• Cyburbia is a friendly big tent, where we share our experiences and thoughts about urban planning practice, the built environment, planning adjacent topics, and anything else that comes to mind. No ads, no spam, and it's free. It's easy to join!

NEVERENDING ♾️ The NEVERENDING Political Discussion Thread

michaelskis said:
I agree with much of what you said.

However, the stuff named after Byrd is a different situation. The good things he did later in life don't make up for the wrongs he did when he was younger. It is one thing to screw up a few times, but it is another to promote hate as he did. It would be like building a statue to Albert Speer recognizing his contributions to City Planning.
Click to expand...

I'm just not that familiar with him. It's funny because even though I was raised in the south (Virginia), I seem to have missed a lot of the romanticization (why isn't this an actual word? I want to use it all the time!) of the confederacy. The little I do know about Byrd, I'm not sure that there is much that's personally redemptive. His change in views seems to have come from political pragmatism versus actual moral conviction. So I think it again goes back to the question of what the average person who sees the memorial would associate him with if no context is provided elsewhere.
 
Planit said:
No worries as it is. Last year there were rumors of trouble and a plan of action was created. This year will be the same. Multiple agencies met yesterday for a briefing.

Mrs. P is worried because The Girl is marching in the HS band for the first time. We shall see, you know the area AG...
Click to expand...

Well the overall number of people were down this year. I saw a few people turn their back when the confederate flags came by. One incident where a person from another county came in, followed the reenactors for a couple blocks and then pepper sprayed 2 of them - he was arrested immediately. There's a story in the big city newspaper if you care to find it.

One band wasn't allowed to march because their t-shirts portrayed a clinched fist with the word "Renegades" on it - their school mascot are the Indians. Another band allowed any member to not participate if they didn't want to - they looked to be around 3/4 their normal size.

It was very hot too which - in my opinion - also contributed to the smaller crowds. All in all it operated as a fairly routine affair.


Some security features I'll note. Public Works parked their garbage trucks and other large equipment to block streets, as did fire trucks and such. There was no way a vehicle was getting in, as happened in C'ville. Multiple agencies were on board and 2 surveillance aircraft were in the air.
 
Planit said:
Well the overall number of people were down this year. I saw a few people turn their back when the confederate flags came by. One incident where a person from another county came in, followed the reenactors for a couple blocks and then pepper sprayed 2 of them - he was arrested immediately. There's a story in the big city newspaper if you care to find it.

.
Click to expand...

UPDATE: Correction - the person arrested was part of the parade following the reenactors for "safety" purposes. He sprayed two women watching the parade who evidently said some derogatory things. He was also armed and had a concealed carry permit.
 
Planit said:
...

Some security features I'll note. Public Works parked their garbage trucks and other large equipment to block streets, as did fire trucks and such. There was no way a vehicle was getting in, as happened in C'ville. Multiple agencies were on board and 2 surveillance aircraft were in the air.
Click to expand...

Seen that a lot recently. Snowplows, forestry trucks, anything large with four wheels and isn't being used right then.
 
gtpeach said:
I'm just not that familiar with him. It's funny because even though I was raised in the south (Virginia), I seem to have missed a lot of the romanticization (why isn't this an actual word? I want to use it all the time!) of the confederacy. The little I do know about Byrd, I'm not sure that there is much that's personally redemptive. His change in views seems to have come from political pragmatism versus actual moral conviction. So I think it again goes back to the question of what the average person who sees the memorial would associate him with if no context is provided elsewhere.
Click to expand...

I just spoke with a local historian who is concerned with several of the local monuments. Apparently a bust of Lincoln in Chicago was set on fire, and the Lincoln memorial was vandilized in DC with paint. He also said that there was a plaque from a battle that was a confederate win that was defaced (I don't think locally) and apparently there have been threats to a confederate monument in Chapel Hill that pays tribute to the UNC students who left class to go and fight, many of whom lost their lives at Gettysburg. Also a 56 year old in NC was charged with pepper spraying Confederate reenactment actors during a parade.

Where does it stop?


Veloise said:
Seen that a lot recently. Snowplows, forestry trucks, anything large with four wheels and isn't being used right then.
Click to expand...

I think we all will see more of that. I think it is a great idea and a terrific way to protect people.
 
gtpeach said:
One of my good friends was quoted in this NYT article and then is being interviewed by VICE today. I know a lot of people think it's dumb to return your diploma, but I'm pretty proud of her. It's given her a pretty major national platform, and I think she is using it very responsibly.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/21/us/jerry-falwell-liberty-university-trump.html?smid=fb-share
Click to expand...

Out of curiosity, will she being completely disavowing her degree as well (removing it from her resume, reporting the change to HR, etc.)?
 
Bubba said:
Out of curiosity, will she being completely disavowing her degree as well (removing it from her resume, reporting the change to HR, etc.)?
Click to expand...

I don't think so - most people participating are doing it as a symbolic gesture. But she's probably in a position where she could do that since she has a Master's degree from a different school. I don't know that she'd contact her employer, but I could see her taking it off her resume.
 
Bubba said:
Out of curiosity, will she being completely disavowing her degree as well (removing it from her resume, reporting the change to HR, etc.)?
Click to expand...

These things are almost always symbolic, but I still think they are important. A lot of Eagle Scouts mailed their patches back to the BSA when they were going through their whole stupid mess with gay leaders/scouts and non-religious scouts. I was going to, but it would have required me to drive to my parents house and dig through a box to find my old uniform. From what I've gathered, this action, along with several stories from Eagle Scouts that were essentially 'closeted' during their time in the BSA, did have some bearing on their policy changes.
 
gtpeach said:
I don't think so - most people participating are doing it as a symbolic gesture. But she's probably in a position where she could do that since she has a Master's degree from a different school. I don't know that she'd contact her employer, but I could see her taking it off her resume.
Click to expand...

Gotcha. That story led me to briefly mull over how I would handle it if one of my employees suddenly decided to disavow a degree that their position was dependent upon (with Georgia being an "at will" state for employment). My initial impulse would be to terminate, as usually their professional qualifications for their positions are partially degree-based, or we would have won contracts based partially on representing them in the proposal as having said degree. Frankly, if they made it into a NY Times story as having just returned their diploma as a symbolic gesture, regardless of their reason and my view of it (supportive or dismissive), I would probably be forced to act before I get contacted by a client about it.
 
Just to be :6: advocate, most HR requirements for job listings read something like "successful applicants will have 5 years professional experience and earned a Masters degree in Public Administration or a related field....."
Even if one returns their diploma as some sort of symbolic gesture that can't erase the fact that they earned that degree in the first place and still possess whatever knowledge one's employer presumed they had when they entered into the employment contract.
 
Maister said:
Just to be :6: advocate, most HR requirements for job listings read something like "successful applicants will have 5 years professional experience and earned a Masters degree in Public Administration or a related field....."
Even if one returns their diploma as some sort of symbolic gesture that can't erase the fact that they earned that degree in the first place and still possess whatever knowledge one's employer presumed they had when they entered into the employment contract.
Click to expand...

This is a great theoretical exercise...

I agree that this hypothetical individual would not suddenly lose their years of on-the-job experience or the knowledge gained while obtaining the degree for which they returned their diploma in a symbolic gesture. However, here on the dark side, sustained success for one's firm is not just winning contracts - it is winning and maintaining repeat business. So, if I use one of my junior folk's resume in a winning proposal, and two weeks after we start on the project this junior person makes the news for returning the diploma cited in that resume, I probably would be forced to act before I get a "what the hell??!?" phone call from a client that I want to keep as a client.

Actions, even when just symbolic, sometimes have consequences.
 
Bubba said:
This is a great theoretical exercise...

I agree that this hypothetical individual would not suddenly lose their years of on-the-job experience or the knowledge gained while obtaining the degree for which they returned their diploma in a symbolic gesture. However, here on the dark side, sustained success for one's firm is not just winning contracts - it is winning and maintaining repeat business. So, if I use one of my junior folk's resume in a winning proposal, and two weeks after we start on the project this junior person makes the news for returning the diploma cited in that resume, I probably would be forced to act before I get a "what the hell??!?" phone call from a client that I want to keep as a client.

Actions, even when just symbolic, sometimes have consequences.
Click to expand...

There are so many fun what-if rabbit holes to go down with this. What if they return their undergrad diploma, but then they have a Master's degree from another college. So basically, if they went all the way to disavow their undergraduate degree, they would still have a higher level degree. Would that have the same consequence?

I don't think even if you wrote to a college that you got an MS from to tell them that you were disavowing your undergrad degree that they would then revoke your Master's, even though having the Bachelor's was a requirement for admission. You did have the undergrad degree when you applied...
 
"rebel soldier"

This whole scenario is very amusing.

http://www.wxii12.com/article/high-point-man-removed-from-florida-college-after-standing-in-front-of-confederate-monument-in-virginia/12027442

I'm a dance caller, not a re-enactor, but...

...his "uniform" consists of a CSA shell jacket and kepi, worn with denim trousers...and a modern Army surplus utility belt with green canteens...and modern weaponry. (This is like wearing a white tank top and shorts with a suffrage sash.)

WaPo's article digs a little deeper

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2017/08/23/he-wore-confederate-dress-to-charlottesville-he-got-two-middle-fingers-and-possible-expulsion-from-college/?utm_term=.ea19d39243b6

Don't miss this: it's a video compilation of the funniest Twits in a voice-over with Ken Burns effect on a photo and "Ashokan Farewell." (I'm friends with Jay Ungar on FB, shared it with him, so presumable the firm director has seen it by now.)

 
gtpeach said:
One of my good friends was quoted in this NYT article and then is being interviewed by VICE today. I know a lot of people think it's dumb to return your diploma, but I'm pretty proud of her. It's given her a pretty major national platform, and I think she is using it very responsibly.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/21/us/jerry-falwell-liberty-university-trump.html?smid=fb-share
Click to expand...

Just saying but...if you go to Liberty University and are shocked that the university, especially Jerry Falwell Jr., did something crazy right wing, you're gonna have a bad time....
 
AG74683 said:
Just saying but...if you go to Liberty University and are shocked that the university, especially Jerry Falwell Jr., did something crazy right wing, you're gonna have a bad time....
Click to expand...

I mean, there is some truth to that. But the problem is that he's the only one that's allowed to have a voice. One of the men on one of his big deal Boards pushed back against him (a man whose family has a pretty significant LU legacy with major buildings named after them) initially and was very quickly removed from his position.

I genuinely know a lot of wonderful, non-extreme people that have gone to school there, work there, or teach there. Some of the kindest, most genuine, thoughtful people that are appalled by what Jerry Jr. is saying in the name of Christ. So good for the alumni for taking a stand and speaking out. If nothing else, it at least gives LU another, different voice.
 
t1200-artoon082317%20for%20soup.jpg
 
Maister said:
Just to be :6: advocate, most HR requirements for job listings read something like "successful applicants will have 5 years professional experience and earned a Masters degree in Public Administration or a related field....."
Even if one returns their diploma as some sort of symbolic gesture that can't erase the fact that they earned that degree in the first place and still possess whatever knowledge one's employer presumed they had when they entered into the employment contract.
Click to expand...

Transcripts are forever ... at least in New York where it's the law, and probably most other states since they can be used in legal proceedings. If you earned a degree fifty years ago, the institution still has your final transcript listing the degree you were awarded. Likely it's in a file cabinet in a basement but many colleges microfilmed their transcripts decades ago, and more recently, are scanning even older transcripts that are reviewed for any reason onto digital media. Most HR departments want an official final transcript, usually sent directly from the institution that granted it, as proof of an applicant having a degree. Having the paper diploma means nothing. For colleges in NY that have closed, I believe the State Education Department holds their records.
 
More than 20 Texas representatives and senators voted against Sandy aid. How will they vote on Harvey?
http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-harvey-aid-sandy-vote-20170828-story.html

Lawmakers and others from the New York-New Jersey region that sustained the heaviest damage from Sandy, moreover, have signaled that they'll be on hypocrite watch when it comes time to vote on Harvey aid.
"1 bad turn doesn't deserve another," Republican Rep. Peter King of New York wrote in a tweet directed at Cruz.
In a second tweet he pledged, "I won't abandon Texas the way Ted Cruz did New York."
Click to expand...
 
Note to self: Make giant press releases like pardoning a sheriff prior to giant hurricanes. My racism won't be noticed as much.
 
AG74683 said:
I mean why would someone vote against hurricane aid? That seems stupid and an immediate way to get into hot water when your constituents need it (or any federal aid for that matter).
Click to expand...

Cruz claims he voted down the Sandy relief bill because it was filled with 'unrelated pork'. I understand the 'unrelated pork' largely consisted of money dedicated to disaster preparation for other parts of the country.
 
I never leave the office to inspect flooding without my FLOTUS hat. You to can buy your very own at the tRump website for just $49.99 and yes black heels are a must.
 
Maister said:
Cruz claims he voted down the Sandy relief bill because it was filled with 'unrelated pork'. I understand the 'unrelated pork' largely consisted of money dedicated to disaster preparation for other parts of the country.
Click to expand...

I could understand that somewhat, but the bill wasn't full of anything like that. The "unrelated pork" language was mainly dealing with future disaster relief or items that were damaged by Sandy but not directly in the path. Regardless, if you represent a coastal state, you should ALWAYS vote for hurricane relief and rely on other non-coastal party members to dump the bill, for this exact same reason.

I get that congressional Republicans want to tout their fiscal conservative ways, but disaster relief shouldn't be one of those items. The faster you rebuild businesses, homes, and infrastructure, the faster people return to work and start spending money.
 
AG74683 said:
I mean why would someone vote against hurricane aid? That seems stupid and an immediate way to get into hot water when your constituents need it (or any federal aid for that matter).
Click to expand...

I get it. But it doesn't make the Republican Texas lawmakers who voted against aid for Sandy any less the cretinous hypocritical pricks then they are right now.
 
So now the DACA program is being terminated. Let's see what Congress does about this one. Although they say they're too busy with tax reform and health care to focus on this. I spoke with The Girl this morning if she has heard any rumblings at school because of this happening. She said she thinks she knows of 1 boy that seems concerned.

I also read where Iraqi Christians, mainly in Detroit area who came here in the 1980's because Christians were being killed in Iraq, were being deported as well AND they supported pResident tRump in the election because of their inherited conservative leanings.
 
Planit said:
I also read where Iraqi Christians, mainly in Detroit area who came here in the 1980's because Christians were being killed in Iraq, were being deported as well AND they supported pResident tRump in the election because of their inherited conservative leanings.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the Chaldeans here and their current predicament is in the news quite a bit lately. I have quite a few Chaldean friends who I've known since elementary school and they are very concerned. The Iraqi Christians really started coming here in the 1950s and 1960s and then there was a huge influx in the 1970s and early 1980s. I know some who have aunts and uncles and parents who are facing possible deportations back to a country where they don't speak the language, where the remaining Christian population has basically been massacred and their family no longer exists, and which they might have left before they were even 10 years old. Most of my personal friends are not worried about deportations since most of the Chaldeans I know my age were born here but like I said, they have family members who are in danger. And they really were just suddenly rounded up one morning with very little warning. IIRC, the media started reporting the pending round ups about 48 hours or so before it actually began and once folks were rounded up, many of them were initially sent to detention facilities in places like Texas, Louisiana, and Florida - hundreds and hundreds of miles away from the families and the local attorneys and aid groups that are particularly adept at working with this population. A few days later a federal judge ruled that there were some violations of due process and from what I can gather in the newspaper and the many Facebook posts I see these people are now just in a state of limbo.

It's also worth noting that while of course there might be some criminals in the population, the Chaldean population in Metro Detroit is largely much more prosperous, much more likely to start their own business and provide jobs to the local population, highly educated or having experience in the skilled trades, and more likely to have relatively larger families (i.e. more kids).... all demographics that Metro Detroit and Michigan (and the country as a whole) desperately need.

Leading up to the election, I always had a hard time figuring out why the local Chaldean population was so largely in the Trump camp, regardless of how young or old or otherwise liberal they might seem. I know they have typically been Republicans going back decades (similar to the Cuban population in South Florida) but these days, it seemed pretty predictable that the way the Republican party was going they would see the Chaldeans as the other regardless of their actual religious faith and just lump them in with what they assume of everybody from Iraq, Syria, and Turkey and that Trump (and Sessions once he was appointed AG) would have no love for them.
 
Column reprinted in my fair city's sunday newspaper with this headline -

Paying for Preventable Disasters
http://www.howeypolitics.com/Conten...-Paying-for-self-inflicted-wounds/10/23/15674

HIGHLIGHTS -
Zoning, land use regulations, building codes, and appropriate infrastructure are tools designed to forestall predictable, but uncertain events.

This is weather welfare. In this country welfare is a dirty word. We disparage people who need help to find and hold a job with decent pay. Yet we’re ready to absolve those flooded by their lack of preventative attention to their own futures.
Click to expand...
 
We watched the 60 Minutes interview with Steve Bannon. I saw a quote this morning: "It looks like his face caught on fire and somebody put it out with a garden rake."
 
Can I get clarification on something? Based on what some people are saying on FB, it is ok for people in sports to take a knee to protest by kneeling during the National Anthem, but apparently it is not ok for other people to say it is disrespectful?

Personally, I think one should stand.
 
I think the point is that you can choose whichever you like. If you are okay with flag pants and bikinis, kneeling during the anthem should probably be okay too. Personally, I don't feel comfortable with the kneeling, as many of my military friends and family have very strong opinions about it, but in America I support someone's choice to believe what they want and act on their own beliefs.

On similar note:

Trump attacking the NFL and NBA at the same time is interesting. He is really starting to be more specific in his twitter rants. I was thinking he would go more general in his attacks, but he has really been more specific lately. It is interesting to say the least.
 
michaelskis said:
Can I get clarification on something? Based on what some people are saying on FB, it is ok for people in sports to take a knee to protest by kneeling during the National Anthem, but apparently it is not ok for other people to say it is disrespectful?

Personally, I think one should stand.
Click to expand...

Yes, it is OK to take a knee, to lay prostrate on the ground, to do the hokey pokey, etc. if they so choose to exercise their 1st Amendment rights.

What is not OK is the Office of the President recommending that private businesses bench or fire employees who exercise those 1st Amendment rights - that's bordering on the government infringing upon those rights which would be a clear violation of the Constitution.

Personally, I don't care if somebody wants to take that opportunity to protest, it's their right and they do it during the playing of the anthem because they know that's when they have an audience. Yes, other people can say it's disrespectful but so often the argument that it's disrespectful boils down to somebody saying they just don't like it because it disrespects the troops or disrespects the flag or something like that. I served our country. I have a combat action ribbon. I lost friends. I don't feel disrespected by somebody voicing their opinion. My feelings aren't that fragile. As for it disrespects the flag: the flag is a piece of cloth. It will get over it.

In the end, I've thought the NFL has been waaaaaayyyy toooo jingoistic over the past decade+ (e.g. ever since the DoD get a big budget line item authorizing them to spend a bunch of recruiting dollars on sponsoring pro and college sports and sporting events). I'd like to go back to the days when all the teams were in the locker room during the anthem, or better yet, back to the days when it wasn't even played to start the game. What does it have to do with sports? As long as the NFL keeps putting on a show that I enjoy watching, I will keep tuning in.




FWIW - One of my favorite pastimes at my office is looking for violations of the U.S. Flag Code and pointing them out to the offenders. Some examples I've found: wearing clothing with the flag on it, the wearing of flag lapel pins in most instances, improperly displaying the flag at press conferences or outside, using the flag on disposable materials... Here's one that's also a violation of the U.S. Flag Code: displaying the flag laid flat as it often is at the start of football games.
 
WSU MUP Student said:
Yes, it is OK to take a knee, to lay prostrate on the ground, to do the hokey pokey, etc. if they so choose to exercise their 1st Amendment rights.

What is not OK is the Office of the President recommending that private businesses bench or fire employees who exercise those 1st Amendment rights - that's bordering on the government infringing upon those rights which would be a clear violation of the Constitution.

Personally, I don't care if somebody wants to take that opportunity to protest, it's their right and they do it during the playing of the anthem because they know that's when they have an audience. Yes, other people can say it's disrespectful but so often the argument that it's disrespectful boils down to somebody saying they just don't like it because it disrespects the troops or disrespects the flag or something like that. I served our country. I have a combat action ribbon. I lost friends. I don't feel disrespected by somebody voicing their opinion. My feelings aren't that fragile. As for it disrespects the flag: the flag is a piece of cloth. It will get over it.
Click to expand...

Ditto, except the whole combat action ribbon part. Part of serving is making sure people have the right to take a knee. It's like burning the flag. I don't like it, but you can do it if you want. At least taking a knee is in protest of something unlike all the flag burning crap.

On a side note, if no one paid attention and screamed every time someone did something remotely offensive it would never be a thing. Thanks to the President it's a thing.
 
WSU MUP Student said:
In the end, I've thought the NFL has been waaaaaayyyy toooo jingoistic over the past decade+ (e.g. ever since the DoD get a big budget line item authorizing them to spend a bunch of recruiting dollars on sponsoring pro and college sports and sporting events). I'd like to go back to the days when all the teams were in the locker room during the anthem, or better yet, back to the days when it wasn't even played to start the game. What does it have to do with sports? As long as the NFL keeps putting on a show that I enjoy watching, I will keep tuning in.
Click to expand...

This is where I fall as well. There is nothing inherently patriotic about sports, so when I really stop to think about it, the borderline worship of country that takes place at the beginning of sports activities seems really incongruous with what's about to take place.

I went to see my favorite author, Brene Brown, speak recently on her new book tour. She talked about how humans are genetically wired to not be able to harm others in their species. The only way we are able to treat others in morally contemptible ways is by dehumanizing them so that we don't see them as equal to us. That's what this country did to black people in order to be able to own them as slaves and treat them worse than animals in a lot of cases. So the Black Lives Matter movement (speaking in general terms) is an effort to RE-humanize black people in our society. She went on to talk about how there is always a huge amount of resistance whenever these rehumanization efforts take place. To me, that's exactly what's happening right now.

Colin Kaepernick and others are using their visible platforms to bring attention to serious social problems in a peaceful way, and people are losing their S*IT about it. The point of protests are to ruffle feathers to attract attention to your cause. I'm all in favor of it.
 
WSU MUP Student said:
Yes, it is OK to take a knee, to lay prostrate on the ground, to do the hokey pokey, etc. if they so choose to exercise their 1st Amendment rights.

What is not OK is the Office of the President recommending that private businesses bench or fire employees who exercise those 1st Amendment rights - that's bordering on the government infringing upon those rights which would be a clear violation of the Constitution.

Personally, I don't care if somebody wants to take that opportunity to protest, it's their right and they do it during the playing of the anthem because they know that's when they have an audience. Yes, other people can say it's disrespectful but so often the argument that it's disrespectful boils down to somebody saying they just don't like it because it disrespects the troops or disrespects the flag or something like that. I served our country. I have a combat action ribbon. I lost friends. I don't feel disrespected by somebody voicing their opinion. My feelings aren't that fragile. As for it disrespects the flag: the flag is a piece of cloth. It will get over it.

In the end, I've thought the NFL has been waaaaaayyyy toooo jingoistic over the past decade+ (e.g. ever since the DoD get a big budget line item authorizing them to spend a bunch of recruiting dollars on sponsoring pro and college sports and sporting events). I'd like to go back to the days when all the teams were in the locker room during the anthem, or better yet, back to the days when it wasn't even played to start the game. What does it have to do with sports? As long as the NFL keeps putting on a show that I enjoy watching, I will keep tuning in.
Click to expand...


I completely agree that Trump is out of line. He is an idiot. However when people like Alejandro Villanueva get hate comments because he defied his coach's instructions and went out to the tunnel and stood for the national anthem because that is what he believes in, then that is an issue in my book. Yes, there is no question that it is people's first amendment right to take a knee, but it is also my first amendment right to say that they are being disrespectful. I am not going to tell them that they can't do what they do, or that they should be fired, but I am not going to pretend that I support their form of protest. I am still going to watch football on TV and cheer for my teams but I find it ironic that Tim Tebow was ridiculed for kneeling to pray in the endzone by some of the same pundits that are supporting people kneeling during the National Anthem.

FInally, I don't think that the National Anthem to honor the flag... the flag and the song are a symbol of the United States of America. They are not disrespecting the flag during the National Anthem, they are disrespecting the idea of what the US is all about. It is like many sports teams have a logo of the mascot in their locker room with a rule, you do not step on the logo because of what it represents. It is apparently ok to disrespect the US as long as you don't disrespect your team.
 
So is it still okay for Oriole fans to yell "Oh" louder in the middle of the national anthem than singing the entire song itself? Or the Braves fans yelling 'Braves" at the end? That's kinda disrespectful to the song/hence country.






To offer levity to this discord:
What's the last 2 words of the national anthem? Play Ball.
 
michaelskis said:
FInally, I don't think that the National Anthem to honor the flag... the flag and the song are a symbol of the United States of America. They are not disrespecting the flag during the National Anthem, they are disrespecting the idea of what the US is all about. It is like many sports teams have a logo of the mascot in their locker room with a rule, you do not step on the logo because of what it represents. It is apparently ok to disrespect the US as long as you don't disrespect your team.
Click to expand...

But to me they are not disrespecting the idea of the US. We are all about being rebels and protesting and having our say. We're doing it right now. If you want the players to be respectful, tell them to stand still and put their hand over their hearts. Before all this kneeling garbage only half the players did that and we never seemed to complain.

What needs to happen now is to turn the protest into real action. Start talking about foundations that help the cause, etc. Either that or ignore the whole thing and it will go away.
 
Planit said:
So is it still okay for Oriole fans to yell "Oh" louder in the middle of the national anthem than singing the entire song itself? Or the Braves fans yelling 'Braves" at the end? That's kinda disrespectful to the song/hence country.
Click to expand...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlanta_Knights

During their years in Atlanta, Rick Morgan was their full-time national anthem singer and encouraged the crowd to shout "KNIGHTS!" during the line, "Gave proof through the "KNIGHTS" that our flag was still there."[1] It was customary to hear an emphasized, shouted "KNIGHTS!" during the national anthem at Atlanta Thrashers games at Philips Arena by spectators in honor of the team.
Click to expand...
 
I have a super anti-kneeling family member who is going off about how once sponsors pull their funding and the NFL loses revenue, the owners will rethink supporting/allowing players to kneel during the National Anthem.

It's amazing that they did not seem to be aware that the BLM side of the issue was already calling for a boycott. Here's the thing: you don't like players kneeling? Listen to their issues, show you're willing to work to address them, start working with them on how to do that, and then most of them will start standing again. EVERYONE WINS!!!
 
dvdneal said:
But to me they are not disrespecting the idea of the US. We are all about being rebels and protesting and having our say. We're doing it right now. If you want the players to be respectful, tell them to stand still and put their hand over their hearts. Before all this kneeling garbage only half the players did that and we never seemed to complain.

What needs to happen now is to turn the protest into real action. Start talking about foundations that help the cause, etc. Either that or ignore the whole thing and it will go away.
Click to expand...

To do nothing is one thing, but to do the opposite of everyone else as a sign of defiance is disrespect. As for listening, perhaps instead of kneeling, perhaps if they actually spoke at a City Council Meeting of testified before a state government regarding their concerns, the people who can actually invoke change might listen.


As much as I hate the Dallas Cowboys, I have to compliment them on their way of protesting during MNF. They (including dirty old man Jones) linked arms and took a knee before the national anthem was played... Then they stood and stayed standing during the playing of the national anthem.

Please take note folks... that is how you do it. That is how you make a statement and stay respectful.



As for the other pictures of people like MLK and such kneeling. Can you tell me if any of those pictures were taking while the national anthem was playing? Given the context of the pictures... I doubt it.
 
Back
Top