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NEVERENDING ♾️ The NEVERENDING Political Discussion Thread

I'm 64 years old and have never known the United States to have a shadow president. I guess I must not have been paying attention prior to this ...
 
Gedunker said:
I'm 64 years old and have never known the United States to have a shadow president. I guess I must not have been paying attention prior to this ...
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I bet you do actually remember a few instances where at least the allegation was made. Remember how Dick Cheney was supposedly telling W who to invade and what to do behind the scenes. Also, Woodrow Wilson's wife seems to have conducted a number of semi-official functions, allegedly at his direction, when her husband had a stroke while in office.
 
Maister said:
I bet you do actually remember a few instances where at least the allegation was made. Remember how Dick Cheney was supposedly telling W who to invade and what to do behind the scenes. Also, Woodrow Wilson's wife seems to have conducted a number of semi-official functions, allegedly at his direction, when her husband had a stroke while in office.
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Voices near the powerful are different than a president-elect ordering congress on what to do/what not to do. We also saw it with congress killing an immigration bill earlier this year, when dipshit was merely a candidate.
 
Gedunker said:
I'm 64 years old and have never known the United States to have a shadow president. I guess I must not have been paying attention prior to this ...
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GW Bush had one. Her name was Condoleeza Rice. She would sit on his lap and let him hold Saddam's pistol. Dick Cheney ran the war effort with his company KBR. They charged the DOD $125 for every bag of military laundry.
 
Gedunker said:
Voices near the powerful are different than a president-elect ordering congress on what to do/what not to do. We also saw it with congress killing an immigration bill earlier this year, when dipshit was merely a candidate.
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This is a bit unique in terms of 47 being able to successfully do this as a candidate and President-elect.

The only precedent I can think of is some of the coordination that happened with the Iranian hostage crisis as Carter transitioned to Reagan, with it being an open question about whether Reagan's campaign caused delay of release.
 
The Manhattan DA and "Istanbul" Eric Adams lecturing people about not cheering for a killer.

Its people like Istanbul Eric that lead to things like people taking things into their own hands. Our system is awash in money and regular people do not matter, so a guy lashes out at the system which is F'ing everyone. I don't believe its the right way. I would have preferred to make him unemployed by going to a single payer healthcare system, but I understand the helplessness and frustration of a broken, corrupt political system.

Truly a dystopia. I am glad I am near the end of my career.
 
Hawkeye66 said:
The Manhattan DA and "Istanbul" Eric Adams lecturing people about not cheering for a killer.

Its people like Istanbul Eric that lead to things like people taking things into their own hands. Our system is awash in money and regular people do not matter, so a guy lashes out at the system which is F'ing everyone. I don't believe its the right way. I would have preferred to make him unemployed by going to a single payer healthcare system, but I understand the helplessness and frustration of a broken, corrupt political system.

Truly a dystopia. I am glad I am near the end of my career.
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I think you're right: what people are doing is not exactly "cheering for a killer" but connecting with his frustration and helplessness, and trying to express how much of that they feel as well. It's scaring people. It should scare people, probably.
 
ursus said:
I think you're right: what people are doing is not exactly "cheering for a killer" but connecting with his frustration and helplessness, and trying to express how much of that they feel as well. It's scaring people. It should scare people, probably.
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As part of the establishment, the establishment media doesnt want to say that so they keep promoting the lame false narrative of "Cheering for a Killer" rather than say "Gee, we have a broken political system owned by special interests at the expense of the common good and its screwing people over."

I have a young woman who works for us who wont go to the doctor for troubles she is having, because she does not want another bill. She is paying part of her premium monthly too. The system isnt working for you unless you have money.

Single Payer costs less for everyone and has better outcomes overall. Anyone who studies economics knows health care does not have good market conditions. Consumers lack information to make good decisions. Market forces do not produce the outcomes you want. Its not selling cars or paper towels.
 
Hawkeye66 said:
As part of the establishment, the establishment media doesnt want to say that so they keep promoting the lame false narrative of "Cheering for a Killer" rather than say "Gee, we have a broken political system owned by special interests at the expense of the common good and its screwing people over."

I have a young woman who works for us who wont go to the doctor for troubles she is having, because she does not want another bill. She is paying part of her premium monthly too. The system isnt working for you unless you have money.

Single Payer costs less for everyone and has better outcomes overall. Anyone who studies economics knows health care does not have good market conditions. Consumers lack information to make good decisions. Market forces do not produce the outcomes you want. Its not selling cars or paper towels.
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Read today that United admin costs are 25 per cent whereas Medicare is about two percent.
 
Suburb Repairman said:
This is a bit unique in terms of 47 being able to successfully do this as a candidate and President-elect.

The only precedent I can think of is some of the coordination that happened with the Iranian hostage crisis as Carter transitioned to Reagan, with it being an open question about whether Reagan's campaign caused delay of release.
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You were clearly paying attention in your civics class. +1

I would argue that Trump interfered directly in American governance, while the Reagan campaign exploited a bad negotiation by Carter’s team, viz. not demanding the immediate release of the hostages. Shades of gray, perhaps.
 
Gedunker said:
You were clearly paying attention in your civics class. +1

I would argue that Trump interfered directly in American governance, while the Reagan campaign exploited a bad negotiation by Carter’s team, viz. not demanding the immediate release of the hostages. Shades of gray, perhaps.
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OT: But related, our mom took my sister and I to Andrews AFB when the hostages came home. We got to miss school and the teachers were fine with it. It was only 5th grade. We stood in the cold outside the gates of the base with our American flags on sticks with yellow ribbons tied to them. I still remember the hostages' faces as they smiled and waved through the bus windows as we cheered and waved our flags.
 
MD Planner said:
OT: But related, our mom took my sister and I to Andrews AFB when the hostages came home. We got to miss school and the teachers were fine with it. It was only 5th grade. We stood in the cold outside the gates of the base with our American flags on sticks with yellow ribbons tied to them. I still remember the hostages' faces as they smiled and waved through the bus windows as we cheered and waved our flags.
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This brought back a grade school memory. I recall all the students in my elementary school (K-6 and I in 4th grade) stood around the school with one continuous yellow ribbon. We all then took pieces of yellow ribbon home.
 
This is a sneak preview of the chaos you can expect for at least 2 years. I dont think a full budget will get passed during the next Congress. A series of continuing resolutions.
 
What does it take to be an elite? Is it really a bad thing to be an elite or pursue self interest as Adam Smith laid out?

Captain Kirk Drinking GIF by Star Trek
 
Hawkeye66 said:
What does it take to be an elite? Is it really a bad thing to be an elite or pursue self interest as Adam Smith laid out?
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It is when you have everything you want and need but don't give a damn about anyone else. That is what it takes to be elite.

Becoming successful is not bad, but when you step on everyone along the way to get and keep it... that is bad.
 
Was the guy from United Health Care an elitist?

He made 10+ million. United made money denying claims for medical care.
 
Hawkeye66 said:
Was the guy from United Health Care an elitist?

He made 10+ million. United made money denying claims for medical care.
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I wouldn't say he was an elitist. Definitely has taken advantage of the system the elites have created, but not one himself.
 
michaelskis said:
I have to admit that I have not been follow it much, so I really don't know.
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At one point there were articles that stated they had the highest rate among all major insurers at close to 1 in 3 requests being denied. I think most of those have been pulled because the data isn't really available.

I can't imagine being in the business of having to deny coverage for procedures. I struggle that healthcare is a highly profitable business. How do you place value on treatments that are life-saving or quality of life improvements, but I get that resources are not unlimited. I've seen a lot more discussion between different parts of the medical community complaining about other sectors causing costs to soar. Pharmacy's angry at PBMs and pharmaceutical companies. Nurse, doctors, and administrators all complaining about how the other employees are making bank and causing inflation. The problem is we all generally want to be paid better.
 
Wannaplan? said:
Well, if you've ever gone to work wearing a uniform and/or have punched a clock, you know you ain't elite.
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I punched a clock back in the day and on football friday nights I would lift something like 80 175 lbs kegs into cars for people. But now I have 2 degrees and 25 years of local gov experience and I make decent money and do things like go to Europe or Door County. I don't want for anything material. I lack the ability to make emotional connections, but not materially. Does that make me an elitist?
 
Gedunker said:
What about the perp? Born into wealth and privilege, attended an exclusive private high school, two Ivy League degrees?
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By background I would say most people would say yes. But he was making a lot less than the UHC guy, who graduated from the same school as me, but had a more simple background and graduated from the same school as me.
 
Hawkeye66 said:
Does that make me an elitist?
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Well, you tell me. Are you saying an elitist is unable to know they're an elitist? I know elitist is a dirty word today for some libs. Like, they are scared for being called out for misunderstanding their station in life? Nothing wrong with bootstrapping from one class to another.
 
Wannaplan? said:
Well, you tell me. Are you saying an elitist is unable to know they're an elitist? I know elitist is a dirty word today for some libs. Like, they are scared for being called out for misunderstanding their station in life? Nothing wrong with bootstrapping from one class to another.
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An elitist is in the eye of the beholder. I strive to make myself physically fit to look down my nose at guys my age who aren't. So yeah I guess I am
 
Hawkeye66 said:
An elitist is in the eye of the beholder.
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1734728924261.png


I cant really see into his eye... What do you see?



Sorry.... it's Friday...




Getting back on subject, there is a chance that the Federal Government will shut down tonight at midnight. There has been discussion back and forth about multiple plans to keep it open, but I also think that both sides are trying to jockey for one last jab or get something in now knowing that it might not get supported in January.

Do you think that we will have a shut down and what do you think are the significant issues?
 
Wannaplan? said:
American elitists - as in the political class, the intellectual class, and the monied business interests - on both the right and the left use the proles to advance their elitist self-interests.
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Absolutely. but I can't recall a time where one unelected person made a statement and essentially drove the entire political process, forcing both the incoming president's hand, along with the speaker of the house, to change course. Nor has there been a point blank and public acknowledgement that they will use their money and power to stop anyone that goes against the grain. Elon is just running an odd and overtly public and political chessmaking game.

Oh, and Gaetz did bad things: Ethics Report
 
dw914er said:
Absolutely. but I can't recall a time where one unelected person made a statement and essentially drove the entire political process, forcing both the incoming president's hand, along with the speaker of the house, to change course. Nor has there been a point blank and public acknowledgement that they will use their money and power to stop anyone that goes against the grain. Elon is just running an odd and overtly public and political chessmaking game.
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The difference this time is it is so public. This has been happening for over 200 years in various capacities. Just take the Jekyll Island Accord in 1910 which resulted in multiple changes in 1913 to the federal government structure as we know it. In the 1800's, the Planters, Rail Roads, and Industrialists all had extremely powerful lobbying efforts that went way beyond what we accept as lobbying today. J.P. Morgan was Elon Musk in the late 1800's.
 
Hawkeye66 said:
As part of the establishment, the establishment media doesnt want to say that so they keep promoting the lame false narrative of "Cheering for a Killer" rather than say "Gee, we have a broken political system owned by special interests at the expense of the common good and its screwing people over."

I have a young woman who works for us who wont go to the doctor for troubles she is having, because she does not want another bill. She is paying part of her premium monthly too. The system isnt working for you unless you have money.

Single Payer costs less for everyone and has better outcomes overall. Anyone who studies economics knows health care does not have good market conditions. Consumers lack information to make good decisions. Market forces do not produce the outcomes you want. Its not selling cars or paper towels.
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Not to mention that there is almost zero price elasticity of demand for most healthcare spending.
 
michaelskis said:
The difference this time is it is so public. This has been happening for over 200 years in various capacities. Just take the Jekyll Island Accord in 1910 which resulted in multiple changes in 1913 to the federal government structure as we know it. In the 1800's, the Planters, Rail Roads, and Industrialists all had extremely powerful lobbying efforts that went way beyond what we accept as lobbying today. J.P. Morgan was Elon Musk in the late 1800's.
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...I have just had a crystal ball vision of Trump so infuriating Musk one day in the oval office that Musk strikes one blow, just as Billy Budd did in Melville's masterpiece novel. The blow knocks Trump to the floor dead, and Musk is sent to prison and stripped of his federal contracts. Vance, way over his head, is left with an emasculated Congress that flips way Democratic in midterms.
 
fringe said:
...I have just had a crystal ball vision of Trump so infuriating Musk one day in the oval office that Musk strikes one blow, just as Billy Budd did in Melville's masterpiece novel. The blow knocks Trump to the floor dead, and Musk is sent to prison and stripped of his federal contracts. Vance, way over his head, is left with an emasculated Congress that flips way Democratic in midterms.
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Wow. Murder. Interesting vision.
 
michaelskis said:
What are your thoughts on Biden commuting 37 out of 40 federal death row inmates?

Personally, I have mixed feelings on it.
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Death penalty is pretty much gone in Europe. It also wastes a lot of time and effort due to endless appeals. Remember too Joe is a Catholic, with all the baggage that goes with it
 
fringe said:
Death penalty is pretty much gone in Europe. It also wastes a lot of time and effort due to endless appeals. Remember too Joe is a Catholic, with all the baggage that goes with it
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Well, the he did meet with the Pope the week before and the death penalty was one of the items of discussion.
 
michaelskis said:
What are your thoughts on Biden commuting 37 out of 40 federal death row inmates?

Personally, I have mixed feelings on it.
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I'm not a huge proponent of the death penalty. In too many cases, the system is flawed. The death penalty doesn't act as a detriment to anyone. The best case is it gives "justice" to the victims family, but often they say it doesn't. I hope to never be in the position to know.

The three he didn't commute are all committed truly horrible acts. While I'm not in favor of the death penalty, I don't have sympathy for them.
 
Seems it can be a little pricey to worship with Trump? Do you at least get one of his Bibles too?

www.rawstory.com

'Pay-to-pray': Trump reportedly charges supporters $100K to attend church service with him

The day before his inauguration, President-elect Donald Trump will reportedly be attending an interfaith prayer service in Washington D.C. His wealthiest supporters can also attend — if they write or solicit a big enough check.That's according to a recent report in Religion News Service, which...
www.rawstory.com www.rawstory.com
 
michaelskis said:
What are everyone's thoughts on the illegal immigrant who set a woman on fire in NYC?


This guy was detained and deported in 2018 and returned sometime later. Why would he do something like this and was it a random attack or something more. Do you think something like this raises to the level of terrorism?
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Violence against women is not a new thing. One woman dying at the hands of a man is too much. In the US, on average almost 3 women per day are killed by an intimate partner. Link Where is the outrage in the news for all those women?

I think the connection to terrorism is a far reach and this has more to do with misogyny.
 
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