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NEVERENDING ♾️ The NEVERENDING Political Discussion Thread

Does Melania deserve the criticism for what she did to the Rose Garden ?

Yes, she destroyed the beautiful cherry trees, and trees don't come back very fast. Also, what is a rose garden without roses?

Of the 12 'key speakers' at the RNC, 6 are tRUMPS...Don, Ivanka, Jr., Eric, Melania & Tiffany.

How would you like to be one of his stooges ardent supports like Devin Nunes and see the Tiffany out ranked you.

What does that say about the GOP? The DNC has all kinds of people and other dems doing the talking. The GOP has the tRump family and a couple toadies. Plus Scott Bayo!
 
Does Melania deserve the criticism for what she did to the Rose Garden ?
I don't understand why anyone cares what the Rose Garden looks like. I think if we allow the President and First Lady to make the White House what they want it to be, it is fine.

Who cares, would really be my answer, as there are a lot more important things that are much worse happening than what is changing in the Rose Garden. With that said, I don't find it that welcoming or attractive.
 
I don't understand why anyone cares what the Rose Garden looks like. I think if we allow the President and First Lady to make the White House what they want it to be, it is fine.

Who cares, would really be my answer, as there are a lot more important things that are much worse happening than what is changing in the Rose Garden. With that said, I don't find it that welcoming or attractive.

I mean I don't give a crap one way or the other, I just think that what she did was very indicative of how this administration has little regard to anything resembling an actual functioning presidency.
 
This is part of Trump policy platform:


ERADICATE COVID-19
  • Develop a Vaccine by The End Of 2020
  • Return to Normal in 2021
  • Make All Critical Medicines and Supplies for Healthcare Workers in The United States
  • Refill Stockpiles and Prepare for Future Pandemics

Got it. Let's just return to normal. What kind of platform is that? Huh?
 
My favorite part of the campaigning is the look at the riots and craziness going on. Yep, all under your administration. The dems didn't do it no matter how much you want to blame them.
 
My favorite part of the campaigning is the look at the riots and craziness going on. Yep, all under your administration. The dems didn't do it no matter how much you want to blame them.
Can you expand on this comment? Are you saying that conservatives are to blame for the riots? I know that there were instigators that were white supremacists, but I would like to hear more about what your intent is behind your comment.

I am also curious how many protesters were in Milwaukee for the DNC vs the protesters in Charlotte for the RNC. I know that they are in both and they have the right to, and heck, I even support much of what both sides have to say. I am just curious about the scope and numbers.
 
This is part of Trump policy platform:
Got it. Let's just return to normal. What kind of platform is that? Huh?

He apparently doesn't understand how vaccines work either. I'd be shocked if we get a functioning COVID-19 vaccine by the end of the year, much less by the end of 2021 or '22. Ebola got an FDA approved vaccine in December of 2019. Ebola has been around since the 1970's at least. Ebola has generally been limited to third world sub Saharan countries though, which are unfortunately generally forgotten by the western world despite the fact that thousands die each year from it. H1N1 by comparison got a vaccine fairly quickly...wonder why?!
 
Only political because of Falwell's affiliation with Trump, but here's another one of his ardent supporters that is now currently wrapped up in scandal:


(If you didn't see the news, Jerry Falwell, Jr. is currently taking a leave of absence from his job as Liberty University President while the Board of Trustees investigates some potential scandals. This has surfaced since that decision was made. There had been some rumors about a sexual relationship with a "pool boy" for the last couple years, but I had just kind of dismissed them as gossip.)
 
Can you expand on this comment? Are you saying that conservatives are to blame for the riots? I know that there were instigators that were white supremacists, but I would like to hear more about what your intent is behind your comment.

I am also curious how many protesters were in Milwaukee for the DNC vs the protesters in Charlotte for the RNC. I know that they are in both and they have the right to, and heck, I even support much of what both sides have to say. I am just curious about the scope and numbers.

You can't blame riots or protests on a political ideology that would be some false logic coming out. So I don't blame the pres for starting the riots or protests. Those happened for other reasons. What I can blame the president on are:
1. The response to the protests/riots has been to send in unidentified federal officers to violate people's constitutional rights which only serves to escalate the violence. Damn straight it went from protest to riot. I sure the hell would.
2. Tear gassing people peacefully protesting in DC because you wanted to do a photo shoot with a book that seems to burn your hand.
3. I'm sure you can find several other bad examples of response by the president relating to physical actions, cutting funding, rhetoric, name calling, or some other sample.
4. All of this is happening under tRump's watch, yet the GOP ads seem to portray this is what will happen under Biden's watch. Sounds like some bad logic to me.

You can mince words all you want, but comes down to a bad leader, a bad example, bad decisions, and a poor choice in words. Which makes it your fault, remember the buck stops here guy, I think he was a President or something.
 
Well tRump does encourage riots when he tweets "LIBERATE MICHIGAN" and protesters show up at the state house in semi-automatic rifles in full display.

How is that different to protesters in Lafayette Square? Oh yea, I forgot he didn't encourage those...
 
To be fair though, yes armed people showed up but there were no riots or destruction of property. Not taking a stance here, just pointing out that some seem more intent on destruction and mayhem than others.
 
I agree, it was not a riot in Michigan. It was also considered 'not a riot' at Lafayette Square until tRump wanted to take a stroll...I understand the differences, but I also understand the similarities. I think you get my point as well.
 
I agree, it was not a riot in Michigan. It was also considered 'not a riot' at Lafayette Square until tRump wanted to take a stroll...I understand the differences, but I also understand the similarities. I think you get my point as well.

Which situation are you talking about? There were riots in places like Grand Rapids this summer. When there is damage to others property and civil unrest, then I would classify that as riots.

As for riots, I am curious what everyone's thoughts are regarding last night in WI. Three people were shot, two of them died during the riots. It is suspected that those who where shot were looting and rioting and they were shot by people trying to protect businesses. The police are looking for them and it sounds like there is a real likeliness that they will be charged with murder.

I have not seen the details of the police shooting that caused all this so I can't pass judgement on that element. But as I have noted before, riots, looting, and damage of other's property is not an acceptable response.
 
I have not seen the details of the police shooting that caused all this so I can't pass judgement on that element. But as I have noted before, riots, looting, and damage of other's property is not an acceptable response.

That's the problem though. Apparently there are a fair number of people who DO think those actions are acceptable. If you want an eye-opener Google the WTOP interview with the leader of the BLM movement in DC. Wowsa.
 
The Michigan event I was talking about was this:
1598455400940.png


This is Lafayette Square before "the stroll":
1598455592243.png


Look at my original post, I did not mention riot in either one. I said protest. These events were treated differently simply because of their origins - who supported them. That was my point.


Wisconsin riots (& these are not civil protests) are something that I don't think is right at all.

The guy was shot 7 times in the back as he was getting in his car or reaching for something in his car
The persons involved have been put of leave pending investigation
Isn't that the normal procedure?

I don't know if its justified shooting or not? Optics are bad, but I wasn't there. But let's see what happens.
 
That's the problem though. Apparently there are a fair number of people who DO think those actions are acceptable. If you want an eye-opener Google the WTOP interview with the leader of the BLM movement in DC. Wowsa.

WOW... that is messed up. Under this person's thinking, if I don't agree with something, let's say... Trumps ignoring the constitution, I should be able to burn down her house in protest and she should be ok with it.

As for the stuff in Michigan and Lafayette Square, I agree. Those events both looked like peaceful protests. Even if I don't support the message, I support their right to do so.
 
I have not seen the details of the police shooting that caused all this so I can't pass judgement on that element. But as I have noted before, riots, looting, and damage of other's property is not an acceptable response.
Everyone should support police, except those that commit crimes. Everyone should support peaceful protesters, except those that commit crimes. It's really not that nuanced or even controversial from that standpoint.
 
Imagine you are Moscow Mitch McConnell. You spend 30+ years in the Senate finagling your way into power and finally win the biggest prize: Majority leader, and you get Donald J. Trump as your President. God surely has a bitter sense of humor.
 
One of the shooters was a white 17 year old - so not sure he owns a business

it's, as always with me, the hypocrisy that makes me so mad - the police are okay and have shown to support the people coming with guns to protest against BLM events but if anyone part of the BLM effort gets out of hand, then the whole movement is questioned

The DC incident with the planner having dinner outside - I counted 2 MAGA hats on people in that crowd harassing her - I don't usually play into conspiracy theories but the RNC convention wants the happy white suburban family to be scared of protesters - it's disgusting

I fear for the retribution on BLM protesters that are violent but if one of my kids or a family member got shot by a police officer for walking back to his car after breaking up a dispute, let me tell you I assuredly would not be a peaceful protester.

protests.jpg


and on the Rose Garden, as planners, we know that these things need approval - there is a regulatory group that reviews projects on the White House property - I am sure they were bullied into saying yes - it's bizarre they got rid of perfectly healthy trees and yes, the roses - the resulting design is blah and people have a right to be pissed about it - it's the people's house
 
Everyone should support police, except those that commit crimes. Everyone should support peaceful protesters, except those that commit crimes. It's really not that nuanced or even controversial from that standpoint.

Unless the crimes they're committing are designated as such in a direct attempt to keep them from advocating for themselves or seeking justice. Civil disobedience and all that.
 
I think there's some merit to the theory that a lot of the BLM protests that turn violent are egged on by police or other law enforcement. They know the pot is close to boiling over, and it looks a lot better for them if it does. I'm not saying that every protest that turned into a riot is caused by that, but I think some of it has been.
 
Unless the crimes they're committing are designated as such in a direct attempt to keep them from advocating for themselves or seeking justice.

What actions that are designated as illegal acts in any criminal code in the U.S. are "designated as such in a direct attempt to keep them from advocating for themselves or seeking justice"? Just curious...
 
Unless the crimes they're committing are designated as such in a direct attempt to keep them from advocating for themselves or seeking justice. Civil disobedience and all that.

Can you expand on that?

I was about to disagree with you with a long rant, but as I typed it out, I realized that there are situations where civil disobedience is justified. In these situations it is where the action itself goes in opposition to an unjust law or regulation. Rosa Parks for example did this and it was justified. The founding fathers did this when they signed the deceleration of independence. Harriet Tubman is another great example. By performing those actions each of these heroes broke the law but it was that specific law that needed to change.

I don't think owning a business with glass windows or having cars on a lot at an auto dealer are laws that need to change, thus the riots and burning of vehicles should never be tolerated.
 
I was about to disagree with you with a long rant, but as I typed it out, I realized that there are situations where civil disobedience is justified. In these situations it is where the action itself goes in opposition to an unjust law or regulation. Rosa Parks for example did this and it was justified. The founding fathers did this when they signed the deceleration of independence. Harriet Tubman is another great example. By performing those actions each of these heroes broke the law but it was that specific law that needed to change.

There's a difference between "civil disobedience" and "rioting" against unjust laws. Rosa Parks and Harriet Tubman didn't hurt other people with their actions. The laws they worked against were unjust and had no business existing in the first place.

Violent riots on the other hand....those are completely different. Damaging others property is illegal, as it should be. Rosa Parks didn't burn the bus down, she sat in a seat designated "whites only", and that was all. The problem is, her actions got real results. Harriet Tubman's actions got real results. The Founding Fathers certainly got real results from signing the Declaration of Independence. The time of "civil disobedience" getting real results has passed. Peaceful protests have amounted to nothing. No action from elected officials, no change from the status quo. That's why these protests are turning violent, because there's no answer to a quiet voice, so maybe it needs to be louder. Now I'm not saying burning peoples stores to the ground is the RIGHT answer, certainly not, but all of this could have been avoided if people just listened to the outcry in the first place instead of ignoring it and sweeping it under the rug until the next African American is killed unjustly by those who swore to protect them.
 
What actions that are designated as illegal acts in any criminal code in the U.S. are "designated as such in a direct attempt to keep them from advocating for themselves or seeking justice"? Just curious...

There have been recent instances where state legislators have passed new laws that make it illegal to peacefully protest against infrastructure projects or peacefully protest on public right-of-ways in ways that impede the normal flow of traffic or illegal to peacefully protest outside the homes of local politicians or in front of oil companies, etc. These laws really started to become more popular in the wake of the protests around Standing Rock and the related pipelines.

I don't know that any of these new laws have yet been challenged in court (and I'd be surprised if they were found to be constitutional every step of the way) and IMO these types of laws are passed solely to give authorities the right to stop protests and silence those who hold views contrary to the fossil fuel or other extractive industries or other industries with very strong local lobbying efforts.
 
There's a difference between "civil disobedience" and "rioting" against unjust laws. Rosa Parks and Harriet Tubman didn't hurt other people with their actions. The laws they worked against were unjust and had no business existing in the first place.

Violent riots on the other hand....those are completely different. Damaging others property is illegal, as it should be. Rosa Parks didn't burn the bus down, she sat in a seat designated "whites only", and that was all. The problem is, her actions got real results. Harriet Tubman's actions got real results. The Founding Fathers certainly got real results from signing the Declaration of Independence. The time of "civil disobedience" getting real results has passed. Peaceful protests have amounted to nothing. No action from elected officials, no change from the status quo. That's why these protests are turning violent, because there's no answer to a quiet voice, so maybe it needs to be louder. Now I'm not saying burning peoples stores to the ground is the RIGHT answer, certainly not, but all of this could have been avoided if people just listened to the outcry in the first place instead of ignoring it and sweeping it under the rug until the next African American is killed unjustly by those who swore to protect them.

I agree and I guess that was the point I was trying to make.

I also understand why they are turning violent, I just don't agree with that action and I think that they are making the situation worse instead of better. I think elements of society is starting to resent other elements and it is just creating greater hostility against each other. I think that we as a society need to stop screaming at each other and have meaningful discussions in an effort to change cultures to be more inclusive and understanding of each other. But continuing this course of action is just going to continue the spiral into hostility and violence.
 
I agree and I guess that was the point I was trying to make.

I also understand why they are turning violent, I just don't agree with that action and I think that they are making the situation worse instead of better. I think elements of society is starting to resent other elements and it is just creating greater hostility against each other. I think that we as a society need to stop screaming at each other and have meaningful discussions in an effort to change cultures to be more inclusive and understanding of each other. But continuing this course of action is just going to continue the spiral into hostility and violence.

Oh absolutely. And that ties into my first comment regarding the theory that some of these protests are turning violent because the "match" that lights the fire so to speak is someone with something to gain from the violence (IE, law enforcement or some other member of the public looking to inflame the violence).
 
Sometimes it's not a law that is creating a problem, but over zealous enforcement of some kind. Look at the Navy vet in Portland who was asking questions and beaten for it. I don't think he broke any laws, but that officer sure the hell did. What happened to the officer? I think there needs to be some reform to fix all this.

Other times laws are put in place like WSU talks about to quell protests before they even start. Then the powers that be can just say they were breaking the law. You don't want law breakers do you? How can you be for criminals? We have a history of laws like this or unequal enforcement of laws. We can do better.
 
This article says it all, and just reaffirms my belief that these intolerant religious nuts are ruining this country. There is not a day that goes by that I don't hate these bastards more than the day before. Their credo: "Better to wreck everything than let the liberals run it..."

GOP Persecution Complex 2020-08-27.jpg
 
With everything on regarding the police and Jacob Blake, it really makes me wonder if the greatest instigator is the media. I still don't believe the shooting was justified, there is so much that the media is not saying. I guess journalism exists just to get people worked up and not tell the entire truth.

I hear that several cities (including a large one near me) is issuing curfews for tonight and tomorrow. A couple months ago, there was riots and looting in core of the city and almost every first floor window was smashed and several buildings were looted on multiple nights.

I also believe that we live in a very sad time where a person can not express a disagreement with the main stream media's narrative without repercussions. Take Nick Sandmann for example. Sure, he is some punk kid who knew exactly what he was doing... but what happened to him and his family was still wrong. Everything is about initial optics as no one cares about the full story... only what the few seconds of video show.
 
If you have a twitter account, it's worth taking the time to read all the rants and responses from and to Jim Gaffigan - pour some coffee and read his unleashing - he's is obviously sick of the bullshit
 
If you have a twitter account, it's worth taking the time to read all the rants and responses from and to Jim Gaffigan - pour some coffee and read his unleashing - he's is obviously sick of the bullshit


and he's know for being apolitical from what I've seen. So this is something.
 
The Confederate Memorial in Lake Charles was taken down by Hurricane Laura.
Just a few months ago, the council voted 10-4 to keep the "South's Defenders" memorial on the courthouse lawn after several protests.

1598628372049.png
 
With everything on regarding the police and Jacob Blake, it really makes me wonder if the greatest instigator is the media.

Absolutely. There's no question that today's media is a huge driver in inflaming stuff like this. There's almost no un-biased news out there now. Trumpers watch Fox, Biden Bros watch CNN. I am a firm believer that both news media and social media are the root cause of a lot of societal issues now, especially bullying in schools.
 
Agreed, if you're getting your news from cable or the facebook you're doing it wrong. Sadly so many people rely on just that. It's okay to watch the political BS, but see what everyone is saying and maybe make sure it's accurate. Even the cable stuff lies anymore.
 
Agreed, if you're getting your news from cable or the facebook you're doing it wrong. Sadly so many people rely on just that. It's okay to watch the political BS, but see what everyone is saying and maybe make sure it's accurate. Even the cable stuff lies anymore.

What are the alternatives though? I mean obviously Facebook is a no go, but cable news is all there is now. Print news is essentially dead unless you want to pay some exorbitant fee and every print news website is behind a paywall.
 
What are the alternatives though? I mean obviously Facebook is a no go, but cable news is all there is now. Print news is essentially dead unless you want to pay some exorbitant fee and every print news website is behind a paywall.

As much as the folks on the right like to deride them, the news on NPR/PBS are pretty even handed. If you stay away from the editorials, the NYT, Washington Post have pretty good national and international coverage. The papers out of Chicago, Atlanta, LA and a few others are good as well. I get free access to a few of those sites if I use my library's portal. You can also go directly to the wire services like the AP and Reuters to see a lot of news, national and international.

If your cable carrier carries CBC, their nightly news program The National is very good and covers a fair amount of American news. The BBC and the Economist are pretty good too (though they have been straying more and more into editorializing in their news articles over the past few years).

Even many of the local affiliates for NBC, ABC, and Fox have pretty good evening news.

People like to complain about how evil the media is but there is plenty of good media out there. I don't think the problem is the media so much as it's people's habits to only get their news from one source and fail to be able to see the difference between commentary/editorial/opinion and actual journalism and viewers and readers failing to hold people media figures feet to the fire when they claim they are journalists but are obviously not and don't hold themselves to the same journalistic standards as what you'd get from somebody working for the wire services or the NBC Nightly News.
 
Daily Beast Opinion - RNC Convention:
GOP Tunes Out Hurricane, Cop Violence, and 180,000 Dead Americans

Secret Service Officer Who Shot Man Outside White House Mistook Comb for Weapon: Docs Say

Fox News Host Greg Gutfeld Pulls a 180 on Trump’s ‘Very Fine People’ in Charlottesville, Now Calls It a ‘Hoax’

Trump Advisers: He Was ‘Triggered’ by Talk of White Supremacy
Two disaffected officials describe a president who simply didn’t want to hear things he thought were bad for him.

Top Trump adviser Peter Navarro disparages Canada's military efforts in Afghanistan

Investigators are looking into whether an attack that killed several Marines in Afghanistan in 2019, including Delaware resident Christopher Slutman, was related to Russian bounties.

Father of Navy SEAL who died in raid in early days of Trump presidency issues a warning in ad
 
Few thoughts and I want to thank a fellow cyburbian for posting and having a great discussion of Facebook regarding the following as it relates to the news.

The police officer in Kenosha has been deemed a murderer and recast in public opinion based on what has been provided by the media.
Jacob Blake has been prorated as an innocent victim because the media has not been as vocal about why the police were there, why they were trying to arrest him, or the charges against him from July.
They only show one video, where as a second angle that shows him resisting arrest on the other side of the vehicle shows violent aggression against the officers. It also shows him not responding to being tased.
Kyle Rittenhouse was convicted immediately by the public and the video of him walking past the police is being shown as an example of how bad police are. The charges that I think are absolute is an underage person having possession of a semiautomatic weapon and crossing state lines with it. Beyond that, we really don't know if it was self-defense or not, but the fact is he should not have been there and he should not have been armed.

Rittenhouse walked past the police because he approached them with his hands up, made no motions that were threatening, and followed all their directions so there is no reason to suspect anything. Jacob Blake did not follow the instructions of the officer, resisted arrest, and became violent towards the police and then was either reaching for a knife in his car or trying to escape. I still don't think that the officer should have shot him. He turned himself in and he is still near the top of the front page and everyone knows his name. But do you know the name Darius Sessoms without having to look it up?

My point is the media has played the particular narratives to incite outrage in the public leaving out elements of the story. It is a horrible situation but the media only makes it worse.
 
This is the outrage of the nation. For some reason you are much more likely to be shot as a black man than anyone else. White men are generally not choked to death, shot seven times, killed with a knee on their neck or any other method the police use to "restrain" people. You can find examples and try to hold them up as some kind of proof, but the fact is black men are killed by police to the point that they are afraid to call police for help. It's not any one instance that we should focus on, it's every instance dating back to before I was born. Yes we can always justify the actions of police, but that's the problem, we keep justifying it or saying the media is twisting it rather than face the facts that we as a nation have a problem.
 
What's wrong with justifying something if that's what the facts bear out? Each instance has to be judged on its own merits. Justice has to work both ways.
 
The charges that I think are absolute is an underage person having possession of a semiautomatic weapon and crossing state lines with it. Beyond that, we really don't know if it was self-defense or not, but the fact is he should not have been there and he should not have been armed.

FWIW, he didn't cross the state lines with the gun, it was borrowed from someone he knew in Wisconsin. Technically, it never crossed any state borders. In Wisconsin, it is illegal for him to carry that type of gun under the age of 18. I think the self defense argument is fairly weak.

Your post just further hammers down the point that mainstream media (print, tv, social) is the bane of society. We are innocent until proven guilty, with the exception being unless the media has determined that you're guilty.
 
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