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NEVERENDING ♾️ The NEVERENDING Political Discussion Thread

I was at the gym early this morning and one of the TVs in front of the cardio area was on Fox News. I wasn't really paying attention to what they were showing but I swear every time I looked up they were playing a commercial for some sort of Trump-themed or #47 themed merchandise... "collectable" :r: coins, whiskey, clothing, a shady-looking non-profit, etc.

Grifters gonna grift!
 
I guess he found out.

1737655365750.jpeg
 
I look forward to states getting into the renaming business. Obviously, Alabama cannot have the Tennessee River within its borders. I'm sure a ton of states would love to get rid of the Ohio and Mississippi Rivers. I could see some places keeping the Colorado River, its a classy state. Texas will need to rename lots of things that sound a bit too Mexican. I don't know what to do with New Mexico, maybe New Texas, New Florida...
 
I don't know how an originalist gets around the plain text of Section 1 of the 14th Amendment.

Section 1

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
 
WSU MUP Student said:
I was at the gym early this morning and one of the TVs in front of the cardio area was on Fox News. I wasn't really paying attention to what they were showing but I swear every time I looked up they were playing a commercial for some sort of Trump-themed or #47 themed merchandise... "collectable" :r: coins, whiskey, clothing, a shady-looking non-profit, etc.

Grifters gonna grift!
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Any Trump stores in your area? I have two in opposite directions.

Also, I guess this is real...

 
michaelskis said:
Just because someone is the child of immigrant parents, does not mean that they will be affected by this. Usha and many others are perfectly fine...


www.townandcountrymag.com

Meet Usha Vance's Parents, Krish and Lakshmi Chilukuri

Usha's parents immigrated from India, and now both work as professors in San Diego.
www.townandcountrymag.com www.townandcountrymag.com
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Of course, it isn't retroactive. The point is this: had this policy been in place previously, she would not have been a US citizen by birth. Nor would Kamala Harris. Or Marco Rubio. Getting rid of birthright citizenship SHOULD require a Constitutional amendment, but who knows what Trump's SCOTUS will say, they are quite comfortable throwing out historical precedent and settled law to benefit their political allies.
 
estromberg said:
Of course, it isn't retroactive. The point is this: had this policy been in place previously, she would not have been a US citizen by birth. Nor would Kamala Harris. Or Marco Rubio. Getting rid of birthright citizenship SHOULD require a Constitutional amendment, but who knows what Trump's SCOTUS will say, they are quite comfortable throwing out historical precedent and settled law to benefit their political allies.
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I can't speak for Harris, but Usha's parents where already legal green card citizens when she was born. They would not have been affected. Same goes for his son Barron. Melania got her green card in 2001, before he was born. Rubio on the other hand, that might be a different story. His parents become full US citizens 4 years after he was born in Florida. I don't know their status before that time.

My point is there is a ton of speculation and a lot of mis-information regarding this topic and a few others regarding Trump's orders. Don't get me wrong, I don't like Trump, didn't vote for Trump, and don't support a lot of what Trump does, or is. But I do think that some people are going way overboard with their accusations regarding what they think is happening.

At the end of the day, this nation is what we make of it... not someone who sits in an oval office. If we want this country to be a vibrant prosperous place where people look out for each other and human kindness is abundant, it starts with us.


EDIT:

A coworker just sent this to me. I have a new respect for Leno in his desire to not get wrapped up in the politics of it all.
www.foxnews.com

Jay Leno praises LA first responders for focusing on the fires, not playing the ‘blame game’

Comedy and TV legend Jay Leno details how he helped hand out hot meals to first responders fighting fires around Los Angeles County on "The Will Cain Show."
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com
 
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jsk1983 said:
Any Trump stores in your area? I have two in opposite directions.

Also, I guess this is real...

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No Trump stores that I know of, but other than the very Blue bubble I live in, I don't really get out too much.

However, I will say that I drive past the county GOP HQ on occasion and I noticed that sometime around the election they put up a big sign out front advertising, "GET YOUR TRUMP GEAR HERE!" and it's been up ever since and the exterior has has so many political signs since the summer that it looks like a roadside fireworks stand in South Carolina. :r:

The building is in an area of nothing but million dollar houses and the city is usually pretty strict about signage and just not looking like trash in general. I know there are some exceptions for political signs but maybe I should look into the ordinance a bit more closely and make some complaints. It's on the opposite side of town as my neighborhood and I don't have to look at it often but if I lived over there I wouldn't want to see that eyesore everyday (irregardless of who they were stumping for).
 
Regarding the birthright citizenship E.O. - it seems as though the key text is associated with this paragraph:

"Among the categories of individuals born in the United States and not subject to the jurisdiction thereof, the privilege of United States citizenship does not automatically extend to persons born in the United States: (1) when that person’s mother was unlawfully present in the United States and the father was not a United States citizen or lawful permanent resident at the time of said person’s birth, or (2) when that person’s mother’s presence in the United States at the time of said person’s birth was lawful but temporary (such as, but not limited to, visiting the United States under the auspices of the Visa Waiver Program or visiting on a student, work, or tourist visa) and the father was not a United States citizen or lawful permanent resident at the time of said person’s birth."

A similar argument went in front of the Supreme court over 100 years ago in US vs. Wong Kim Ark, the key supporting argument behind the Court's decision stated: "The child of an alien, if born in the country, is as much a citizen as the natural born child of a citizen, and by operation of the same principle." The previous interpretations of 'subject to the jurisdiction thereof' seemed pretty clearly focused on diplomatic immunity (i.e. the child of a diplomat working in the U.S. under the jurisdiction of his/her own home country). Point #1 in the E.O. is quite a stretch, as it seems to be trying to argue that a person unlawfully present in the United States is not subject to its jurisdiction. Point #2 is even more of a stretch. From my own reading it is hard to see how it would not be in direct violation of the 14th amendment as there is no reference to anything that could support 'lawful but temporary' as a basis to deny a person's citizenship.

I don't think the point of the E.O. is to actually win the legal argument, but rather to display the inevitable court battles publicly.
 
^ I am no legal scholar, but all of the people in those situations mentioned in the EO:

((1) when that person’s mother was unlawfully present in the United States and the father was not a United States citizen or lawful permanent resident at the time of said person’s birth, or (2) when that person’s mother’s presence in the United States at the time of said person’s birth was lawful but temporary (such as, but not limited to, visiting the United States under the auspices of the Visa Waiver Program or visiting on a student, work, or tourist visa) and the father was not a United States citizen or lawful permanent resident at the time of said person’s birth.)

are subject to the jurisdiction of the United States. Is the EO asserting that people here illegally or under certain visas are not subject to our laws?

It's my understanding that the only people here who are not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States are people here under military/NATO visas and diplomatic visas.
 
JNA said:
www.syracuse.com

Gulf of America? Trump’s geographic name changes leave mapmakers pondering what to do

What’s in a name change, after all?
www.syracuse.com www.syracuse.com

Has your fair community had a renaming issue ?
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Not directly, but it is expensive. I was chatting with someone in Fayetteville NC regarding the renaming of Fort Bragg to Fort Liberty about this issue a while back. He point out that it is not just maps, but street signs, wayfinding signs, contracts and agreements, and a host of other things.
 
Here is another interesting E.O. tidbit, this one in reference to the order on 'Unleashing American Energy':

Under Section 2
"(b) To expedite and simplify the permitting process, within 30 days of the date of this order, the Chairman of the Council on Environmental Quality (CEQ) shall provide guidance on implementing the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA), 42 U.S.C. 4321 et seq., and propose rescinding CEQ’s NEPA regulations found at 40 CFR 1500 et seq.

(c) Following the provision of the guidance, the Chairman of CEQ shall convene a working group to coordinate the revision of agency-level implementing regulations for consistency. The guidance in subsection (b) and any resulting implementing regulations must expedite permitting approvals and meet deadlines established in the Fiscal Responsibility Act of 2023 (Public Law 118-5). Consistent with applicable law, all agencies must prioritize efficiency and certainty over any other objectives, including those of activist groups, that do not align with the policy goals set forth in section 2 of this order or that could otherwise add delays and ambiguity to the permitting process."

Similar to the other E.O.'s, I see this as another example of trying to stretch the limit of Presidential authority (almost certainly another case where winning a legal argument in the short term will be less important than displaying it publicly and seeing how much leeway the courts may offer).

This E.O. made the headlines because of rescinding the funding from IRA/BIL regarding EV infrastructure, but I think the quoted section above is going to be much more interesting to see how things play out. I could certainly see a scenario where the cure is worse than the disease (removing NEPA wholesale for the sake of "efficiency and certainty" sounds like an environmental catastrophe in the making). But I am genuinely curious to see if this actually goes anywhere, I think most (left and right) would agree NEPA has evolved over time into a form of legal weaponization for NIMBY's to block all sorts of things on pretty flimsy environmental grounds. Maybe this will usher in a period where we can finally build rail projects in the U.S. for less than $X billion and within a reasonable time frame.
 
Google Maps will change the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of America

This is a big deal. I thought I could trust Google.

Next they will offer an app for locating immigrants, with points for prizes on correct hits

Planit said:
I'm checking a couple of our grants to see if they're impacted by the Agent Orange's 5:00 pen stroke.
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What about FAFSA?

I helped my daughter get thru this thicket, but is still better than private loans.

Education loans are secured not by assets but by potential.
 
There are some strange shenanigans happening within the federal agencies that are going to have an unforeseen ripple.

 
fringe said:
What about FAFSA?

I helped my daughter get thru this thicket, but is still better than private loans.

Education loans are secured not by assets but by potential.
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It looks like they might not be effected. However, a ton of other related things associated with education can, and will, be effected.

www.newsweek.com

Is FAFSA paused? Will Donald Trump's federal grant pause hit student loans?

President Donald Trump issued a directive on Monday to temporarily suspend all federal grants and loans.
www.newsweek.com www.newsweek.com
 
Surprised you guys aren't talking about the Federal grants situation? I'm at a COG, and this will be absolutely catastrophic for us within weeks.
 
fringe said:
Google Maps will change the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of America

This is a big deal. I thought I could trust Google.
Click to expand...
While regional names different than those users see that are outside of the region occurs, it is still stupid.
Sea of Japan to us, East Sea to those there.
Persian Gulf to us, Arabian Sea to those there.
Did I say this is stupid?
 
& AgentOrange said Project 2025 was meaningless, didn't know that much about it during the campaign.

MacheteJames said:
Surprised you guys aren't talking about the Federal grants situation? I'm at a COG, and this will be absolutely catastrophic for us within weeks.
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I'm a TCC chair. I started to call our MPO (run by COG) lead today but decided against it.
 
SlaveToTheGrind said:
While regional names different than those users see that are outside of the region occurs, it is still stupid.
Sea of Japan to us, East Sea to those there.
Persian Gulf to us, Arabian Sea to those there.
Did I say this is stupid?
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Just a dip of the toe for testing. Soon the moon and stars will be trumped.
 
MacheteJames said:
Surprised you guys aren't talking about the Federal grants situation? I'm at a COG, and this will be absolutely catastrophic for us within weeks.
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We had a discussion about it and our staff person who is part of the MPO has reached out to them and is awaiting details on what this means for us.
 
MacheteJames said:
Surprised you guys aren't talking about the Federal grants situation? I'm at a COG, and this will be absolutely catastrophic for us within weeks.
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I think the only reason we aren't is because it is actively developing as I write this.

At my firm, we're heading towards an emergency meeting of practice leaders across the firm that touch Federal or Federal pass-thru on projects, since right now our clients are popping like a damn 4th of July fireworks finale with panic.
 
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MacheteJames said:
Surprised you guys aren't talking about the Federal grants situation? I'm at a COG, and this will be absolutely catastrophic for us within weeks.
Click to expand...

I referenced it an a post above. The amount of programs that this covers is astronomical. I can understand if the OMB wants to evaluate their programs to tighten their internal controls and grantee qualifications, but this is not the way to do it.
 
dw914er said:
I referenced it an a post above. The amount of programs that this covers is astronomical. I can understand if the OMB wants to evaluate their programs to tighten their internal controls and grantee qualifications, but this is not the way to do it.
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We sent out info to our CDBG subrecipients and told them to pause any activity. Our two biggest are the food bank and utility assistance. We've had what will probably be the coldest stretch of the year and I'm sure there will be some repercussions locally.

I'm most worried about schools. It is wild how much some of the school systems are funded by federal grants. I can't imagine some of the really poor districts with 70-100% free and reduced lunch being able to float that cost.
 
JNA said:
I have a good double example - a deadend street that goes to the county jail
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We have a former mayor that never wanted to spend money on anything. The wastewater treatment plant is held together by baling wire & when something breaks, a custom replacement part needs to be fabricated, it is woefully outdated and obsolete.

We are now designing and building a new plant with increased capacity. There are several who want to name the new plant after him (for the same reason).
 
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