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NEVERENDING ♾️ The NEVERENDING Political Discussion Thread

Bubba said:
Kemp is actually really intelligent, and has mostly done a good job of administering from the middle after running a hard right campaign. The clarification that came out afterwards is that he was referencing the most recent CDC modeling; if he's terrible at anything, it's communicating things that are outside his area of expertise.
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Well he outright lied about knowing about the impact of covid and its transmission. Either that or he is just really stupid.

Either way, a lot of other people, including Fauci, who was screaming this in Febraury, were pretty clear. I guess he just wasn't able to express those words.... :ha:

No he was wrong. And is in charge, so he may not understand it, but he sure as shit should have had someone who does around him. And instead of coming out and saying "I screwed up, I was wrong, this is real and I didn't do enough soon enough". He came out and said "we only just in the last 24 hours learned from the CDC". Which is political talk for oops, I mean the CDC changed their guidance and I was unable to figure out why all these other states and people were doing these things.....

Or he is just really that bad at communicating.... which is giving him a lot of credit he doesn't deserve.

It isn't a political thing either. DeWine crushed it. He is a Republican. Kemp is terrible. And he is a Republican. I just hope people hold these weak leaders, who are unable or unwilling to make the hard decisions, accountable when their decisions cost more lives. DeSantis is on that list. Republican. John Bel Edwards is on that list. Democrat. This isn't about politics, it is about leadership and making choices that are hard to make.
 
Bubba said:
Kemp had a terrible moment with this. He isn't terrible. There's a pretty clear distinction.
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Fair enough. As long as we don't make it easy for politicans to "get away" with this mistake, I can agree completely, he isn't terrible. In the end he was ahead of the Texas governor and a lot of others. He just put a target on his back with his recent rhetoric. I just want to see some of these people admit their very clear faults instead of trying to blame others for not providing some information that was very clearly available.
 
I don't live in GA but I'm very, very close. I'm getting a kick out of all the folks who are holding up Stacey Abrams as a bastion of leadership. Um yeah, ok.
 
MD Planner said:
I don't live in GA but I'm very, very close. I'm getting a kick out of all the folks who are holding up Stacey Abrams as a bastion of leadership. Um yeah, ok.
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Yea, I'm certainly not saying she would have done better....I am just saying that he messed up hard.
 
MD Planner said:
I don't live in GA but I'm very, very close. I'm getting a kick out of all the folks who are holding up Stacey Abrams as a bastion of leadership. Um yeah, ok.
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I still think Abrams is missing her calling by insisting that an executive position is all she is wiling to pursue - she would do a great job in the GA-4 seat whenever John Lewis retires.
 
Maister said:
www.opensecrets.org

Democratic ‘dark money’ groups and super PACs target Trump with multi-million dollar coronavirus ad campaign

Cash-flush liberal groups are mobilizing to unleash millions of dollars worth of attack ads targeting President Donald Trump’s response to coronavirus.
www.opensecrets.org www.opensecrets.org

I'm curious if anyone has seen the anti-Trump ads that a dem super PAC recently spent a bundle on to air in certain states and on social media? I've only seen one of these ads and it was on Facebook. Granted, I'm not much of a tv watcher so maybe I've limited my exposure there. They look like powerful attack ads, but based on the amount they spent I would have assumed you'd be constantly surrounded by these ads and as I said I've only seen one.
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Saw the ad on CNN today. It's a good ad.

Yes, I have Corona in the fridge. I also have limes.

When it comes to politicians and this whole mess, some are good people, but just can't handle a real crisis. Maybe they're too afraid of the political ramifications, maybe they think the economy is worth more than the lives. Either way, I'm holding my governor and a certain senator responsible when it comes time to vote. Golf is not essential you dumb ass people.
 
Well, now Mark Cuban is how hinting that he will join the race for president.

Do you think he can beat Trump and is this a guy that you could vote for? Personally, I align more with him than Trump, Biden, or Sanders. I need to research him more to figure out if he would get my vote.
 
michaelskis said:
Well, now Mark Cuban is how hinting that he will join the race for president.

Do you think he can beat Trump and is this a guy that you could vote for? Personally, I align more with him than Trump, Biden, or Sanders. I need to research him more to figure out if he would get my vote.
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No. Don’t. Ask anyone in Minnesota about their time with a former professional wrestler governor.
 
michaelskis said:
Well, now Mark Cuban is how hinting that he will join the race for president.

Do you think he can beat Trump and is this a guy that you could vote for? Personally, I align more with him than Trump, Biden, or Sanders. I need to research him more to figure out if he would get my vote.
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Isn’t this pandemic evidence that experience governing actually matters?
 
Here's a test. Which person would you listen to?

1) I'm not a doctor, but I have common sense. Use a drug that there is no real evidence of it working, but there's a chance so doctors need to prescribe it.

2) As a doctor, I will not prescribe that drug for COVID19 patients.
 
That was to easy -

Number 2
without Number 1 stepping in or interjecting himself into everything.
 
Gedunker said:
Isn’t this pandemic evidence that experience governing actually matters?
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No... this pandemic is evidence that leadership and character matter. Neither of which are traits of the guy currently in the Oval Office. If Trump was smart, which he's not, he would shut up and let the trained professionals run the show.

I think of it in similar terms of an Emergency Operations Center from the NIMS100 training. Executive power outside a crisis does not automatically trend towards power during a crisis. Right now, you have many police, fire, and emergency service leaders running operations at various levels of government. It is rarely the government's top executive. Yes, they need to be kept informed of the situation, but when it comes to operations and guidance, a good leader knows when to get out of the way and let someone with more experience and training take the lead.
 
michaelskis said:
No... this pandemic is evidence that leadership and character matter. Neither of which are traits of the guy currently in the Oval Office. If Trump was smart, which he's not, he would shut up and let the trained professionals run the show.

I think of it in similar terms of an Emergency Operations Center from the NIMS100 training. Executive power outside a crisis does not automatically trend towards power during a crisis. Right now, you have many police, fire, and emergency service leaders running operations at various levels of government. It is rarely the government's top executive. Yes, they need to be kept informed of the situation, but when it comes to operations and guidance, a good leader knows when to get out of the way and let someone with more experience and training take the lead.
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I think this should be true for hospitals too. I think we are seeing pretty clearly right now how bloated hospital adminitrations are, and how executives who are paid a lot to do little, are now trying to put their voice into conversations that they have no need to be part of.

Our system for many years has incentivized organizations to have leaders who just are the face of the organization or can get funding or can do one specific thing. They are paid a lot, but really provide little to no value. Hopefully after this we will look at those who are actually doing things - mid level to high level workers - who are the backbone to companies. Hopefully we will also look at those who stepped up - like grocery store clerks, etc. when we needed them.

Politically my hope is that we just look at people somewhat differently after this first wave ends. I have all the confidence in the world that we won't let this happen in this way again. Politically it just can't. We will spend lots of money on pandemic protection programs and hopefully we won't have to deal with this poorly managed of a crisis for a long time. But my guess is that we will gut that program after 10 years of not needing it, because we want to cut taxes, or something....
 
Late on Friday evening, tRump fired Inspector General Michael Atkinson. This is the man that - as required by his job - told Congress of the whistleblower complaint on Ukraine.

Yes, this is important to do during a pandemic. Why, because it'll get lost in the shuffle of COVID19 news cycle. Another example of this loyalty demanding egomaniac chump!
 
Hink said:
Hopefully after this we will look at those who are actually doing things - mid level to high level workers - who are the backbone to companies. Hopefully we will also look at those who stepped up - like grocery store clerks, etc. when we needed them.

Politically my hope is that we just look at people somewhat differently after this first wave ends. I have all the confidence in the world that we won't let this happen in this way again.
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Narrator: And nothing changed

Call me cynical, but as horrible as all this has been, it won't change a damn thing in our country, not any time soon. Maybe more progressive places in Europe will see significant changes quickly that last, but we will continue to be stuck in the mud, spinning tires and digging ourselves further in because for the last 60 years or so, that's been the "American way".

Grocery store clerks and other minimum wage employees will largely be forgotten. We might get a slight bump in federal minimum wage, but that's about it. The healthcare system will continue to be a bloated pig with miles of red tape. Big business will continue to make money hand over fist by being completely irresponsible with their profits because the government will always bail them out when they fail.

We won't see any changes in the immediate aftermath of this, at least nothing long lasting. But what we MIGHT start to see is people becoming aware of the fact that their politicians and "community leaders" give zero shits about them, and it might be time for them to get a little more involved. We MIGHT start to see younger people get off the bench and fight for something. Ultimately it'll take pushing out the old guard entirely and putting in new blood. This might be the impetus for that change.
 
Planit said:
Here's a test. Which person would you listen to?

1) I'm not a doctor, but I have common sense. Use a drug that there is no real evidence of it working, but there's a chance so doctors need to prescribe it.

2) As a doctor, I will not prescribe that drug for COVID19 patients.
Click to expand...

The Karen and Crunchy Walforf Parent crowd value the opinions of celebrities or prominent mommy bloggers over doctors, scientists, and Nobel Prize winners when it comes to immunizing their kids. There's a similar phenomenon among a certain subset of preppers, and the "what doctors don't want you to know" pitches of radio hosts who concoct conspiracy theory after conspiracy theory. There's a growing distrust of authority, even when people blindly align themselves with a political party "team",
 
DVD said:
Saw the ad on CNN today. It's a good ad.

Yes, I have Corona in the fridge. I also have limes.

When it comes to politicians and this whole mess, some are good people, but just can't handle a real crisis. Maybe they're too afraid of the political ramifications, maybe they think the economy is worth more than the lives. Either way, I'm holding my governor and a certain senator responsible when it comes time to vote. Golf is not essential you dumb ass people.
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I have never been a big fan of New York's Cuomos, father or son. I've voted for them only because they were/are better than the absolute jackasses that the Republicans have repeatedly run against them. That said, Andrew Cuomo has earned my respect going forward because of his handling of the Covid-19 crisis. As bad as it's been in New York, he's demonstrated real leadership in this crisis that we haven't seen in many politicians over the last half century.
 
I read a good article, I cant recall where now as it was on my phone that broke down tactical mistakes of the Sanders campaign. The biggest thing I got from it, and I think I knew it anecdotally, was that people's affiliations are no longer tied to socio-economics. Its strictly tribal. Its a very weird time we are in. When a Republican President and a Republican Senate Majority pass a multi trillion relief package that is basically the antithesis of what it meant to be conservative, it sort of turns the whole old paradigm on its ear.
 
If Trump tries to open the government without the support of individual states, or without the governor's of those states signing orders or allowing orders they have signed to expire - I do not ever want to hear a Republican state anything about state's rights ever again.

Gun rights? States rights. Not the federal government.

Health rights? Federal government should have control... except single payer. That is a state's rights issue...... :tired:

It is getting hard to try and play the Republican baseball.... tell me about our debt again?
 
Hink said:
If Trump tries to open the government without the support of individual states, or without the governor's of those states signing orders or allowing orders they have signed to expire - I do not ever want to hear a Republican state anything about state's rights ever again.

Gun rights? States rights. Not the federal government.

Health rights? Federal government should have control... except single payer. That is a state's rights issue...... :tired:

It is getting hard to try and play the Republican baseball.... tell me about our debt again?
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The Republican Party no longer exists. It just hasn't formally changed names. It is completely unrecognizable from what it was less than 20 years ago.
 
Ok, all of this is getting ridiculous. Trump has indicated that he, not the governors will decide when to open the country. People flipped out saying that he does not have that authority... but people also flipped out the the did not step in and issue federal stay at home orders... I don’t like Trump, but come on people, don’t bash him for doing and not doing something. You can’t have it both ways.

BTW, he needs to stay out of the regulatory side and he needs to do a better job of PPE and ventilator distribution to prevent big money states from out bidding everyone else and monopolizing then.
 
michaelskis said:
Ok, all of this is getting ridiculous. Trump has indicated that he, not the governors will decide when to open the country. People flipped out saying that he does not have that authority... but people also flipped out the the did not step in and issue federal stay at home orders... I don’t like Trump, but come on people, don’t bash him for doing and not doing something. You can’t have it both ways.

BTW, he needs to stay out of the regulatory side and he needs to do a better job of PPE and ventilator distribution to prevent big money states from out bidding everyone else and monopolizing then.
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You do realize that people got mad that he thought this wasn't real. Which clearly he still believes. Everything else doesn't really matter. Although closing the border early was something that he should get credit for. Defunding parts of the government that help pandemics and not speaking in a clear united voice, has done more harm that the good that he has done so far. Also, he has politicized this more than any D could try to. His daily briefings and their "success" is not about information, or help, it is about vanity and his need for people to look at him.

I don't disagree that Federal Stay at Home orders would have helped, especially when weak governors like DeSantis wouldn't do what they knew they needed to do. But in the end, States rights will trump hehe our President. He can try and pretend like he has all the authority to do whatever he wants, but that just isn't the case, for the things he is talking about.

He can open our borders to China, and he can open up certain aspects of our economy, but if governors in States want to keep their stay at home orders in place, people are not going to just be allowed to leave their homes or start working. The problem is going to be there is a subset of our population that doesn't care about the ramifications or the death toll, they only care about money. Those people will follow the President and put all the people who are trying to do the right thing, even though it is killing their wallet, at risk too. Making it worse for everyone.

My biggest complaint about Trump isn't his inaction, although that shows a lot about him as a leader, it is his rhetoric and language surrounding this pandemic. There is a lot of blame to go around, and hopefully once we get through this we can pinpoint what we can do better next time, but as the leader of our country you should accept the most blame. You should accept the accountabilty that comes with leading us. When everything is great, you like to take credit, you should take blame when things are terrible.
 
michaelskis said:
Ok, all of this is getting ridiculous. Trump has indicated that he, not the governors will decide when to open the country. People flipped out saying that he does not have that authority... but people also flipped out the the did not step in and issue federal stay at home orders... I don’t like Trump, but come on people, don’t bash him for doing and not doing something. You can’t have it both ways.
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I don't think the critics of the President are trying to have it both ways. The President didn't order state stay at home orders and it's questionable whether he would have the authority to do that on a state by state basis anyway. Since he didn't issue individual state by state stay at home orders, he doesn't have the authority to end them either. Contrary to what the President and talking heads on Fox have decided to believe this week, the states do have certain rights.

People were bashing him for not issuing a real federal level order in a timely manner and bashing him now for trying to step on rights that the states have to protect their own health and welfare. It's two different topics that he's messed up on so he can be bashed on both. I don't see the inconsistencies.
 
7ex4p504ues41.jpg
 
"When somebody is the president of the United States, the authority is total. And that's the way it's got to be — it's total," Trump said. "And the governors know that."

Cuomo said that Trump's comments were "not a bending of the Constitution" but "it was a breaking of the Constitution."
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www.nbcnews.com

Cuomo warns of constitutional crisis 'like you haven't seen in decades' if Trump tries to reopen New York

"We don't have a king — we have a president," the governor warned, saying that reopening the economy too soon could result in more coronavirus deaths.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com

Something called the 10th Amendment.
 
Planit said:
Gov. Idiot DeSantis just authorized the WWE as an “essential business” in the state and is resuming live shows.

It's a Florida thing!
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"As a brand that has been woven into the fabric of society, WWE and its Superstars bring families together and deliver a sense of hope, determination and perseverance."
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www.cbsnews.com

WWE deemed an "essential" business in Florida during pandemic, will resume live matches

The mayor of Orange County, where WWE normally tapes, said it was originally deemed a non-essential business – but the governor changed that
www.cbsnews.com www.cbsnews.com
 
www.reuters.com

U.S. airlines nearing acceptance of payroll aid plan: sources

Some large U.S. passenger airlines are close to accepting the terms of a $25 billion offer for government coronavirus payroll aid, with announcements possible as early as Tuesday, people briefed on the matter said.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com

On a positive note, I hope that if the government starts owning the airlines, maybe we can get better snacks back? Or maybe some leg room? Or maybe a 21st century FAA and flight program... :ha:


---

Also, Trump is a "republican".
From Fox News:

www.foxnews.com

Trump set to preside over record spending, deficits as coronavirus costs explode

Following the passage of the $2.2 trillion CARES Act late last month, Goldman Sachs reportedly has forecast that the federal deficit will reach $3.6 trillion for 2020.
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com
 
Written stimulus checks may be delayed because Trump needs to pat his ego by having them printed with his name on it. He originally wanted to have his signature on them, but he's technically not permitted to sign them. The written checks are going out to the ones who need it most, the poorest of Americans.

He has also decided to withhold Who funding (despite being impeached for previously withholding funding to Ukraine). He doesn't set the budget, Congress does. His actions in withholding funding like this have already been found to be illegal, but I guess he never learns.

Biden wins in November, no doubt about that anymore. Previously I've said I wasn't going to vote for either man, because they are both abhorrent. I have since decided that if I have to shoot myself, I'd rather shoot myself in the foot (Biden) than in the face (Trump).
 
AG74683 said:
Biden wins in November, no doubt about that anymore.
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I am cautiously optimistic that will be the case. Trump calls Biden 'sleepy Joe' and says no one is excited about him. Even were that so, I suspect America will be longing to experience a little less excitement and drama come November.
 
Maister said:
I am cautiously optimistic that will be the case. Trump calls Biden 'sleepy Joe' and says no one is excited about him. Even were that so, I suspect America will be longing to experience a little less excitement and drama come November.
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He's not wrong, no one is excited about Joe Biden. It's not about being excited for Biden, it's being excited about the prospect of no more Trump.
 
Anyone else tuning out the President during this Corona Virus update press conferences? What does judge recess appointments have to do with the virus?
 
A friend, not a Cyb, posted this elsewhere. It ruined the start of my day, but YMMV;

1. Dismantle the federal government: check
2. Pack the federal judiciary with young conservative ideologues who will defend 1. above: check
3. Shore up the oligarchy with reduced tax rates and relaxed, reduced, and abandoned regulatory schemes: check
4. Allow your friends and donors to exploit public natural resources for private profit: check
5. Perfect a gerrymandered system of elections in order to disenfanchise liberal and minority voters: check
6. Use mass media to elevate fear as the primary voting motivating factor in public life and discourse: check
7. Solidify the Executive Branch as superior to the legislative and judicial branches of government: check
8. Reduce worldwide cooperative leadership roles of the USA while increasing militarism: check

in my opinion, you can mostly blame Moscow Mitch for this. Trump is too stupid to achieve this strategy.
 
arcplans said:
Anyone else tuning out the President during this Corona Virus update press conferences?
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No, if I'm in the mood to hear conspiracy theories, lies, propaganda, or just plain ol' misinformation that's harmful to the American public, I usually check out Breitbart instead. Takes less time and I can do it when it's convenient for my schedule.
 
Just saw this come across my phone:

Apple News SB Nation
"Vince McMahon is advising Donald tRump on the economy...while the XFL files for bankruptcy."



Seems about right as that's tRump's go to model for business.
 
A buddy of mine back in Michigan was at the protest yesterday. (with a mask on at that...) but he raised an interesting question regarding the constitutional rights and government restrictions on them, namely who has the authority to suspend federally granted constitutional rights. His belief is that there are limited situations, namely rebellion or invasion occurs and the public safety requires it, where the president may do so, but a state's governor cannot. He posted this link. https://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/interpretation/article-i/clauses/763

Personally, I think that the Governor of Michigan is doing the right thing but I can see the legal questionably of it.

What are your thoughts?
 
I've been reviewing signs all morning with federal approval. We limit constitutional rights all the time. We limit occupancy in building. We limit the age of who can go in certain businesses. We issue permits for parades and gatherings outside. I've kicked a church meeting out of a home when they started to get so crowded no one could get down the residential street. As long as you can justify the health, safety or public welfare/health aspect, I think the mayors and governors are in the clear. There will be lawsuits and they might go on for a while, but I think we have some of the clearest justification for temporarily limiting rights as anyone ever has.
 
I go with the quit your bitching model. Does this really hurt you during this pandemic thing? As long as it's a one time deal during this specifically unique incident and general is for the health and safety, whatever. Now if it becomes a thing we want to use all the time, then hell no. Protest away.
 
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