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NEVERENDING ♾️ The NEVERENDING Political Discussion Thread

2 thoughts.

First of all, the new healthcare bill is worse than what we have now. I applaud the Senators who refuse to vote for it.

Second, it sounds like Obama knew of Russian tampering but worried that if he stepped in it would hurt Hillary.
 
michaelskis said:
2 thoughts.

First of all, the new healthcare bill is worse than what we have now. I applaud the Senators who refuse to vote for it.

Second, it sounds like Obama knew of Russian tampering but worried that if he stepped in it would hurt Hillary.
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The new healthcare bill is terrible. My read is that it is capable of making it worse than pre-ACA healthcare.

I don't envy Obama's position in trying to address Russian influence.

I think Obama worried that if he stepped in it would be perceived as him expressing bias in trying to influence the election himself. He was afraid of undermining the trust in the Office of the President during the election and causing it to look like a banana republic or police state. He saw it as having potential to hurt public institutions, not Hillary. I'm not saying he made the right decision--just that I understand how he arrived at it.

Ideally, he needed to seek out and find a way to say Russia was attempting to influence & act upon it without indicating the direction Russia was trying to influence. It sounds like they did stuff in the background to help prevent direct tampering, but I'm not sure how you deploy tools to address what was essentially a propaganda campaign without creating the illusion or unintended consequence of biasing the election. It would require a level of coordination between the current office holder and both campaigns that I don't think was/is possible in current campaign rhetoric. It would have required an unprecedented level of deescalation of a campaign.

Faced with a no-win scenario, he went with the one that he felt protected faith in the peaceful transfer of power. He likely felt that if there was enough evidence of collusion with Trump, there were sufficient Constitutional protections & processes in place to address it. Basically, protect the Office over the officeholder.
 
^^^Let's not forget Trump campaigning everywhere about the so-called "rigged election" and how Obama going after the Russian hacking/helping Clinton would have played out in that scenario.:-@
 
Gedunker said:
^^^Let's not forget Trump campaigning everywhere about the so-called "rigged election" and how Obama going after the Russian hacking/helping Clinton would have played out in that scenario.:-@
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and let's also remember that Obama closed 2 Russians compounds, expelled some dignitaries and levied more sanctions as a response to the information he was given concerning the election.

Was it enough? Was it the right path? Was he trying to downplay it? I, for one, think he was trying to 'protect' the election process. However I also think that no matter what he did, tRump and the Republicans would have gone all legal and sue anyone with a D next to their name.

tRump saying the election was rigged started with the primaries. One of his standard tactics is to raise an issue by making a wild statement that adds some question that must be addressed, no matter how unfounded it might be.
 
"If you are complacent and do nothing, then you are in support of the way things are." Those words spoken by an author on one of my podcasts almost caused me to drive off the road this morning.

The question is, at this point, in all seriousness, what can you do? You don't like things at the federal level, or a handful of states... what actions can you actually do to change things?
 
michaelskis said:
"If you are complacent and do nothing, then you are in support of the way things are." Those words spoken by an author on one of my podcasts almost caused me to drive off the road this morning.

The question is, at this point, in all seriousness, what can you do? You don't like things at the federal level, or a handful of states... what actions can you actually do to change things?
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Everyone always says "change starts at the local level!!". BUT, you and I and everyone else on this forum know that you don't get elected to town/city/county governing boards because of good ideas, you get elected because of who you know and how popular you are within your own party.
 
michaelskis said:
"If you are complacent and do nothing, then you are in support of the way things are." Those words spoken by an author on one of my podcasts almost caused me to drive off the road this morning.

The question is, at this point, in all seriousness, what can you do? You don't like things at the federal level, or a handful of states... what actions can you actually do to change things?
Click to expand...

A great example I've seen at the church of one of my friends is how the church has encouraged and supported members that have chosen to become foster parents and to adopt. One of the big issues a lot of people have with the "pro-life" political movement is how little is addressed to help families after children are born. Yet, this church has a large portion of their membership that are actually doing just that - caring for the children after they're born and supporting families in crisis. They can do that regardless of whether the laws about abortion ever change.
 
A few weeks ago, there was a study that came out that showed the increase in the minimum wage in Seattle had no negative effects on the population. But a few days ago, a University of Washington study came out showing that it hurt low income workers and that there would be 5,000 more jobs if it was not for the wage increase.

What are your thoughts on this?

(Link to favorable study)
(Link to U of W study)
 
michaelskis said:
A few weeks ago, there was a study that came out that showed the increase in the minimum wage in Seattle had no negative effects on the population. But a few days ago, a University of Washington study came out showing that it hurt low income workers and that there would be 5,000 more jobs if it was not for the wage increase.

What are your thoughts on this?

(Link to favorable study)
(Link to U of W study)
Click to expand...

Yeah, about all that...

http://www.seattleweekly.com/news/seattle-is-getting-an-object-lesson-in-weaponized-data/

There’s an old joke that economics is the only field where two people can win the Nobel Prize for saying the exact opposite thing. However, by all appearances these two takeaways on Seattle’s historic minimum wage law are not a symptom of the vagaries of a social science but an object lesson in how quickly data can get weaponized in political debates like Seattle’s minimum wage fight. In short, the Mayor’s Office knew the unflattering UW report was coming out, and reached out to other researchers to kick the tires on what threatened to be a damaging report to a central achievement of Ed Murray’s tenure as mayor.
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Mr. President, your tweet was beneath the office and represents what is wrong with American politics, not the greatness of America.
— Lindsey Graham (@LindseyGrahamSC) June 29, 2017


Please just stop. This isn't normal and it's beneath the dignity of your office.
— Ben Sasse (@BenSasse) June 29, 2017
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-joe-hosts-on-twitter/?utm_term=.616798edfeb1

“It’s a sad day for America when the president spends his time bullying, lying and spewing petty personal attacks instead of doing his job.”
MSNBC
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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/29/business/media/trump-mika-brzezinski-facelift.html
 
Wasn't the First Lady (we have one of those, right?) planning on making stopping internet bullying one of her priorities? How's that working out?
 
WSU MUP Student said:
Wasn't the First Lady (we have one of those, right?) planning on making stopping internet bullying one of her priorities? How's that working out?
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The sad thing is yea, people were talking crap about Trump... but he is the President and he should just take the higher road and ignore it. Instead he takes it to a whole new level of low.
 
Simple and easy.....

michaelskis said:
A few weeks ago, there was a study that came out that showed the increase in the minimum wage in Seattle had no negative effects on the population. But a few days ago, a University of Washington study came out showing that it hurt low income workers and that there would be 5,000 more jobs if it was not for the wage increase.

What are your thoughts on this?

(Link to favorable study)
(Link to U of W study)
Click to expand...

Pay a living wage and maximize full time employment through scheduling. {PERIOD}

I'm tired of subsidizing massive corporations through social supports to employees that can't live on crap wages. It wouldn't be so bad if those same corporations gave a SHIT about America and their employees in general and didn't stockpile all that subsidized money overseas. Oh and if their pay just kept up with inflation.....a bare minimum expectation. Too many other supporting reasons to list here.
 
The One said:
Pay a living wage and maximize full time employment through scheduling. {PERIOD}

I'm tired of subsidizing massive corporations through social supports to employees that can't live on crap wages. It wouldn't be so bad if those same corporations gave a SHIT about America and their employees in general and didn't stockpile all that subsidized money overseas. Oh and if their pay just kept up with inflation.....a bare minimum expectation. Too many other supporting reasons to list here.
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I am tired of subsidizing... PERIOD. Either make it in the free market or don't. If people don't like what a place pays their employees, don't shop or do business with them. If you don't like their business model, don't give them your money.

Why do we tell the government to "DO SOMETHING" when we as a society are unwilling to do it ourselves. We as a society have the power to control this country based on the way we spend our money... but until people stop looking for convenience, nothing is going to change. BUT NOOOOOO, we don't want to be inconvenienced so instead we post support statements on facebook about low wages while we walk into walmart and buy clothing made in sweatshops and then stop off for a bigmac on the way home.

Support small businesses that pay their people well!
 
How did we miss this - probably good to bring it up on the 4th - Independence Day ?

Donald Trump blames constitution for chaos of his first 100 days
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...stitution-for-first-100-days-chaos-presidency

He blamed the constitutional checks and balances built in to US governance. "It's a very rough system," he said. "It's an archaic system … It's really a bad thing for the country."
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Trump wants more power and fewer checks and balances — again
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...idating-his-own-power/?utm_term=.86b10c3820fd

Donald Trump doesn't like the "archaic" Constitution: "It's really a bad thing for the country"
http://www.salon.com/2017/05/01/don...ution-its-really-a-bad-thing-for-the-country/


The Constitution has worked pretty well for 200 + years has it not ?
 
Chris Christie is one big fat stupid fck: Closing down the entire N. J state park system so he can have the whole beach to himself.

After Hurricane Sandy, I actually had high hopes for Christie and that bipartisanship could be possible. But it wasn't long before Christie showed his true colors in typical GOP fashion after Tollgate and then becoming a Trump sycophant after he dropped out of the Presidential race.

But shutting down the entire public beach system on the busiest day the whole summer is a new low, even by GOP standards. He's out in six months, but the damage he has done is insurmountable. He needs to be removed from office and thrown in jail for all the atrocities he has committed over the past four years.
 
of all the Christie Beach memes - I like this one
and I like what my friend said posting it -

I can hear the music now. ...
I hope the shark doesn't get sick. ..
19665249_10213596137042564_8898624003339916343_n.jpg
 
JNA said:
hl-mencken.jpg

http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/whitehousemoron.asp
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You did link Snopes, and here's the actual Mencken quote - not sure why the creator of your jpeg chose to change it (#fakequote):

As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.
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Well damn, pResident tRump was actually telling the truth when he kept saying the election was rigged...Junior just confirmed it.
 
Are you pleading the 5th ?
Are you drinking from the 5th ?
Are you celebrating the 5th quarter (Wisconsin reference)
Are you the 5th man ?
 
During the campaign, pResitent tRump called Obama's Iran deal the worst ever and vowed to kill it. Yesterday he signed the renewal.

:r:
 
First he encourages service-men and -women to lobby Congress for additional defense spending thereby trying to politicize the military, and now his speech to the Scout jamboree.

Parents angered by Trump speech

I think references to Hitler Youth a bit stretched, but not by much.
 
There are several Cyburbians who were scouts & a few Eagle Scouts -

Are you appalled by Trump's speech at the National Jamboree ?



Trump’s Boy Scouts speech broke with 80 years of presidential tradition
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...residential-tradition/?utm_term=.da8b8f0618b4

HIGHLIGHT -
Here, by way of illustration, is an abbreviated history of American presidents and their encounters with the Boy Scouts jamboree.
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A complete history of presidential visits at National Jamborees
https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2...of-presidential-visits-at-national-jamborees/
 
For what it's worth I was a cub scout for a few years, but I can't say that molded my values. I won't blame the scouts on this one. It's an honor to have the president speak at your function. I'll blame the president who doesn't know what appropriate subject matter would be for a group of scouts. They don't care how you beat Hillary or how evil the media is. You just some speech on how important it is to be involved in your community or why boy scout values and leadership are important. Every speech is not a place for you to spout your ideology.
 
JNA said:
There are several Cyburbians who were scouts & a few Eagle Scouts -

Are you appalled by Trump's speech at the National Jamboree ?



Trump’s Boy Scouts speech broke with 80 years of presidential tradition
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...residential-tradition/?utm_term=.da8b8f0618b4

HIGHLIGHT -


A complete history of presidential visits at National Jamborees
https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2...of-presidential-visits-at-national-jamborees/
Click to expand...

A bit off topic but I'm in the picture of Nancy Reagan at the 1985 Jamboree. The President was recovering from his polyp surgery and she came instead. Which is actually pretty cool since they could have just bagged the whole thing. Scouts was very important to me and I had a fantastic time and did a lot of really fun stuff and learned a lot of skills I still use today.
 
dvdneal said:
For what it's worth I was a cub scout for a few years, but I can't say that molded my values. I won't blame the scouts on this one. It's an honor to have the president speak at your function. I'll blame the president who doesn't know what appropriate subject matter would be for a group of scouts. They don't care how you beat Hillary or how evil the media is. You just some speech on how important it is to be involved in your community or why boy scout values and leadership are important. Every speech is not a place for you to spout your ideology.
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Scout troops are pretty much hit and miss. Mine was completely worthless, leadership sucked and there wasn't much of a reason to participate. I believe I got to the 4th grade Webelos step before I quit. I joined Civil Air Patrol later on and it was more of the same, poorly run BUT it wasn't as bad as Scouts. Neither molded my values either.

In fact, I never once attended a Scout camp, but I did attend a Girl Scout camp twice with my sister as a "my brother and me" thing. Not sure what that says about either organization though.

All that said, Trump is on a mission to do everything differently. Every single long held "tradition" will be thrown out the window in his quest to be the trendsetter. This was expected IMO.
 
I was an Eagle Scout. I do not say that I still am an Eagle Scout, because I feel the BSA badly lost its way and I no longer identify with them. Theoretically you are an Eagle Scout for life, but I do not and will not support the organization at this point. They screwed-up far too badly with their treatment of those individuals with different/non-traditional genders & sexual orientations, as well as the non-religious. They've adjusted some, but for me it is too little too late.

The fact that they gave such a tepid response to Trump's disrespect of the Jamboree's purpose is infuriating, and is further continuation of my dissatisfaction with the organization. It is clear they did not lay out any expectations, which they should have known would be necessary given what has been witnessed with Trump elsewhere.

It is a shame, because I was part of an outstanding troop growing up. It was actually diverse, and we did tons of cool outdoors stuff. I fell in love with hiking, and it is where I discovered kayaking & canoeing. A couple of the kids were obviously beginning to question their orientation & feelings as they entered puberty, and the adult leaders never batted an eye about it other than they were always very strict about us not tearing down one another (you know the usual middle school BS). One kid had a single mom that was heavily involved, and I learned much later she was actually gay (turns out she was keeping it a secret from from everyone and even her son at the time out of fear it could jeopardize child custody).

I don't regret my Boy Scout experience or my Eagle Scout honor, but I have stepped away from the organization except for helping with Eagle Scout projects associated with my job.
 
Trump just announced he's banning transgender people from serving in the military. This will be an epic fight and I can't wait for the flak to hit.
 
AG74683 said:
Trump just announced he's banning transgender people from serving in the military. This will be an epic fight and I can't wait for the flak to hit.
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Is this some sort of issue he cares about personally? Is there a great public hue and cry currently playing out this issue?

Or is it possible this a calculated move to create controversy and draw public attention away from something else?
 
Maister said:
Is this some sort of issue he cares about personally? Is there a great public hue and cry currently playing out this issue?

Or is it possible this a calculated move to create controversy and draw public attention away from something else?
Click to expand...

Obama had one stance on the issue, Trump must have the opposite.
 
AG74683 said:
Trump just announced he's banning transgender people from serving in the military. This will be an epic fight and I can't wait for the flak to hit.
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It may be a fight but it sure shouldn't be "epic". I honestly think most people don't give two shits about the issue because they know those folks are not going into the "wrong" bathroom with the intent to commit some sort of atrocity against the next person to enter. It's a total red herring, just like gay marriage, banning guns and flag burning have been in the past. Deflect and distract, the name of the game.
 
AG74683 said:
[STRIKEOUT]Obama had[/STRIKEOUT] Civilized people have one stance on the issue, Trump must have the opposite.
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There... I fixed it for you.




In reality, I don't think that there is anyone in America who fully agrees with Trump on all issues. It still amazes me that he beat Hillary. I don't like her either, but I really thought that there was no possible way that a sideshow barker could take down one of the most corrupt political families in history.
 
Trump says upstate New Yorkers should move, leave homes behind
http://www.timesunion.com/7day-busi...te-New-Yorkers-should-move-leave-11437258.php

Trump said upstate New Yorkers should pick up and move to states like Wisconsin, which have better job prospects.
"You're going to need people to work in these massive plants," Trump told the Wall Street Journal.
"I'm going to start explaining to people, when you have an area that just isn't working like upper New York state, where people are getting very badly hurt, and then you'll have another area 500 miles away where you can't get people, I'm going to explain, you can leave.
It's OK. Don't worry about your house."
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Man. All those facebook posts from the haters talking about how McCain wasn't a hero because he was voting to take healthcare away from American citizens, and then his surprise no vote defeats yet another republican-backed healthcare replacement bill... I mean, I'm glad because I think it's bad policy to vote in favor of a bill that you absolutely do not want to actually get implemented.
 
gtpeach said:
Man. All those facebook posts from the haters talking about how McCain wasn't a hero because he was voting to take healthcare away from American citizens, and then his surprise no vote defeats yet another republican-backed healthcare replacement bill... I mean, I'm glad because I think it's bad policy to vote in favor of a bill that you absolutely do not want to actually get implemented.
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That's the thing... he was voting to allow the Senate to proceed with debate of the bill. It now appears he did that knowing full-well that it was going to fail at his hand as well as the hands of Collins & Murkowski. I've seen a Councilmember make a motion to approve something, only to vote against it as a means of "getting on with it."

I laugh about all of this "statesman hero" talk with McCain. The guy is not and has never been a "maverick," and has reliably voted his party. He also isn't the only person in Congress undergoing cancer treatment.

That being said, the video of him strolling in, waving for attention, and then giving a thumbs down "no" vote Caesar-style was pretty gangsta. :D I mean, he did it right in front of McConnell's face, only a few feet away.
 
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Suburb Repairman said:
That being said, the video of him strolling in, waving for attention, and then giving a thumbs down "no" vote Caesar-style was pretty gangsta. :D I mean, he did it right in front of McConnell's face, only a few feet away.
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I agree with your sentiments about McCain never really living up to the "Maverick" moniker and also agree that the theatrics of his "no" vote were indeed pretty great. McConnell's body language and clear displeasure made it all that much better.
 
"The Mooch" has been fired after 10 days on the job for cussing like a New Yorker. :D;):h:




FORE: pResident tRump complained about all the golf Obama played and not staying at in Washington to do his job. Two most recent observations on that: First, when tRump demanded the congressman to stay in Washington and finish the health care deal, he immediately left for a golf trip; Second, tRump has spent 22% of his total number of days in the WH on the golf course. Just an observation.
 
Planit said:
"The Mooch" has been fired after 10 days on the job for cussing like a New Yorker. :D;):h:
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Yeah, I guessed that shtick wasn't going to play very far from Long Guyland.

Nor with a Marine General for a new boss.
 
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