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NEVERENDING ♾️ The NEVERENDING Political Discussion Thread

The Terminator said:
Lets end this abortion debate once and for all!

Michael -sorry bro, but obvs less and less people agree with you as the climate on women's rights is changing. However, Lets talk about something we both agree on, the 2nd Amendment! I personally like the Walther PPK because James Bond and its versatility, conceal-ability and that it takes .380 ammo. LOCK N LOAD!!
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I realize that I am in the minority here, but I think it is still awesome that we can have a civil discussion about it without going all Trump Rally.

As for .380, why don't you just go with a 22 or a water gun? Personally, I like the 9mm M&P shield for concealed carry (shoots like a full size but hides like a ghost), and the SR1911 commander for recreational shooting. But nothing says get the F out of my house like a pump action 12 gauge with a 500 lumen tactical light mounted to the picatinny rail.
 
Has anyone gotten screwed over on their taxes because of the Government? We haven't but I just talked to a buddy in WI who has to pay in $8,000.
 
michaelskis said:
Has anyone gotten screwed over on their taxes because of the Government? We haven't but I just talked to a buddy in WI who has to pay in $8,000.
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Sadly raises hand. I can't find any loopholes. ;) Man I need an offshore account or something. I've heard Panama is nice....
 
Hink said:
Sadly raises hand. I can't find any loopholes. ;) Man I need an offshore account or something. I've heard Panama is nice....
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I can only find the obvious ones like owning a home, having student loan debt, and the glorious deduction of children. So tell me more about this Panama place.
 
Bubba said:
He has to pay taxes he owes? The horror...
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Ummm, no.

He does not have an awesome job and his insurance was going to be $1,600 a month though the exchange. Well he noticed that his income was such that he was able to get subsidised insurance. In June 2015, his family sold some land in Michigan and he is listed as one of the former owners. The property has closed and he will get a share, but it is on some delayed payment schedule. According to his accountant, because the sale showed up as income for 2015 and he does not have money in hand, it put him $5.00 over the threshold for subsidised insurance. So he owes it all back plus a penalty.

He said that without the amount he got from the sale (which he will get way less than $8,000), he would have gotten a refund.

dvdneal said:
I can only find the obvious ones like owning a home, having student loan debt, and the glorious deduction of children. So tell me more about this Panama place.
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I hear that Panama is nice this time of year.

All of our stuff was sent off to the accountant on Friday. We are waiting to hear back.
 
michaelskis said:
Ummm, no.

He does not have an awesome job and his insurance was going to be $1,600 a month though the exchange. Well he noticed that his income was such that he was able to get subsidised insurance. In June 2015, his family sold some land in Michigan and he is listed as one of the former owners. The property has closed and he will get a share, but it is on some delayed payment schedule. According to his accountant, because the sale showed up as income for 2015 and he does not have money in hand, it put him $5.00 over the threshold for subsidised insurance. So he owes it all back plus a penalty.

He said that without the amount he got from the sale (which he will get way less than $8,000), he would have gotten a refund.
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Ah. Thanks for the more detailed explanation.
 
Democrats have superdelegates and republicans have Colorado, Wyoming, and and North Dakota. Further proof that the whole system is rigged.

Think about it for a moment, Sanders could win more state delegates, but lose to Clinton because of superdelegates. Trump could win the majority of the state primaries (which is a tragedy by itself) by a very small margin, but Cruz could become the nominee if CO, ND, and WY choose to have their delegates go to him.
 
Hmmm

michaelskis said:
Democrats have superdelegates and republicans have Colorado, Wyoming, and and North Dakota. Further proof that the whole system is rigged.

Think about it for a moment, Sanders could win more state delegates, but lose to Clinton because of superdelegates. Trump could win the majority of the state primaries (which is a tragedy by itself) by a very small margin, but Cruz could become the nominee if CO, ND, and WY choose to have their delegates go to him.
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Cleveland better GIRD their loins for the convention this year......Better be planning for that mess right now. Bernies flock will do some hand wringing and demanding that certain issues be front and center....then fall in line for the most part. If Hillary wins and doesn't at least try.....look out 2020!! I'll vote for Mskis:D;)
 
So this morning I figured out why 'Merica loves Trump. He's providing bar solutions to all our problems.

So dude those damn immigrants.:b:
I've got an idea, lets build a giant freakin wall to keep 'em out.:b:
Yeah! And we'll make Mexico pay for it. :beers:
Dude! :beers:

And once again the world's problems are solved at the bar with a couple ​:beers:
 
The craziness regarding HB2 in NC continues to grow. The Gov is backing down a bit and reintroducing some measures, but keeping others.

It made me wonder though, should the state regulate who can use which locker room or bathroom? If so, how should the gender determination be made? If you had a 16 year old daughter, would you want someone who is a biological boy in the locker room with her?

Personally, I don't think that HB2 is needed and I agree that there were some of the provisions that were not appropriate. However the concept of personal privacy and safety raises some interesting questions, but this bill does not address it. Much like gun laws, those who are going to do harm to someone are not going to stop because the sign on the door says girls or boys.
 
michaelskis said:
The craziness regarding HB2 in NC continues to grow. The Gov is backing down a bit and reintroducing some measures, but keeping others.

It made me wonder though, should the state regulate who can use which locker room or bathroom? If so, how should the gender determination be made? If you had a 16 year old daughter, would you want someone who is a biological boy in the locker room with her?

Personally, I don't think that HB2 is needed and I agree that there were some of the provisions that were not appropriate. However the concept of personal privacy and safety raises some interesting questions, but this bill does not address it. Much like gun laws, those who are going to do harm to someone are not going to stop because the sign on the door says girls or boys.
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HB2 is the biggest crock of shit that I've seen in a LONG time. There! I said it! Wasting nearly 50,000 dollars of our tax money to call a special session about people using the damn bathroom. This wasn't even a problem until the state made it a problem. All they managed to do was provide an excuse for men to be in the women's bathroom "OH I can be here I am transgender. My birth certificate? Well I tried to get it but the city it's registered in doesn't take check or credit card payments, only money orders!". Freakin wakadoos out there. I was watching the news and some woman was making the complaint that she doesn't want to feel like she has to look over her back while using the bathroom because a man might be in it. THAT CAN HAPPEN NOW. Like literally there is no preventative measure to keep men out of women's bathrooms besides simply asking them not to. There's no genital scanner outside of a public restroom last I checked. PLUS, gender reassignment surgery DOES NOT compel the individual to actually have their birth certificate changed. So realistically, you could see transgender women who by all accounts look like men and have surgeon created man parts IN THE WOMEN'S FREAKING BATHROOM. They should just forbid public restrooms and do away with the problem entirely.

If I had a 16 year old daughter, I wouldn't give two shits if someone who was a biological boy but has undergone reassignment surgery to become a woman was in the same locker room with her. People don't just arbitrarily choose the surgery and use it to prey on the opposite gender, they do it because they genuinely feel incomplete as their biological gender. I have never heard of anyone going to a surgeon and saying "Yup! Snip it off doc! I need access to the women's locker room!"

HB2 is nothing but a political tool wielded by McCrory to force Roy Cooper into a difficult position. Does Cooper publicly decry the bill and refuse to support it (which he did), or enforce the bill and do his job as perceived by the general public and look terrible to his constituents? McCrory foolishly under estimated the backlash against it though. People perceive the whole Paypal thing as such a big deal, but Paypal has offices all over the world, including Saudi Arabia the undisputed kings of unequal rights. Paypal saw an opportunity to look good to the masses and took it.
 
AG74683 said:
HB2 is nothing but a political tool wielded by McCrory to force Roy Cooper into a difficult position. Does Cooper publicly decry the bill and refuse to support it (which he did), or enforce the bill and do his job as perceived by the general public and look terrible to his constituents? McCrory foolishly under estimated the backlash against it though. People perceive the whole Paypal thing as such a big deal, but Paypal has offices all over the world, including Saudi Arabia the undisputed kings of unequal rights. Paypal saw an opportunity to look good to the masses and took it.
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Indiana tried and ultimately back tracked on their religious zealot / bigot law. Pence didn't want to fight an uphill battle and caved. I anticipate that the same will happen over time in NC. In the end if enough businesses say no thanks to the research triangle, I think NC will change the rules. Look at Georgia.

The law is just an attempt by a staunchly religious group to push their "values" on others. I find it amazing the lengths that they will go to protect against situations that don't happen, just so they can say they are protecting the family, or children. Come on. I would imagine that people can't name one time where they thought a man entered the women's bathroom to take advantage of the view. I have had multiple women in the men's bathroom, and we move along. My kids weren't threatened, and it turns out I am alive.

We have entered into a political climate that is so hypocritical it is painful. Ban Muslims. Ban transgendered people. Ban marriage equality. Don't ban guns. Don't ban a specific religion from schools.

Not to make my libertarian bent clear, but seriously. Laws like these are stupid. If the republicans want laws for the people and by the people, let the cities make their laws. Don't ban them from allowing a higher minimum wage or protections for the LGBT community. If a local government wants that, let them do it. When the Federal government makes mandates the world is ending, yet this is supported by the NC republicans. What?

Let's focus on the economy. I mean that or foreign affairs. You know, the things that matter.
 
Stupid question, but how many women (or men) are actually running around the bathroom with their pants down? Don't the ladies have stalls? I don't know about you, but my pants are zipped before I leave the stall or turn around.
 
The (overzealous far right) republican legislature in NC has been passing laws like this since they were elected a couple years ago. When they first got in (I mean within a month of being sworn in), they started changing many well-established long-standing laws. This just follows suit.

It is also a stand against the (liberal) leadership in Charlotte, Pat's former place of election. He was actually a fairly moderate and reasonable mayor there for several years. Plus there has always been a fight in NC over which city has more say - the financial powerhouse of Charlotte or the capital of Raleigh. This far right legislature and the that's still my city Governor wants to sow who's boss.

Have you ever seen a 'unisex' or 'family' restroom. Well use it if you're scared someone will follow you in a bathroom.
 
THIS IS COMPLETE BULL CRAAAAAAP

THIS WHOLE DAMN SYSTEM IS RIGGED.

100,000+ voters in New York deemed ineligible by the NYC Board of Elections. Despite registering months in advance? Wtf? Glad I stayed registered as an Independent and didnt get caught up in this Primary mess. If some Hillary-bot poll worker tried to revoke my right to vote on a technicality, I would be FUMING! More than I already am.

Closed Primaries play into the hands of the Machine. For both Parties! Scum like Dean Skelos and Sheldon Silver made it this way to disenfranchise all types of progressive voters.

DeBlasio's introductory pep rally for Hillary was absolutely shameful. He know's who he is pleasing, Manhattan bankers and developers not the marganilized communities who voted him on false promises. If that mamaluke had even one progressive bone in his body, He'd be with Bernie. Hillary saying things like "Ban the Box" and "Systemic Racism" is like when Ahnold in The Terminator mimics your loved ones voice right as he's about to kill you.

And the Empire State Building being lit RED tonight for Trump? Insulting to the city where "give me your tired, your poor" is enshrined on Lady Liberty. And Trump saying he cares about our Veterans, my ass. He doesn't give a sh*t about the millions of Iraq and Afghanistan vets suffering from PTSD or homeless on the streets of Manhattan. Go to 34th Street on any given day, you'll see them. Want to help vets? Dont promise to grow our already bloated military and start more needless wars!! And those "trade deals" and our best buisinessmen renogiating them? PLEASE, these slimebags brought us the financial crisis of 2008. If he wins, America is DONE.

What are my fellow spineless millennials gonna do now? When Bernie inevatibly concedes this summer and herds his followers to the Democratic ticket? Complain on social media and not do jack sh!!t, I bet. No not the A for effort generation. I'd like to see a REAL movement and have what happened in 1968 happen everywhere!!!!

Lighting my cigar tonight with a Hillary sign as im f**king burning it.

SHUT THIS SYSTEM DOWN. VA FANGOOL TO THE WHOLE THING!

*end rant*

-Disillusioned New York voter.
 
My only comment on the NY Primary is, did you really think Trump and Clinton wouldn't win? Why would you have ever thought that? The numbers were really clear going in. It wasn't if, it was by how much.

Sure the closed primary system is rough, but the rules have been in place for a long time.

I think in the end this primary season is making people look at a political system that they generally have ignored. In that sense, this long drawn out fight is a good thing for our country. The fact that we have to deal with listening to these people is obviously a negative, but if we can get people interested in the system and actually voting, that is probably a net good.
 
Hink said:
My only comment on the NY Primary is, did you really think Trump and Clinton wouldn't win? Why would you have ever thought that? The numbers were really clear going in. It wasn't if, it was by how much.

Sure the closed primary system is rough, but the rules have been in place for a long time.

I think in the end this primary season is making people look at a political system that they generally have ignored. In that sense, this long drawn out fight is a good thing for our country. The fact that we have to deal with listening to these people is obviously a negative, but if we can get people interested in the system and actually voting, that is probably a net good.
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I agree 100% with everything you just posted and pray that people start waking up to the system and realizing that we could do better. But the problems are at every level of the process. Some states do one thing, other states do something else, super delegates, campaign finance, super pacs, and winner take all vs breaking up the delegates.

It is likely that Clinton and Trump will be the nominees and in November, the most common thought at the polls will be WTF, this is the best we can do?
 
Hink said:
My only comment on the NY Primary is, did you really think Trump and Clinton wouldn't win? Why would you have ever thought that? The numbers were really clear going in. It wasn't if, it was by how much.

Sure the closed primary system is rough, but the rules have been in place for a long time.

I think in the end this primary season is making people look at a political system that they generally have ignored. In that sense, this long drawn out fight is a good thing for our country. The fact that we have to deal with listening to these people is obviously a negative, but if we can get people interested in the system and actually voting, that is probably a net good.
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I thought Sanders really did quite well with the numbers given that it was pretty much a done deal from the outset. I suspect those numbers will rise whenever the provisional ballots are counted. I think he'll stay in it until the convention, just to prove a point. I still believe he will beat Trump while Clinton will lose to him. There is too much backlash against the system this time, and the outsider candidate will win.

At the very least, Sanders and Trump have done serious damage to the political machine in this country. No matter the outcome of the election, they both have laid the groundwork for a revolutionary candidate to emerge in the next 10-20 years.
 
Well now it's getting personal. Ted Cruz will be speaking at our historic downtown theatre tomorrow morning at 10. It's only a block from my office and we're anticipating a parking/traffic nightmare. I'm thinking tomorrow may be a good day to arrive very early. But I am planning on walking up just to see the show outside. I'm really hoping for protestors and general mayhem.
 
Hink said:
Sadly raises hand. I can't find any loopholes. ;) Man I need an offshore account or something. I've heard Panama is nice....
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My health insurance is via the ACA, and I am allowed a subsidy. Things worked out very well.

Also, since I owned two houses for much of last year, the property tax refund came into play. And a home heating credit.

Most years the amount of goods I donate comes up as a wash.

Just looked up the old "income averaging" rule, which has been revoked. The details I found suggested making a contributing to an IRA or similar retirement account, which needs to happen during the tax year or before April 15. Plan ahead.


(used to work at a tax software developer, back before you could e-file)
 
Ted Cruz and John Kasich team up to stop Trump. http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-...s/2016/04/ted-cruz-john-kasich-team-up-222377

This isn't exactly as sexy as the title suggests, but it does show how Cruz is giving up any chance of winning outright. Mathematically he couldn't, but I figured his math skills are probably on par with his science skills....

I am on sure what value this brings either Cruz or Kasich. I think as a PR thing, it looks bad. I think as a delegate winner / blocker it isn't enough to matter. I am not sure beyond the fact that they are planning on going Pres and VP into the convention and arguing why Trump shouldn't win....

Our country is a vast and interesting place. Our politics are just odd.
 
Hink said:
Ted Cruz and John Kasich team up to stop Trump. http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-...s/2016/04/ted-cruz-john-kasich-team-up-222377

This isn't exactly as sexy as the title suggests, but it does show how Cruz is giving up any chance of winning outright. Mathematically he couldn't, but I figured his math skills are probably on par with his science skills....

I am on sure what value this brings either Cruz or Kasich. I think as a PR thing, it looks bad. I think as a delegate winner / blocker it isn't enough to matter. I am not sure beyond the fact that they are planning on going Pres and VP into the convention and arguing why Trump shouldn't win....

Our country is a vast and interesting place. Our politics are just odd.
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It is all a mess, but at least it should be fascinating entertainment until I realize that it is real.
 
The HB2 bill is being discussed again and it is getting beyond ridiculous. Some people are calling it a form of segregation which I think is BS. Yes the bill sucks, and I have a theory that it is not about transgender people, but more about retaliation. It all started because the City of Charlotte passed a bill, and then the Gov had a bill introduced to override that bill. The Gov was the Mayor of Charlotte... I think there is more to this than people are letting on. But people on both sides of the issue are just getting stupid about it.
 
What are your thoughts on doing away with gender spacific restrooms and locker rooms. The YMCA already has "family" locker rooms. This way it does away with the whole who should use which restroom debate.
 
michaelskis said:
The HB2 bill is being discussed again and it is getting beyond ridiculous. Some people are calling it a form of segregation which I think is BS. Yes the bill sucks, and I have a theory that it is not about transgender people, but more about retaliation. It all started because the City of Charlotte passed a bill, and then the Gov had a bill introduced to override that bill. The Gov was the Mayor of Charlotte... I think there is more to this than people are letting on. But people on both sides of the issue are just getting stupid about it.
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The purpose was to push Roy Cooper into a tough position and harm his campaign. Does Cooper refuse to fight for the bill and appear to the uneducated masses that he's not doing his job (which he did) or stand up for the bill as Attorney General and look bad in front of his supporters.

McCrory used it as a weapon to win re-election. That is all there is to it, plain and simple. He doesn't give a shit about Charlotte and he certainly doesn't care about the real issues.
 
If you are the governor of a state and one of these bathroom bills comes across your desk, you should ask yourself several questions:
"Is this going to be my legacy?"
"Do I really want to be on the side of history favoring taking an inventory of naughty bits to determine which public bathroom a person can use?"
"And just how much economic decline and lost tourism dollars am I willing to lose before I capitulate?"

Guess it could make you famous in some circles, if it is a hill you are willing to die on?

After all, if Custer didn't make his last stand, he would likely be remembered as the commander who slaughtered Cheyenne and Arapaho women and children at the Battle of Washita River.
 
But seriously, what are your thoughts on doing away with gender specific bathrooms? They say it is for our "protection" but I am not convinced that there is much of a reason for them.
 
michaelskis said:
But seriously, what are your thoughts on doing away with gender specific bathrooms? They say it is for our "protection" but I am not convinced that there is much of a reason for them.
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Do away with public restrooms entirely. Our tax dollars shouldn't go to buying toilet paper and cleaning up dirty restrooms that people don't feel the need to take care of. Boom, problem solved. In NC, only buildings serving food and/or drink are required to have a restroom as far as I know.
 
michaelskis said:
What are your thoughts on doing away with gender spacific restrooms and locker rooms. The YMCA already has "family" locker rooms. This way it does away with the whole who should use which restroom debate.
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This is already the norm in many other countries. Most have a single big room with sinks, mirrors, etc. and then lockable individual stalls (with real doors) that can be used by either. Some also have a separate room of urinals (just to speed things up). It creates privacy where you need it, but doesn't care a bit about your bits & pieces. It also makes life easier for parents bringing children in and tends to result in a more efficient use of space.

It isn't like gender-separate restrooms prevent bad things from happening. It isn't like they are monitored today. The only thing that really stops someone of the opposite gender from going into a designated restroom is cultural custom.

The GOP making this an actual topic in politics is a disgrace. Fighting the culture war like this is reminiscent of Sisyphus.
 
Suburb Repairman said:
This is already the norm in many other countries. Most have a single big room with sinks, mirrors, etc. and then lockable individual stalls (with real doors) that can be used by either. Some also have a separate room of urinals (just to speed things up). It creates privacy where you need it, but doesn't care a bit about your bits & pieces. It also makes life easier for parents bringing children in and tends to result in a more efficient use of space.

It isn't like gender-separate restrooms prevent bad things from happening. It isn't like they are monitored today. The only thing that really stops someone of the opposite gender from going into a designated restroom is cultural custom.

The GOP making this an actual topic in politics is a disgrace. Fighting the culture war like this is reminiscent of Sisyphus.
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I agree and personally, I think that there are so many ways to address it that people won't take into consideration. The family locker rooms at the YMCA for example. It is a large room with lockers that have lockable stall like rooms that have a sink, toilet, and shower.
 
Who would you be more excited to see in your fair community - Bill or Donald ?

It has been reported both are making an appearance in my fair community. :r: :-|
 
Suburb Repairman said:
This is already the norm in many other countries. Most have a single big room with sinks, mirrors, etc. and then lockable individual stalls (with real doors) that can be used by either. Some also have a separate room of urinals (just to speed things up). It creates privacy where you need it, but doesn't care a bit about your bits & pieces. It also makes life easier for parents bringing children in and tends to result in a more efficient use of space.
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Man that really freaked me out when I ended up in one of those bathrooms in Bulgaria. It was some crazy club and by the time I ended up in the bathroom I was pretty drunk. I was really confused when there were both men and women in the bathroom and didn't know if I picked the right one. This one didn't even have a separate room for the urinals, it was right out in the open like a standard men's room.
 
McSorely's Tavern in NYC didn't admit women until the 1970s (I believe there was a lawsuit) so it only has one restroom and it's not uncommon to be at the urinal when a gal walks in and heads to the stall. So far as I know, there's never been an issue.
 
Go to any concert. There's a huge line outside the women's restroom and a faster line at the men's. I've seen women walk in every time. The guys just let them skip ahead if a stall opens up. I don't think the ladies want a bunch of men in the ladies, but it still works if we let it.
 
Trump thumps the 5 new england states and Clinton wins 4 of 5.

So the question is - Does the Republican establishment allow Trump to win? I think Clinton and Trump are actually closer in policy then they let on, just Trump uses vitriolic language to get his point across. I don't see taxes changing under either. Maybe some push for stronger social programs under Clinton, but I think Trump is more progressive then he is allowed to say in the primary. He isn't going to go after gay rights or abortion clinics.

So what is different? A wall that won't ever be built? Foreign diplomacy is certainly one thing.
 
Hink said:
So what is different? A wall that won't ever be built? Foreign diplomacy is certainly one thing.
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We can probably expect Trump to act on his protectionist platform. Not sure how he'd convince congress to pass another Smoot-Hawley tariff, but I'm fairly certain he'd try his darnedest.
 
Maister said:
We can probably expect Trump to act on his protectionist platform. Not sure how he'd convince congress to pass another Smoot-Hawley tariff, but I'm fairly certain he'd try his darnedest.
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That is the thing that worries me slightly less about Trump. He is so far in La-La land that congress won't agree to much of anything that he will want to do, regardless of which party holds the House and Senate. If Trump gets elected, not much will change for 4 years. Congress won't sit by and let him use executive orders much, the world already hates us, so that won't change much, and the federal reserve will continue to play puppet master with the economy.

I think it might be helpful because it might raise enough eyes to the process and the system that we will get real candidates in 4 years.
 
Hink said:
Trump thumps the 5 new england states and Clinton wins 4 of 5.

So the question is - Does the Republican establishment allow Trump to win? I think Clinton and Trump are actually closer in policy then they let on, just Trump uses vitriolic language to get his point across. I don't see taxes changing under either. Maybe some push for stronger social programs under Clinton, but I think Trump is more progressive then he is allowed to say in the primary. He isn't going to go after gay rights or abortion clinics.

So what is different? A wall that won't ever be built? Foreign diplomacy is certainly one thing.
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Realistically, as President, Trump will probably be pretty lame duck. The GOP won't work with him and neither will the Dems. Anything he does that is really major would need to be through executive action and those will all disappear on January 1st, 2020. If the election comes down to Trump V. Clinton, strangely enough I think Trump is the safer candidate.

Trump has always aligned himself to the Democratic side. His recent change was only in preparation for this election. He isn't stupid, he knows his unchecked rhetoric will work with the far right rather than anyone on the left.
 
AG74683 said:
Realistically, as President, Trump will probably be pretty lame duck. The GOP won't work with him and neither will the Dems. Anything he does that is really major would need to be through executive action and those will all disappear on January 1st, 2020. If the election comes down to Trump V. Clinton, strangely enough I think Trump is the safer candidate.

Trump has always aligned himself to the Democratic side. His recent change was only in preparation for this election. He isn't stupid, he knows his unchecked rhetoric will work with the far right rather than anyone on the left.
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^ 100% truth right there....


BTW, has anyone seen is birth certificate yet. I pledge 50 cents to a charity of his choice if he is willing to send me a notarized copy!
 
Hink said:
Trump thumps the 5 new england states and Clinton wins 4 of 5.

So the question is - Does the Republican establishment allow Trump to win? I think Clinton and Trump are actually closer in policy then they let on, just Trump uses vitriolic language to get his point across. I don't see taxes changing under either. Maybe some push for stronger social programs under Clinton, but I think Trump is more progressive then he is allowed to say in the primary. He isn't going to go after gay rights or abortion clinics.

So what is different? A wall that won't ever be built? Foreign diplomacy is certainly one thing.
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I don't think the GOP establishment has a choice at this point. I don't think they'll undermine him because that could do long-term damage to the party, but I don't think they'll necessarily support him either. I think they will spend the next four years positioning themselves to have better candidates. You'll see a shift toward protectionism with Trump, but that's about it. Trump is an exceptionally selfish person--he will do what protects his interests. This is why I've said I was far more worried about a Cruz presidency than a Trump presidency. Cruz is a megalomaniac true believer that will act on ideology in a way that makes Governor Brownbeck in Kansas look downright liberal. Trump would likely have a lame duck experience though, and I think Trump does serious damage down ticket in the election.

Clinton won't result in much discernible change either. What worries me most with her is how much she is "handled;" everything she does comes off as having underlying motive. Too much polish. I don't think it is her though--I think it is her advisors. She gets my vote though in the General Election, because the things said by Trump & Cruz can't be unsaid.

One thing I think you will see: significant reforms to the primary/caucus systems in both parties as well as a restructuring of convention rules.
 
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