• Cyburbia is a friendly big tent, where we share our experiences and thoughts about urban planning practice, the built environment, planning adjacent topics, and anything else that comes to mind. No ads, no spam, and it's free. It's easy to join!

NEVERENDING ♾️ The NEVERENDING Political Discussion Thread

One thought I've had about the protests yesterday is that I see a lot of questions in the media and on social media about why the rioters yesterday were not met with the same show of force from the police as the largely peaceful BLM protests in the summer and calls for those in DC to be met with tear gas and rubber bullets and knees to the back. Instead of wanting those turds to be tear gassed or met with violence, shouldn't we be instead holding this response up as an example of how police should behave at other protests?

(And yes, I also agree that the protests never should have gotten to this point and it does appear that the Capitol Police and the DC police were ill prepared for yesterday's events.)
 
mendelman said:
Actually it's convicted or just simply formally accused. But it'll probably be 2+ weeks before any of these terrorists' names get released.
Click to expand...
The guy carrying off the speaker's podium, face fully exposed, grinning and waving at the photographer, has been IDed. None of these loonies seems the least bit shy about being in a photo.

Oh look, the local paper did an article about him.

 
Last edited:
Veloise said:
The guy carrying off the speaker's podium, face fully exposed, grinning and waving at the photographer, has been IDed. None of these loonies seems the least bit shy about being in a photo.
Click to expand...
Good, but I hope this doesn't turn into a pardoning.
 
tRump has a busy day planned:

A day after the Capitol riot, Trump's schedule includes giving the Medal of Freedom to golfers​

From CNN's Betsy Klein

President Trump on Thursday will return his focus to the trappings of office on Thursday, one day after a mob of his supporters breached the US Capitol and the 2020 presidential election has been certified for Joe Biden.
He is expected to award the Presidential Medal of Freedom to golfers Annika Sorenstam and Gary Player, as well as Olympic athlete Babe Zaharias, a White House official told CNN.
With 13 days left in office, the White House has been inundated with requests for the Medal of Freedom, the nation’s highest civilian honor. Thursday’s presentation was not listed on Trump’s public schedule, which instead said Trump would have “many meetings” and “many calls.”
Earlier this week, Trump bestowed the Medal of Freedom upon Rep. Devin Nunes, and is expected to honor Rep. Jim Jordan. Trump is also considering granting the Medal of Freedom to Bobby Bowden, the retired Florida State University football coach.
 
I am interested to see how many or if the tRump signs & flags at various houses in the area will come down. This morning on my way to work, the usual suspects were still out.
 
Why would they take them down? They are no doubt just as devoted as they always were. They look at these events through a different lens; they see the assault on the Capitol yesterday in heroic terms.
 
Doohickie said:
Why would they take them down? They are no doubt just as devoted as they always were. They look at these events through a different lens; they see the assault on the Capitol yesterday in heroic terms.
Click to expand...

No I get that, but I also get that to some people, there was a breaking point.
 
Elaine Chao (McConnell's wife) is resigning her Secretary of Transportation post.

I doubt that Betsy will, not that she's doing anything anyway

EDIT: I am delighted to have been proven wrong!
 
Last edited:
Planit said:
No I get that, but I also get that to some people, there was a breaking point.
Click to expand...

For the Trump followers, it was an act of 'patriotism.' I think more moderate Republicans who were on the fence before probably recognized the monster that has been created, but most of the annoying right wing pundits have stayed the course with the 'stop the steal' narrative, and while some did condemn the events, they also kept crying a whataboutism for liberals.
 
Veloise said:
Elaine Chao (McConnell's wife) is resigning her Secretary of Transportation post.

I doubt that Betsy will, not that she's doing anything anyway
Click to expand...

I wonder if perhaps there is talk of evoking the 25th, leaving before that happens gives her and Mitch some cover for the future. it is interesting to see a number of positions leaving now, noting that their resignations are due to yesterdays events.
 
The aftermath headlines are just as F'ing crazy

Capitol rioting prompts American Airlines to stop serving alcohol on flights to, from DC​

www.foxnews.com

Capitol rioting prompts American Airlines to stop serving alcohol on flights to, from DC

American Airlines has reportedly suspended liquor sales on flights in and out of Washington, D.C.
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com

Man who posed at Pelosi desk said in Facebook post that he is prepared for violent death​

'QAnon Shaman' Who Stormed Capitol Denies He Is Antifa as Conspiracy Theorists Turn on Him​

www.newsweek.com

'QAnon Shaman' Who Stormed Capitol Denies He Is Antifa

Jake Angeli has been spotted at a number of right-wing protests showing support for QAnon and wearing his horned hat.
www.newsweek.com www.newsweek.com
 
Dan said:
Same thing here. As if George Soros, Bill Gates, Hillary Clinton, Greta Thunberg, the Rothchilds, the ghost of Oogo Chavez, AOC, BLM, WHO, and of course, the Jeeeeeeeeeews, put out a casting call for 50,000 ZZ Top impersonators and RAM 3500 owners to protest the Electoral College vote tally, all expenses paid, camo and Confederate flags provided.
Click to expand...
You forgot mullet wearing trans-am drivers.
 
dw914er said:
I wonder if perhaps there is talk of evoking the 25th, leaving before that happens gives her and Mitch some cover for the future. it is interesting to see a number of positions leaving now, noting that their resignations are due to yesterdays events.
Click to expand...
An interesting take. Perhaps the cabinet members who are leaving don't want to say they are anti-Trump and don't want to admit they are pro-Trump so they're just leaving. Maybe the means the ones staying on are more likely to vote to remove?
 
Doohickie said:
An interesting take. Perhaps the cabinet members who are leaving don't want to say they are anti-Trump and don't want to admit they are pro-Trump so they're just leaving. Maybe the means the ones staying on are more likely to vote to remove?
Click to expand...

I guess my take is the opposite of yours. I figure that if cabinet members are taking the 25th Amendment into consideration while making their resignation decisions they are probably doing so because they would want to vote to remove but they worry too much about their future careers and the Republican base would say/do. Those that stick around are likely to be more loyal to Trump.

My bet though is that the 25th Amendment didn't play much into Chao's decision and it was more personal and about what she saw happening to her husband and his colleagues. If a bunch more cabinet members haven't already resigned over this by the time I finish typing this post, they're not going to.

gtpeach said:
If the 25th Amendment was invoked, would Trump be able to run again for office?
Click to expand...

Yes. It's been invoked before when VPs have had to take over while presidents were incapacitated during medical procedures. Dick Cheney was acting president in '02 and Bush was able to run again in '04.
 
Planit said:
I am interested to see how many or if the tRump signs & flags at various houses in the area will come down. This morning on my way to work, the usual suspects were still out.
Click to expand...
They won't come down. If fact, I speculate that many who took their signs down in November will now put them back out. I don't think they will ever come down and you will be assaulted by the sight of these signs wherever you go.
 
Terrorists 10-06-2.jpg
 
Last edited:
WSU MUP Student said:
I guess my take is the opposite of yours. I figure that if cabinet members are taking the 25th Amendment into consideration while making their resignation decisions they are probably doing so because they would want to vote to remove but they worry too much about their future careers and the Republican base would say/do. Those that stick around are likely to be more loyal to Trump.

My bet though is that the 25th Amendment didn't play much into Chao's decision and it was more personal and about what she saw happening to her husband and his colleagues. If a bunch more cabinet members haven't already resigned over this by the time I finish typing this post, they're not going to.



Yes. It's been invoked before when VPs have had to take over while presidents were incapacitated during medical procedures. Dick Cheney was acting president in '02 and Bush was able to run again in '04.
Click to expand...
I knew that from watching The West Wing.
 
michaelskis said:
I am sorry, but the comparison is more than a little ridiculous. One group flew planes into buildings to kill as many people as possible, the other used force to occupy a building.

I don’t support anything they did yesterday, but this was not even remotely on the same level as 9/11.
Click to expand...

There were just 19 9/11 Hijackers. I wonder how many thousands of domestic terrorists descended on the Capitol. Have you even seen what these thugs look like?

They are all domestic terrorists and must be treated as such, with the most severe punishment for these acts of terror and insurrection when they are tried and convicted. They are worse than the 9/11 terrorists, because this terror is from within. And there are literally tens of thousands of them, with millions more either "waiting in the wings", amplifying violence on social media, or funding trips to DC and state capitols. (I just heard that a lot of Michiganders that attended these riots were actually funded by GOP respresentatives at the state and county level). And they could attack again at any time, well beyond January 20th.

In fact, as I write this, there is already chatter about another attack on or before Inauguration Day.
 
Super Amputee Cat said:
There were just 19 9/11 Hijackers. I wonder how many thousands of domestic terrorists descended on the Capitol. Have you even seen what these thugs look like?

They are all domestic terrorists and must be treated as such, with the most severe punishment for these acts of terror and insurrection when they are tried and convicted. They are worse than the 9/11 terrorists, because this terror is from within. And there are literally tens of thousands of them, with millions more either "waiting in the wings", amplifying violence on social media, or funding trips to DC and state capitols. (I just heard that a lot of Michiganders that attended these riots were actually funded by GOP respresentatives at the state and county level). And they could attack again at any time, well beyond January 20th.

In fact, as I write this, there is already chatter about another attack on or before Inauguration Day.
Click to expand...
I don’t disagree that they are domestic terrorists, but they are not the same. It is like saying a Ferrari California and Ford Escort Station Wagon are the same because they are both cars.

9/11 killed thousands and caused 40 billion in insurance losses and stopped the US for days.

What happened yesterday resulted in 4 deaths and a few thousand dollars in damage. There is zero question that what they did was a form of terrorism, but to indicate that the two are comparable is dishonoring the impact of 9/11 and is disgraceful.
 

Betsy DeVos, education secretary, is second cabinet member to resign.​

www.nytimes.com

Betsy DeVos, education secretary, is the second cabinet member to resign.

In a letter to President Trump Ms. DeVos said, “we are left to clean up the mess caused by violent protesters overrunning the U.S. Capitol in an attempt to undermine the people’s business.”
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

“Instead, we are left to clean up the mess caused by violent protesters overrunning the U.S. Capitol in an attempt to undermine the people’s business.”

“That behavior was unconscionable for our country,” she added. “There is no mistaking the impact your rhetoric had on the situation, and it is the inflection point for me.”
Click to expand...
 
michaelskis said:
I don’t disagree that they are domestic terrorists, but they are not the same. It is like saying a Ferrari California and Ford Escort Station Wagon are the same because they are both cars.

9/11 killed thousands and caused 40 billion in insurance losses and stopped the US for days.

What happened yesterday resulted in 4 deaths and a few thousand dollars in damage. There is zero question that what they did was a form of terrorism, but to indicate that the two are comparable is dishonoring the impact of 9/11 and is disgraceful.
Click to expand...

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. I did not mean to say that the events yesterday was anything like 9/11. But the terrorists themselves are far worse by their sheer numbers alone and the fact that, as I stated before, the terror is from within.

You are right, 9/11 is the worst single attack on the U.S. and nothing will hopefully ever equal it. But what about dozens, if not hundreds of smaller attacks by guns and bombs over a period of years? The kind of attacks that we saw yesterday can occur at any time and anywhere. With hundreds of thousands of foaming, gun-toting MAGAs on the loose throughout the country, who knows what kind of carnage they can inflict in the coming days, the coming weeks, and the coming years.

And I might add, the context is much worse now than in 2001. This nation is a much more divided place now, whereas back then the country was pretty much united after the attacks. And we didn't have a pandemic that has further emboldened the far right who if they don't kill us with guns and bombs will certainly kill us by their Superspreader events.

While these terrorist Trump supporters may not be able to fly planes in to buildings they can certainly use high-powered guns, explosives, etc to kill and maim as many people as possible, perhaps up to dozens at a time. It's like death by 1000 cuts. Except that's even an underestimate because there are millions of MAGAs. And with our insane president fanning the flames with his relentless insidious and seditious rhetoric, and dozens of right-wing websites inciting even more violence and plots to overthrow the government, the overall carnage will be worse than 9/11 if something isn't done to stop these traitors in the next 13 days.

Again, I did not mean to downplay the terrible tragedy of 9/11 in any way but I will stand by my assertion that these domestic terrorists are far worse than anything seen in on 9/11 by their sheer numbers alone and by the platforms they can now use with impunity to inflict the maximum amount of carnage in the minimum amount of time.
 
WSU MUP Student said:
Yes. It's been invoked before when VPs have had to take over while presidents were incapacitated during medical procedures. Dick Cheney was acting president in '02 and Bush was able to run again in '04.
Click to expand...
Right, but that was for very limited, specific, pre-planned things that they recovered from. There's no expectation that Trump would recover from the reasons that the 25th Amendment had to be invoked.

Whatever happens, I hope it results in Trump being permanently excluded from being able to run for political office again. I haven't read this, but have heard from others that if he pardons himself, it's likely that would preclude him from being able to run again. I want him held accountable, and I think we're all unclear on whether or not he would actually be able to pardon himself, but it would be nice to know that he's unable to be elected again at that point.
 
“We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be”

Mother Night - Vonnegut
 
JNA said:
Consequences
If not criminal, there is economic & public shaming
Click to expand...
Which, according to this article in the NYT, is exactly the correct response.

But, he said, treating Wednesday’s attack, and Mr. Trump’s support of it, with the "ridicule and umbrage it deserves" is a way to undermine any suggestion of legitimacy or authority.
Click to expand...

www.nytimes.com

It Wasn’t Strictly a Coup Attempt. But It’s Not Over, Either.

Experts say recent actions by President Trump and his loyalists are harder to stop than a coup — citing anti-democratic slides in Turkey and Venezuela as closer examples.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
 
JNA said:
Consequences
If not criminal, there is economic & public shaming


People at the US Capitol riot are being identified and losing their jobs​

www.cnn.com

People at the US Capitol riot are being identified and losing their jobs

At least three men have lost their jobs as a result of their involvement in the unrest at the US Capitol Wednesday.
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com
Click to expand...
Funny article.

www.wonkette.com

Idaho Dingus Who Stormed US Capitol Has Regrets, Lawyer

Now singing the Very Sorry Song.
www.wonkette.com www.wonkette.com

A complete gallery

 
Seriously tho.. this is what some of those 75 million voters think.. utterly disgusting
welovetrump.com

Decoding President Trump's Announcement Given January 7, 2021

This was just posted by President Trump. Watch: And I want to break down my first few thoughts after listening to it. First, is this a concession speech? Trending: Here’s What The Insurrection Act Really Means and Why Martial Law Is The Only Way [From Noah] President Trump has clearly said on...
welovetrump.com welovetrump.com
 
Wow, the hypocrisy is everywhere. A friend of mine who posted support of all the riots this summer posted on their Facebook page outrage that Trump supporters would resort to violence and rioting and that liberals would never do such a thing.

Between COVID and a complete breakdown in civility and personal responsibility, I am starting to question if this is the end of days or something.
 
michaelskis said:
Wow, the hypocrisy is everywhere. A friend of mine who posted support of all the riots this summer posted on their Facebook page outrage that Trump supporters would resort to violence and rioting and that liberals would never do such a thing.

Between COVID and a complete breakdown in civility and personal responsibility, I am starting to question if this is the end of days or something.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't go out on a limb and say I "supported" riots and looting, but as a POC, I totally get the anger. Also as a POC, the difference between Wednesday and last summer's police "presence" is most certainly stunning. Can't really tell which way was the "white" way.
 
Did your friend really support the riots? Or, did they support the thousands of peaceful protests that happened because of white supremacy and systemic racism? There’s a difference, and your words matter. Somehow, I doubt you are friends with rioters or riot adjacent people.

Also, trump supporters weren’t resorting to violence and rioting: they were seditionist traitors who seized The Capitol and tried to overthrow the government or at least prevent it from doing its legal busines. Big, big difference.
 
Maybe I need a civics lesson here, but the one thing I don't understand here is that why doesn't Pence, if only out of sheer selfishness and his own ego, go along with the removal effort so he can become the de facto 46the President of the United States, if only for 10 days? Then the party could claim they had two GOP presidents in a row and Biden would be relegated to being 47th.
 
Super Amputee Cat said:
Maybe I need a civics lesson here, but the one thing I don't understand here is that why doesn't Pence, if only out of sheer selfishness and his own ego, go along with the removal effort so he can become the de facto 46the President of the United States, if only for 10 days? Then the party could claim they had two GOP presidents in a row and Biden would be relegated to being 47th.
Click to expand...
Because there are still GOP members who support 45, and they'd be upset with him.
Also, those crazed seditionists with their weapons, fur hats, and zip ties. They came looking for Pence at one point.
Remember how after that first impeachment, several MoC stated that 45 had "learned his lesson" and would behave differently? I'm sure they think, "nah, he wouldn't send a bomb over to [country] and he wouldn't try to declare war. What can go wR0nG in 12 days??"
 
michaelskis said:
Wow, the hypocrisy is everywhere. A friend of mine who posted support of all the riots this summer posted on their Facebook page outrage that Trump supporters would resort to violence and rioting and that liberals would never do such a thing.
Click to expand...
Hmmm....

There is NO equivalency between protests against police use of excessive force, and a mob intent on overthrowing a legitimately elected government. If you think there is, you're seriously f*@(ed in the head.
 
I'm trying to come up with a snarky line about how so many Canadians look down on the United States, and define their country only by how it's not like the US. I'm failing at this simple task. Kind of like the Maple Leafs.

 
Back
Top