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NEVERENDING ♾️ The NEVERENDING Gas Price Thread

Top 10 Good Things About $4 Gas

The online article is too long to post here. IMO. But good none the less. I found this in another forum and there were a lot of folks denouncing this list....why?

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages...1819594,00.html

1. Globalized Jobs Return Home
2. Sprawl Stalls
3. Four-Day Workweeks
4. Less Pollution
5. More Frugality
6. Fewer Traffic Deaths
7. Cheaper Insurance
8. Less Traffic
9. More Cops on the Beat
10. Less Obesity
 
zmanPLAN said:
The online article is too long to post here. IMO. But good none the less. I found this in another forum and there were a lot of folks denouncing this list....why?
Click to expand...

It runs counter to the current setup. Many don't want to be told they can no longer have extreme mobility and will not be able to afford the house on the frige. That's unamerican to many. We are supposed to be able to have complete freedom to do whatever we want however we want. Unfortunately, the realities of energy say otherwise.
 
boiker said:
It runs counter to the current setup. Many don't want to be told they can no longer have extreme mobility and will not be able to afford the house on the frige. That's unamerican to many. We are supposed to be able to have complete freedom to do whatever we want however we want. Unfortunately, the realities of energy say otherwise.
Click to expand...

I have enjoyed the freedom to adopted many of the items on the list over the last couple years (except for the sprawl thing :-$)

I think it would grant more freedom. Freedom from the Conformity Herd.
 
Finally, the airlines are speaking to change in the wake of rising fuel costs in this open letter....


An Open letter to All Airline Customers:

Our country is facing a possible sharp economic downturn because of skyrocketing oil and fuel prices, but by pulling together, we can all do something to help now.

For airlines, ultra-expensive fuel means thousands of lost jobs and severe reductions in air service to both large and small communities. To the broader economy, oil prices mean slower activity and widespread economic pain. This pain can be alleviated, and that is why we are taking the extraordinary step of writing this joint letter to our customers.

Since high oil prices are partly a response to normal market forces, the nation needs to focus on increased energy supplies and conservation. However, there is another side to this story because normal market forces are being dangerously amplified by poorly regulated market speculation.

Twenty years ago, 21 percent of oil contracts were purchased by speculators who trade oil on paper with no intention of ever taking delivery. Today, oil speculators purchase 66 percent of all oil futures contracts, and that reflects just the transactions that are known. Speculators buy up large amounts of oil and then sell it to each other again and again. A barrel of oil may trade 20-plus times before it is delivered and used; the price goes up with each trade and consumers pick up the final tab. Some market experts estimate that current prices reflect as much as $30 to $60 per barrel in unnecessary speculative costs.

Over seventy years ago, Congress established regulations to control excessive, largely unchecked market speculation and manipulation. However, over the past two decades, these regulatory limits have been weakened or removed. We believe that restoring and enforcing these limits, along with several other modest measures, will provide more disclosure, transparency and sound market oversight. Together, these reforms will help cool the over-heated oil market and permit the economy to prosper.

The nation needs to pull together to reform the oil markets and solve this growing problem.

We need your help. Get more information and contact Congress by visiting www.StopOilSpeculationNow.com.


Robert Fornaro
President and CEO
AirTran Airways

Bill Ayer
Chairman, President and CEO
Alaska Airlines, Inc.

Gerard J. Arpey
Chairman, President and CEO
American Airlines, Inc.



Lawrence W. Kellner
Chairman and CEO
Continental Airlines, Inc.


Richard Anderson
CEO
Delta Air Lines, Inc.


Mark B. Dunkerley
President and CEO
Hawaiian Airlines, Inc.



Dave Barger
CEO
JetBule Airways Corporation


Timothy E. Hoeksema
Chairman, President and CEO
Midwest Airlines


Douglas M. Steenland
President and CEO
Northwest Airlines, Inc.



Gary Kelly
Chairman and CEO
Southwest Airlines Co.


Glenn F. Tilton
Chairman, President and CEO
United Airlines, Inc.


Douglas Parker
Chairman and CEO
US Airways Group, Inc.
 
Yesterday I had some meetings in Port Huron, Michigan. There was a Marathon in Port Huron selling gas for $3.89.9. There was probably about 90 cars in line to buy it. Its sad to see that folks are so desperate for lower priced gas they line up even at that price. A few months back people would not have even wanted gas at that price, now they are willing to waste hours of time to buy it at that price.
 
I'm not a big fan of high gas prices. But I do get a certain amount of satisfaction whenever I see somebody stressing about the fact that it just cost them 100 bucks to fill up their hummer/F350/etc. Does that make me a bad person?
 
imaplanner said:
I'm not a big fan of high gas prices. But I do get a certain amount of satisfaction whenever I see somebody stressing about the fact that it just cost them 100 bucks to fill up their hummer/F350/etc. Does that make me a bad person?
Click to expand...

Nope. I do the same thing.

I haven't broken $75 filling up my Honda Pilot yet, but then again, it is only a 22 gallon tank.

I did borrow my neighbor's Chevy One Ton Diesel the other week to pick a large item up from a garage sale. My wife offered to fill the tank :-c, they said don't worry. So I bought him some beer instead.

Whew... :-c
 
Prices seem to be heading down in Cleveland. For a few days, prices topped $4, but now the $3.9X range is more common; a few old-school service stations are still on the high end, though.
 
DetroitPlanner said:
Yesterday I had some meetings in Port Huron, Michigan. There was a Marathon in Port Huron selling gas for $3.89.9. There was probably about 90 cars in line to buy it. Its sad to see that folks are so desperate for lower priced gas they line up even at that price. A few months back people would not have even wanted gas at that price, now they are willing to waste hours of time to buy it at that price.
Click to expand...

You have to wonder why they do not do the math and realize they are only saving a few dollars by waiting...if you factor in their opportunity cost then they are not saving money at all.
 
I paid $3.93 near my work today which is a bit lower than the $3.99-$4.19 that is prevalent around the area I live in. I am glad that I have a pretty efficient Ford Focus even though it's a bit gutless, it's only about $40 to fill.
 
Brocktoon said:
You have to wonder why they do not do the math and realize they are only saving a few dollars by waiting...if you factor in their opportunity cost then they are not saving money at all.
Click to expand...

That was exactly my impression. Have things gotten that bad for some people that doing such things is logical? Apparantly yes. To save 20 cents a gallon, and most fill-ups are probably no more than 15 gallons, thats only three bucks off of $61.35, or a savings of less than 4.9 percent. Minimum wage in Michigan was just hiked to $7.50/hr.
 
What a headline - Gas prices could help end sprawl
http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/news/x2109419900/Gas-prices-could-help-end-sprawl

Article references the subject of a previous thread:
In March's Atlantic Monthly, Christopher Leinberger, a professor of urban planning, developer and visiting fellow at the Brookings Institution, wrote that "a major shift in the way many Americans want to live and work" is already under way, likely to cause suburban decay of the kind seen in inner cities last century.
Click to expand...

The article makes a good point about transit system and development relationship.
 
Does anyone else feel that people are complaining way too much about gas prices? They've gone up, but it still represents such a small, small percentage of what people spend... People pay much less attention to interest rates, for example, but they have far more impact on household finances.
 
abrowne said:
Does anyone else feel that people are complaining way too much about gas prices? They've gone up, but it still represents such a small, small percentage of what people spend... People pay much less attention to interest rates, for example, but they have far more impact on household finances.
Click to expand...

I don't. For many, this is a huge issue. For a family living on minimum wage jobs its a catasrophe. This is impacting more than the cost of gasoline, as higher transport costs are impacting the rest of the economy (food, goods, services). When you look at it in terms of percentage of incomes, it has tripled since 2002, and in many cases folks are making significantly less (particularly manufacturing sectors) now than they did then.

I can absorb the cost of the gasoline increase, but its what it is doing to the cost of food that I am noticing the most.
 
I'm getting peevish with the stations who are doing the price switcheroo for cash vs. card purchases. The sign on the street says one thing, on the pump it says something different. :-{
 
Politicos see a chance to make hay

Louisville metro area is in an attainment area. We are required to use Re-Formulated Gasoline (RFG) and we've been paying on average $.20-.25 more per gallon than those outside the attainment area. Folks started wondering why and one TV station looked into it and found other KY attainment areas were paying only $.08 more per gallon on average.

It was amusing to see the governor and state senators, among others, scrambling to demand answers. Not demand refunds to those of us, possibly gouged by the oil companies under the guise of a "clean air" mandate, just answers

Yes, indeed, the sun is shining on my ol kaintuck' home.:-(
 
DetroitPlanner said:
I don't. For many, this is a huge issue. For a family living on minimum wage jobs its a catasrophe. .
Click to expand...

Yes if you are a family with an SUV or a big truck living on minimum wage that could be a problem. But some of the most affordable and most reliable vehicles are also the ones getting the best gas mileage. People need to make better choices.
 
Change

I want to know why is it that all the democracts who seaid that they would lower gas prices once they took over in congress have done nothing. They have not ended the war (even though they control funding) they have not cleaned up the scandals, they have not done anything they said that they woud do.

and yet people are thinking about voting for damocrat for president???
 
michaelskis said:
they have not done anything they said that they woud do. and yet people are thinking about voting for damocrat for president???
Click to expand...

Tough to really do anything when you just have a simple majority in the senate and need a few republicans to pass any real legislation now isn't? Last time i checked, the "damocrats" proposed an alternatives energy package as a part of the last energy bill signed by "W" but was shot down because veto threat and the unwillingess of the republicans to sign off on such a bold idea. Then again, all the republicans can counter so far is more drilling (which takes about a good 7-10 years to get online) and the good ol' gas tax holiday (yea, that's a real winner proposal right there). How about some true change, like following the proposed California Standard for MPG, oh wait, bush and his cronies denied that already...
 
michaelskis said:
I want to know why is it that all the democracts who seaid that they would lower gas prices once they took over in congress have done nothing. They have not ended the war (even though they control funding) they have not cleaned up the scandals, they have not done anything they said that they woud do.

and yet people are thinking about voting for damocrat for president???
Click to expand...

I don't know of anyone thinking about voting for a damocrat. ;-)
 
michaelskis said:
I want to know why is it that all the democracts who seaid that they would lower gas prices once they took over in congress have done nothing. They have not ended the war (even though they control funding) they have not cleaned up the scandals, they have not done anything they said that they woud do.

and yet people are thinking about voting for damocrat for president???
Click to expand...

Maybe they lied? Or had no control over the promises they made?

I'm sure no Republicans have done either of those things over the past decade. Oh wait...
 
michaelskis said:
and yet people are thinking about voting for damocrat for president???
Click to expand...

Somehow I think this pales in light of what has happened past 8 years. Let see-lets see.... we will run a war like a political campaign while we flush countless lives and dollars down the toliet. Gee, that makes we want to vote Republican. The problem is that when W and his crew did something illegal or questionable, they wrapped themsevles in the flag when somebody called them on it. Questioning people's patriotism to hide their b.s. The Dem's problem is they didn't have the cajones to call that disgracefull bunch on it. I'm shamed by the Democrats but I'm disgusted by the Republicans.
 
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Typical of democrats... point out the typos instead of answering the question. Maybe it is because you do not have the answers. I was typing on my Treo because I was in between meetings in another city.

Yes, the Democrats have a majority in the house and senate, but they preached non-stop how they would change America and lower the gas prices. Yet I can’t think of one thing that they did to help.

Drill here, drill now would be a good start. And don’t give me this environmental crap. The technology to drill for oil is far, far safer than it has ever been, many of the risks associated with it including impacts on the wild life and natural environment, and technology allowing drilling to not only be vertical, but also horizontal has eliminated 99.99% of peoples fears.

Everyone around the world is drilling off our shore... except for us. I also know that it would be 5 to 10 years before we see current drilling being turned into useable gas, however we had this option 10 years ago and decided not to. I do not want to have the same conversation going on in 10 years.


Obama is weak on energy conservation regarding alternative energy production. His idea is to put more taxes on the oil company... the only reason that the CEO’s make so much is because we buy so much. The markup is so tiny that the government makes more money than the oil companies for every gallon we buy. If you take away the remaining profit, why should any of them bother drilling at all. You think prices are high know, they will be insane if Obama gets into office. And as we see now, the price of gas influences the price of everything else.
 
imaplanner said:
Yes if you are a family with an SUV or a big truck living on minimum wage that could be a problem. But some of the most affordable and most reliable vehicles are also the ones getting the best gas mileage. People need to make better choices.
Click to expand...

I think you're missing the point, a minimum wage family could not afford an SUV or big truck to begin with. If they bought one, thats of their own ignorance. My big concern is what has happened to transport costs and the cost of alternative fuels and commodities. These things are going through the roof. I am amazed that if I stop to eat at a fast food joint how much it costs for a sub-standard meal these days. This has to because all have higher costs of doing business which gets passed along to the consumer.
 
michaelskis said:
Typical of democrats... point out the typos instead of answering the question. Maybe it is because you do not have the answers. I was typing on my Treo because I was in between meetings in another city.

Yes, the Democrats have a majority in the house and senate, but they preached non-stop how they would change America and lower the gas prices. Yet I can’t think of one thing that they did to help.

Drill here, drill now would be a good start. And don’t give me this environmental crap. The technology to drill for oil is far, far safer than it has ever been, many of the risks associated with it including impacts on the wild life and natural environment, and technology allowing drilling to not only be vertical, but also horizontal has eliminated 99.99% of peoples fears.

Everyone around the world is drilling off our shore... except for us. I also know that it would be 5 to 10 years before we see current drilling being turned into useable gas, however we had this option 10 years ago and decided not to. I do not want to have the same conversation going on in 10 years.


Obama is weak on energy conservation regarding alternative energy production. His idea is to put more taxes on the oil company... the only reason that the CEO’s make so much is because we buy so much. The markup is so tiny that the government makes more money than the oil companies for every gallon we buy. If you take away the remaining profit, why should any of them bother drilling at all. You think prices are high know, they will be insane if Obama gets into office. And as we see now, the price of gas influences the price of everything else.
Click to expand...


You are missing the point m'skis. Drilling is a short term solution. The R's have no other solution except drill. Further, by the time the oil hits the market, this will all be point past the fact. M'skis you were blesssed to growing up in a gorgeous place. Someone of us didn't. Perhaps we don't take for granted scenic beauty. We value it more because we didn't have it. Views of factories and fields only go so far. Further, we lived with pollution that comes with living near refineries. Some of us have health issues because of it.

As for Osama, he's at least coming up with long term ideas. The R's have a long history of blocking, eliminating or sidetracking what the D's come up with in this area, starting with Carter. Probably because they are in oil companies pocket. This includes the recent example of the R's holding hostage the D's energy plan. The R's can do this becuase they can filibuster. Blaming the D's in this area is a bit disingenious when the R's are by far the bigger culprit.
 
As I have said before, the oil companies and the politicians that love them have never, never backed down to the environmentalists. They have had the power over the environmental lobby for decades.

All of a sudden now, the oil companies and the Bush admin are saying that the enviromentalists are blocking their ability to drill off shore and in ANWR, I call that B.S.. These two entities are way too proud to let the liberal, eco front stall them now.
It is all a political game. Notice how prices went up before the election. People are going to buy into the Mskis theory of blaming the Dems for this and vote for the Republicans.

If the Dems had ANY control of the gas prices, would they be rising now when they could take back the White House in November, no way they would commit political suicide in such a manner.


THAT BEING SAID:
At the risk of sacrificing Colorado's beautiful Western Slope sage country to satisfy the addiction of the nation, I am almost pulling for the Drill NOW! camp.

Put your money where your mouth is and show me lower gas prices.... :r:
 
michaelskis said:
Everyone around the world is drilling off our shore... except for us.
Click to expand...

Exactly which countries are drilling off of our shore? You're not really buying all of that propaganda that has been out there, are you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_Economic_Zone

Obama is weak on energy conservation regarding alternative energy production. His idea is to put more taxes on the oil company... the only reason that the CEO's make so much is because we buy so much. The markup is so tiny that the government makes more money than the oil companies for every gallon we buy. If you take away the remaining profit, why should any of them bother drilling at all. You think prices are high know, they will be insane if Obama gets into office. And as we see now, the price of gas influences the price of everything else.
Click to expand...

Um, no. The government may make more money on each gallon of gasoline than the gas station, but the oil companies are making significant amounts on the crude that they sell (where the vast majority of their profits come from). Think of it this way - most of the wells that are still in use were profitable when oil was $30 a barrel. How profitable do you think they are now?
 
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michaelskis said:
Typical of democrats... point out the typos instead of answering the question. Maybe it is because you do not have the answers. I was typing on my Treo because I was in between meetings in another city.

Yes, the Democrats have a majority in the house and senate, but they preached non-stop how they would change America and lower the gas prices. Yet I can’t think of one thing that they did to help.

Drill here, drill now would be a good start. And don’t give me this environmental crap. The technology to drill for oil is far, far safer than it has ever been, many of the risks associated with it including impacts on the wild life and natural environment, and technology allowing drilling to not only be vertical, but also horizontal has eliminated 99.99% of peoples fears.

Everyone around the world is drilling off our shore... except for us. I also know that it would be 5 to 10 years before we see current drilling being turned into useable gas, however we had this option 10 years ago and decided not to. I do not want to have the same conversation going on in 10 years.


Obama is weak on energy conservation regarding alternative energy production. His idea is to put more taxes on the oil company... the only reason that the CEO’s make so much is because we buy so much. The markup is so tiny that the government makes more money than the oil companies for every gallon we buy. If you take away the remaining profit, why should any of them bother drilling at all. You think prices are high know, they will be insane if Obama gets into office. And as we see now, the price of gas influences the price of everything else.
Click to expand...

I'm not a democrat.

I have lived places where drilling is taking place and I have witnessed oil spills. I have held seabirds covered in oil in my hands and tried to help them. Even those pushing for offshore drilling admit that the impact will be very very small and will not be seen for at least a decade. Yes if we had started drilling 10 years ago we might see a decrease in gas prices of maybe a few cents right now.

Most importantly - drilling for oil off of our shores will do nothing to make us more self sufficient. All of that oil will be traded on the global market and prices will continue to be set by that global market.

The alternative fuel technology is increasing to the point that in a decade its likely that many completely electric or alternative fuel vehicles will be available. Like zman said- this is a BS issue that the republkicans are using in an election year. Just like gay marriage.

Gas prices suck. But they are not going down significantly so get used to it. Get a more efficient vehicle. And for crying out loud stop getting all your information from Rush and Hannity - no otehr countries are drilling off our shore.

DetroitPlanner said:
I think you're missing the point, a minimum wage family could not afford an SUV or big truck to begin with. If they bought one, thats of their own ignorance. My big concern is what has happened to transport costs and the cost of alternative fuels and commodities. These things are going through the roof. I am amazed that if I stop to eat at a fast food joint how much it costs for a sub-standard meal these days. This has to because all have higher costs of doing business which gets passed along to the consumer.
Click to expand...

I understand your point and I think I am making a different point. My argument had to do mainly with people's choice in vehicles. And yes - from what I have seen many minimum wage family are driving larger trucks or suv's (perhaps just not newer ones).
 
ImaPlanner, I'm glad that we can agree folks make some poor decisions on what to drive. Back in the 80's there was an issue where the poor could only afford gas guzzlers from the 70's as all of the 1970's fuel efficient cars were pretty much crap (Vega, Monza, Pinto, Datsun B-10, even the Honda Civic and VW Bettle) and no longer in the fleet. That is not the case today.

I still stand-by that the impacts on the economy are far worse than what is reflected in the cost of oil. I am in my early 40's, when I first started to drive, gas was about $1.40 a gallon and minimum wage was $3.35/hr. Now gas is $4.20, with minimum wage being about $5.50/hr (in Michigan we have a state law of $7.50/hr). Folks are hurting big-time due to the economy no matter what car they drive or if they take the bus and walk.
 
Didn't stage this photo, just pushed the shutter release.

bike-gas.jpg
 
A gas war?

Two stations across the street from each other and about a half-mile from our house are selling regular unleaded for $3.68.9 and $3.66.9 per gallon.

Source: GasBuddy.com
 
The Chevron and 7-11 gas stations by my building: $3.81 (as of this morning).

The Exxon by my house: $3.94 (as of this morning).

The 7-11 on my way to work: $3.89 (as of this morning).

Why the $0.13 difference? Anyone have an answer for that?
 
I am looking at $3.65 they say we are the lowest in the nation.
We went on a trip this lst weekend on Friday it was $3.59 in Wichita.
 
$3.89 at the station across from work.

Now that summer travel is calming down, they are lower the prices. :-|
 
Some Toledo-area stations are under $3.50. This Bear forked over $3.65 the other day. (Oil dropped another three bucks a barrel today and we all know that those barrels are super-connected to the pumps around the corner. ;-))

Bear
 
Salmissra said:
The Chevron and 7-11 gas stations by my building: $3.81 (as of this morning).

The Exxon by my house: $3.94 (as of this morning).

The 7-11 on my way to work: $3.89 (as of this morning).

Why the $0.13 difference? Anyone have an answer for that?
Click to expand...

Around here, the prices are higher on the tourist corridors to the beach. Get off the beaten path, like the stations RJ quoted, the prices are up to 10 cents a gallon cheaper. Could it be the same thing there?
 
Sitting at $3.85 all week here at the station I usually hit - the high range is $3.92 at the interstate
 
Down to 3.73 from a high of 3.99 as I zipped by on my bike. Except for two gig runs, I have driven 26 miles the month of July. Drove to work only once.
 
Saw $3.79 at the Wawa this morning. Will have to stop by this afternoon and fill up.
 
consider yourselves all lucky...we are still paying $4 or more around here, but it is dropping fast!
 
It's dropping here in Chicagoland, but not much maybe $3.98 if you can find it.

Though, I will be making the best decision - At the end of the month, we are moving to a house that is 0.7 miles from the building I work in - walking distance. :-D

Additionally, it is that distance to our little downtown, which has all the basic service/retail stores/offices one would need and the Library.

It will cost us a little more per month than our current situation, but I will go from using ~28 gallons every week to probably 5 every week (if that), and I will get an additional 2 hours everyday with my family that I currently use to commute. EDIT: Which will be doubly nice, since our second son is due late October.

It may be the suburbs, but it is urban living. :-D
 
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mendelman said:
It's dropping here in Chicagoland, but not much maybe $3.98 if you can find it.
Though, I will be making the best decision - At the end of the month, we are moving to a house that is 0.7 miles from the building I work in - walking distance. :-D
Additionally, it is that distance to our little downtown, which has all the basic service/retail stores/offices one would need and the Library.
It will cost us a little more per month than our current situation, but I will go from using ~28 gallons every week to probably 5 every week (if that), and I will get an additional 2 hours everyday with my family that I currently use to commute.
It may be the suburbs, but it is urban living. :-D
Click to expand...

Congrats! :) Such a move sounds like a great solution for you. Does your wife also cut her commute with this move?
 
Salmissra said:
Does your wife also cut her commute with this move?
Click to expand...
No....she's a stay-at-home wife/mom, so it's really much the same.

Though, it is a larger house. ;)

And the situation is good for her, because she will have the car during the day, because I currently have the car at work now and we only have/want one car.
 
$4.02 here in some places $4.16 in others just a block or two a way, who knows why. Everyone is all excited about the dropping prices due to drop in demand but the next thing you hear is folks talking about going on more car trips. Yup drive that demand right back up.

I may be in a minority but I think high prices are not all around a bad thing
 
$4.39 here. Not much lower than it had been before. Personally I wish they'd put a $4.20/gallon floor under gasoline and devote any revenue above that toward repairing the massive fiscal hole New York state is in. The trains are almost standing room only at this point even on weekends and there is no money to pay for capacity upgrades.
 
I'm already starting to hear mumbling of "thank God gas prices are going down. I was afraid I was goling to have to sell my truck or stop driving so much".

People were just about ready to start making some real changes- and now that it looks like prices could drop somwhat significantly my guess is they are going to abandon any thoughts of those changes.
 
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