a worker without allowing the exemptions. Additionally, it bars schools and governments in the state from having vaccine mandates and allows parents to sue schools with masking requirements.

- passed a bill to stop the state health officer from being able to mandate vaccines during a public health emergency.

- Another bill would block the public release of records regarding state investigations of vaccine policies in businesses.

- approved a bill directing the state to begin considering a withdrawal from the federal Occupational Safety and Health Administration


Florida files legal challenge to Medicare, Medicaid vaccine rule

Florida files legal challenge to Medicare, Medicaid vaccine rule

The suit comes as Florida lawmakers approve state vaccine mandate bans.

floridapolitics.com

 

[mendelman]

Florida GOP passes measures limiting vaccine mandates, plan OSHA withdraw

Florida GOP passes measures limiting vaccine mandates, plan OSHA withdraw

The most contentious measure would prevent private businesses from having vaccine mandates unless they allow workers to opt out for medical reasons, religious beliefs, immunity based on a previous infection, regular testing or an agreement to wear protective gear.

www.wptv.com

- measure would prevent private businesses from having vaccine mandates unless they allow workers to opt out for medical reasons, religious beliefs, immunity based on a previous infection, regular testing or an agreement to wear protective gear.
The measure also includes fines for businesses that fire a worker without allowing the exemptions. Additionally, it bars schools and governments in the state from having vaccine mandates and allows parents to sue schools with masking requirements.

- passed a bill to stop the state health officer from being able to mandate vaccines during a public health emergency.

- Another bill would block the public release of records regarding state investigations of vaccine policies in businesses.

- approved a bill directing the state to begin considering a withdrawal from the federal Occupational Safety and Health Administration

Warren Foster must have known something was 'wrong' with Florida back in 1949.

 

[gtpeach]

- approved a bill directing the state to begin considering a withdrawal from the federal Occupational Safety and Health Administration

How does that work? Can states withdrawal from any federal administrative agency they don't want to comply with?

 

[mendelman]

How does that work? Can states withdrawal from any federal administrative agency they don't want to comply with?

They can at least try, I guess.

 

[michaelskis]

This is a sign of how dysfunctional the political culture has become in this country. It seems the GOP is now unofficially the 'pro-crime' party. It's bad enough when criminals like Trump and Gaetz get elected to high office, but the GOP's failure to call out or reign in its criminal elements, and the way that it seems to now embrace kooky conspiracy theorists says volumes about how low they've sunk.

While I don't agree with Gaetz, this whole situation is characteristic of a much broader issue that goes across both sides of the political spectrum.

Kenosha WI schools have decided to go virtual for the remainder of the week because of the potential outcome of the trial as well as the conflicts between protesters at the courthouse. If he is not found guilty, I am quite sure the protests will intensify and possibly spur into riots. However as we have seen from the extremists right-wing, they are not above protests and riots either, so I would anticipate something occurring if he is found guilty as well.

I also think that this whole situation comes down to how people react to fundamental differences.

All of this started because in August 2020 to a 911 call about a domestic indecent,, a police officer shot Jacob Blake who had a criminal history and was disobeying police orders including reaching into his SUV and picked up a knife. This spurred outrage in the community that resulted in more than a week long protests with riots that resulted in 50 million of property damage that also included both a police officer and a firefighter being hospitalized. The investigation into the shooting of Blake indicated that the officers followed protocol and no charges would be issued.

My question is if the outcome of the trial sparks additional protests and riots, will this cycle of violence continue?

 

[Maister]

While I don't agree with Gaetz, this whole situation is characteristic of a much broader issue that goes across both sides of the political spectrum.

If it goes across both sides it doesn't do so in anything like equal proportions. No, right now one of the major political parties in this country is majorly out of control to the point they're threatening the future of our democracy. Gonna call BS on the whole 'both sides do it, so they're both just as bad' canard.

 

[Hink]

"When you don't actually stand for anything, you have to make a stand about everything". Hink, a Philosopher (or I heard it somewhere, but I don't recall)

The GOP has, since Paul Ryan left, really not put a reasonable or logical policy playbook out for the public to agree or disagree with. Mitch McConnell found that by just politicizing everything Obama did, he would get people riled up enough to come out and vote against something they feared. The GOP then went berzerk and began to go against policy positions instead of actually having rational positions or policy differences.

Trump made it worse mainly because he was a terrible leader, and just did what he wanted to do without any policy or reason. And even if he thought something, he would go against it the next day if it was politically expedient.

The GOP fear machine is working though. I think 2022 will be a landslide election in the GOP favor because the Dem's really think the majority of the Country want to take GIANT steps towards policy changes, when in reality baby steps are okay. That leap attempt is going to play out in 2022, but so far it looks pretty clear that they should have went small, not huge. Bipartisanship isn't possible. You have to win elections. You have to win 60 votes in the Senate, win the House and the White House to get your policies through. Without a supermajority, trying to take huge leaps is political suicide.

 

[mendelman]

(or I heard it somewhere, but I don't recall)

Actually, I'm pretty sure it was Winston Churchill paraphrasing Charlemagne....but I get what you're laying down.

 

[Gedunker]

I was hoping a new Thomas Payne would arise among us and pen a sequel to Common Sense. But I despair that one party simply has none. If you lack it, you simply can't apply it, and thus all hope is lost.

I give our liberal democracy five years, tops.

 

[DVD]

Should I point out the state of Florida has a vaccine mandate. My wife's cousin works for the state and hates the hypocrisy.

 

[mendelman]

I plan to buy this property, setup a rustic cabin site and go full lake side hermit.

 

[luckless pedestrian]

I plan to buy this property, setup a rustic cabin site and go full lake side hermit.

I had to go to the map to see wtf this was and when I panned back there was a marker for Marijuana Security Operations a little north of Lincoln and it made me laugh

 

[mendelman]

I had to go to the map to see wtf this was and when I panned back there was a marker for Marijuana Security Operations a little north of Lincoln and it made me laugh

That's rural northern Michigan for you.

You can go so far right that you end up with the far lefties in the libertarian camp.

In this part of MI, you can easily find true libertarians. Don't bother them and they won't bother you.

Not unlike rural northern ME, I presume.

 

[michaelskis]

If it goes across both sides it doesn't do so in anything like equal proportions. No, right now one of the major political parties in this country is majorly out of control to the point they're threatening the future of our democracy. Gonna call BS on the whole 'both sides do it, so they're both just as bad' canard.

Ok, left-leaning extremists are more likely to riot than right-wing extremists in recent history. Neither are innocent though.

 

[Maister]

Ok, left-leaning extremists are more likely to riot than right-wing extremists in recent history. Neither are innocent though.

Civil disorder associated with BLM protests and the January 6 attack on the capitol are two entirely different phenomenon. If you can't see the essential difference between racial tensions and a violent attempt to overturn a popularly elected government I can't help you.

 

[michaelskis]

Civil disorder associated with BLM protests and the January 6 attack on the capitol are two entirely different phenomenon. If you can't see the essential difference between racial tensions and a violent attempt to overturn a popularly elected government I can't help you.

How's the view down there?

My post wasn't in regards to the reason for the protest but who was protesting when it turned into a riot. There are several different reasons for protests and riots. What the extremist right-wing did on January 6th was wrong. But so were several of these in response to Donald Trump. Most of them were peaceful, but there were still quite a few that turned violent.

 

[Maister]

The right wing is actively targeting the apparatus of leadership in a deliberate and concerted campaign to seize control. This has as much relationship to a random political rally that breaks into violence, as a boxing match does. Sure, they're both throwing punches, but apart from that they have no relationship.

 

[michaelskis]

The right wing is actively targeting the apparatus of leadership in a deliberate and concerted campaign to seize control. This has as much relationship to a random political rally that breaks into violence, as a boxing match does. Sure, they're both throwing punches, but apart from that they have no relationship.

I both agree and disagree. What happened with the Capitol riot should never happen. But that event does not lessen the statistics of violent protests with property damage caused by the extreme left.

 

[Maister]

I both agree and disagree. What happened with the Capitol riot should never happen. But that event does not lessen the statistics of violent protests with property damage caused by the extreme left.

My point is that is a prime example of false equivalence. BLM is not an existential threat to our democracy. Jan 6 coup attempt was. No legitimate comparison to be made, other than both had a bunch of angry people.

 

[mendelman]

My point is that is a prime example of false equivalence. BLM is not an existential threat to our democracy. Jan 6 coup attempt was. No legitimate comparison to be made, other than both had a bunch of angry people.

And the current normalization efforts of Jan 6th by current R legislators is the clear and blatant distinction.

 

[michaelskis]

My point is that is a prime example of false equivalence. BLM is not an existential threat to our democracy. Jan 6 coup attempt was. No legitimate comparison to be made, other than both had a bunch of angry people.

You are completely missing my point. In the situation with Kyle Rittenhouse, is there more likely to be protests and riots if he is found guilty, or not found guilty? Who are the likely antagonists with each of those outcomes?

I know that you want to debate the Riots at the Capitol and how that is different. I don't disagree. But we are talking about history of those who are likely to have protests that lead to violence and property damage, right-wing extremists or left-wing extremists?

 

[mendelman]

You are completely missing my point. In the situation with Kyle Rittenhouse, is there more likely to be protests and riots if he is found guilty, or not found guilty? Who are the likely antagonists with each of those outcomes?

I know that you want to debate the Riots at the Capitol and how that is different. I don't disagree. But we are talking about history of those who are likely to have protests that lead to violence and property damage, right-wing extremists or left-wing extremists?

But you're arguing a point that he didn't make.

No, right now one of the major political parties in this country is majorly out of control to the point they're threatening the future of our democracy.

He said 'parties'. Not political leaning or philosophy.

The Republican Party is clearly trying to normalize insurrection, sow seeds of deep cultural division and not lead at all, just grub for winning for the sake of winning.

Which is shown to be a hollow prospect, because the only thing they did of real national substance when they last controlled the legislative and executive branches was a massive tax cut to the wealthy.

The Republican Party is speed walking toward facism and a complete abdication of leadership for all the people.

They're a duplicitous disgrace.

 

[michaelskis]

But you're arguing a point that he didn't make.

He said 'parties'. Not political leaning or philosophy.

The Republican Party is clearly trying to normalize insurrection, sow seeds of deep cultural division and not lead at all, just grub for winning for the sake of winning.

Which is shown to be a hollow prospect, because the only thing they did of real national substance when they last controlled the legislative and executive branch was a massive tax cut to the wealthy.

The Republican Party is speed walking toward facism and a complete abdication of leadership for all the people.

They're a duplicitous disgrace.

Ok, left-leaning extremists are more likely to riot than right-wing extremists in recent history. Neither are innocent though.

He was arguing my point that I didn't make. I didn't say parties, I said leaning or philosophy.

 

[Maister]

He was arguing my point that I didn't make. I didn't say parties, I said leaning or philosophy.

Mendelman is correct. My original post was

This is a sign of how dysfunctional the political culture has become in this country. It seems the GOP is now unofficially the 'pro-crime' party. It's bad enough when criminals like Trump and Gaetz get elected to high office, but the GOP's failure to call out or reign in its criminal elements, and the way that it seems to now embrace kooky conspiracy theorists says volumes about how low they've sunk.

and then

If it goes across both sides it doesn't do so in anything like equal proportions. No, right now one of the major political parties in this country is majorly out of control to the point they're threatening the future of our democracy. Gonna call BS on the whole 'both sides do it, so they're both just as bad' canard.

to which you responded with a straw man argument. My mistake was to even engage with your response.