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NEVERENDING ♾️ The NEVERENDING Political Discussion Thread

what was the DNC thinking when they agreed to allow Biden to do this interview? 15 minutes in and he comes across an old guy with dementia.

Please Joe, step aside and let someone else run. You can’t beat Tump.
 
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Reaction to MTG

Congresswoman — this bag of hammers is formally challenging you to a debate. Do you accept?
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FUN FACT: One of the signers was a literal dinosaur, and I have the picture to prove it.
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WAG
Trump teases about naming a running mate, but I think he will tell the convention he has not decided, and may well not decide. In 2016 he wanted daughter Ivanka to be his mate, and he could not understand his advisors' telling him that cannot happen. I don't think he wants a running mate anyway.
 
Joe's family has to pull the plug on this. It's literally elder abuse at this point to keep trotting him out there. :| :indifferrent:
Two plus weeks of nothing but bad press for the Dems. Nobody shoots their feet quite as spectacularly as the Dems.

Meanwhile, Trump is laughing all the way to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
 
Two plus weeks of nothing but bad press for the Dems. Nobody shoots their feet quite as spectacularly as the Dems.

Meanwhile, Trump is laughing all the way to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
It really is something isn't it? You've got the biggest blowhard I've ever seen and the Dems can't even run someone who is fully aware of his surroundings. I mean you can't confuse your VP with the guy you're running against. You just can't do it. I'll also say this. If the Dems think the answer is to run further to the left that's a huge mistake.
 
I think the only absolute right now is that Biden won’t beat Trump and the DNC knows it.

The question is who do you think would be able to beat Trump? Personally, I think if they can find a younger policy savvy individual who is charismatic, they could win in a landslide.
 
I think the only absolute right now is that Biden won’t beat Trump and the DNC knows it.

The question is who do you think would be able to beat Trump? Personally, I think if they can find a younger policy savvy individual who is charismatic, they could win in a landslide.
The only way to beat Trump is to run a center-left candidate (which you could argue Biden was in 2020), except the DNC has gone fully to the far left since then.
 
I think the only absolute right now is that Biden won’t beat Trump and the DNC knows it.

The question is who do you think would be able to beat Trump? Personally, I think if they can find a younger policy savvy individual who is charismatic, they could win in a landslide.

Their answer is sitting in the Michigan governor's office right now. Go Gretchen+Mayor Pete and basically double-down on the the swing-state midwest. Both of them have the savvy and rizz to put Trump in a box and ship him to Russia.
 
Their answer is sitting in the Michigan governor's office right now. Go Gretchen+Mayor Pete and basically double-down on the the swing-state midwest. Both of them have the savvy and rizz to put Trump in a box and ship him to Russia.
A current co-worker of mine who spent time in DC politics said that a Whitmer / Cooper ticket would be unstoppable.
 
gish gallop
'It’s a rhetorical technique in which someone throws out a fast string of lies, non-sequiturs and specious arguments, so many that it is impossible to fact-check or rebut in the amount of time it took to say them. Trying to figure out how to respond makes the opponent look confused, because they don’t know where to start grappling with the flood that has just hit them.'
 
I would hope this would be enough to get our country to slow down the direction of hate we have going. I am also acutely aware it will not, as it doesn't seem like any amount of violence or rhetoric is enough anymore.

I have seen people on the D side cheering this, or saying they wish that insane person had better aim - I hope you reevaluate those thoughts and statements. Your rhetoric of hate of Donald Trump isn't okay either.

I have seen people on the R side blame the D's for heightened rhetoric, which "caused" this action by the insane person - I hope you can step back and realize that former President Trump has been an extremely vocal cause of a lot of the heightened rhetoric and hate we see today in all level's of government. AND that this wasn't D's who are now guilty of causing an insane person to act like this.

For me, if we can even take one step back to where we can again look at people working in the government as people first - that is a win. You can hate in your mind, but when you work so hard to hate people online, or hate people at public meetings, or anywhere else - you are making our country and our world worse.

It is okay to disagree. It is okay to not like what people are saying. BOTH the D's and R's are getting worse and worse about acceptance of differing opinions. We can do better.
 
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Thoughts...

I think that this will change things politically... for a few weeks. After that, the rhetoric will go right back to the way it was. We as a country react to these situations but it does not change how we do things beyond a few weeks. I do think that the most impactful element of what happened was the photo after the incident of a defiant Trump shaking his fist surrounded by the secret service with a bloody ear and the American flag behind him. I think that will be the symbol of the remainder of the campaign.

I think this will change this operationally for the secret service. As more and more video and information comes out regarding the shooting, it is more and more apparent that they seriously dropped the ball.

I don't think that the shooter acted alone. He might have been the only person at the rally, but there are way too many weird things about his background from what the news is reporting.
 
Thoughts...

...I think this will change this operationally for the secret service. As more and more video and information comes out regarding the shooting, it is more and more apparent that they seriously dropped the ball...

From some of the stuff I have read, it sounds like there may have initially been some confusion as to whether or not the guy who took the shot was a member of some law enforcement organization which prevented snipers from the security teams from stopping him before the shots. There were teams there from the local PD, the local sheriff's department, state police, FBI, Secret Service, and Trump's own private security detail, that is a ton of moving parts, and IMO, way too many chiefs any orders would need to go through before a shot could be taken and too many opportunities for confusion over who has the ability to make decisions for any particular member of the law enforcement teams, especially when things are moving so quickly. I definitely would expect some changes to security protocols going forward
 
Tragic. The Classified Docs case against tRump was just dismissed because Judge Cannon ruled Jack Smith did not have the authority to bring the case against him.
 
Tragic. The Classified Docs case against tRump was just dismissed because Judge Cannon ruled Jack Smith did not have the authority to bring the case against him.
With any luck, this ends her involvement in the case, which would be a very good thing, IMO.

She'll probably be Trump's nominee for SCOTUS when he stuffs the bench.
 
Thoughts...

I think that this will change things politically... for a few weeks. After that, the rhetoric will go right back to the way it was. We as a country react to these situations but it does not change how we do things beyond a few weeks. I do think that the most impactful element of what happened was the photo after the incident of a defiant Trump shaking his fist surrounded by the secret service with a bloody ear and the American flag behind him. I think that will be the symbol of the remainder of the campaign.

I think this will change this operationally for the secret service. As more and more video and information comes out regarding the shooting, it is more and more apparent that they seriously dropped the ball.

I don't think that the shooter acted alone. He might have been the only person at the rally, but there are way too many weird things about his background from what the news is reporting.
I read that SS pegged the shooter building as a problem but nobody made sure to post just one officer there. The sniper that shot him had to be sure he was in fact a shooter.
 
JD Vance for VP. Logical pick. Hoping to pick up voters in the blue wall states, younger guy, ex-military.
 
JD Vance for VP. Logical pick. Hoping to pick up voters in the blue wall states, younger guy, ex-military.
Not sure I see it. He is from very close to me. Ohio is a solid R state now. He is mini-Trump. He was a very controversial pick for Senate in Ohio and hasn't seen large support even from the R side.

He certainly checks the box of Trump not being out shined.

It also assures Trump gets Elon Musk to donate $45million a month for his campaign. So that is likely the real reason.
 
So given the events of the past few weeks, what do you think are the odds of Biden winning this thing?
Zero. He's not winning. Anyone who is honest with themselves can't think that he's physically or mentally capable of holding the office. And I know people say "yes, but he's got good people around him". But that's the problem. That can't be your choice. The other people aren't elected. Contrast the two - one who can't remember the name of his own vice president and the other who was just shot and is angrily shaking his fist. In the absence of leadership people will take what is offered. That's why people will drink the sand in a mirage. Not saying I agree with it but that's the reality we have. And as I have said for a very long time, the leaders of the DNC should be ashamed that it has even come to this.
 
(SNIP) Contrast the two - one who can't remember the name of his own vice president and the other who was just shot and is angrily shaking his fist. (SNIP)
I don't like Trump but I would never wish harm on him.

But from a pure marketing perspective, you are not going to get another image quite as iconic as this one. Granted there is so much wrong with this photo (ie, Trump not following direction from secret service, Trump further exposing himself to potential risks...) but still, if there was a image that represented the message that his PR people are trying to convey, this is it. They tried to make the mugshot a marketing tool, but I would be surprised if this image isn't already being printed on T-shirts and posters.

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I don't like Trump but I would never wish harm on him.

But from a pure marketing perspective, you are not going to get another image quite as iconic as this one. Granted there is so much wrong with this photo (ie, Trump not following direction from secret service, Trump further exposing himself to potential risks...) but still, if there was a image that represented the message that his PR people are trying to convey, this is it. They tried to make the mugshot a marketing tool, but I would be surprised if this image isn't already being printed on T-shirts and posters.

View attachment 62872
My point exactly. I don't like him either but I don't wish physical harm on him.

Someone yesterday at work said "it's a miracle he wasn't killed." I said "I'm not sure the family of the poor guy who was killed thinks it's much of a miracle".
 
From what I heard, Biden cannot step down, and as many (including Dems) want him to do until after the nomination as all political contributions will then go to the next Dem candidate. This is likely Harris. Trump can play the assassination attempt in his favor or against. In true Trump fashion, he'll take the low road. I see three directions this election can go: 1. Biden stays in the race, wins, steps down at some point in the term and Harris takes over. 2. Biden steps down after the nomination in favor of Harris and loses the election - I see this as unburdening what has been. 3. Trump is elected.
 
Zero. He's not winning. Anyone who is honest with themselves can't think that he's physically or mentally capable of holding the office.

It's very hard to see how Biden will be able improve his position, but there are plenty of scenarios where his position will continue to get worse. Yes, his campaign has been defiant up to this point, but I'm pretty sure Biden will not want his legacy permanently tarnished because he refused to drop out. At the current pace of the news cycle, August 19th for the convention is still a very, very long time from now. I think a lot of the indecision among the DNC thus far is not because people are on the fence about his chances improving. Rather, Harris' chances against Trump will be far better if Biden steps down with some dignity and simultaneously endorses her as the best way to continue his first term.
 
It's very hard to see how Biden will be able improve his position, but there are plenty of scenarios where his position will continue to get worse. Yes, his campaign has been defiant up to this point, but I'm pretty sure Biden will not want his legacy permanently tarnished because he refused to drop out. At the current pace of the news cycle, August 19th for the convention is still a very, very long time from now. I think a lot of the indecision among the DNC thus far is not because people are on the fence about his chances improving. Rather, Harris' chances against Trump will be far better if Biden steps down with some dignity and simultaneously endorses her as the best way to continue his first term.
Harris is unelectable, just like Hillary was. They better come up with another plan.
 
Harris is unelectable, just like Hillary was. They better come up with another plan.
Again, Whitmer looks like a stellar answer, especially with Mskis suggestion of coupling her with Cooper out of NC. And those are actual swing states (Ohio is not). And Whitmer makes for an interesting forced contrast in how people reacted to the planned kidnapping of her vs. the assassination attempt on Trump. I also think both have better working class credibility than Vance. And both can play the "D.C. outsider" card while also leveraging their experience working with state legislative bodies that swung between parties. Call it a "git-'r-done" ticket focusing on practical success.
 
The Daily Show had a rant on the philosophy that we need to keep Biden in the race, and suggested that having the Dems actually go through a process to develop a new ticket would be a good outcome. I think that, after the clear mental gaffes Biden has had, plus the stellar photograph that was taken of Trump raising his fists during the attempted assassination, there does not seem to be a path forward. Biden (and Trump) are simply too old and on the downhill swing. The photo is a huge base motivator. Having one person being an objectively better person simply isn't enough to move the needle, and sticking with the same play seems awful.

The Dems need to find younger, more energetic, and sincere individuals on the ticket to change the tides. If they can pull that off, having a debate with Trump would help better showcase how bad Trump's acuity actually is.

Whitmer seems like a possible choice. Cooper is too old, in my opninion. I still think Pete Aguliar would be a good person to consider, and would help with the latino vote as well. But he's from California, which has become an dirty state in the minds of the rest of the nation.

california GIF
 
I wonder if Whitmer (or any other possible choice besides Harris) would even want it though, knowing it's still an uphill battle at this point? Why would they want to tarnish their reputations with a possible loss, knowing they could just wait it out 4 years and actually run a complete campaign? I would need to see some serious polling data showing I was well ahead of Trump before I would agree to it.
 
Which have you watched -

MLB Home Run Derby & All Star Game
RNC National Convention
Something else
OR
Didn't turn on the TV?
 
Again, Whitmer looks like a stellar answer, especially with Mskis suggestion of coupling her with Cooper out of NC. And those are actual swing states (Ohio is not). And Whitmer makes for an interesting forced contrast in how people reacted to the planned kidnapping of her vs. the assassination attempt on Trump. I also think both have better working class credibility than Vance. And both can play the "D.C. outsider" card while also leveraging their experience working with state legislative bodies that swung between parties. Call it a "git-'r-done" ticket focusing on practical success.
I was thinking about it, and Whitmer would need to be the head of the ticket. She say way more charisma than Cooper. On top of that, as a woman, I think that works in her benefit to contrast the Trumps behavior and history.

Personally, I would vote for that ticket all day long over Trump.

Having said that, I think @btrage is right. There would need to be some significant polling data to support the decision.

Which have you watched -

MLB Home Run Derby & All Star Game
RNC National Convention
Something else
OR
Didn't turn on the TV?
None of the above. Someone said to watch Madam Secretary. I had never watched it before so I thought that I would give it a shot.
 
Which have you watched -

MLB Home Run Derby & All Star Game
RNC National Convention
Something else
OR
Didn't turn on the TV?

My oldest and I have been working our way through Legend of Zelda TOTK again so we've been watching each other play that in the evenings lately.
 
The DNCs biggest risk right now is paralysis by analysis. If they want to set up a process to pick a new candidate, then they need to get on it yesterday and then get out of the way and let it play out. If they want to make a safer bet (in terms of avoiding a worst case scenario at the convention) then they should pick Harris asap and rally behind her. Either of those options should be preferred to staying on their current trajectory. Harris may not be the strongest candidate, but she's hardly unelectable IMO and certainly Biden's preferred pick when it comes to articulating success over the past 4 years.

The strength of the DNC always hinged on presenting themselves as the adults in the room, so they really need to figure out a way to pull the base of the party together on a unified message and do it fast. A big mistake from the DNC was not seeing the possibility if this scenario and failing to cultivate Harris as a candidate over the past 4 years. Obama built a deep bond with Biden during his term, why didn't the Biden team do the same with Harris?
 
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