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NEVERENDING ♾️ The NEVERENDING Political Discussion Thread

michaelskis said:
Happy Super Tuesday!
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One of the few benefits to living in Texas is that, historically, I never had to deal with all of the political BS due to our late primary. Unfortunately, some geniuses decided to move our primary to Super Tuesday. :not:
 
The only answer to: Do you disavow the endorsement of David Duke and white supremists is:

YES! They have no support by me or my organization.

Anything else. Any excuses, equivocation or weaselly denials of ignorance marks you as with them.

Sorry, Donald. You can't hold on to the white trash demographic and not look like a racist.

Nor can you claim you didn't know anything about David Duke in 2016 when you denounced him in 1991, 2000 and even 2015.

But then for every ten sentences Donald Trump utters in the press or on a podium, three are outright lies, three are distortions and four are brags.

How is this guy winning? His success is an indictment of our people more than it is of him being a slimy, posturing dirtbag.

John Oliver really tore him a new one. Check it out on the Web.
 
otterpop said:
YES! They have no support by me or my organization.

Anything else. Any excuses, equivocation or weaselly denials of ignorance marks you as with them.

Sorry, Donald. You can't hold on to the white trash demographic and not look like a racist.

Nor can you claim you didn't know anything about David Duke in 2016 when you denounced him in 1991, 2000 and even 2015.

But then for every ten sentences Donald Trump utters in the press or on a podium, three are outright lies, three are distortions and four are brags.

How is this guy winning? His success is an indictment of our people more than it is of him being a slimy, posturing dirtbag.

John Oliver really tore him a new one. Check it out on the Web.
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I linked the John Oliver piece above in one my posts. This forum doesn't like the short youtube links though...so here it is for the lazy.



In any case, the video below looks at how Trump answers questions. It's really a pretty good video, and highlights just how cunning the guy really is.

 
So Super Tuesday is in the books.

Trump and Clinton are the big winners. Cruz has to stick around for a bit longer. Rubio has an awful day. Kasich gets second in a couple states. Carson... umm I got nothing.

Sanders is starting to slide. He made a good effort, but he is down for the count. Let the Clinton machine go already. She is going to pivot back to where she was before Bernie pressured her anyways, might as well let her do it now.

Trump is winning big. He is winning all across the country. He is winning with all demographic groups. He is the most likely republican candidate. Everyone might need to accept that.

Cruz won Texas, Oklahoma, and Alaska. Rubio won Minnesota. Other than Texas, these don't matter.

My take away:

Trump is going to win. Cruz still looks like an idiot. Rubio can't accept enough money or support from the establishment to win. Kasich is going to be the VP. Carson is delusional or stupid. Why is he still in the race?

What I can't understand is that all of the incumbent congressional primary candidates won in those states yesterday. So everyone votes for the "outsider" presidential candidate, but they love their insider congressional representative? It makes no sense. Just like Donald Trump being President.
 
Wow.

This is the most interesting Presidential election cycle of the 20th Century. (?)

And we (I) get to experience the RNC here in NE OH this June. :-|
 
My take on the whole thing...

Bernie wants to give away free crap, but people wonder how it will be paid for, and health care is not a right. If you want to make it that way, amend the constitution.
Hillary is full of bull crap, but the Clinton Political Machine is still a force and people are getting duped into voting for her. But the Machine is strong and she will be the D mominee.
Trump is a brash delusional angry guy who has absolutely no idea on any of his policies other than building a wall. I was in shock that people were actually voting for him in the primaries last night. But maybe people see him as a symbol that they don't want another typical politician, and thus, he will be the GOP nominee.
Cruz is twisted in his ideas and paints him as a strong conservative, but he flip flops on issues and he preaches the constitution for some things, but folds on others.
Rubio might be the only sane one left, but I still can't get behind him. He will win FL, but it will not be enough to do any damage to Trump.
Kasich who? My wife asked me who he was when we were watching a bit of the news last night.
Carson has a few decent ideas but reminds me of willy wonka on valium.


In short, it will be Trump V. Hillary... I will vote for Gary Johnson.
 
Hink said:
Sanders is starting to slide. He made a good effort, but he is down for the count. Let the Clinton machine go already. She is going to pivot back to where she was before Bernie pressured her anyways, might as well let her do it now.


My take away:

Trump is going to win. Cruz still looks like an idiot. Rubio can't accept enough money or support from the establishment to win. Kasich is going to be the VP. Carson is delusional or stupid. Why is he still in the race?
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Sanders will stick around till the convention at least. He's generating a fair amount of money (over 40m donated in February). His big states are yet to come. I'm fascinated with the African American community going so hard for HRC. Sanders was in the trenches during the Civil Rights movement, and was actually arrested during a protest. Clinton was campaigning for Barry freaking Goldwater during the same time. If it comes down to Trump v. Clinton, I'll probably abstain from voting for either and just vote for the locals. I'll probably also vote straight ticket Democrat for any US Rep. or Senator. Hopefully forcing a Dem. majority in both Senate and House will force Trump in to using executive actions. The GOP doesn't really care if Trump is the man, because Trump has no policies. He'll make deals with them and allow them to proceed as they are now.
 
Hink said:
What I can't understand is that all of the incumbent congressional primary candidates won in those states yesterday. So everyone votes for the "outsider" presidential candidate, but they love their insider congressional representative? It makes no sense. Just like Donald Trump being President.
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This has always been one of the biggest paradoxes in our national politics. Time after time, survey respondents give congress as a whole very low marks but when asked about their individual representative, they generally give very high marks. This has been going on for a few decades now.
 
Ridiculing Drumpf

It turns out there's social science supporting Rubio's decision to focus on going after Trump's character instead of the issues. A new Democracy Corps survey of 800 Republican base voters tested a variety of ways to go after Trump, and the most effective ones weren't those criticizing his controversial policy positions. Instead, as Stanley Greenberg and James Carville write, the most damaging attacks proved to be those "centered on [Trump's] character and leadership qualities: that he is an ego-maniac at the expense of the country, that he is disrespectful towards women, and that he cannot be trusted to keep the country safe and handle our nuclear weapons."​

source

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OemqVWi_R0k



After this appeared, I posted a comment on HuffPo requesting that Broadway, The Onion, and Mel Brooks get busy on this scene.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmYIo7bcUw
 
mendelman said:
Wow.

This is the most interesting Presidential election cycle of the 20th Century. (?)

And we (I) get to experience the RNC here in NE OH this June. :-|
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True. I anxiously look forward to whatever book comes out about how Trump's campaign was structured & researched to create this perfect storm.

Any chance we can convince Mendelman to take his Go-Pro to the convention and conduct "man on the street" interviews on behalf of Cyburbia? Maybe ask Trump supporters if they think the U.S. should invade Cyburbia?

And as much as the GOP wants to deny it, Trump is the inevitable result of the last 3+ decades of political & media tactics. They deserve Trump as a candidate. The GOP should be afraid. Trump is the result of their politicians lying to their constituents--saying whatever it takes to get elected and then pandering to their corporate overlords. People are fed up of the lies, corruption... The GOP has no one to blame but themselves... and the Democrats need to be watching this and asking if the same thing could happen to them. Though not to the same magnitude, some of those same behavioral observations can be laid at the feet of many Democratic politicians as well. Bernie Sanders put the Democratic Party on "friendly notice" that there is a problem beginning to ferment, but the Democratic Party still has time & space for a course correction. I think the GOP, barring some extreme act of bravery, is in serious trouble with very little room to maneuver.

I'm curious to see if a contested convention emerges.

I'm also particularly amazed by the evangelical/religious support for Trump. I'm not asking for them to vote democrat (religion & politics is never a good mix, IMHO), but at least act like you've read your Bible if you are going to use it as a source of government leadership selection. I'm happy that some evangelical leaders, like Max Lucado, are speaking up for decency in discourse, but I think it is too little too late.
 
mendelman said:
Wow.

This is the most interesting Presidential election cycle of the 20th Century. (?)

And we (I) get to experience the RNC here in NE OH this June. :-|
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I don't think this cycle even ranks among the most interesting of the 20th Century.... but mainly because we are in the 21st Century. ;)
 
WSU MUP Student said:
I don't think this cycle even ranks among the most interesting of the 20th Century.... but mainly because we are in the 21st Century. ;)
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Yeah...touche.

Alright, the most interesting of the 20th and 21st centuries, so far... :D

I even left the rhetorical door open because we have much more of the 21st century left to go for even great amazing lunacy. :D
 
Ahh

Regarding this BS about Bernie not being able to pay for all of his ideas:

1. We've all had free education all the way though PhD's if we wanted for the last 30 years.....do you want to know where all that free education is today? Locked up in banks all over the rest of the world in the form of $2 Trillion in corporate Hoarding:-@
2. We've ALL had the highest quality and lowest cost medical care the world has ever seen for the last 30 years........do you want to know where all that medical care is? Locked up in banks all over the rest of the world in the form of $2 Trillion in corporate Hoarding:-@
3. Insert all other Bernie programs here....we've had them all for 30 years.....do you want to know where all that other stuff is? Locked up in banks all over the rest of the world in the form of $2 Trillion in corporate Hoarding:-@

Such a dumb argument. We have paid for every single benefit Bernie wants over the last 30 years and got the opposite for our trouble.

Looking into the future....we will continue paying for all of these things without getting any benefit if we keep the current corrupt system in place.
 
The One said:
Such a dumb argument. We have paid for every single benefit Bernie wants over the last 30 years and got the opposite for our trouble.

Looking into the future....we will continue paying for all of these things without getting any benefit if we keep the current corrupt system in place.
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But is it a dumb argument? If the idea is that we get "free" things, then you have to explain how you would pay for them. Bernie's tax plan is pretty rough on about anyone above $90k per year. Someone is paying for that "free" stuff.

Here is his site to explain how he will pay - https://berniesanders.com/issues/how-bernie-pays-for-his-proposals/
Here is the right leaning Tax Foundation's view - http://taxfoundation.org/article/details-and-analysis-senator-bernie-sanders-s-tax-plan

I am not certain his policies are what our country needs. Particularly because they are not likely to be funded without lots of changes are that unlikely to occur in the near or distant future.
 
The One said:
Regarding this BS about Bernie not being able to pay for all of his ideas:

1. We've all had free education all the way though PhD's if we wanted for the last 30 years.....do you want to know where all that free education is today? Locked up in banks all over the rest of the world in the form of $2 Trillion in corporate Hoarding:-@
2. We've ALL had the highest quality and lowest cost medical care the world has ever seen for the last 30 years........do you want to know where all that medical care is? Locked up in banks all over the rest of the world in the form of $2 Trillion in corporate Hoarding:-@
3. Insert all other Bernie programs here....we've had them all for 30 years.....do you want to know where all that other stuff is? Locked up in banks all over the rest of the world in the form of $2 Trillion in corporate Hoarding:-@

Such a dumb argument. We have paid for every single benefit Bernie wants over the last 30 years and got the opposite for our trouble.

Looking into the future....we will continue paying for all of these things without getting any benefit if we keep the current corrupt system in place.
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Nice use of angry face... still does not mean that you are correct in your assumptions.

So they are locked up in corporate banks all over the world. You know where the money isn't... in the coffers of the Federal Government. What happens if we raise the tax rates for all these corporations? It is a regular occasion that we hear about some corporation combining with another company overseas to avoid taxes.

What is a dumb idea is saying that all this stuff will be free when it won't be free. Someone is going to need to pay of all that stuff and in the end it will be the middle class taxpayers. He might as well as promise everyone a pony while he is at it.

More so, universities and hospitals are more often than not run as corporations themselves and very little of the funding for these universities actually goes into improving the education of the students. Hospitals have crazy high overhead and are run very poorly in terms of being cost effective. My wife talks about the insane amount of waste that occurs because of a lack of real leadership.

In many ways I think that it would be wonderful if we could do everything that Bernie wants to do. But there are so many broken components that his ideas don't cover. The Tax system is insane, the institution culture, and the efficiency of the federal government to run anything efficiently in terms of money leaves be to believe that Bernie is nothing more than a delusional old man for thinking anything like this is actually possible.
 
Carson is finally out. It only took him 3 extra months to figure out politics aren't meant for him.

4 left on the R side
2 left on the D side.

One of those people will be our next president folks..... yikes.
 
To be clear, I'm not pro-Bernie because of all this "free" stuff. I do not believe the rich should be taxed more simply because they make more. We should not punish success to fund programs for others. I also do not believe in free public college. College costs should be reigned in and should be made affordable rather than saddling students with 30-40k worth of debt. Tuition costs have skyrocketed since the early 20th century, while average pay has remained at or below those same rates (adjusted for inflation). College tuition pays for sky high salaries for the administrators, sports programs, and facilities that universities do not even need. Health care in this country is a disaster, but hardly because of the ACA. The ACA as was envisioned by Obama would have worked much better, but partisan politics destroyed it. Health care cannot be fixed without some severe change in congressional policy. Illegal immigrants shouldn't be treated as a disease, and immigration policies need to provide incentives for legal immigrants rather than costing a single immigrant upwards of $6,000 dollars and saddling the taxpayers with a 5.7 million dollar budget for Immigration and Customs Enforcement. This country has a whole hell of a lot of problems, and none will be solved with this Dem/GOP ration of bullshit we are forced to endure every single year.

I understand that realistically, very few, if any, of Bernie's ideas are implemented. But Sanders is the best candidate, period. He's the best solution in a group that is comprised of a bigoted racist business man with no political experience besides signing a campaign donation, a robotic Cuban GOP puppet, a Canadian televangelist disguised as a Texas Senator, and a war mongering woman who has proven that she has complete disregard for this nations security policies.

Bernie Sanders is the best of a bad situation. He's honest, works his tail off for his constituents, and has proven time and time again that he is for racial and sexual equality. I'm not voting Sanders because of his polices, I'm voting for the man he is.
 
AG74683 said:
Bernie Sanders is the best of a bad situation. He's honest, works his tail off for his constituents, and has proven time and time again that he is for racial and sexual equality. I'm not voting Sanders because of his polices, I'm voting for the man he is.
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I very much agree with this statement, and it is consistent with what many that are voting for him feel. I'm not voting for him necessarily because of policy positions, but more so because he is the only one of the group that I can say unequivocally is not in special interest pockets and is a good human. I also think serving as a local government mayor should almost be a prerequisite to better recall what serving the public interest really means at the ground level.

I'm not a fan of a free education, but I would like to see a 2-year free program for community/junior college, technical school or other post-secondary skill training. I would like to see a domestic service requirement included in exchange (6-12 months maybe?). I see that as a possible means to re-emphasize civic-mindedness and place a time value on the "free" education. That service provision could easily be integrated into curriculum. For example, someone might want to learn how to fix cars. Well, the curriculum could include a final practicum in which they intern/work in a city's public works department. This is an oversimplified explanation, but you get the idea.

Partisanship screwed-up ACA. There needs to be revolutionary reform to healthcare to address escalating costs, limited access, pharma profiteering, etc. I think single-payer is the ultimate simple answer, but is not realistic at this time. I'll settle for incremental reform to ACA in the meantime. Sanders knows this as well--he isn't dumb. He will seek out victories where he can find them. I don't think Clinton is really motivated.

Immigration is best resolved by creating a very simple path to citizenship, particularly for those that have already been paying taxes, merely overstayed visas, etc. This whole sending them to Juarez for a year to sort through the bullshit is unacceptable. People really don't understand the role immigrants play in our economy. I feel like living in a border state, working on border issues up-close and watching what my friend that overstayed a visa went through to obtain citizenship gives me a better understanding than most. Clinton talks a game but I think will come up short on actions, but Sanders might have the brains to actually do something about it.

Decriminalization & potentially legalization of marijuana in order to achieve prison reform. Drug use offenses are a stupid reason to put someone in jail. Sanders appears to be the only one that gets that.

Defense spending reform. Defense spending is over 53% of discretionary spending. We're building airplanes no one wants, and failing to take care of shell-shocked veterans when they return. We are too frivolous with soldier lives. Sanders appears to be the only one that gets that.
 
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Yup

Suburb Repairman said:
Defense spending reform. Defense spending is over 53% of discretionary spending. We're building airplanes no one wants, and failing to take care of shell-shocked veterans when they return. We are too frivolous with soldier lives. Sanders appears to be the only one that gets that.
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Yes, but according to the Canadian televangelist and Cuban American GOP puppet, our military is crumbling and in critical shape:r::r:...one more for Mskis:r: :D;)

Idea:
$1 Trillion to maintain our nuclear triad over the next 30 years......I say cut it in half and maintain our ability to melt the entire planet within hours (many times over). Use the $500 Billion to build infrastructure.
 
The One said:
Yes, but according to the Canadian televangelist and Cuban American GOP puppet, our military is crumbling and in critical shape:r::r:...one more for Mskis:r: :D;)

Idea:
$1 Trillion to maintain our nuclear triad over the next 30 years......I say cut it in half and maintain our ability to melt the entire planet within hours (many times over). Use the $500 Billion to build infrastructure.
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We need to do more regarding our military, and by more I mean way less. We need to have a more defensive military and be part of coalition actions in other parts of the world. We don't need all these bases all over the planet and we don't need the infrastructure that we have in place today. We can still maintain a stong navy as our weapons systems allow us to access almost anywhere on the planet with a mobile base.

I think that we can cut our military spending by 60% if we stop being the worlds policeman. We have enough issues at home to deal with and it seems that anytime we get involved somewhere we cause new issues. We caused both Saddam and Osama to rise up in power. See how well that worked for us? I still think we still need to help those in need, but only as part of a comprehensive global coalition.

BTW, I officially do not support any of the GOP or Democrat candidates. They all suck.
 
A 50% to 60% cut is likely doable without damaging defensive ability. I'll take that one step further... The income tax rate for all brackets is increased by 1% - 2% automatically (progressively applied) for any authorized foreign engagement, regardless of whether there is a formal war declaration. And it could not be achieved by cutting elsewhere--this needs to be a hard price tag. Turn these discussions about sending soldiers overseas into a taxation topic and then see if you & the public still think it is important. I've got too many dead or screwed-up friends as a result of Dubya. We have an early 20th Century military mindset/approach in a 21st Century world. Our infrastructure does not align with modern threats and, due to technological advances, is often duplicating capability. It is not nimble. And the defense industry wields far too much influence.
 
Suburb Repairman said:
I'm not a fan of a free education, but I would like to see a 2-year free program for community/junior college, technical school or other post-secondary skill training. I would like to see a domestic service requirement included in exchange (6-12 months maybe?). . .
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There is already a free program in a sense of this in many community college systems. Back to Work programs for retraining or training for a new production line for manufacturers in the community or technical colleges are part of an incentive package floated by almost all EDCs. This incentive pays for the free education of a prospective or current employee.

Now I understand this is different than the 17 year old going to CC to get the prerequisite out of the way for less $$$ or the person going specifically for a CNA certificate (for example).
 
Suburb Repairman said:
A 50% to 60% cut is likely doable without damaging defensive ability. I'll take that one step further... The income tax rate for all brackets is increased by 1% - 2% automatically (progressively applied) for any authorized foreign engagement, regardless of whether there is a formal war declaration. And it could not be achieved by cutting elsewhere--this needs to be a hard price tag. Turn these discussions about sending soldiers overseas into a taxation topic and then see if you & the public still think it is important. I've got too many dead or screwed-up friends as a result of Dubya. We have an early 20th Century military mindset/approach in a 21st Century world. Our infrastructure does not align with modern threats and, due to technological advances, is often duplicating capability. It is not nimble. And the defense industry wields far too much influence.
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Sure... but only if there is a total tax reform that happens. Specifically, a modified progressive tax at a lower percentage but with ZERO deductions and loopholes on all income until the age of 70. The tax brackets would be modified based on a revised regional based platform that takes cost of living and median family income into consideration. When it comes time for tax season, people will see they make x they pay y. But it would start at 3% once you make 80% of the median income for that particular region and would increase from there. Those currently in most parts of the US that are in the 28% percent bracket would pay about the same as they do now (after typical deductions), but those in the upper brackets would end up paying more. Investment income would still be income.
 
Almost there......

michaelskis said:
Sure... but only if there is a total tax reform that happens. Specifically, a modified progressive tax at a lower percentage but with ZERO deductions and loopholes on all income until the age of 70. The tax brackets would be modified based on a revised regional based platform that takes cost of living and median family income into consideration. When it comes time for tax season, people will see they make x they pay y. But it would start at 3% once you make 80% of the median income for that particular region and would increase from there. Those currently in most parts of the US that are in the 28% percent bracket would pay about the same as they do now (after typical deductions), but those in the upper brackets would end up paying more. Investment income would still be income.
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This and adding a mandatory base pay pegged to inflation, coupled with a maximum number of part time workers allowed by progressive size of business. Add equal pay for women and bingo you might convince people in the bottom 20% to start paying income taxes because now they are getting a fair share of the pie. You better add some incentives for the middle class losing their mortgage interest deduction and child deductions.

I like Mskis continuing use of the word progressive:l:

:D
 
The One said:
This and adding a mandatory base pay pegged to inflation, coupled with a maximum number of part time workers allowed by progressive size of business. Add equal pay for women and bingo you might convince people in the bottom 20% to start paying income taxes because now they are getting a fair share of the pie. You better add some incentives for the middle class losing their mortgage interest deduction and child deductions.

I like Mskis continuing use of the word progressive:l:

:D
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Yes, they would lose their deductions, but instead of paying 25% you would pay somehting like 12.5%, even if you rent a home. However for people making $250,000 you pay 30% with zero deductuons.

I am all for equal pay for equal work, regardless of sex, race, religion, or NHL preference.




I was also thinking, the GOP and the Democrats agree on one major issue... They all agree that President Trump is a horrible idea.
 
Wow, the Fox News Debate is crazy. For the life of me, I still can't believe people are voting for Tump. I am also disappointed in how some of the crowd is acting in Detroit. Most of them are behaving, but some are not.
 
Seems like Trump has punched the self destruct button.

Kaisch has been very impressive tonight. He's the only person besides Sanders I could see myself voting for.
 
AG74683 said:
Seems like Trump has punched the self destruct button.

Kaisch has been very impressive tonight. He's the only person besides Sanders I could see myself voting for.
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I agree about your view on Kaisch and Trump.

The GOP is screwed when the topics referenced include the following:
Donald's Junk,
Donald's Flexability and possibly doing yoga
Ted telling Donald to count to 10

If the candidates were smart, two of the 3 who are not Donald would state that they are suspending their campaign and will be backing the one non-trump candidate and encourage their supporters to do the same. Trump is playing off a fractured base. He realizes that you don't need 50%, you need more than the other guys.
 
A quick one than im out.....

I should probably refrain from posting my very very to the left views here in the interest of career preservation........

But ill say this: Hold on Bernie!

Peace.
 
Wow.... just wow. So as someone who watches every debate (R and D) and has done so for at least the last 12 years, this is amazing. I can't remember a dirtier debate. It was ugly. Mud slinging and yelling. I feel like the Fox News Debates are angrier because they can be mean without the "all journalists are against us" argument working.

So onto my thoughts:

- Donald Trump looked awful. He was defending jabs and punches all night. His answers we non-existant, and instead of policy he just went to his tried and true - "small Marco" and "Liar Cruz". Really childish.
- Rubio continued his full out attack on Trump. He hit a lot of good body blows. His best being that Trump should bring all the manufacturing for his clothing line back to the states. Although he caused Trump to have to defend his junk, so that gets Rubio points in my book.
- Cruz was Cruz. Annoying and aggressive he went after Trump. Didn't really hit anything that was new or interesting, but he was trying to be an attack dog.
- Kasich was very good. I don't really like the guy, but I tell you what, he looks like a saint after last night. Mitt Romney should be endorsing him soon.

So let's see if Trump gets knocked down from this. Michigan is next, and we will see if Trump gets any competition. Rubio was on NPR this morning talking about a brokered convention....... this could get interesting. Err.... more interesting.
 
Hink said:
So let's see if Trump gets knocked down from this. Michigan is next, and we will see if Trump gets any competition. Rubio was on NPR this morning talking about a brokered convention....... this could get interesting. Err.... more interesting.
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This is weird. I'm not used to being in a state of any political consequence where primaries are concerned. I mean usually after super Tuesday the issue is settled once and for all and the votes that follow are simply conducted as a matter of form. We may actually make a difference this year.
 
The Terminator said:
I should probably refrain from posting my very very to the left views here in the interest of career preservation........

But ill say this: Hold on Bernie!

Peace.
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I don't think that matters much now. This election is one of the first that's not so much about policy, but about the person themselves. Doesn't matter who gets elected, none of these great visions the candidates are rattling off will ever happen. I'm pro-Bernie because he's the only person up there that I wouldn't feel guilty about voting for.

Hink said:
Wow.... just wow. So as someone who watches every debate (R and D) and has done so for at least the last 12 years, this is amazing. I can't remember a dirtier debate. It was ugly. Mud slinging and yelling. I feel like the Fox News Debates are angrier because they can be mean without the "all journalists are against us" argument working.

- Kasich was very good. I don't really like the guy, but I tell you what, he looks like a saint after last night. Mitt Romney should be endorsing him soon.

So let's see if Trump gets knocked down from this. Michigan is next, and we will see if Trump gets any competition. Rubio was on NPR this morning talking about a brokered convention....... this could get interesting. Err.... more interesting.
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Kasich was fantastic last night. I'm glad that this was a Fox debate because the viewership will be way up, and hopefully it gets him some more votes. I've said it many times before, but if the GOP truly wants to win this election, Kasich is the guy. He's the most likely to pull in voters from the other side, especially if Clinton gets the nomination. Like I said, I'm pro-Bernie and have always leaned towards the Dems, but I will absolutely not vote for Hillary Clinton, and I feel I am definitely not alone there. The only two candidates I could vote for, and feel like I did the right thing for this country, would be Sanders and Kasich. I'd rather not have Romney endorse Kasich though. He's got the ire of the Trump crowd right now, and an endorsement could actually hurt Kasich further.

Problem is, I don't see Trump losing steam. The people voting for him are die hard, and will come up with every excuse in the book to keep him out front.
 
Talking to some guys around here. You know, the ones in overalls. They'll vote for Trump because they'll never vote for Hillary. Trump isn't their favorite, but they would rather see any R win than a D at all costs.
 
michaelskis said:
Wow, the Fox News Debate is crazy. For the life of me, I still can't believe people are voting for Tump. I am also disappointed in how some of the crowd is acting in Detroit. Most of them are behaving, but some are not.
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A good friend was at the debate and he also went to the Las Vegas one back in December and the one in Iowa in January. He says the crowds were largely the same at those. I think the sounds from the crowd in Detroit really carried because of the venue. Most (all?) of the previous debates have been held in more modern arenas or auditoriums that are better at deadening audience noise. This one was at the Fox Theatre which was built as a movie theatre 80+ years ago and doesn't have the same modern acoustics that the other venues have. The seats for this debate go right up to about 3' feet from the stage and any sound made in the crowd really carries.

Having been to the Fox many times in the past for concerts, plays, Sesame Street Live, etc... I'll say that it is absolutely gorgeous and every seat has a great view, but the sound can really suck, especially if the folks in the crowd are loud. My theory is that Fox picked the venue primarily because they liked something about the name.
 
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ag74683 said:
I'm pro-Bernie and have always leaned towards the Dems, but I will absolutely not vote for Hillary Clinton,
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ag74683, I hope you reconsider. Read what dvd posted because it is absolutely true.
dvdneal said:
Talking to some guys around here. You know, the ones in overalls. They'll vote for Trump because they'll never vote for Hillary. Trump isn't their favorite, but they would rather see any R win than a D at all costs.
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I'm sorry if your candidate does not get the nod, but please understand that you voting for no one is equal to a vote for Trump. You may not like it, but the lesser of two evils is sometimes the choices we are faced with. Also keep in mind the party that wins this next Pres election will very likely be the one that nominates the a Supreme Court justice for the next 20-30 years. A lot more at stake than a Hillary vs the Donald personality spat.
 
Maister said:
Hink I hope you reconsider. Read what dvd posted because it is absolutely true.

I'm sorry if your candidate does not get the nod, but please understand that you voting for no one is equal to a vote for Trump. You may not like it, but the lesser of two evils is sometimes the choices we are faced with. Also keep in mind the party that wins this next Pres election will very likely be the one that nominates the a Supreme Court justice for the next 20-30 years. A lot more at stake than a Hillary vs the Donald personality spat.
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Hey now, you are taking AG's words and putting them in my mouth. Who do you think you are... Trump? ;)

Personally, I haven't decided who to vote for yet. I am going to vote though. I don't care if I hate both, I will pick one. I am a voter and am proud to have that right. I will vote no matter who either of the candidates are.

True original quote:

AG74683 said:
I don't think that matters much now. This election is one of the first that's not so much about policy, but about the person themselves. Doesn't matter who gets elected, none of these great visions the candidates are rattling off will ever happen. I'm pro-Bernie because he's the only person up there that I wouldn't feel guilty about voting for.
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I'd like to thank Donald Trump

I think Republicans - I mean the real ones - owe a debt of bitter gratitude to Donald J. Trump: he's exposed in an irrefutable way just how negative some of the base really is, and he's done it in a way that other republicans cannot ignore any longer. It's time for the party of Lincoln to become the party of Lincoln again - even if that means they lose elections for the next generation because they've lost that hopelessly negative base. You know, let them have their own party, and let them have their own candidates. I no longer care if it's political suicide for the next 20 years, I just want to be able to say what I think - what I truly think - as a Republican. I want my candidates to be the thoughtful, articulate and nobler among us, and I don't want that to mean that I don't have a party. I'd like all people's basic rights to be represented, and shockingly I include women, homosexuals and immigrants when I say "all people". I'd like us to have an honest conversation about our health care system. I don't either Barack Obama or George W. Bush were even close to our worst presidents. I'd also like us to be more diplomatic and less militaristic in our foreign policy, and a little less lazy, selfish and pandering in our trade policies. I don't believe I'm in the minority within the party I've always identified with. I just don't. I think for a full generation, however, our nominees and politicians have needed to pretend that they think things they don't just to get into office because we lived under a myth that we were somehow more united and less fractured than Democrats.

Like Hink, I will vote when it's time, but it will not be easy or pleasant for me. As it stands, in all likelihood, I will be voting for a democratic party candidate. And you know what? Maybe it's high time I did, because let's face it: as of 2016 there's no such thing as a Republican anymore.
 
This morning I was sitting at my table, drinking a cup of coffee, going over the constitution and some of the federalist papers when something hit me like a ton of bricks. In the scope of things, it is not going to matter all that much who gets elected president. The federal government is a corruption machine far more powerful than Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton. Special interest groups will continue to get their way. No wall will be built along the mexican border, and while the President will nominate someone for SCOTUS, the Senate is the one who confirms them. There will be no tax reform that will benefit us, and Obamacare won't get repealed. The rich will get richer, the poor will get poorer and it will be harder and harder on the middle class.

The autopilot for the federal system is locked down and it will take substantial change in all three branches of government to change directions now because the momentum of status quo is so great, that to change it now would fracture the United States in a way that would make the Civil war look like a thumb wrestling match.
 
michaelskis said:
This morning I was sitting at my table, drinking a cup of coffee, going over the constitution and some of the federalist papers when something hit me like a ton of bricks. .
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This has to be one of the Top 10 first lines of a post in the long history of Cyburbia.
 
MD Planner said:
This has to be one of the Top 10 first lines of a post in the long history of Cyburbia.
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He's reading all that and I'm doing good to get out of bed, make breakfast and get ready for work and have devotions without injuring myself. I am not a morning person and coherent thoughts don't start until the caffeine hits my system.
 
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