• Cyburbia is a friendly big tent, where we share our experiences and thoughts about urban planning practice, the built environment, planning adjacent topics, and anything else that comes to mind. No ads, no spam, and it's free. It's easy to join!

NEVERENDING ♾️ The NEVERENDING Political Discussion Thread

Back to the economy and that loud SUCKING SOUND

The loud sucking sound is all that money being vacuumed up and sent to tax havens.

http://www.epi.org/publication/corp...they-owe/?mc_cid=5897c40ea0&mc_eid=7ae3546b2f

"Corporations complain about high tax rates stifling economic growth and profitability. But since 1952, corporate profits as a share of the economy have risen dramatically (from 5.5 percent to 8.5 percent), while corporate taxes as a share of the economy have plummeted (from 5.9 percent to just 1.9 percent). That is a 55 percent increase in profits and a 68 percent decrease in taxes."

"Federal revenue contributed by corporate taxes has dropped by two-thirds over the last six decades—from 32.1 percent in 1952 to 10.8 percent in 2015. Corporations used to contribute $1 out of every $3 in federal revenue. Today, they contribute just $1 out of every $9—at a time when they have never been more profitable."

"Corporate profits are way up, and corporate taxes are way down. In 1952, corporate profits were 5.5 percent of the economy, and corporate taxes were 5.9 percent. Today, corporate profits are 8.5 percent of the economy, and corporate taxes are just 1.9 percent of GDP."

Make 'Merica great again by taxing companies what we did in the 1950's!:D
 
On the police shooting side of things I think a lot of it goes to training. Take the lady in Tulsa. Why did she reach for the gun when she had other non lethal methods of handling the situation? The guy might have been reaching into the car for something, but the officer never saw a gun or lethal weapon so she had no reason to use lethal force. Police also need to learn how to calm down a situation. Not everyone is going to listen to their commands. They might be thinking I'll do this and the officer will understand. Maybe the officer should start listening to what the people are saying once in a while. Take the case (I think in Florida) where the guy was helping a mentally disabled guy and was shot while trying to tell the officers he was playing with a toy truck and had some issues. The lady in the Charlotte (2nd shooting) video is telling the cops her husband was on medication. Teach people to fully assess the situation and to adapt to new information and there will be less shootings. Sadly, easier said than done and it doesn't solve any racial problems, but it's a start.
 
This won't directly address the issue, but if you look at any of the implicit bias research, other black people are also likely to have a negative bias toward fellow blacks than they are to whites. Because I'm not looking up all this research on my lunch break, I would guess that a lot of it is due to conditioning, both in the past where blacks maybe wanted to be white in order to be treated better, or black children having only white toys to play with, to now as black people are standardly portrayed as criminals and "thugs" in a lot of our media.

So, I would say that even if the officer is black, he's still a product of this conditioning that he's experienced just as being a person in the U.S., but also in police culture where there is a lot of research that supports the idea that there is racial bias when officers choose how to treat suspects.

I think that this is an interesting point and your comments regarding conditioning of people further supports the idea of a cultural issue instead of a racial issue. Where do you think it starts? I ask because my kids have friends that are black, white, asian, and hispanic. None of the kids care what the other kids look like, as long as they are fun to be around. In terms of police culture, why do you think that it is that way? I think that understanding why these beliefs exists is an important factor to understanding how to solve the issues.

I also wonder if on some level we all do this, maybe not with race, but with appearance. If a person who appears to be homeless comes in asking questions about a vacant lot, are you going to think and respond differently than a guy in a suit?

To be honest, I don't follow the BLM movement. I think they started out generally being angry at the status quo, but are now starting to try to organize around actual policy ideas. I think the country as a whole being willingly to meaningfully engage in a serious discussion about this, and being willing to accept that the racial discrimination is real and is bigger than just a few rogue people acting outside the norm, is also a big step. But it's not an easy one.

There are a lot of suggestions for law enforcement, like support for community policing efforts to allow officers to get to know the folks in their patrol areas on a personal basis, citizen review boards, investigators from outside the department looking into any cases of interest, better training regarding implicit bias, etc. But that's just one area. And there are pervasive issues in tons of various other areas (housing discrimination, voter discrimination, potentially job discrimination, etc.). So, in my opinion, the way to solve the issues is to start listening, bring everyone together, and start working on solutions that are based in sound policy, and respect the voices of those that are disenfranchised. This is only going to be able to happen on a local level, in my opinion, but the feds could work to help put together tool kits and training programs and things like that.

I think you bring up some very good ideas and I agree that some of these should, and I think in some places are being implemented. I also think that like most things in life, it is a two way street. I think that there needs to be a cultural shift where police officers are seen as a benefit to the community instead of a problem.

But one thing that is for sure, riots and attacking police are not going to help the situation any. It just further strengthens the idea that police need to use extra caution around some people, which can set the wrong tone to defuse the situation.

On the police shooting side of things I think a lot of it goes to training. Take the lady in Tulsa. Why did she reach for the gun when she had other non lethal methods of handling the situation? The guy might have been reaching into the car for something, but the officer never saw a gun or lethal weapon so she had no reason to use lethal force. Police also need to learn how to calm down a situation. Not everyone is going to listen to their commands. They might be thinking I'll do this and the officer will understand. Maybe the officer should start listening to what the people are saying once in a while. Take the case (I think in Florida) where the guy was helping a mentally disabled guy and was shot while trying to tell the officers he was playing with a toy truck and had some issues. The lady in the Charlotte (2nd shooting) video is telling the cops her husband was on medication. Teach people to fully assess the situation and to adapt to new information and there will be less shootings. Sadly, easier said than done and it doesn't solve any racial problems, but it's a start.

The situation in Tulsa is a bit different than the situation in Charlotte, and I think that there needs to be a balance between diffusing the situation and still having the ability to protect yourself. The video of the shooting in Charlotte shows that the person who was shot and killed by the police officer was acting erratically, they already had confirmed that he had a gun, and did not obey any of the officers requests.

If you were the officer in Tulsa, and the suspect reached back into the vehicle, what would you have done? If you were the officer in Charlotte and saw the gun on the suspect, saw that he had been smoking weed, and he refused to obey your comments, and his hands continued to hover near his gun, what would you have done?
 

or pepper spray. There are plenty of non lethal options. The cop in Tulsa went for the gun at the same time another cop tasered the guy. I'm not up on all the Charlotte shootings, but even with the gun a taser should have been effective. If not, secure the area until the guy gets bored of not following directions and gives up.
 
I think you bring up some very good ideas and I agree that some of these should, and I think in some places are being implemented. I also think that like most things in life, it is a two way street. I think that there needs to be a cultural shift where police officers are seen as a benefit to the community instead of a problem.

Now this is really interesting, too. Typically, white people have a great deal of trust in police, and minorities are perceived as having a lower trust level. However, when all these other factors are considered such as demographics, education levels, amount of crime in neighborhoods, quality of police/citizen interactions, there is pretty much no difference. Based on that, I would conclude that disproportionately more blacks are untrusting of police because they are more likely to live in high crime areas, have lower educational levels, make less money, and have poorer interactions with police.

So I really think prioritizing funding for community policing efforts is one of the biggest, most important things that could be done to build that relationship. Yes, people from all sides have to come together, but it's important to consider that you're talking about people who have typically been disenfranchised and are used to feeling like their needs aren't as important. So in these situations, I think it goes along way for those that are seen as having the upper hand power-wise (police) to extend the olive branch and start building that trust.
 
Now this is really interesting, too. Typically, white people have a great deal of trust in police, and minorities are perceived as having a lower trust level. However, when all these other factors are considered such as demographics, education levels, amount of crime in neighborhoods, quality of police/citizen interactions, there is pretty much no difference. Based on that, I would conclude that disproportionately more blacks are untrusting of police because they are more likely to live in high crime areas, have lower educational levels, make less money, and have poorer interactions with police.

So I really think prioritizing funding for community policing efforts is one of the biggest, most important things that could be done to build that relationship. Yes, people from all sides have to come together, but it's important to consider that you're talking about people who have typically been disenfranchised and are used to feeling like their needs aren't as important. So in these situations, I think it goes along way for those that are seen as having the upper hand power-wise (police) to extend the olive branch and start building that trust.

I think you are right. Granted I work in an upper income area, but the local police department does a great job of getting out into the community. They give out certificates for free ice cream cones if they catch kids riding their bikes with a helmet on, they are at school functions, they have a cartoon mascot, and they now have a go cart or something along that lines that looks like a cartoon police car. In all of these cases, they are increasing the interaction with the young people to establish the idea that the cops can, and should be trusted.

I think that the fear and hate that lower income and minorities have towards police is taught to the youth because of the culture that they are in. As you pointed out, it also can correspond with crime rates. They don't see the cop coming to help out, the see the mean cop taking Mr. Johnson from across the street away in handcuffs while his wife yells at them. If you are a kid, how would you perceive the situation, especially if you are friends with Mr. Johnson's kids. Instead of the color of their skin, the kids, and the community, is biased towards the color of the uniform, often not understanding, or not wanting to understand, what they are there to try to do.
 
I thought that Hillary was looking pretty presidential tonight!

:lmao: Please tell me that you are kidding.


I watched the first half and had to turn it off. They both looked like total idiots who can't be trusted being the president of a PTA. Hillary did better than Trump, but I am quite sure that my neighbors dog could have done better than both of them. The fact that they are the only 'realistic' choices is an insult to the United States and right now foreign nations who have been allies of the US are thinking oh S&!#, the planet is F@%!ed.

I am not saying that anyone should vote for him, because I am not even sure if I will vote for him, but Gary Johnson should be in these debates just to smack both of them around with realistic policies that are constitutional.

I think this add sums last night up quite well...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLAh3pui-CI
 
I take issue with the sort of false equivalence you hear mskis and others use. That is, Trump and Clinton are both awful, don't vote for either.

There is a gulf of difference between the two candidates in this case. Say what you like about Clinton, but there's no question about her ability to govern - she knows how to drive the car. Trump, on the other hand, is a dangerously poor choice with little apparent grasp of the problems we face or the complex solutions needed to address them. Combine that with the psychological instability/fragility we've seen from this guy on several occasions and one begins to see how he presents a threat to our democracy both internationally and domestically.
 
I take issue with the sort of false equivalence you hear mskis and others use. That is, Trump and Clinton are both awful, don't vote for either.

I've had this debate on another board - I think your general characterization of the "don't vote for either" position as an equivalence (false or otherwise) is slightly off. They both suck as choices for President, but for very different reasons.

Anyhoo, the archaic electoral college system makes the decision not to vote for either in some states (like Georgia) easy - it doesn't matter who I vote for, this state's electoral college votes are going to Trump. Personally, I'm writing in Herschel Walker (the greatest American EVER) for President.
 
I've done a ton of research on both candidates. I admit I started out biased in favor of Clinton, but I've tried to research most of the claims against her in an effort to be fair. The more research I've done, the fewer concerns I have about her. I am amazed that Clinton is being named as the more untrustworthy candidate. No, she is not forthright about a lot of things, and there are some issues with her that are legitimate, but that I believe have been blown way out of proportion. Just because Trump says whatever's on his mind doesn't mean he is trustworthy, but it seems like the two are often conflated.

It's clear that Clinton knows what she's talking about, has put a lot of thought into her policy positions and plans. Granted, some more than others. And she took the debate seriously enough to do a lot of prep work for it. I think she accomplished exactly what she needed to. She remained calm and composed in the face of Trump's interruptions and insults, she had a sense of humor, and she came across as very down-to-earth and grounded. That's exactly the performance she needed to give to start improving her image with voters, specifically undecided voters.

Now, you may not like her policies, and that's completely understandable. But I feel like she'll be an effective president should she win the election in November.
 
I take issue with the sort of false equivalence you hear mskis and others use. That is, Trump and Clinton are both awful, don't vote for either.

There is a gulf of difference between the two candidates in this case. Say what you like about Clinton, but there's no question about her ability to govern - she knows how to drive the car. Trump, on the other hand, is a dangerously poor choice with little apparent grasp of the problems we face or the complex solutions needed to address them. Combine that with the psychological instability/fragility we've seen from this guy on several occasions and one begins to see how he presents a threat to our democracy both internationally and domestically.
I've had this debate on another board - I think your general characterization of the "don't vote for either" position as an equivalence (false or otherwise) is slightly off. They both suck as choices for President, but for very different reasons.

Anyhoo, the archaic electoral college system makes the decision not to vote for either in some states (like Georgia) easy - it doesn't matter who I vote for, this state's electoral college votes are going to Trump. Personally, I'm writing in Herschel Walker (the greatest American EVER) for President.
I've done a ton of research on both candidates. I admit I started out biased in favor of Clinton, but I've tried to research most of the claims against her in an effort to be fair. The more research I've done, the fewer concerns I have about her. I am amazed that Clinton is being named as the more untrustworthy candidate. No, she is not forthright about a lot of things, and there are some issues with her that are legitimate, but that I believe have been blown way out of proportion. Just because Trump says whatever's on his mind doesn't mean he is trustworthy, but it seems like the two are often conflated.

It's clear that Clinton knows what she's talking about, has put a lot of thought into her policy positions and plans. Granted, some more than others. And she took the debate seriously enough to do a lot of prep work for it. I think she accomplished exactly what she needed to. She remained calm and composed in the face of Trump's interruptions and insults, she had a sense of humor, and she came across as very down-to-earth and grounded. That's exactly the performance she needed to give to start improving her image with voters, specifically undecided voters.

Now, you may not like her policies, and that's completely understandable. But I feel like she'll be an effective president should she win the election in November.



sheeple-koolaid-sm.jpg


My grandfather was a truck driver and I rode with him a few times. Does not mean that I know how to drive a truck. Moreso, it does not mean that I would be good at it either.

The number 1 reason that I don't like her is because of her policies.
Her economic policies are wrong (LINK)

Her foreign relation policies are dangerious
Her gun policies are horrible and will become overley restrictive for good people while bad people will continue to get illegal guns (like the guy who was shot and killed in Charlotte)
And too many of her policies are business as usual despite what the Constitution says the federal government can do.

The second reason is she can't be trusted. She has a long trail of scandal behind her with an increasing body count of people who were closely associated with her and ended up dead.


Everything you said about trump is true...


Therefore, they both suck and you really need to ask yourself, do i want to be responsible for the chaos that will occur over the next 4 years when I vote for either of these people?

Send both parties a message. I don't care which 3rd party person you vote for. Seriously, I don't. But if enough people vote for someone else, DC will take notice.
 
I had to laugh last night. It was painful TV. Trump is really one of the worst candidates in the history of politics. His ignorance and inability to answer direct questions is amazing. Clinton certainly wasn't great, but Trump was world away in whatever universe he is living in.

But just watch Fox News and ask Sean Hannity, Trump won. ;)
 
I've had this debate on another board - I think your general characterization of the "don't vote for either" position as an equivalence (false or otherwise) is slightly off. They both suck as choices for President, but for very different reasons.

Anyhoo, the archaic electoral college system makes the decision not to vote for either in some states (like Georgia) easy - it doesn't matter who I vote for, this state's electoral college votes are going to Trump. Personally, I'm writing in Herschel Walker (the greatest American EVER) for President.

I've never been a fan of the electoral college system since watching Ross Perot make a failed attempt at a third party. What makes anyone think Johnson will do better? He's already lost a handful of state who are bound to vote for their party. His only chance is winning the other handful that go by popular vote and that ain't gonna happen. Although I understand the sentiment. These have to be some of the worst candidates we've seen in a long time. Trump gets smacked around like an oompa loompa when no one is looking and the other is just a big bundle of baggage, but at least she knows the rules of the game. Hilldog might not be my favorite, but Trump +o:)v:.

My favorite after debate quote from some random old lady, "I'm voting the conservative party and if that jackass is leading the mule train than that's who I'll vote for." Which says so much about what's wrong with 'Merica today.
 
I've never been a fan of the electoral college system since watching Ross Perot make a failed attempt at a third party. What makes anyone think Johnson will do better? He's already lost a handful of state who are bound to vote for their party. His only chance is winning the other handful that go by popular vote and that ain't gonna happen. Although I understand the sentiment. These have to be some of the worst candidates we've seen in a long time. Trump gets smacked around like an oompa loompa when no one is looking and the other is just a big bundle of baggage, but at least she knows the rules of the game. Hilldog might not be my favorite, but Trump +o:)v:.

My favorite after debate quote from some random old lady, "I'm voting the conservative party and if that jackass is leading the mule train than that's who I'll vote for." Which says so much about what's wrong with 'Merica today.

It is not just about this election. The more of the popular vote he gets, the more likely it will open up funding for future presidential elections, breaking the 2 party system. It is also a referendum on DC. Tell the WH and Congress that you are sick of politics as usual.

I don't have any pipe dreams that anyone other than Clinton will get elected. Trump stands zero chance of beating her. But it does not mean that people should vote for either of them. There is enough of the party status quo that that she will get elected, we will be screwed, but if her vote count is low enough, it might rattle enough people to realize that we as a society can do better.

Seriously, unless you think that they will do an awesome job, (which I could have further comments about, but that would result in me getting flagged for personal attacks), vote for someone else who won't get elected.
 
I didn't watch the debate but I read the transcript this morning.

I have come to the conclusion that Trump is either mentally retarded or was suffering a stroke throughout the entirety of the debate. His inability to string together a coherent sentence is astounding.
 
My grandfather was a truck driver and I rode with him a few times. Does not mean that I know how to drive a truck. Moreso, it does not mean that I would be good at it either.
To continue with this delightful analogy, I guess we could say that Hillary has at least driven a van (in the Senate and as Sec of State) and rode in the truck all the while Bill was in office. Trump by contrast has the equivalent experience of driving a pogo stick in his driveway. I'll take the driver who has experience behind the wheel and knows the rules of the road even if they've been pulled over in the past for speeding.

I have come to the conclusion that Trump is either mentally retarded or was suffering a stroke throughout the entirety of the debate. His inability to string together a coherent sentence is astounding.

Sadly, that fact didn't prevent someone else from getting elected not too long ago.
 
Sadly, that fact didn't prevent someone else from getting elected not too long ago.

I've been avoiding watching debates and state of the union addresses and other big policy speeches/proposals for years and always read the transcripts instead. Trump's ramblings are on a level I have never seen before.

On a slightly related note - I love, and have always loved, politics. But I came to the conclusion a couple cycles ago that it's not candidate A or party B that I love, it's the political process, the election apparatus, the polling numbers, surveys, demographic shifts, etc. that really interests me.
 
I have come to the conclusion that Trump is either mentally retarded

Interestingly, this is the same conclusion Zach Galifianakis came to regarding Trump. This is why he will not be featured on Between Two Ferns. He would feel like he was taking advantage of him. If you haven't seen the one with Clinton, it's worth a watch. She handled herself well, but no where near as great as Obama.
 
It is not just about this election. The more of the popular vote he gets, the more likely it will open up funding for future presidential elections, breaking the 2 party system. It is also a referendum on DC. Tell the WH and Congress that you are sick of politics as usual.

I don't have any pipe dreams that anyone other than Clinton will get elected. Trump stands zero chance of beating her. But it does not mean that people should vote for either of them. There is enough of the party status quo that that she will get elected, we will be screwed, but if her vote count is low enough, it might rattle enough people to realize that we as a society can do better.

Seriously, unless you think that they will do an awesome job, (which I could have further comments about, but that would result in me getting flagged for personal attacks), vote for someone else who won't get elected.

The pessimist side of me says voting third party won't send a message. Perot did great as a third party and no one got the message. For my own state I think voting democrat might send a message that this current governor and legislature are crap and it needs to change. Voting independent (or whoever) won't get that message across.

The optimist side of me hopes both parties look at this election and decide to rework how they do things. Start grooming a candidate who's worth a damn. FYI, Ted Cruz is not that candidate. Find someone new who isn't screwed up like the last 19-20 people who ran on the GOP ticket. On the Dem side, obviously you'll run Hill for full 8 years, but you can start looking for that ideal candidate now.
 
Concerning the debate and evaluating respective performances, when considering Trump I kept having flashbacks to the end scene of Bill & Teds Excellent Adventure where the football player is giving his 'oral report' right before Bill & Ted https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgAGkxAtzIg (I'm not getting sound but you remember where he's saying "it's like the, uh, future is, um going to be, um .....computers.....and, uhh.....................SAN DIMAS HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL RULES!!"
 
This just in...."I'll get great people" is not a plan.

It's not a plan, but in certain cases it might be a step in the right direction (although Trump's people will be similarly unqualified). We have people in appointed positions who know nothing about what the position actually deals with. I always point to Anthony Foxx, who has very little in the way of transportation expertise. In fact, the one time he did work for anything even remotely related to transportation (a hybrid bus manufacturer) they sued him for failure to do the work he was supposed to. In some cases, we get lucky and someone who honestly deserves the position and has experience gets put in place (Sally Jewell, Shaun Donovan, Ernest Moniz). Too often we get lawyers in cabinet positions, which is fine, but there's more to it than just knowing the law.

Too often, people expect the President to have the answers for everything, and neglect to realize that his advisers are truly the ones who makes a great presidency. Really, the role of the President is exactly that, to get the best people for the job.

That said, Trump is a complete dingbat. I am convinced that by the end of the election he will have referred to Clinton as a *female dog* during at least one debate.
 
The people at SNL are likely going to be angry that they can't create a skit to top the reality from last night.

It would be supremely funny if they just spliced together actual footage from the debate with no satirizing or anything. It would be the most avante guard thing they've done in a long time... basically implying that the reality is a satire. I'm pretty sure between the two candidates you can do an quick alternating cut-away from the debate footage at the end of the mash-up.

Live
From
New
York
Its
Saturday
Night

It would also be funny if they just replayed the entire 90 minutes with a note at the bottom that they simply couldn't come up with anything funnier.
 
Yes.... I know the story is from Fox News... but it is still funny. Well done His Majesty Grant... well done. It is always nice when someone is able to prove the absurdness of over PC rules.

LINK

The University of Michigan recently announced a new initiative to allow students to select their preferred gender pronouns through an online service.

It was designed as a way to help professors tell the difference between the guys and the gals and the zi's and the zir's.

"Asking about and correctly using someone's designated pronoun is one of the most basic ways to show your respect for their identity and to cultivate an environment that respects all gender identities," wrote Provost Martha Pollack in an email to students and faculty.

It's all part of the university's effort to foster an "environment of inclusiveness."

The university actually created a "pronoun committee" to ensure that faculty members "play a vital role in ensuring all of our community feels valued, respected and included."

It was in that spirit of inclusivity that Grant decided to have a bit of fun. He logged into the university's computer system, clicked on the "Gender Identity Tab" and promptly declared his new designated pronoun.

"You could put anything you wanted into the system," Grant told me. "So I did."

And so it was in the Year of Our Lord Two Thousand Sixteen that Grant Strobl came to be known as "His Majesty" – Noble Ruler of the Wolverines.




ARTICLE: He fought in World War II. He died in 2014. And he just registered to vote in Va.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...0bffee-8670-11e6-ac72-a29979381495_story.html

I wonder if dead people are more likely to vote for Trump or Clinton...
 
Which is the bigger deal: Trump potentially not paying taxes in almost 20 years? Or Trump losing almost a billion dollars in a single year?

And, will this actually impact any of his voters? I'm guessing not.
 
Which is the bigger deal: Trump potentially not paying taxes in almost 20 years? Or Trump losing almost a billion dollars in a single year?

And, will this actually impact any of his voters? I'm guessing not.

I take the billion dollar loss as the bigger problem. I don't think many big shots actually pay a lot of taxes, at least not their share. The loss makes it look like he's not the winner he thinks he is. Not that it will change the mind of his supporters. I think for them it's more about anti Hillary than pro Trump. So any anti Trump thing you say either doesn't matter or it's made up by the liberal media that supports Hillary. You know, those damn liberal papers like the Arizona Republic.
 
Which is the bigger deal: Trump potentially not paying taxes in almost 20 years? Or Trump losing almost a billion dollars in a single year?

And, will this actually impact any of his voters? I'm guessing not.

I take the billion dollar loss as the bigger problem. I don't think many big shots actually pay a lot of taxes, at least not their share. The loss makes it look like he's not the winner he thinks he is. Not that it will change the mind of his supporters. I think for them it's more about anti Hillary than pro Trump. So any anti Trump thing you say either doesn't matter or it's made up by the liberal media that supports Hillary. You know, those damn liberal papers like the Arizona Republic.

Meh, I'm sure he didn't actually lose the billion dollars, he simply put it somewhere that made it look like he did so he could qualify for the tax deductions. To be honest, I don't fault Trump for not paying the taxes, so long as he was doing it legally. Do I agree with it? Absolutely not, and the fact that such loopholes exist is disgusting. I would have to agree with him when he talks about how well he knows our tax system too. I still don't think it makes him fit to be the President though.

All of this is exactly the reason why he won't release his tax returns. It will show that A. he doesn't "make" as much as he says he does, and B. he doesn't pay taxes. He probably doesn't make anywhere near as much as he claims, but he's probably worth more than what his tax returns will say. It's a lose lose situation for him. If he releases them, he'll be blasted for points A and B above, if he doesn't, he'll get destroyed by the Clinton camp over not releasing them. Realistically, running for President was the single worst business decision he could have ever made. If he wins, he will basically have to hand the company reigns over to his family because he won't have the time to really be involved anymore. If he loses, all his "accomplishments" will get thrown out the window and he'll forever be known as that one guy who lost the presidency to the first female candidate elected by a major party. Make no mistake, Obama being the first African American President was history making, but it will certainly be eclipsed by Hillary being elected as the first female President.
 
Meh, I'm sure he didn't actually lose the billion dollars, he simply put it somewhere that made it look like he did so he could qualify for the tax deductions. To be honest, I don't fault Trump for not paying the taxes, so long as he was doing it legally. Do I agree with it? Absolutely not, and the fact that such loopholes exist is disgusting. I would have to agree with him when he talks about how well he knows our tax system too. I still don't think it makes him fit to be the President though.

Yes, I really don't fault him for the tax loops. If I were in his income bracket I would expect to take advantage of the system myself, but I'm not.

I think the problem isn't so much with his taxes, but with the mingling of his finances. I'm no expert, but I would expect a typical billionaire would set it up like:
A: Bill Gates family personal income paid by that microsoft place.
B: Microsoft financial statements.
C: Charity for Bill Gates and other tax loop hole accounts
D: Charity for Microsoft and other tax loop holes.

Two completely separate identifies.

I think Trump is more like:
A: The Don's income + Trump industries income + business charity accounts (we all know The Don doesn't do charity)

At least that's the way he portrays it. I'm sure the accountants have multiple loop hole accounts.
 
Yes, I really don't fault him for the tax loops. If I were in his income bracket I would expect to take advantage of the system myself, but I'm not.

I think the problem isn't so much with his taxes, but with the mingling of his finances. I'm no expert, but I would expect a typical billionaire would set it up like:
A: Bill Gates family personal income paid by that microsoft place.
B: Microsoft financial statements.
C: Charity for Bill Gates and other tax loop hole accounts
D: Charity for Microsoft and other tax loop holes.

Two completely separate identifies.

I think Trump is more like:
A: The Don's income + Trump industries income + business charity accounts (we all know The Don doesn't do charity)

At least that's the way he portrays it. I'm sure the accountants have multiple loop hole accounts.

Additionally, can anyone honestly tell me that the Clinton's don't take advantage of every possible tax loophole?

(Still not voting for Trump or Clinton... just pointing out that it is the pot calling the kettle back)
 
Additionally, can anyone honestly tell me that the Clinton's don't take advantage of every possible tax loophole?

(Still not voting for Trump or Clinton... just pointing out that it is the pot calling the kettle back)

I'm not going to argue that he did anything wrong or illegal. I'm sure they do, too. They did release their tax returns a while back. Trump obviously has something to lose by doing so. And if the reason he's not paying taxes is because he's incurring major business losses, that's pretty telling.
 
Hmmm

Additionally, can anyone honestly tell me that the Clinton's don't take advantage of every possible tax loophole?

(Still not voting for Trump or Clinton... just pointing out that it is the pot calling the kettle back)

Agreed....both parties serve the filthy rich healthy tax breaks and incentives.....but one party makes it their bread and butter issue....nay, the cornerstone of their economic policy and claims (with a straight face) that those tax breaks help the other 99% = False Equivalency Again
 
Agreed....both parties serve the filthy rich healthy tax breaks and incentives.....but one party makes it their bread and butter issue....nay, the cornerstone of their economic policy and claims (with a straight face) that those tax breaks help the other 99% = False Equivalency Again

True, and the other comes from a long history of saying that their actions will help the lower and the middle class, but the results show the rich get richer and the middle class get eliminated. They have different narratives but the end result is the same. The wealthy control both parties. The past 16 years are a perfect example of that.

Neither the R or the D is going to make a positive difference in your life. Heck I am not even sure if the L will do any good either, but I believe that they will do less harm than the R or D.

I'm not going to argue that he did anything wrong or illegal. I'm sure they do, too. They did release their tax returns a while back. Trump obviously has something to lose by doing so. And if the reason he's not paying taxes is because he's incurring major business losses, that's pretty telling.

I am sure your right. But then again, not releasing your tax returns is not illegal. Stupid yes, but not illegal. Both Trump and Clinton have a long history of shady deals and illegal connections. It is like comparing the dagger to the sword. One is more elegant and polished than the other, but they will both kill you just the same.
 
I think one of the problems with Trump not releasing his tax returns is that he promised, early on after announcing his candidacy, that he would release them if he were to become the nominee. He now refuses to release them. He lied.

I don't think he's scared that it would show he paid as little in taxes as legally possible. I think his tax returns would likely demonstrate that he has financial ties and investments in Russia, while he has repeatedly said he does not have such ties. His returns would also show he lies about how much he personally gives to charity and that he lies about how much he makes each year showing that he isn't as successful of a businessman as he claims to be.

It's also come to light that for some time now his foundation has been operating illegally in NY by failing to file the proper paperwork and thus avoiding the required public audits... the audits that would have undoubtedly discovered that Trump has been illegally using his foundation as his own personal piggy bank.

As for was he being smart by using his $916 million net operating loss to possibly avoid paying taxes for the next 18 years? Sure, if he incurred that $916 million NOL entirely through depreciation of his assets. However, the records show that he incurred that loss by running an airline and a couple casinos into the ground and by making an ill-timed purchase of an NYC hotel at an inflated price.
 
I think one of the problems with Trump not releasing his tax returns is that he promised, early on after announcing his candidacy, that he would release them if he were to become the nominee. He now refuses to release them. He lied.

I don't think he's scared that it would show he paid as little in taxes as legally possible. I think his tax returns would likely demonstrate that he has financial ties and investments in Russia, while he has repeatedly said he does not have such ties. His returns would also show he lies about how much he personally gives to charity and that he lies about how much he makes each year showing that he isn't as successful of a businessman as he claims to be.

It's also come to light that for some time now his foundation has been operating illegally in NY by failing to file the proper paperwork and thus avoiding the required public audits... the audits that would have undoubtedly discovered that Trump has been illegally using his foundation as his own personal piggy bank.

As for was he being smart by using his $916 million net operating loss to possibly avoid paying taxes for the next 18 years? Sure, if he incurred that $916 million NOL entirely through depreciation of his assets. However, the records show that he incurred that loss by running an airline and a couple casinos into the ground and by making an ill-timed purchase of an NYC hotel at an inflated price.

He lied... yep. Zero question about that. Has Trump done illegal things in the past? I personally think he has. So don't vote for him.

Do you think Hillary has lied? Once again, zero question about it. Has she done illegal things in the past, according to the FBI she has, and I would bet the body count is related to her. There is also tons of speculation regarding the Clinton Foundation and it's activities. So don't vote for her!
 
Hmmm.....

True, and the other comes from a long history of saying that their actions will help the lower and the middle class, but the results show the rich get richer and the middle class get eliminated. They have different narratives but the end result is the same. The wealthy control both parties. The past 16 years are a perfect example of that.
Neither the R or the D is going to make a positive difference in your life. Heck I am not even sure if the L will do any good either, but I believe that they will do less harm than the R or D.

FDR and all of the social safety net programs, Unions that created the middle class in the first place, the minimum wage increases.....the recent history is crap, the Dems just need to grow a pair and right the ship (thanks Bernie). If they don't, I may vote for a pothead like Johnson in 4 years, even though he doesn't think we should pay for roads that aren't our personal driveway.
 
"Grab them by the p----. You can do anything."

It's beyond the scope of my imagination how anybody could vote for this scum. (Sorry, scum. Didn't mean to insult you.)

Two of my division managers are attending his rally on Tuesday.
 
My God, what a race to the bottom. I think this next debate is going to be a shit show like we've never seen before.
 
Ok, they need to put Gary Johnson on stage for the debate. I think that Johnson has a better chance than Trump has at this point...

Trump is a insult to humanity.
 
Back
Top