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NEVERENDING ♾️ The NEVERENDING Political Discussion Thread

If Trump wins, I question my place in this country and my 25 year career was for nothing. Yeah, about sums it up. It will be hard to stay in my job much longer, even on the verge of a huge road project for us that I got major funding for. I work for elected officials that are non partisan, but support him. I don't think I can keep doing that.
 
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Step 1: Schedule a rally
Step 2: Book a warmup act like maybe a comedian
Step 3: Hold the rally & hear the comedian's jokes
Step 4: Disavow the comedian because he told racist jokes at your rally

Only the best and brightest

 
I voted today (early voting). As I looked at the first section of my ballot, an overwhelming feeling of disappointment fell over me. I knew who the choices for president were so there was no surprise. But it was once again an indication that the system is broken if this is who we are choosing from.
 
There's a line from the movie "The American President" that I've often reflected on. Yes, I will absolutely concede that there is a pretty liberal slant to that movie but the point of the quote is quite valid:

How do you have patience for people who claim they love America, but clearly can't stand Americans?

That's what I see anymore in campaigns. And it's beyond depressing.
 
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fringe said:
A cpl of Texans bringing their fight home?

www.theguardian.com

Two women removed from BA flight ‘after altercation over Maga cap’

Punches were allegedly exchanged in ‘extraordinary’ incident that delayed plane at Heathrow for two hours
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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A fragile person if all takes is a cap to get you riled up like that. I'm sure there is a good example of reversed rolls. Not taking sides with any political ideology on this one. If such minor item makes you act that way whether it comes from the right or the left, you are a weak person.
 
SlaveToTheGrind said:
A fragile person if all takes is a cap to get you riled up like that. I'm sure there is a good example of reversed rolls. Not taking sides with any political ideology on this one. If such minor item makes you act that way whether it comes from the right or the left, you are a weak person.
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I think you are 100% correct and it is sad that we live in a society where so many people get so offended with things. It is one thing to pass judgement on someone wearing something, but to come out and take action because you are offended is a bit much. Back in NC, a neighbor had on a pro-choice shirt at a block party. As someone who is pro-life, I chose not to engage because that is what she was looking for someone to do. It wasn't the proper time or place to have that conversation.

But it does make me wonder of where is the line of common decency. Personally, I try to not wear things that would offend other people because it is not worth it for me. I know others like to because of the attention that they get by doing it. But where that is that threshold of going too far?
 
Decency is out the window. The Kari Lake (running for senate) campaign has signs that quote our current senator (Ruben Gallego) where he is discussing if Jan 6 rioters (protestors) attacked him "I would kill those motherf**kers" Yep, I get to drive by that sign every day. Just reinforces the Ruben is the one with family values. When asked about the signs his campaign did not answer.
 
michaelskis said:
so many people get so offended with things. It is one thing to pass judgement on someone wearing something, but to come out and take action because you are offended is a bit much.
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There are some people who perceive the wearing of MAGA hats as an outright admission that the wearer is a racist misanthrope. There are some people that do not like racists and, further, are extremely uncomfortable being around people that wear their racism so nakedly. Is it merely someone being "offended" that incites these troubling public altercations? Can observers of such incidents consider the idea that the perpetrators are likely afraid (not lowkey offended) and also consider that we can travel and go about our business without displaying messages that seemingly convey what's really in our cold dead hearts?
 
Wannaplan? said:
There are some people who perceive the wearing of MAGA hats as an outright admission that the wearer is a racist misanthrope. There are some people that do not like racists and, further, are extremely uncomfortable being around people that wear their racism so nakedly. Is it merely someone being "offended" that incites these troubling public altercations? Can observers of such incidents consider the idea that the perpetrators are likely afraid (not lowkey offended) and also consider that we can travel and go about our business without displaying messages that seemingly convey what's really in our cold dead hearts?
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That is the problem. MAGA hats ≠ racist. Many believe that which is sad. Racism comes in all shapes and colors. Not exclusive to white people.
 
I just amuse myself by totally ignoring the fact someone has a shirt, hat or whatever that has some view (extreme or not) that differs from my own. I believe what I believe and no one's garb is going to be the reason I change my opinions. If you are in a PUBLIC place and are so triggered that you then have to initiate violence you have much bigger problems than what someone is wearing.
 
SlaveToTheGrind said:
MAGA hats ≠ racist.
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But for many, the hat is a heuristic for the character of the person wearing it.

btrage said:
Do we have a comprehensive list of everyone who has said they're moving out of the country if their candidate loses??
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I need to catch up with my liberal relatives on this. They've been threatening since May to move to Canada if Trump wins, but I think they would need to line up a realtor soon to facilitate a fast and timely move.
 
Wannaplan? said:
But for many, the hat is a heuristic for the character of the person wearing it.
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No doubt hats are magical...just look at all those church hoods and don't mention English crowns.
In our area a ball cap with a goatee and a pickup cap gun rack gives you all the regalia you need to break across a parade line or even a funeral one.
 
Wannaplan? said:
But for many, the hat is a heuristic for the character of the person wearing it.
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Do you personally believe a person wearing a MEGA hat is racist?

I will just say that I don't. Some might be, but not all are.

I have made repeated stance that I don't support Trump and have never, nor will ever, vote for him. But I also know a lot of people who will vote for Trump, including family. Some of which who do have, and wear those hats. I can publicly declare that I do not believe they are racist.

I think this is a clear representation of the political induced divide that we have in this country with absolutist thinking. I have a good friend who is furious with me because I turned my back on the pro-life movement by voting for someone other than Trump. If I were to wear a Harris T-shirt, would that make me pro-choice? No. It was a choice of the lesser of the two evils. Same goes for wearing a MEGA hat. While I don't agree with who they are voting for in the federal election, I am not going to assign Trumps attributes to them.
 
michaelskis said:
Do you personally believe a person wearing a MEGA hat is racist?

I will just say that I don't. Some might be, but not all are.

I have made repeated stance that I don't support Trump and have never, nor will ever, vote for him. But I also know a lot of people who will vote for Trump, including family. Some of which who do have, and wear those hats. I can publicly declare that I do not believe they are racist.

I think this is a clear representation of the political induced divide that we have in this country with absolutist thinking. I have a good friend who is furious with me because I turned my back on the pro-life movement by voting for someone other than Trump. If I were to wear a Harris T-shirt, would that make me pro-choice? No. It was a choice of the lesser of the two evils. Same goes for wearing a MEGA hat. While I don't agree with who they are voting for in the federal election, I am not going to assign Trumps attributes to them.
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I don't believe people in the hat are automatically racist. But I do believe that they have decided being racist and a candidate welcoming racism into his support base is okay, thus enabling and lending credibility to racism.

A have a friend in a similar boat (passionate in being in favor of abortion restrictions), but that cast his vote for Harris. He had a hard time, but concluded that Trump ultimately violated his greater pro-life perspective in all human life having equal value. And he felt Trump was unlikely to provide the necessary support to support children and families, which he feels is an essential element that comes with abortion restrictions. But he is also someone that feels abortion restrictions need strong endorsement related to cases of rape, life of mother, and empowerment of doctors judgement without risk in determining. That helped him resolve his moral dilemma.

It is a big reason he and I get along well--I'm not supportive of abortion restrictions, but we share common ground on the issue of "pro-life being as or more important beyond birth." That "pro-life" goes beyond pregnancy termination policy and well into safety net/supportive policies.
 
SlaveToTheGrind said:
So that hat magically makes a person discover who they really are?
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I'm just pointing out that the sentiment exists, the hat is indeed a heuristic for many people. It exists, and your question feels politically naive. I am not making a value judgement here, there are actual people out there who see the MAGA hats and immediately think the worst.
 
So what drives a person to build a giant wood cutout of their favorite political person and just drive around town with the thing strapped in a trailer? Just saw one today. I hate bumper stickers, but that's an easy thing to just slap on the car. I'm not going to wear political shirts or hats (my wife does), but that's just clothing you throw on. This is actively looking for people to either praise you or hate you for your political views. I just chalk it up to overcompensating for other things in your life, but thanks for creating more unnecessary traffic.
 
Wannaplan? said:
Okay, so you do understand the sentiment exists. Absolutist thinking does exist. We all may not like it. But it exists.
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It does exist and it is a problem. When it is all or nothing there is no room for open discussion, collaboration, or learning from each other. It's just a my way or the highway mentality. We need to get past that thinking if we are going to move forward.



But I asked what you thought. If someone wears a MAGA hat, do you automatically assume they are racist?


DVD said:
So what drives a person to build a giant wood cutout of their favorite political person and just drive around town with the thing strapped in a trailer? Just saw one today. I hate bumper stickers, but that's an easy thing to just slap on the car. I'm not going to wear political shirts or hats (my wife does), but that's just clothing you throw on. This is actively looking for people to either praise you or hate you for your political views. I just chalk it up to overcompensating for other things in your life, but thanks for creating more unnecessary traffic.
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Wow, that is a new one. I mean I see a lot of MAGA and Trump flags flying from trucks around here, but not a wooden cutout. I hope they at least did a good job...
 
michaelskis said:
But I asked what you thought. If someone wears a MAGA hat, do you automatically assume they are racist?
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I don't automatically assume, but it is a virtue signal that prompts me to internally ask the question or view them with skepticism/mistrust because of its affiliation with racism.

Everyone makes attribute/appearance-based judgements--if you don't think you do that, you are probably kidding yourself. These are often innocuous judgements, but they also quickly crossover to stereotypes, bigotry and racism. Those factors influence whether you choose to interact with them. I'll flatly say I avoid most folks wearing national candidate apparel, but especially MAGA clothing articles.

Not all that different from when I see someone driving a cybertruck around here--I presume Musk fanboy bro and generally avoid.
 
Suburb Repairman said:
I don't automatically assume, but it is a virtue signal that prompts me to internally ask the question or view them with skepticism/mistrust because of its affiliation with racism.

Everyone makes attribute/appearance-based judgements--if you don't think you do that, you are probably kidding yourself. These are often innocuous judgements, but they also quickly crossover to stereotypes, bigotry and racism. Those factors influence whether you choose to interact with them. I'll flatly say I avoid most folks wearing national candidate apparel, but especially MAGA clothing articles.

Not all that different from when I see someone driving a cybertruck around here--I presume Musk fanboy bro and generally avoid.
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I admit that I do and I catch myself doing it a lot more and ask why I feel that way. With the last election I was getting it from both sides because I didn't vote for Trump or Biden and people automatically assumed that I was all for one or the other. It pissed me off. Since then I try to make a point to act least recognize my preconceived or unintentional biases and internally challenge my own thinking with it.
 
I don't automatically think those people are racists, but I do think they are willfully ignorant and I don't want to interact. You can't fix stupid so to say.

However, I also say that opinions are not facts. I have mine and you have yours.
 
michaelskis said:
It does exist and it is a problem. When it is all or nothing there is no room for open discussion, collaboration, or learning from each other. It's just a my way or the highway mentality. We need to get past that thinking if we are going to move forward.



But I asked what you thought. If someone wears a MAGA hat, do you automatically assume they are racist?



Wow, that is a new one. I mean I see a lot of MAGA and Trump flags flying from trucks around here, but not a wooden cutout. I hope they at least did a good job...
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The problem isn't if I think a person is racist for wearing a MAGA hat. The problem is racism is attached to the hat and the person wearing the hat should be aware they are showing a symbol of racism to a segment of society, but they don't care. They think it's either I'm not racist so it's fine or F your feelings which they know isn't right but do it anyway.

Yes, the cut out was very well done. It was maybe 8' tall with some kind of print job and was maybe 1' thick. It was a substantial piece of work.
 
DVD said:
So what drives a person to build a giant wood cutout of their favorite political person and just drive around town with the thing strapped in a trailer? Just saw one today. I hate bumper stickers, but that's an easy thing to just slap on the car. I'm not going to wear political shirts or hats (my wife does), but that's just clothing you throw on. This is actively looking for people to either praise you or hate you for your political views. I just chalk it up to overcompensating for other things in your life, but thanks for creating more unnecessary traffic.
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I have never worn political regalia of any kind and have no bumper stickers. That said I have and do wear more than one Big Lebowski theme shirt, so you could label me as "Dudist".
 
btrage said:
View attachment 63558
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My wife was trying to describe some sort of Big Lebowski themed sign she saw on a lawn, and it said something about "aggression". This must have been it. She said the same neighborhood where she saw that had a ton of "Wu Tang Forever" signs, two houses next to each other with opposing Kang and Kodos signs, some sign about "All Hail Lord Megatron" and something else. I may have to run through that neighborhood this weekend to check them out.

In 2020 there was a neighborhood near me that had a bunch of houses with "Free the Nipples 2020!" signs. Not quite sure what was up with that, but okay. (Sadly?) They don't seem to have those signs out this year.
 
Maister said:

Clap Reaction GIF
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I mean, a little late to the show with that, but 100% agree with Greenfield. I've never understood undecided "probable" voters, especially in the modern era with so much information easily accessible (provided they have the critical thinking to discern facts).

From my experience, people that claim "independent" or "undecided" actually aren't. Undecided voters are a myth, and always have been. They are simply disengaged and not voters, and don't want to admit it. I also think “independent voter” is code for “I lean one way but am embarrassed to admit it” or “I want to pretend like I’m thoughtful and sophisticated” or “holy hell I just want to avoid a political conversation like the plague.” I’m even an example. My family is/was conservative/GOP, so I identified as Indy to avoid the conversation until i truly came out as what I call “spicy liberal” in 2008, although I had voted Democrat 2000-2004 (when I was 18-22) without advertising it.

My brothers are now "homeless" Romney/country club/Grand Rapids Republicans and "compassionate conservative" branding of Bush II (which they recognize now was all hat no cattle marketing they fell for). They voted for Clinton in 2016 due to moral objections to Trump, then Biden in 2020 and Harris in 2024 for similar reasons but inflected with their comfort with Biden and Harris's policies. They weren't real happy about it, but felt they had no other choice and that Harris best aligned with their beliefs. My brothers are now coming to terms with "maybe they've been a democrat all along without realizing it." It is also getting influenced by their growing dissatisfaction with the Texas GOP (they hate Ken Paxton and Dan Patrick in particular, and thus by extension Greg Abbott).
 
As posted on Twitter
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Liz Cheney @Liz_Cheney · 6h
This is how dictators destroy free nations. They threaten those who speak against them with death. We cannot entrust our country and our freedom to a petty, vindictive, cruel, unstable man who wants to be a tyrant.
#Womenwillnotbesilenced #VoteKamala


Opinion: Trump dreams of executing Liz Cheney. Gabby Giffords reminds him of the reality
www.azcentral.com

Opinion: Trump dreams of executing Liz Cheney. Gabby Giffords reminds him of the reality

Trump doesn't care that some MAGA kook could actually execute Liz Cheney. Gabby Giffords, a victim of political violence, speaks out about that.
www.azcentral.com
 
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