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NEVERENDING ♾️ The NEVERENDING Political Discussion Thread

To let Coach BigBob bully his team into taking that knee robs his team members of protection from Establishment of Religion.
I think the point the Supremes are making is that the establishment clause has been misinterpreted for years. They are oddly, trying to make religion more important under law, when it seems that is becoming less important in a growing number of people's lives.

It is an odd time for sure.

====

This is one of the most relatable political ads ever.

 
I think if you are an atheist, and if you have a child on a public school sports team, and you witness the coach initiating and leading a prayer with the team, you ought to do two things.

First, have a conversation with your child. Ask your child if he/she is okay with the prayer. Guage her/his comfort level with the words that were shared by the coach. I would do this because I want to give my child agency, and I don't see myself indoctrinating a young, impressionable mind, I want to encourage my child to think for himself/herself.

Second, after the conversation with the child, and if the child is uncomfortable with the prayer, I believe a phone call to the school's principal and/or athletic director is in order. The gist of the phone call would be to project upon the administrator(s) that the coach-initiated prayer is likely unnecessary and inappropriate and that we need to come to terms if there will be consequences if a student doesn't actively participate in the prayer. And further, given that the team does have a diversity of beliefs (because my child is uncomfortable with the prayer) among the players, then what will the school do to accommodate differing beliefs such that, perhaps a non-denominational moment of silence would be more appropriate as it better promotes the concept of a team, so all students are playing together for the same goal, and putting forth the effort to make sure, on this base level, that all are included.

This is what I would do. Or at least this is what I've rehearsed in my head in preparation should that day ever come.

I agree with so much of what you posted, especially the part that is highlighted. That way if the Coach wants to take a knee to pray at the end of the game, and other students want to do something that corresponds with their beliefs, then they should be awarded that right.


To shift gears, has anyone been following West Virginia vs. the EPA? There is some speculation that this ruling could also come down from SCOTUS this week. I don't fully know the details of the case, but from what I hear, there were some changes to advance environmental protection and the EPA's role in it that did not sit well with some Coal companies. In most cases, I support the EPA, and I would not be surprised if this is also one of those situations.


Finally, my wife and I were talking about all of this yesterday and how the division between people continues to grow deeper and deeper, and it raised the question of do you think that there will ever be unification of one people, or do you think both sides will continue with the my way or the highway stance? This comes after an old friend who was very close unfriended my wife and I on social media and canceled their visit this fall because we are pro-life instead of pro-choice.
 
I think the point the Supremes are making is that the establishment clause has been misinterpreted for years. They are oddly, trying to make religion more important under law, when it seems that is becoming less important in a growing number of people's lives.

It is an odd time for sure.

====

This is one of the most relatable political ads ever.

Love that ad. It doesn't say vote for me because I'm right or left. It says vote for me because I plan to do something and oh yeah, my opponent is an old fart just like everyone else in politics. I do get the right to hold this against him when he's 80 and still in politics though.
 
I know that the GOP has the standing comment about crime rates in Democrat run cities, but I wonder if there is an actual causation, is it correlation, or is it something else? We have a medium size democrat run City not too far from us, and it is almost a routine to hear about a shooting over there on the morning news. However a few weeks ago we were talking about crime in general with our police chief, and she indicated that violent crime is going up all over the place. It hit home for us yesterday as there was a shooting a few blocks from City Hall during mid afternoon. It does not sound like it was a random event.

Personally, I don't buy into the idea that a Democrat Mayor is more likely to take action, or lack there of, that causes increased crime rates. I am not even sure if people believe that those who are commit crimes or associate with those who do vote in these elections. But when you look at the crime rates, the highest violent crime rates are almost all democrat run cities. What do you think is the cause for this association?

 
I think it's just a correlation thing. Big cities are having an increase in crime. Cities tend to be more liberal. I think the GOP is trying to paint a false utopia picture of cities. Especially San Francisco. Like SF is some perfect city and they need to show every little crime like it represents the collapse of society.
 
I'm no Conservative by any means, but I think San Francisco/California are revolting places and the sh*tlibs who run the place are doing nothing but making the situation worse. SF used to be such a countercultural city! I do not think a summer of love could happen in the SF of today, too expensive.

I think rising crime is most definitely a problem in American cities, and I see it happening in New York, Subway crimes are up, street violence is up. But, I don't think Tough on Crime/Broken windows is the solution here, addressing root causes of violence are. But it's more easily said than done, especially in this late capitalist hellscape we live under. Liberals (who have never been mugged) think token measures that make a drop in the bucket are the answer. Conservatives think that more police and prisons will solve the problem, but we did that in the 90s and it didn't work. NUMTOTs think all our urban pathologies will disappear if we just ban cars, and YIMBYs will say that "if we just built more luxury condos". But, what we really need is rent control, Medicare for all, universal basic income, universal volvos and reinvigorated robust federal funding of new public housing, but I am essentializing here and getting into fully automated luxury space communism territory, so Ill quit while I'm ahead.

Regarding last weeks big news: I attended the 200,000 strong Pro-Choice Rally in Washington Square park this past friday. It was the first time I went to a protest since just after Charlottesville. I was so outraged that I immediately made my way from my office directly to the rally after work. It was cathartic being among a crowd of that magnitude, but sad that we needed to be there in the first place. This supreme court is out of control.
 
I think it's just a correlation thing. Big cities are having an increase in crime. Cities tend to be more liberal. I think the GOP is trying to paint a false utopia picture of cities. Especially San Francisco. Like SF is some perfect city and they need to show every little crime like it represents the collapse of society.
Why do you think that big cities have higher per/capita crime rates?
 
Why do you think that big cities have higher per/capita crime rates?
Just more people in one place. We can get into all the ills of society about the poor and down trodden and why they are, but there are just more in a larger city hoping for some opportunity. Sometimes that opportunity is crime. I also think in smaller towns everyone knows everyone so we tend not to treat people we know as bad.

EDIT: Also apartments are a hot bed of crime. Just listen to any public hearing for apartment zoning.
 
Just more people in one place. We can get into all the ills of society about the poor and down trodden and why they are, but there are just more in a larger city hoping for some opportunity. Sometimes that opportunity is crime. I also think in smaller towns everyone knows everyone so we tend not to treat people we know as bad.

EDIT: Also apartments are a hot bed of crime. Just listen to any public hearing for apartment zoning.
And greenways... you forgot how greenways welcome crime.

I ask about the Crime in cities because I think it is really interesting in the context of what we do. Personally, I don't know the answer, and I would hope that density does not have something that invites crime, but I don't think that political affiliation of the mayor has anything to do with it. I do wonder if there are cultural elements and distrust of police that are indicative of larger metropolitan areas that have more of a relationship with crime, but that is only speculation on my part.

I remember reading something from Fredrick Law Olmsted where he thought that more parks and green spaces would result in less crime. Being that NYC and Chicago have some of the greatest parks in the world and some of the highest crime rates, I don't think that is true.
 
For those who were in the military, what would happen if you disobeyed a direct order?


Reason I ask is I just read an article about a former Nazi Concentration Camp guard who was sentenced to 5 years in prison for his participation. BTW, he is 101 years old.

Don't get me wrong, what happened and what he did was inexcusable, but from what I have been reading, for the Nazis who didn't follow orders, both the guards and their families were tortured and killed. After WWII many went into hiding in fear of prosecution. It makes me wonder what our solders would if they were given orders that they knew were absolutely wrong.
 
Members of the military have an obligation to disobey unlawful orders.
Is that you Tom Cruise?
1656437591318.png
 
Every time I hear a story about something wrong in a Dem run city like crime I think somewhere in the Joker's underground hideout he's just plotting and waiting. Now that Gotham has a Dem mayor it's time to strike while the city is week boys! Either that or the White Stipes cause and effect song.

1656439377975.png

 
On his May 11, 2021, program Carlson talked to Sen. Ron Johnson (R-Wis.) about Johnson’s decision not to receive a coronavirus vaccine. As Carlson agreed with Johnson — “Well of course; it’s your body, your choice, as we’ve heard for almost 50 years,” the Fox News host said — a chyron displayed the body-autonomy message. “Making an informed choice regarding your own body shouldn’t be controversial,” read the text at the bottom of the screen.
 
I know that the GOP has the standing comment about crime rates in Democrat run cities, but I wonder if there is an actual causation, is it correlation, or is it something else? We have a medium size democrat run City not too far from us, and it is almost a routine to hear about a shooting over there on the morning news. However a few weeks ago we were talking about crime in general with our police chief, and she indicated that violent crime is going up all over the place. It hit home for us yesterday as there was a shooting a few blocks from City Hall during mid afternoon. It does not sound like it was a random event.

Personally, I don't buy into the idea that a Democrat Mayor is more likely to take action, or lack there of, that causes increased crime rates. I am not even sure if people believe that those who are commit crimes or associate with those who do vote in these elections. But when you look at the crime rates, the highest violent crime rates are almost all democrat run cities. What do you think is the cause for this association?


And the worst states are the red ones; Alabama, Mississippi, Kentucky. Poor education, poor health, poor housing. Etc etc etc
 
I'm no Conservative by any means, but I think San Francisco/California are revolting places and the sh*tlibs who run the place are doing nothing but making the situation worse. SF used to be such a countercultural city! I do not think a summer of love could happen in the SF of today, too expensive.

I think rising crime is most definitely a problem in American cities, and I see it happening in New York, Subway crimes are up, street violence is up. But, I don't think Tough on Crime/Broken windows is the solution here, addressing root causes of violence are. But it's more easily said than done, especially in this late capitalist hellscape we live under. Liberals (who have never been mugged) think token measures that make a drop in the bucket are the answer. Conservatives think that more police and prisons will solve the problem, but we did that in the 90s and it didn't work. NUMTOTs think all our urban pathologies will disappear if we just ban cars, and YIMBYs will say that "if we just built more luxury condos". But, what we really need is rent control, Medicare for all, universal basic income, universal volvos and reinvigorated robust federal funding of new public housing, but I am essentializing here and getting into fully automated luxury space communism territory, so Ill quit while I'm ahead.

Regarding last weeks big news: I attended the 200,000 strong Pro-Choice Rally in Washington Square park this past friday. It was the first time I went to a protest since just after Charlottesville. I was so outraged that I immediately made my way from my office directly to the rally after work. It was cathartic being among a crowd of that magnitude, but sad that we needed to be there in the first place. This supreme court is out of control.

Space Communist? Are you a 4th Dimensional Marxist?
 
Every time I hear a story about something wrong in a Dem run city like crime I think somewhere in the Joker's underground hideout he's just plotting and waiting. Now that Gotham has a Dem mayor it's time to strike while the city is week boys! Either that or the White Stipes cause and effect song.

View attachment 57543
Haha nice!

People seem to think cities are always democrat run. I submit, for your consideration, cities like Amarillo. It is bright, bright red, but has exceptionally high crime, teen pregnancy and STI rates in the nosebleed seats, and a monumental drug addiction problem. Cities like that are tiny experiments demonstrating that "Dem Mayor" is not a cause or even a symptom of issues. In fact, I can make a pretty good argument that GOP-led cities have a greater tendency to abdicate responsibility or take action on issues.
 
And the worst states are the red ones; Alabama, Mississippi, Kentucky. Poor education, poor health, poor housing. Etc etc etc

Do you have data to back that up. I am not disagreeing with you, but that is why I include links because I trust data.

People seem to think cities are always democrat run. I submit, for your consideration, cities like Amarillo. It is bright, bright red, but has exceptionally high crime, teen pregnancy and STI rates in the nosebleed seats, and a monumental drug addiction problem. Cities like that are tiny experiments demonstrating that "Dem Mayor" is not a cause or even a symptom of issues. In fact, I can make a pretty good argument that GOP-led cities have a greater tendency to abdicate responsibility or take action on issues.

How is Amarillo in the context of other communities? You indicate that it has high crime, but where does it call in per-capita of similar sized municipalities?

Most major cities do have Democrat mayors. Not all, but most.
 
Most major cities do have Democrat mayors. Not all, but most.
Chicago does have a Dem Mayor, but if one actually listens to her on crime issues, she's a hard ass, but there's more retirement than replacement in the Chicago PD and there are piles and piles of illegal guns flowing into the City that really no one would reasonably be able to affect unless they started using less than ethical and/or moral policing measures.
 
With the rare exceptions of maybe a handful of the most populous cities in America, I don't think the political affiliation of mayors or city council members really makes much of a difference in city government. If a lot of mayors or council members were running for a state legislator position, they'd probably have a different letter next to their name. I think a lot of the local politicians run as an R or a D because they know that in that particular community they will likely only get elected if they are one or the other.
 
Chicago does have a Dem Mayor, but if one actually listens to her on crime issues, she's a hard ass, but there's more retirement than replacement in the Chicago PD and there are piles and piles of illegal guns flowing into the City that really no one would reasonably be able to affect unless they started using less than ethical and/or moral policing measures.

For murders and shootings, things are better than a year ago. I would be interested in knowing the details of the programs to help keep illegal guns off the street. There needs to be more of that.

 
For murders and shootings, things are better than a year ago. I would be interested in knowing the details of the programs to help keep illegal guns off the street. There needs to be more of that.

I'll have to research it more. Thanks for the cite.
 
Do you have data to back that up. I am not disagreeing with you, but that is why I include links because I trust data.
Educational attainment by state, use the drop down menu to select the level of educational attainment and click the table column headers to sort. https://data.ers.usda.gov/reports.aspx?ID=17829 (Education)

2021 Health Disparities Report https://assets.americashealthrankin...th-disparities-comprehensive-report_final.pdf
2021 Health Disparities Report State Summaries https://assets.americashealthrankin...health-disparities-report-state-summaries.pdf

Housing quality data is a little trickier to come by on a state by state basis, most reporting is done on metropolitan and regional areas rather than entire states. HUD issues an annual report to Congress called the Worst Case Housing Needs. Here's the 2021 report https://www.huduser.gov/portal/sites/default/files/pdf/Worst-Case-Housing-Needs-2021.pdf
 
I'm just guessing, but I would think Amarillo might have some issues because of several reasons.
Size, bigger city, bigger problem, but if you compared it to other cities of similar size it might have more. I have no numbers, just guessing.
It's relatively isolated. People have fewer opportunities because just picking up and moving to Dallas is easier said than done and it's not an easy commute.
It's on a major transportation route. Lots of illegal stuff gets funneled through cities like that. That was the big thing in Kansas was to knock down human trafficking's and drugs along I-70. The state worked with all the small towns to make it uncomfortable for criminals. I would think it's harder for Amarillo to accomplish that.
 
Educational attainment by state, use the drop down menu to select the level of educational attainment and click the table column headers to sort. https://data.ers.usda.gov/reports.aspx?ID=17829 (Education)

2021 Health Disparities Report https://assets.americashealthrankin...th-disparities-comprehensive-report_final.pdf
2021 Health Disparities Report State Summaries https://assets.americashealthrankin...health-disparities-report-state-summaries.pdf

Housing quality data is a little trickier to come by on a state by state basis, most reporting is done on metropolitan and regional areas rather than entire states. HUD issues an annual report to Congress called the Worst Case Housing Needs. Here's the 2021 report https://www.huduser.gov/portal/sites/default/files/pdf/Worst-Case-Housing-Needs-2021.pdf
@kjel be all like:

meme_you-asked-for-it-so-i-shall-deliver.jpg


Nice.
 
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Educational attainment by state, use the drop down menu to select the level of educational attainment and click the table column headers to sort. https://data.ers.usda.gov/reports.aspx?ID=17829 (Education)

2021 Health Disparities Report https://assets.americashealthrankin...th-disparities-comprehensive-report_final.pdf
2021 Health Disparities Report State Summaries https://assets.americashealthrankin...health-disparities-report-state-summaries.pdf

Housing quality data is a little trickier to come by on a state by state basis, most reporting is done on metropolitan and regional areas rather than entire states. HUD issues an annual report to Congress called the Worst Case Housing Needs. Here's the 2021 report https://www.huduser.gov/portal/sites/default/files/pdf/Worst-Case-Housing-Needs-2021.pdf
wedding brooklyn GIF
 
Educational attainment by state, use the drop down menu to select the level of educational attainment and click the table column headers to sort. https://data.ers.usda.gov/reports.aspx?ID=17829 (Education)
Wow... these stats really surprise me. Other than DC, every other state has less than a 50% college completion rate and less than a 1/3 of the US?

When you dig deeper, Cook County IL has one of the higher college completion rates, but also has a very high crime rate as well. Same goes for NYC.
 
And the worst states are the red ones; Alabama, Mississippi, Kentucky. Poor education, poor health, poor housing. Etc etc etc
Having lived in the South most of my life, I think people here don't realize how much crime, especially murders take place. We average under 10 homicides every year. That's no where near as many of as a big city. But on a per capita basis we're almost always at 20-25 per 100,000. About a month ago, WSJ or some other national publication had an article about the "Rural Crime Wave".

I actually heard two local police officers, not from my town, say we only get random crime and domestic violence. In their opinion, you really can't stop that....

Looking at national statistics, we are always bottom of the barrel. The running joke in Alabama is "Thank God for Mississippi" or we'd be dead last in every positive ranking.
 
Educational attainment by state, use the drop down menu to select the level of educational attainment and click the table column headers to sort. https://data.ers.usda.gov/reports.aspx?ID=17829 (Education)

2021 Health Disparities Report https://assets.americashealthrankin...th-disparities-comprehensive-report_final.pdf
2021 Health Disparities Report State Summaries https://assets.americashealthrankin...health-disparities-report-state-summaries.pdf

Housing quality data is a little trickier to come by on a state by state basis, most reporting is done on metropolitan and regional areas rather than entire states. HUD issues an annual report to Congress called the Worst Case Housing Needs. Here's the 2021 report https://www.huduser.gov/portal/sites/default/files/pdf/Worst-Case-Housing-Needs-2021.pdf
3bbd1e94ac3e9ab71fd19f97113e091b.gif
 
Ah sure... I just asked for the data behind it. I never said that I didn't agree with it. I just like data that's all.


Getting back to SCOTUS, the Retirement of Justice Breyer has been in the works for a while and will be effective at noon tomorrow.


My question to you is in light of RGB's death during the Trump presidency, do you think more Justices will retire while their party is in office vs serve until death?
 
My question to you is in light of RGB's death during the Trump presidency, do you think more Justices will retire while their party is in office vs serve until death?
Supreme Court Justices are technically not members of any political parties. Seems less and less to be the case with each passing administration.
 
Supreme Court Justices are technically not members of any political parties. Seems less and less to be the case with each passing administration.

Just because they don't have a letter behind their name, does not mean they are not associated with a party.
 
Do you have data to back that up. I am not disagreeing with you, but that is why I include links because I trust data.



How is Amarillo in the context of other communities? You indicate that it has high crime, but where does it call in per-capita of similar sized municipalities?

Most major cities do have Democrat mayors. Not all, but most.

I don't have easy access to primary data, but this is a decent summary. Incidentally, Lubbock and Odessa are both quite high.
https://www.thecentersquare.com/texas/amarillo-tx-is-among-the-most-dangerous-us-metro-areas/article_e26ade6d-ebec-54e9-a4c0-1f89e57a09ba.html (Amarillo, TX Is Among the Most Dangerous US Metro Areas)
 
Wow... these stats really surprise me. Other than DC, every other state has less than a 50% college completion rate and less than a 1/3 of the US?

When you dig deeper, Cook County IL has one of the higher college completion rates, but also has a very high crime rate as well. Same goes for NYC.

If you pull up the data by state but then break it out by metro area v non-metro area (or counties in metro areas v those in non-metro areas), you can see some real stark differences within each state.
 
Ah sure... I just asked for the data behind it. I never said that I didn't agree with it. I just like data that's all.


Getting back to SCOTUS, the Retirement of Justice Breyer has been in the works for a while and will be effective at noon tomorrow.


My question to you is in light of RGB's death during the Trump presidency, do you think more Justices will retire while their party is in office vs serve until death?
I think Justice Breyer is retiring because of what has transpired with the process of the recent nominations to SCOTUS. More justices should contemplate this given how broken the Senate's approach has been.
 
I think Justice Breyer is retiring because of what has transpired with the process of the recent nominations to SCOTUS. More justices should contemplate this given how broken the Senate's approach has been.
I'd say the Mitch McConnel-induced Constitutional crisis where the Senate failed to discharge their duty to vote yes or no on Merrick Garland's nomination to the Supreme Court significantly increased the partisan nature and function of the Court.
 
I'd say the Mitch McConnel-induced Constitutional crisis where the Senate failed to discharge their duty to vote yes or no on Merrick Garland's nomination to the Supreme Court significantly increased the partisan nature and function of the Court.
100%
 
I would be absolutely APPALLED if it had been some democratic Senate majority leader that tried to pull that sh**. Rest assured Roe V Wade would still be the law of the land if the GOP had not pulled off that naked and unconstitutional power grab.
 
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