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NEVERENDING ♾️ The NEVERENDING Political Discussion Thread

Is it or was it Michigan or Minnesota ?

DO TRUMP’S LAWYERS KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING?​

www.powerlineblog.com

Do Trump's Lawyers Know What They Are Doing?

Today several of President Trump's lawyers, including Rudy Giuliani and Sidney Powell, held a press conference in which they alleged that they have convincing if not conclusive evidence that the presidential election was rigged, and that in addition to garden variety voter fraud, hundreds of...
www.powerlineblog.com www.powerlineblog.com
Here’s the problem: the townships and precincts listed in paragraphs 11 and 17 of the affidavit are not in Michigan. They are in Minnesota. Monticello, Albertville, Lake Lillian, Houston, Brownsville, Runeberg, Wolf Lake, Height of Land, Detroit Lakes, Frazee, Kandiyohi–these are all towns in Minnesota. I haven’t checked them all, but I checked a lot of them, and all locations listed in paragraphs 11 and 17 that I looked up are in Minnesota, with no corresponding township in Michigan. This would have been obvious to someone from this state, but Mr. Ramsland is a Texan and the lawyers are probably not natives of either Minnesota or Michigan.

Evidently a researcher, either Mr. Ramsland or someone working for him, was working with a database and confused “MI” for Minnesota with “MI” for Michigan. (The postal code for Minnesota is MN, while Michigan is MI, so one can see how this might happen.) So the affidavit, which addresses “anomalies and red flags” in Michigan, is based largely, and mistakenly, on data from Minnesota.

This is a catastrophic error, the kind of thing that causes a legal position to crash and burn. Trump’s lawyers are fighting an uphill battle, to put it mildly, and confusing Michigan with Minnesota will at best make the hill steeper. Credibility once lost is hard to regain.
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so maybe a future shift to libertarian philosophy - military only which includes CIA and maybe homeland security (but really, that could easily be housed in FBI but I could be swayed otherwise) and leave everything else to the states?

I do think, if we are going to bottom base of the role of federal government that there is a need for federal involvement in:

Natural disasters, so FEMA, Weather Service and the like
Pandemics, so CDC, and our science agencies
Crime crossing state boundaries, so FBI
Natural wonders, so Interior
Highways and transportation that crosses state lines

obviously IRS stays

The military is the biggest hog of tax dollars so ironically people would barely see a blip in their tax reductions and then things like HUD, Food & AG, Rural Dev't, EDA, Social Service and EPA would be left to the states which means they won't happen anymore - and these department all have programs that have proven to work well - all could use a kick in the pants on how they operate but not deal breakers - so the decision would be what happens if these all go away and what do we want to do about that

what's too bad is this is the kind of discussion I'd like to see in a congressional committee or led by the President or VP, but they do what we all complain about with our own chief elected officials sometimes: no process, just politics, get your state's projects funded and negotiate to get it and no why are we here conversations
 
State senator returns from DC. Looks like the media stalked him this time, the Fems for Dems activists having started the trend of airport visits.

Rather than stop, gather them around, hold a mini-news conference, be an adult and answer questions ... he starts singing. A hymn.
When he landed in DC he launched into one that relates to persecution.



also that mask violates the US Flag Code
 
What a phrase spoken in court -

a nonzero number of people
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apnews.com

Trump's legal team cried vote fraud, but courts found none

PHILADELPHIA (AP) — As they frantically searched for ways to salvage President Donald Trump's failed reelection bid, his campaign pursued a dizzying game of legal hopscotch across six states that centered on the biggest prize of all: Pennsylvania.
apnews.com apnews.com
 
I was hoping Biden would appoint younger folks, Generation X at least, to some positions but John Kerry as climate guru isn't making me feel like that's going to happen
 
From https://www.cagle.com/cartoons/page/3/

245925.png
 
luckless pedestrian said:
I was hoping Biden would appoint younger folks, Generation X at least, to some positions but John Kerry as climate guru isn't making me feel like that's going to happen
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While I get your point, I feel like our standing with other world leaders (Russia, North Korea aside) has been knocked down many notches, and major federal agency human capital has been devastated. Essentially we need to regain some of this capital, and unfortunately, the folks like Kerry can re-establish this capital. I truly feel the Biden administration will be a repair and bridge administration, with Biden only serving 1 term.
 
arcplans said:
While I get your point, I feel like our standing with other world leaders (Russia, North Korea aside) has been knocked down many notches, and major federal agency human capital has been devastated. Essentially we need to regain some of this capital, and unfortunately, the folks like Kerry can re-establish this capital. I truly feel the Biden administration will be a repair and bridge administration, with Biden only serving 1 term.
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This is my feeling as well. The current administration has done so much damage to our standing on the world stage and bringing in so many "outsiders" who had no experience or idea of what they were doing, especially at the top levels, only hurt us further. There has also been massive brain drain and a loss of institutional knowledge in places like the State Department and DoD and the Justice Department. I think the Biden team realizes this and sees how important it is to be able to hit the ground running on day 1 if they want to repair as much damage as they can, both internally and externally.

That's a lot easier to do with experienced folks who have existing connections, who are well respected, and who know how these departments are supposed to run than it is with younger people in these roles. There will also be tons of nominations for deputy and assistant and undersecretary roles that we won't hear as much about initially. It's more likely that the Biden team will tap much younger people, or people from more diverse/unconventional backgrounds, for these positions than would typically be nominated.
 
luckless pedestrian said:
I was hoping Biden would appoint younger folks, Generation X at least, to some positions but John Kerry as climate guru isn't making me feel like that's going to happen
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What he's doing is choosing establishment people that have been approved by the senate for other posts. He wants a team working ASAP and so he's not going to go for glitzier selections. Here's an article that talks about his strategy.

His first goal is to re-establish the proper workings of the government agencies under his control. I like his non-controversial, pragmatic approach. Here's a statement from the article that explains why he's not going with younger picks:

This is not a moment for on-the-job training or the hope that an unorthodox selection would grow in office. A pandemic, a stalled economy, and a scorched-earth defeated president have left Biden with no room for maneuver or error.
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Biden was not the candidate I was most excited about, but I'm starting to come around that he may be exactly the right person for the position at this time.

It does look like he is taking extra effort to increase the diversity as far as appointments of well-qualified women and minorities in cabinet and other high-ranking positions. I'm cautiously optimistic.
 
gtpeach said:
Biden was not the candidate I was most excited about, but I'm starting to come around that he may be exactly the right person for the position at this time.

It does look like he is taking extra effort to increase the diversity as far as appointments of well-qualified women and minorities in cabinet and other high-ranking positions. I'm cautiously optimistic.
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As long as McConnell is around and majority leader he will stonewall Biden at every turn. Our only hope is the Georgia senate races go blue and with Harris as VP, the 50-50 deadlock will be broken.

It's a long shot, but if McConnell can be neutered, that is the only way that anything will be able to be accomplished over the next two years. Because you can bet that right out of the gate the GOP will conspire to do anything they can to destroy the economy in any way the can to try and get another Tea Party Coup at mid terms. There will be no "honeymoon" As we learned then, and is especially true now, they thrive on the chaos, the mayhem, and human suffering and misery.
 
It might not be just the GOP stonewalling a Biden administration. AOC and her crew are threatening to make a big stink over some potential appointments. The Democratic Party is at a real crossroads. There's a reason the "Blue Wave" didn't happen. The sooner the party comes to grips with why that didn't occur they can then decide what they want to be. I see a big schism coming.
 
MD Planner said:
It might not be just the GOP stonewalling a Biden administration. AOC and her crew are threatening to make a big stink over some potential appointments. The Democratic Party is at a real crossroads. There's a reason the "Blue Wave" didn't happen. The sooner the party comes to grips with why that didn't occur they can then decide what they want to be. I see a big schism coming.
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I agree. I think the Republicans have a huge question ahead, as to who they want to be, especially with Trump saying he wants to run in 2024... but the Democrats are going to have more pressure because they hold the White House.

AOC is either going to be successful in getting policies that a minority of Democrats want and angering the centrist and pragmatic Democrats who want to work with the Republicans and likely getting nothing accomplished, or she is going to be unsuccessful, angering the ardent Left Wing of the Democrat party that wants a revolutionary change in how we govern our country and will not accept incremental change.

I don't see how in these times we will ever see the kind of changes we saw with FDR. We are likely going to get small changes that hopefully make life better for people. I like the idealists, but in this world, where both parties are openly hypocrites (although the Republicans are better at it), finding pathways to shared ground is so much more important than standing on a hill that will never be climbed.

Doohickie said:
I like his non-controversial, pragmatic approach.
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I already miss the days where we find out who is in a position that could affect our country and world by Tweet. Or who is fired by tweet.

Alas, we move forward in these boring times....:ha:
 
Has anyone else given any thought as to what the potential impacts might be if any sort of prosecution for Trump's alleged crimes might be?

If any federal charges are pursued, and it sounds like they possibly could be, and Trump is convicted, is that brushed off by his base as being politically motivated? If Biden doesn't pardon him at that point, what does that do to him/the Democratic party politically? If Biden DOES pardon him, what does that do in terms of his working relationship with the rest of the Democratic party?

If state charges are pursued, my understanding is that Biden is insulated a little bit more, since I believe the POTUS can only pardon federal crimes. But it would probably still read as being politically motivated by his base.

Obviously, if there is a trial and Trump is not convicted, that is just more fodder for his base about how the system isn't fair and is biased against him/them.

It just seems like there's a lot of political fallout that could happen regardless of the outcome.
 
It will be up to an independent DOJ (remember when we actually had those?) and not the President whether or not federal charges are pursued. As to the reasons whether state and/or federal charges should be filed, it's important to demonstrate to the public that Presidents are not above the rule of law. Without rule of law, we cease to be a democracy. If you or I committed half of the crimes that 'unindicted co-conspirator 1' has allegedly committed, we'd be wearing orange jumpsuits and applying to the parole board.
 
I have read opinion pieces both for and against federal charges. Personally, I favor an independent DOJ charging him and his cabal based at least on the obstruction charges explicitly documented in the Mueller Report. Nobody is above the law, and, as Maister notes, if it were us, we'd be doing a stretch in some SuperMax somewhere. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
 
Maister said:
It will be up to an independent DOJ (remember when we actually had those?) and not the President whether or not federal charges are pursued. As to the reasons whether state and/or federal charges should be filed, it's important to demonstrate to the public that Presidents are not above the rule of law. Without rule of law, we cease to be a democracy. If you or I committed half of the crimes that 'unindicted co-conspirator 1' has allegedly committed, we'd be wearing orange jumpsuits and applying to the parole board.
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But Biden would still ultimately have to decide whether or not to pardon him (assuming Trump is unable to pardon himself), which was what I was thinking about as far as repercussions that Biden may or may not experience.

My point is that even if it is pursued by a "completely independent" DOJ, the perception from much of his base is that it will still be politically motivated. I'm wondering what the implications of that might potentially be.

For the record, I do believe no one is above the law and that justice should be sought. I'm just wondering what the cost of "doing the right thing" in this scenario might be.
 
gtpeach said:
My point is that even if it is pursued by a "completely independent" DOJ, the perception from much of his base is that it will still be politically motivated. I'm wondering what the implications of that might potentially be.

For the record, I do believe no one is above the law and that justice should be sought. I'm just wondering what the cost of "doing the right thing" in this scenario might be.
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Prosecutors frequently run into situations where victims of spouse abuse escape the clutches of their abusers and later on want no part in testifying in court against their abuser. They'll frequently even ask prosecutors to drop charges against them. The decision to proceed, however, lies with the prosecutors, not the spouse, Prosecutors represent ALL the victims (ie. society) and you can see this reflected in the court pleadings e.g. The People of Virginia v Joe Schmuckatelli. Years later many of these victims of abuse come to realize that prosecuting the abuser was absolutely the right thing to do. The parallel here is if federal prosecutors decide to bring charges in The People of the United States v Donald Trump they will be representing ALL of the victims, which in the case of federal crimes is everyone. This includes republican victims as well as all other victims. Some republicans - like the battered spouses mentioned above - might not want charges filed against the perp but in the long run it's the right thing to do so long as it is initiated by an independent DoJ. If a federal prosecutor doesn't think they can prove any federal laws were broken, then they shouldn't bring charges, but if they have compelling evidence that federal crimes have been committed they absolutely should charge the individual responsible even if that person used to be the POTUS. I'm not a prosecutor but I've heard lots of attorneys roll their eyes and say a first year law student could easily prove/convince a jury that 'unindicted co-conspirator 1' broke several federal laws.
 

Rudy Giuliani Says Goo Dripping From His Head Were 'Brains,' Used 'Rag' to Stuff It Back​

www.newsweek.com

Giuliani Calls Goo Dripping From Head 'Brains,' Used 'Rag...

After photos circulated online, a number of commentators speculated that the dark liquid drip on Giuliani's face was caused by a bad hair dye job.
www.newsweek.com www.newsweek.com

Trump lawyer's daughter pens savage takedown of dad​

au.news.yahoo.com

Trump lawyer's daughter pens savage takedown of dad

Caroline Giuliani pulls no punches when writing about her dad's role in the Trump administration's continued and unsubstantiated claims of voter fraud.
au.news.yahoo.com au.news.yahoo.com
 
Hink said:
reason.com

Libertarians Have No Home in Either Dominant Political Party

Which leaves the U.S. without a major party even slightly inclined to leave people alone to manage their own affairs.
reason.com reason.com

Interesting piece on the future of what was once a clear branch of the Republicans. I also learned that third party candidate Jo Jorgensen was pronounced YO not Joe. Interesting.
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Although....when does libertarianism become anarchy?

It seems many libertarians typically lean right on enough specific issues that create erosion of votes from one party given our system of winner takes all.
 
dw914er said:
That seems like a terrible place, and makes me worry about the future of rational thought with such an echo chamber.
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He says from within a discussion forum website specifically designed for city planners.

;)

The twitter-type social media platforms that diverge into topic/philosophy specific orientation are not unlike our little community here which is a hold over from the Web 2.0 generation.
 
mendelman said:
He says from within a discussion forum website specifically designed for city planners.

;)

The twitter-type social media platforms that diverge into topic/philosophy specific orientation are not unlike our little community here which is a hold over from the Web 2.0 generation.
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Fair point, but I think there is difference to be made for our topic-based community and how Parlor works.
 
mendelman said:
It seems many libertarians typically lean right on enough specific issues that create erosion of votes from one party given our system of winner takes all.
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Texas during the pandemic is proof that libertarianism, the idea that left to their own devices people will do the right thing, is invalid.
 
The BOS for the County I used to work for millions of years ago just passed a resolution to declare themselves a "First Amendment Sanctuary" in response to our governor's latest round of restrictions. Is this a nation-wide thing?
 
gtpeach said:
The BOS for the County I used to work for millions of years ago just passed a resolution to declare themselves a "First Amendment Sanctuary" in response to our governor's latest round of restrictions. Is this a nation-wide thing?
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I am in a small subset since i am on the left coast, but no it is not. However, we do have a "recall" effort going on for the Governor.
 
Veloise said:
Bwahahahahahahahaha. They gonna try to kidnap him, too?
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Yea they already tried this, but they lost. It is the far right representatives, not the majority. Most people realize that the governor isn't out to get them, even though they don't like his shut down orders.

I personally think he has been reasonable. He hasn't closed everything, like many other states have. He hasn't gone as far as he reasonably could have. All he did was close stuff in the late hours, and ask everyone to wear a mask. Nothing crazy. Nothing special. Just reasonable requests...
 

Michael Flynn's Call for 'Martial Law' Comes Amid Violent Threats Over Trump Election Defeat​

www.newsweek.com

Flynn's Call for 'Martial Law' Comes Amid Violent Electio...

After his recent pardon by President Donald Trump, the retired general tweeted the inflammatory appeal on Twitter: "Freedom never kneels except for God."
www.newsweek.com www.newsweek.com

Former national security adviser Michael Flynn—controversially pardoned by President Donald Trump last week—on Tuesday retweeted a call for the White House to declare martial law and re-run last month's presidential election.

The appeal—made by the Ohio non-profit We The People Convention in a Washington Times advert Tuesday—urged the president to declare "limited martial law" in order to hold a new election.
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Hink said:
Yea they already tried this, but they lost. It is the far right representatives, not the majority. Most people realize that the governor isn't out to get them, even though they don't like his shut down orders.

I personally think he has been reasonable. He hasn't closed everything, like many other states have. He hasn't gone as far as he reasonably could have. All he did was close stuff in the late hours, and ask everyone to wear a mask. Nothing crazy. Nothing special. Just reasonable requests...
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They tried to kidnap him?

What was the plan? Civil war at the 'shoe? Drop him off on Put-In-Bay?
 
Veloise said:
They tried to kidnap him?

What was the plan? Civil war at the 'shoe? Drop him off on Put-In-Bay?
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No I meant they tried to have him impeached.

Also, I love that video of the lady who clearly doesn't understand how government works. She says, "I signed a paper that says if I lie I go to prison... did you?"

That has to be one of the best lines of the year... and it has been a terrible year.

---

Also, the idea that Barr isn't a Trump fan, or was a long play for the Democrats, speaks volumes on the effort that some people are going to rationalize what should be an easy thing. Your candidate lost. Most adults lose in life, and we all move on.


No, Barr was not part of a secret plot against President Trump. - The New York Times
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/02/...of-a-secret-plot-against-president-trump.html
 
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