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NEVERENDING ♾️ The NEVERENDING Political Discussion Thread

bureaucrat#3 said:
They're in a tough spot, but I'd also be worried if I were her about new ACA premiums. We're expecting five more rural hospitals to close if they take affect.
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And a CR would not change the past premiums. That would be with a new budget. But it feels like the Democrats want the American people to feel pain so they can blame it on Trump and this administration. There are enough things to blame Trump on. An actual approved budget can be one, but the Democrat Party is just playing games with the lack of a CR.
 
[OT]It is officially named the Democratic Party, not the Democrat Party. Using the incorrect name, innocently or not, is insulting. Using someone's proper name is the barest minimum civility expects. Without that simple courtesy, it's hard to imagine earning trust on more complex negotiations.[/OT]

We have a president that refuses to spend money appropriated by congress. We have a president that clearly operates extra-constitutionally (see, for example TikTok) and clearly has an expansive view of his powers. We have a congressional majority that stands by and shrugs, while its leadership refuses to reconvene the house because leadership can't whip them into loyalty (see for example Epstein files/Rep. Grijalva). /we have a court majority that clearly subscribes to the idea of a unitary executive. Our republic is slipping away piece by piece and somehow the opposition party is to blame for taking a stand for the people?

As for me and my family, we don't think so.
 
michaelskis said:
And a CR would not change the past premiums. That would be with a new budget. But it feels like the Democrats want the American people to feel pain so they can blame it on Trump and this administration. There are enough things to blame Trump on. An actual approved budget can be one, but the Democrat Party is just playing games with the lack of a CR.
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You keep blaming it on the democrats like there isn't another party that started all this crap. Personally, I blame all the politicians for not doing their job and representing the people, but mostly the republicans.
 
The Dems agreed to a CR back in the spring to keep the government going and then the Trump and the Executive Branch promptly refused to actually follow through with the funding and the programs that Congress passed the bill to appropriate. These "pocket recissions" by the Executive Branch are generally considered illegal but Congress cannot/will not do anything about it because Johnson refuses to even allow any sort of debate on the topic since the Rs control what makes it to the House floor. Cases will work their way through the courts regarding pocket recissions and Trump's failure to appropriate the funds that Congress has mandated but that will be a slow process and even if the courts don't just bow down to the Trump administration, it will be too little too late. The damage will be done.

As painful as it is to see SNAP benefits pause or end (or whatever program somebody wants to pick as their hill to die on), I don't see how the Dems can agree to pass a CR with the promise that the Rs or Trump will agree to work out some sort of deal for funding in the future. They've shown they cannot be trusted to actually follow through on funding they've already agreed to.

Dems have been hammering that the shut down is primarily about Medicaid subsidies and that's all well and good but I think a lot more of it is about standing up to the Rs and the Trump Administration riding roughshod over congressionally mandated spending and programs that the funds were already appropriated. However, that's a much more difficult concept to for them to message and communicate about.
 
1761579873955.png
 
DVD said:
You keep blaming it on the democrats like there isn't another party that started all this crap. Personally, I blame all the politicians for not doing their job and representing the people, but mostly the republicans.
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Tell me why you think that Republicans are to blame instead of Democrats for the Government continuing to be shut down. You say that is what you personally believe, and I would like to know why.
 
^^^Republicans have said - let's do a CR then we'll talk about health care - but that talk never comes.
Dems are just playing hardball like the Rs have done repeatedly & broken promises.
 
Gedunker said:
[OT]It is officially named the Democratic Party, not the Democrat Party. Using the incorrect name, innocently or not, is insulting. Using someone's proper name is the barest minimum civility expects. Without that simple courtesy, it's hard to imagine earning trust on more complex negotiations.[/OT]
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{On Topic}This plainly suggests a weird off-putting smugness, or a self-own of crybaby syndrome, especially on discussion boards where typos are ubiquitous and easily understood, as well as a place where varying degrees of educational attainment and deployment of linguistic prowess are innate to its functioning. D or R, we all know what is meant by the Democrats or the Democrats party, the democratic party, the party of the people.{/OT]
 
Planit said:
^^^Republicans have said - let's do a CR then we'll talk about health care - but that talk never comes.
Dems are just playing hardball like the Rs have done repeatedly & broken promises.
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One of the bigger problems now is that the administration feels it can use a pocket recission even if a deal is made. There is almost no possibility of a good faith negotiations.
 
We need to get rid of the filibuster in the Senate...but, like the Electoral College, both sides like it too much when they want it.
 
Planit said:
^^^Republicans have said - let's do a CR then we'll talk about health care - but that talk never comes.
Dems are just playing hardball like the Rs have done repeatedly & broken promises.
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There hasn't been a CR, there hasn't been debate, and the Democrats have threatened a filibuster unless they get everything they want. It's not playing hardball, it is holding the most vulnerable in this country hostage as political pawns.

Gedunker said:
[OT]It is officially named the Democratic Party, not the Democrat Party. Using the incorrect name, innocently or not, is insulting. Using someone's proper name is the barest minimum civility expects. Without that simple courtesy, it's hard to imagine earning trust on more complex negotiations.[/OT]
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I apologize. With a website like Democrats.org, I didn't think it would be so offensive. But hey, if this is a card in your argument, play it.
 
michaelskis said:
Tell me why you think that Republicans are to blame instead of Democrats for the Government continuing to be shut down. You say that is what you personally believe, and I would like to know why.
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I'll start with what MD Planner said. All assholes. Do your damn job.
I was going to start with the fact that my state is not 100% represented as we are still waiting for our congresswoman to be sworn in. She's not my district, but remember that whole being represented part. A large portion of Arizona is not. Why? The GOP refuses to sit and do their job. Back to MD's point, assholes.

Why is it the GOP fault? They have the majority. You're telling me their idea isn't good enough to sway - I think someone said 7 votes. It does take two sides, but the Dems have compromised much more often than the GOP. I'm glad they're drawing the line somewhere and that somewhere is public health and not immigration or the other distraction things the GOP likes to point at and do nothing about.

The big ticket item, military pay, was done by the Pres. not congress. I don't think the Pres has the power to do that. Doesn't the power of the purse belong to congress. Now that the big item is off the table, the GOP can sit on their hands and not offend their voters.

Of course it's also those damn liberals holding things up for um...health care? Who wants that.

Generally I'm also not going to side with any of the GOP because I'm holding them all accountable for not doing their job and not doing the right thing over and over in the past many years. The president does unconstitutional stuff. Meh. It's fine. The president is a criminal. Meh it's fine. Tourists were punching cops. Meh. A confederate flag was in my capital building. Meh. The list of things that the GOP doesn't stand up for is endless. I'll stand with the Dems even if they don't aways represent me. Although back to MDs point, all assholes. The Dems aren't 100% innocent either, but at least they're trying.
 
DVD said:
I'll start with what MD Planner said. All assholes. Do your damn job.
I was going to start with the fact that my state is not 100% represented as we are still waiting for our congresswoman to be sworn in. She's not my district, but remember that whole being represented part. A large portion of Arizona is not. Why? The GOP refuses to sit and do their job. Back to MD's point, assholes.

Why is it the GOP fault? They have the majority. You're telling me their idea isn't good enough to sway - I think someone said 7 votes. It does take two sides, but the Dems have compromised much more often than the GOP. I'm glad they're drawing the line somewhere and that somewhere is public health and not immigration or the other distraction things the GOP likes to point at and do nothing about.

The big ticket item, military pay, was done by the Pres. not congress. I don't think the Pres has the power to do that. Doesn't the power of the purse belong to congress. Now that the big item is off the table, the GOP can sit on their hands and not offend their voters.

Of course it's also those damn liberals holding things up for um...health care? Who wants that.

Generally I'm also not going to side with any of the GOP because I'm holding them all accountable for not doing their job and not doing the right thing over and over in the past many years. The president does unconstitutional stuff. Meh. It's fine. The president is a criminal. Meh it's fine. Tourists were punching cops. Meh. A confederate flag was in my capital building. Meh. The list of things that the GOP doesn't stand up for is endless. I'll stand with the Dems even if they don't aways represent me. Although back to MDs point, all assholes. The Dems aren't 100% innocent either, but at least they're trying.
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Everything you said regarding a new budget is 100% correct.

But the CR changed nothing. It did not decrease ACA, it did not increase the military budget... but only 2 democrats and one independent senator was willing to move it forward. Rand Paul also voted against it, but he is a tool.

So I ask you again, how is the lack of an approved CR, which only continues the existing budget while they work out the other stuff for a new budget, the Republicans fault when it is the Democrats who voted against it?
 
michaelskis said:
Everything you said regarding a new budget is 100% correct.

But the CR changed nothing. It did not decrease ACA, it did not increase the military budget... but only 2 democrats and one independent senator was willing to move it forward. Rand Paul also voted against it, but he is a tool.

So I ask you again, how is the lack of an approved CR, which only continues the existing budget while they work out the other stuff for a new budget, the Republicans fault when it is the Democrats who voted against it?
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If you look at a CR as just a CR and continuing the old budget then you're right, the Dems are holding it up, but it's never just continuing the old budget. It's an opportunity to address concerns and with the GOP playing all or nothing on damn near every issue you've got to hold the line somewhere. Do you think the GOP run house and senate will give in during budget talks later? Nope. I mean these are the same people who just held off voting on a supreme court justice because they could and didn't want Obama to appoint one. These are the same people who didn't want to impeach a president because the courts will take care of it and still the same people who won't meet and let my states representative get sworn in.

I do think we should lock them all in a room until an agreement is made. This is punishing poor people everywhere over political crap. Aww...you don't get to go home and see your family because you have to work until you come up with a deal...so sad. Grandma doesn't get her medication because you wanted to go home for the week.
 
DVD said:
If you look at a CR as just a CR and continuing the old budget then you're right, the Dems are holding it up, but it's never just continuing the old budget. It's an opportunity to address concerns and with the GOP playing all or nothing on damn near every issue you've got to hold the line somewhere. Do you think the GOP run house and senate will give in during budget talks later? Nope. I mean these are the same people who just held off voting on a supreme court justice because they could and didn't want Obama to appoint one. These are the same people who didn't want to impeach a president because the courts will take care of it and still the same people who won't meet and let my states representative get sworn in.

I do think we should lock them all in a room until an agreement is made. This is punishing poor people everywhere over political crap. Aww...you don't get to go home and see your family because you have to work until you come up with a deal...so sad. Grandma doesn't get her medication because you wanted to go home for the week.
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Right now, families are panicking because SNAP won't be available in many places next week, whereas the CR would have continued those payments and really was only continuing the old budget until they can get the new budget in place. The GOP put forth a CR that was just that, a Continuing Resolution and the bill extends several expiring programs and authorities, including:
  • several public health, Medicare, and Medicaid authorities and programs;
  • various programs and authorities related to veterans;
  • the U.S. Grain Standards Act;
  • the Department of Agriculture livestock mandatory price reporting program;
  • several Department of Homeland Security (DHS) programs related to cybersecurity;
  • authorities for DHS and the Department of Justice to take actions to mitigate a credible threat from an unmanned aircraft system;
  • the special assessment on nonindigent persons or entities convicted of certain offenses involving sexual abuse or human trafficking;
  • authorities related to the Commodity Futures Trading Commission whistleblower program; and
  • the Defense Production Act of 1950.
All but two Democrats voted NO.

These were all policies that were set to expire at the end of this FFY, but would continue because it was a CR.

I think the GOP is being unreasonable with the new budget, but that is not what the CR was. The Democrats know it, and if they don't they should not be in office. The CR would have kept things going and kept the resources available to the most vulnerable populations. But the Democrats said no because they are the ones who are playing all or nothing.

In regards, to the other stuff, you are completely correct, but to a single mother who is trying to figure out how to feed her newborn, all of that other stuff does not matter when she can't get formula for her baby.
 
"Senate Democrats on Tuesday blocked Republicans’ 13th attempt to reopen the government after having nearly a week to mull their options — and with a series of pressure-point deadlines rapidly closing in.
On the 28th day of the shutdown, Senate Majority Leader John Thune, R-S.D., tried to advance the House-passed continuing resolution (CR) and was again foiled by Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., and the Democratic caucus."

www.foxnews.com

Schumer again blocks GOP bid to reopen government as air traffic controllers go unpaid

Government shutdown enters Day 28, with Senate Democrats rejecting House-passed bill while federal workers face missed paychecks and nutrition benefits head for cliff.
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com

13.... the Republicans have pushed 13 times for Continuing Resolutions to reopen the government, and the Democrats continue to block them.
 
michaelskis said:
Right now, families are panicking because SNAP won't be available in many places next week, whereas the CR would have continued those payments and really was only continuing the old budget until they can get the new budget in place. The GOP put forth a CR that was just that, a Continuing Resolution and the bill extends several expiring programs and authorities, including:
  • several public health, Medicare, and Medicaid authorities and programs;
  • various programs and authorities related to veterans;
  • the U.S. Grain Standards Act;
  • the Department of Agriculture livestock mandatory price reporting program;
  • several Department of Homeland Security (DHS) programs related to cybersecurity;
  • authorities for DHS and the Department of Justice to take actions to mitigate a credible threat from an unmanned aircraft system;
  • the special assessment on nonindigent persons or entities convicted of certain offenses involving sexual abuse or human trafficking;
  • authorities related to the Commodity Futures Trading Commission whistleblower program; and
  • the Defense Production Act of 1950.
All but two Democrats voted NO.

These were all policies that were set to expire at the end of this FFY, but would continue because it was a CR.

I think the GOP is being unreasonable with the new budget, but that is not what the CR was. The Democrats know it, and if they don't they should not be in office. The CR would have kept things going and kept the resources available to the most vulnerable populations. But the Democrats said no because they are the ones who are playing all or nothing.

In regards, to the other stuff, you are completely correct, but to a single mother who is trying to figure out how to feed her newborn, all of that other stuff does not matter when she can't get formula for her baby.
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So it's not a clean CR that just continues the old budget. It selects programs to continue which means other programs don't continue. This is the "clean CR" we are arguing about that is about as clean as sewer water downstream from a Taco Bell. Essentially, I'll trade you farm subsidies for health care.

No doubt people are getting hurt because our politicians aren't doing their job. I still say lock them all in a room with no food and a lot of water until they solve it. A solution will pass soon enough.
 
DVD said:
So it's not a clean CR that just continues the old budget. It selects programs to continue which means other programs don't continue. This is the "clean CR" we are arguing about that is about as clean as sewer water downstream from a Taco Bell. Essentially, I'll trade you farm subsidies for health care.
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Did you actually read my post before responding?

I listed those to be specific that it was a full CR and not piecemeal. Those programs listed were set to expire at the end of September as part of the previous budget. It is about as clean of a continuation as you can get. No changes to programs and services with this. Since then, they have been cutting things that the Democrats are opposed to the other CRs, but Schumer has made it clear that the Democrats won't approve a CR. For them it really is all or nothing.

But it looks like we are now down to piecemeal. The Republicans are drafting specific and individual resolutions to continue SNAP, payments to Air Traffic Controllers & TSA, and a few other issues that are very important right now. I wonder if the Democrats are low enough to not approve those too.

I really encourage you to look beyond the party and at what's really going on. You are 100% correct in your criticism of the Republicans with the new budget requests. There isn't anything with your comments there that I disagree with. Locking them into a room until they figure it out is something I would completely support. But it won't happen. So until that becomes a possibility, the Democrats need to set up and do what's right for the American People right now, and fight the next battle when they come to it. Now isn't the the time to make that stand.
 
The problem is this is politics. Is the CR clean? What is clean? Each party is framing the argument that they are right. It all comes down to each side doesn't want to lose voter confidence when election time comes. Does it matter who I blame? Not really, the GOP already disillusioned me to the point that I won't be voting for them in any upcoming position. They have to prove themselves and past performance won't make that easy on anyone. I'm not looking at party line politics. I have no real love for the democrats either, but they aren't preventing a representative from getting sworn in. They didn't let a foreign flag invade my capital. The list can go on, but let's all be afraid of democrats for trying to provide um...health care...gun safety...and at this point everything the GOP used to believe in like supporting police, military, lower taxes, lower spending...this list can go on forever.
 
DVD said:
The problem is this is politics. Is the CR clean? What is clean? Each party is framing the argument that they are right. It all comes down to each side doesn't want to lose voter confidence when election time comes. Does it matter who I blame? Not really, the GOP already disillusioned me to the point that I won't be voting for them in any upcoming position. They have to prove themselves and past performance won't make that easy on anyone. I'm not looking at party line politics. I have no real love for the democrats either, but they aren't preventing a representative from getting sworn in. They didn't let a foreign flag invade my capital. The list can go on, but let's all be afraid of democrats for trying to provide um...health care...gun safety...and at this point everything the GOP used to believe in like supporting police, military, lower taxes, lower spending...this list can go on forever.
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I think this is a major point where you and I differ. I refuse to vote based on party. I have never voted straight ticket and highly doubt that I ever will. I look at each candidate and determine if their positions align with my personal positions on each topic. That is why I support Fetterman's comments. He is a D but his comments make sense and that is why I don't support Rand Paul, who is an R, but I feel is on the wrong side of this topic.

The items that you referenced (Health care & gun safety) are things that are important to me. I believe in background checks and think that we should require training on how to store firearms correctly before any yes ANY firearm is sold. I believe things like preventative care & mental health care should be free and abundant and insurance companies should be required to cover the cost of basic gym memberships. I also think that there is an amazing amount of wasteful spending at the federal government that continues to cause everyone's taxes to go up.

Overall I personally think we would be a better country if we stopped including party affiliation on ballots and encouraged people to really look into the candidates and not the letter behind their name.

I the next election, I will likely vote for some R's, some D's, and perhaps some G's, I's, and L's.
 
I'm usually not a party voter and I'm less of an issue voter and more looking for decent people. When an entire party can't hold up to my values of decency - which honestly are not that high - I think I'll not vote for that party. I'm not asking for much. Just someone who I can actually trust as much as I trust any politician. Someone I would actually let in my house without fear. Someone I would have a drink with and maybe enjoy the conversation.
 
Here's the headline to an article on troops being sent to Portland:

'We deeply regret these errors': Trump admin admits to 'factual discrepancy' that played pivotal role in appellate ruling of National Guard case

At least they admitted to the 'Factual Discrepancy" and not to the previous "alternate facts"
 
michaelskis said:
There hasn't been a CR, there hasn't been debate, and the Democrats have threatened a filibuster unless they get everything they want. It's not playing hardball, it is holding the most vulnerable in this country hostage as political pawns.
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Considering that that what they are asking for is the extension of the ACA subsidies so people premiums don't double, I'd argue that they aren't holding them hostage
michaelskis said:
Did you actually read my post before responding?

I listed those to be specific that it was a full CR and not piecemeal. Those programs listed were set to expire at the end of September as part of the previous budget. It is about as clean of a continuation as you can get. No changes to programs and services with this. Since then, they have been cutting things that the Democrats are opposed to the other CRs, but Schumer has made it clear that the Democrats won't approve a CR. For them it really is all or nothing.

But it looks like we are now down to piecemeal. The Republicans are drafting specific and individual resolutions to continue SNAP, payments to Air Traffic Controllers & TSA, and a few other issues that are very important right now. I wonder if the Democrats are low enough to not approve those too.

I really encourage you to look beyond the party and at what's really going on. You are 100% correct in your criticism of the Republicans with the new budget requests. There isn't anything with your comments there that I disagree with. Locking them into a room until they figure it out is something I would completely support. But it won't happen. So until that becomes a possibility, the Democrats need to set up and do what's right for the American People right now, and fight the next battle when they come to it. Now isn't the the time to make that stand.
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Why is it ALWAYS the Democrats that have "step up and do what's right"? The GOP is literally burning our institutions to the ground and turning ALL government offices into partisan loyalty clubs which does real damage, damage that will not and cannot be repaired easily now quickly, if at all.

Now isn't the time to make that stand?
If not now, when? In 2026 when they might be able to win back the House (If Trump's minions haven't even further rigged it with the redistricting bullsh*t) and we hopefully haven't been placed under martial law due the "Insurrection Act"? Sorry, that's too far off and these f*ckers haven't proven they CANNOT be trusted. Trust, but verify. That's burned them on more than one occasion in recent memory.

In the end, people are eventually going to wise up and figure out just who the GOP works for and on behalf of and that they refuse to negotiate so as to make this shutdown as painful as possible, just like they did the last time. Just like with their ICE BS, the pain and suffering IS THE POINT.
 
estromberg said:
Considering that that what they are asking for is the extension of the ACA subsidies so people premiums don't double, I'd argue that they aren't holding them hostage

Why is it ALWAYS the Democrats that have "step up and do what's right"? The GOP is literally burning our institutions to the ground and turning ALL government offices into partisan loyalty clubs which does real damage, damage that will not and cannot be repaired easily now quickly, if at all.

Now isn't the time to make that stand?
If not now, when? In 2026 when they might be able to win back the House (If Trump's minions haven't even further rigged it with the redistricting bullsh*t) and we hopefully haven't been placed under martial law due the "Insurrection Act"? Sorry, that's too far off and these f*ckers haven't proven they CANNOT be trusted. Trust, but verify. That's burned them on more than one occasion in recent memory.

In the end, people are eventually going to wise up and figure out just who the GOP works for and on behalf of and that they refuse to negotiate so as to make this shutdown as painful as possible, just like they did the last time. Just like with their ICE BS, the pain and suffering IS THE POINT.
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You have all right to feel the way that you do about the GOP. In many aspects, I agree with you.

But those on WIC or SNAP are questioning if they have enough food to hold them over or are having to go to churches and food pantries for their next meal. Air Traffic Controllers and TSA agents still need to show up, but are wondering how they are going to pay their mortgage payment, or even gas to get them to work. Famers who relay on disaster or conservation payments are questioning if they are even going to be able to keep their farm.

Approving the CR should not be a political question, it should be a common decency question. We have spent the past 100+ years creating these programs that resulted in relying on the federal government for existence, and to just stop payments for political points... that is a new kind of low.

But hey... let's see what CNN says about this:
 
michaelskis said:
Approving the CR should not be a political question, it should be a common decency question.
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Should be but it's not. Politicians have weaponized every part of the political process. Even who runs for school board is now an us or them discussion and not about how to help kids learn.
 
dw914er said:
I, for one, am excited to see nuclear weapon testing return...
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Agreed.

Thinking about it, I decided that if you have ever tested nuclear weapons, dropped MOAB anywhere in the world for any reason (Mother Of All Bombs), or killed suspected NARCOs without due process, you can never win the Nobel Peace Prize.
 
"But Trump says a lot of things, and he reverses course regularly; often, what look like important pronouncements turn out to be random thoughts that have escaped the weak gravity of Trump’s attention span."

Tom Nichols, in The Atlantic, regarding Trump's misunderstanding of nuclear weapons testing.
 
Gedunker said:
"But Trump says a lot of things, and he reverses course regularly; often, what look like important pronouncements turn out to be random thoughts that have escaped the weak gravity of Trump’s attention span."

Tom Nichols, in The Atlantic, regarding Trump's misunderstanding of nuclear weapons testing.
Click to expand...

Gold Rush GIF by Discovery


But I hope Tom's thesis isn't to use this as an excuse. Because it's clearly a play out of the 'Con Man's Handbook'. The chaos is the point...and it's ravaging our institution(s).
 
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