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NEVERENDING ♾️ The NEVERENDING Political Discussion Thread

Whoops.....

michaelskis said:
I was not able to read the article since I don't have a subscription, but based on your statement, I think we as a society need to rethink healthcare with health prevention, starting with the types of food that the federal government subsidizes. Less corn and soy, more tomatoes and carrots.
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Sorry about that.....it was a graph showing stagnate wage increases compared to triple digit health care premium increases since the 1990's.
On a side note....having a vegetarian teen in my house has made a quantified improvement in the health (lab verified) of the rest of my family. I highly suggest you all get one;)
 
michaelskis said:
I almost forgot the Bengazi Scandal and the Fast and Furious Gun Scandal. Heck, there are so many, people are making brackets to determine what was the worse one. .
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If you point it out & create a bracket for this POTUS, then do the same to each. I think you will be surprised and reminded about many, many more from previous administrations, not just this one nor the one immediately prior.

ColoGI said:
He wrote Benghazi!

Drink! (but after you are done laughing someone actually brought this up in public)
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Hink said:
I had almost forgotten about Bengazi. Thank you for reminding me. I will go back to my life now, worrying about real problems and scandals. *Puts Tin Foil Hat back on* :not:
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michaelskis said:
The problems were real for the 4 Americans that were killed. Those problems are still real for their families.
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You're right that it is real for the 4 people who died and their families. BUT Benghazi (oops I said it again, drink) being a "scandal" just because some loud mouths don't like the way it was handled and are looking for anything to prop up as heinous and classify it as one does not make it so.

I guess why you get so much backlash mskis is that it appears you take the FauxNews talking point-de-jour and regurgitate it even though you have stated you're not a D or R.

Damn I knew I shouldn't have looked in this Thread again. I'll leave now.
 
Planit said:
If you point it out & create a bracket for this POTUS, then do the same to each. I think you will be surprised and reminded about many, many more from previous administrations, not just this one nor the one immediately prior.

You're right that it is real for the 4 people who died and their families. BUT Benghazi (oops I said it again, drink) being a "scandal" just because some loud mouths don't like the way it was handled and are looking for anything to prop up as heinous and classify it as one does not make it so.

I guess why you get so much backlash mskis is that it appears you take the FauxNews talking point-de-jour and regurgitate it even though you have stated you're not a D or R.

Damn I knew I shouldn't have looked in this Thread again. I'll leave now.
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I am sure there are brackets for prior presidents. The one for the current president is printed out on a treasurers wall. This is how I know about it.

In terms of Benghazi (and I don't play drinking games), looks like CNN is also lies. They seem to think that 4 people died, there is evidence that the WH called it a terror attack before they called it a protest, then changed back to terror attack, and that there is evidence that there was a request for help as soon as the violence started... but help was never sent. Oh, that that it was preventable.

So do I get bonus points for citing CNN or is that a double standard that you don't want to discuss?

Part of my frustration with the media is there isn't a source that tells the whole story. We have all this information at our fingertips but it paints an inaccurate picture. It is even more frustrating that people are willing to take it at face value without really seeking to understand more about it.

Like this ISIS issue. This was caused by Bush going to war in Iraq. I think that Obama has handled it far better. But the media draws a line in the sand saying this and that without asking why.
 
michaelskis said:
I am sure there are brackets for prior presidents. The one for the current president is printed out on a treasurers wall. This is how I know about it.

In terms of Benghazi (and I don't play drinking games), looks like CNN is also lies. They seem to think that 4 people died, there is evidence that the WH called it a terror attack before they called it a protest, then changed back to terror attack, and that there is evidence that there was a request for help as soon as the violence started... but help was never sent. Oh, that that it was preventable.

So do I get bonus points for citing CNN or is that a double standard that you don't want to discuss?
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Iraq was preventable. How about the 4,000+ KIA and 30,000+ wounded and their families?
 
Nah.

Your frustration is that there isn't a media source telling you the story the way you want to hear it. Although given how highly divided and fragmented media sources are these days it's surprising you haven't found your favorite source.

I don't think there's ever been a time when we (the dumb public) have access to so much information as today. All I have to do is to read a variety of sources across the political spectrum and it's enough to allow me to paint a pretty accurate picture. Playing the biases against each other is useful in determining what the likely truth is.

michaelskis said:
Part of my frustration with the media is there isn't a source that tells the whole story. We have all this information at our fingertips but it paints an inaccurate picture. It is even more frustrating that people are willing to take it at face value without really seeking to understand more about it.

Like this ISIS issue. This was caused by Bush going to war in Iraq. I think that Obama has handled it far better. But the media draws a line in the sand saying this and that without asking why.
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PennPlanner said:
...

Your frustration is that there isn't a media source telling you the story the way you want to hear it. ....
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Bingo! Now you know why Fox News is successful. It tells the stories of the world how a certain ilk want to hear it. MSNBC does that too.

There is journalism that doesn't do this, but it seems people like to "paint an inaccurate picture" of all journalism because it doesn't say what they want it to say.
 
The One said:
A nice graph from Darth Vader's newspaper:

<:scissors:WSJ-broken link:scissors:>

This is partly where wage increases have gone for the last 15 years......the bloated poorly performing health care regional monopolies:-{
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michaelskis said:
I was not able to read the article since I don't have a subscription... . . .
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michaelskis
You can read the article in full at this Google link:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...rYHoAg&usg=AFQjCNEwdZ1zqZrV8fBJP9KqTWLoSifLIA
MK-CP207_KAISER_G_20140909183010.jpg
 
Hink said:
Bingo! Now you know why Fox News is successful. It tells the stories of the world how a certain ilk want to hear it. MSNBC does that too.

There is journalism that doesn't do this, but it seems people like to "paint an inaccurate picture" of all journalism because it doesn't say what they want it to say.
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There is a subdiscipline that studies media persuasion and how the stories are constructed to convey a feeling in order to get you to nod your head so they can tell you the thing they want to tell you. Climate change denial, anti-vaxxer literature, creationism agitprop, Koch profit expansion, pro-fracking ads, anti-wind power, big pharma, anti-organic...the list goes on. There are even PR firms that pay people to go into comment threads to spam the discussion in order to make certain information harder to get, and entire websites constructed to disseminate disinformation. Big business.
 
Hink said:
Bingo! Now you know why Fox News is successful. It tells the stories of the world how a certain ilk want to hear it. MSNBC does that too.

There is journalism that doesn't do this, but it seems people like to "paint an inaccurate picture" of all journalism because it doesn't say what they want it to say.
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Journalism is dead. News today is just another from of entertainment playing to one group or another and none of them seem to be willing to do the work it actually takes to tell the whole story and the whole truth. More so, they refuse to make the connections necessary to tell the whole story because it makes both sides look bad.


I have heard it said that we have access to more information than ever before, but we as a society are more ignorant than ever before.
 
Yes......

michaelskis said:
Journalism is dead. News today is just another from of entertainment playing to one group or another and none of them seem to be willing to do the work it actually takes to tell the whole story and the whole truth. More so, they refuse to make the connections necessary to tell the whole story because it makes both sides look bad.


I have heard it said that we have access to more information than ever before, but we as a society are more ignorant than ever before.
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HUH?? I agree 100% with michaelskis........uh oh.......I think Yellowstone is ready to blow! :lmao:
 
michaelskis said:
I have heard it said that we have access to more information than ever before, but we as a society are more ignorant than ever before.
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Some years ago I went to the Experience Music Project in Seattle where they had a documentary about hip hop playing. I remember Chuck D talking about the democratic nature of early rap and hip hop. “Suddenly you had all of these young people talking about daily life in their communities – New York, LA, Dallas, Chicago, etc.” or something like that.

But one thing he said that really struck me was his observation that “just because more people had access to making their voice heard didn’t mean they had worthwhile things to say.” Word.

This seemed like an amazing foreshadowing of the digital revolution where everyone and their dog (literally) has a blog or Tumblr account, youtube channel, etc. But it doesn’t mean everyone has something worthwhile to say. The challenge now is that it is up to each individual to try and dissect what is real verifiable information, what is misinformation, and what is just straight up bullsh!t. Its exhausting and confusing and, in the words of Samuel Clemens “A lie gets halfway around the world before Truth can gets its boots on.” It’s a brave new world and I am so not ready for it. But its here to stay so I guess I need to either move to our mountain property permanently or get with the program.
 
michaelskis said:
Journalism is dead. News today is just another from of entertainment playing to one group or another and none of them seem to be willing to do the work it actually takes to tell the whole story and the whole truth.
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*cough DailyCaller cough* reader

Corporate news is mostly dead. Broadcast TV news is almost there, but there is some good long-form journalism going on at Vice, for instance. There is some excellent reporting going on over the Interwebs with journalists canned from a corporate job or downsized from a newspaper that went under. Republic Report single-handedly made people wake up to the for-profit college scams going on - now John Oliver brought it up so evvvvveryone knows. The old Washington Monthly broke important stories, including the Astroturf grift arising out of the wake of the Andura Smetacek incident with Monsanto. Talking Points Memo brought the voter-fraud scam run by Dixie Repubs to light. Pacific Standard does a good job at medium-form reportage and analysis. Ars Technica for tech and science. There are more.

My RSS feed is majority small, independent journalism sites that have come to life in this corporate media era.

Speaking of not dead, Oliver might be bringing a new form of information delivery to people.
 
Shellac And Vinyl VelocitY said:
You're welcome, but... michaelskis has not responded to it:
http://www.cyburbia.org/forums/showthread.php?t=40183&page=169&p=731072&viewfull=1#post731072
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You are correct, I was mostly out of commission yesterday being sick in bed. I find those numbers surprising. For example, our per visit copay increased by 75% and our prescription copay increased 50%. Our ER and walk in visits also increased 50%. Our annual premium increased 8%. The hospital that my wife works at has seen drastic cuts and layoffs, and more doctors have retired in the past 2 years than in the 10 years before that.

It also has workers earnings. I would like to see that broken up between different socioeconomic groups. Lets face it, over the past 30+ years, the rich have been getting richer and the poor have been getting poorer. But the scary thing is the buying power of the middle class has been progressively diminishing at an alarming rate pushing more and more people into the poverty range.

I have said it many times before and I will say it again. I much rather see better preventative care than reactive care, starting with the foods that we eat. The feds need to stop funding the Corn and Soy companies while increasing the percentage of money to vegetable farmers.

I think as Planners, we are actually doing more to help in the ways that we design cities by promoting alternative transportation options, encouraging mixed use developments where appropriate, increasing the tree canopy, and realizing that farmland preservation is a good thing, and that back yard gardens are a great thing.
 
Yup

{rant} Why wouldn't doctors be retiring in droves? They've made EVEN more of a killing than they did pre 1980 economics/health care rise!! :-{ The whole medical industry has screwed [STRIKEOUT]every[/STRIKEOUT] 99% of Americans.....HARD for the last 20 years now...All this while our level of service and quality has taken a nose dive....and why? Just because they can. The very same reason corporate America has given themselves double digit pay increases while abandoning the workers to stagnation. Don't expect me to shed ONE TEAR over any "hardships" they encounter. {rant}
 
The One said:
{rant} Why wouldn't doctors be retiring in droves? They've made EVEN more of a killing than they did pre 1980 economics/health care rise!! :-{ The whole medical industry has screwed [STRIKEOUT]every[/STRIKEOUT] 99% of Americans.....HARD for the last 20 years now...All this while our level of service and quality has taken a nose dive....and why? Just because they can. The very same reason corporate America has given themselves double digit pay increases while abandoning the workers to stagnation. Don't expect me to shed ONE TEAR over any "hardships" they encounter. {rant}
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What you said has happened in some cases... but not all. One nurse that my wife became friends with worked for 8 months before she was laid off. She just finished nursing school with around $50,000 in student loans. Oh, and she made a heck of a lot less than you or I make.

As for doctors making a fortune, some do and there is no question about that. But I also have seen the other side of the coin too. They go to school for 8 to 10 years and study almost all of the time (I dated a 3rd year med student for a while... it didn't work out because we would go 2 to 3 weeks without seeing each other even though we lived in the same city), take on stupid amounts of student loans, and then have costs like malpractice insurance to deal with after they get out of medical school.

Not to mention that both nurses and doctors work 12 to 14 hour days 3 to 5 days a week, on call overnights, weekends, and holidays. Oh, not to mention they need to be smart enough to save your life without violating one of 10,000 lawyer mandated laws limiting what they can do or say.

If you want to blame the insurance companies or Hospital CEOs, I am right there with you saying it is a racket, but in the majority of the situations the doctors and nurses earn their money.


Therefore sir, your rant is rejected. Life is not fair, put on your big boy pants and deal with it.
 
The One said:
{rant} Why wouldn't doctors be retiring in droves? They've made EVEN more of a killing than they did pre 1980 economics/health care rise!! :-{ The whole medical industry has screwed [STRIKEOUT]every[/STRIKEOUT] 99% of Americans.....HARD for the last 20 years now...All this while our level of service and quality has taken a nose dive....and why? Just because they can. The very same reason corporate America has given themselves double digit pay increases while abandoning the workers to stagnation. Don't expect me to shed ONE TEAR over any "hardships" they encounter. {rant}
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{Rant} Doctor's are retiring because they are stuck in the middle of an unsustainable model. Hospital's push profits, patients think they are owed the world and can now sue for virtually anything, and actually good medicine is almost impossible to provide. The general public's concept of reality when it comes to the medical world is jaded and mostly incorrect. If you want to blame the United State's medical problems on doctors go ahead, but it shows you do not understand the system. Anyone who actually understands the system knows the doctors are not to blame. They are mostly good people, who work hard, and get shit on a lot - by the hospitals, the insurance companies, lawyers, patients, and the news media. And yet people want them to perform miracles. Yea I think it is slightly condescending to not want to pay doctors to save your life until you need your life saved, then you want them paid and well trained, and loving their job.... {/rant}
 
Hink said:
{Rant} Doctor's are retiring because they are stuck in the middle of an unsustainable model. Hospital's push profits, patients think they are owed the world and can now sue for virtually anything, and actually good medicine is almost impossible to provide. The general public's concept of reality when it comes to the medical world is jaded and mostly incorrect. If you want to blame the United State's medical problems on doctors go ahead, but it shows you do not understand the system. Anyone who actually understands the system knows the doctors are not to blame. They are mostly good people, who work hard, and get shit on a lot - by the hospitals, the insurance companies, lawyers, patients, and the news media. And yet people want them to perform miracles. Yea I think it is slightly condescending to not want to pay doctors to save your life until you need your life saved, then you want them paid and well trained, and loving their job.... {/rant}
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:-c


WTH!


I agree with EVERYTHING you just said. Every last freaking word. All of them. From start to finish.



Where am I? The twilight zone? This is the 2nd time in 2 weeks that this has happened with someone.
 
Yeah....

I don't blame doctors and nurses, it just irks me when they pretend to be detached from a system they encouraged.

Too much blame to go around......
 
michaelskis said:
:-c


WTH!


I agree with EVERYTHING you just said. Every last freaking word. All of them. From start to finish.



Where am I? The twilight zone? This is the 2nd time in 2 weeks that this has happened with someone.
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I feel your & Hink's pain on this. My wife works in health information management, which essentially bridges the medical practice folks (doctors, nurses, etc.), patients, medical reporting and medical payment. I'm firmly convinced that her profession could fix the entire medical industry in about a week if given enough wine. :wine::science:
 
The One said:
I don't blame doctors and nurses, it just irks me when they pretend to be detached from a system they encouraged.

Too much blame to go around......
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I can't speak for all doctors or nurses, but I can tell you that my wife and many of her co-workers hate the system and have for quite some time. In my wife's eyes and from the comments I hear from the doctors she works with, Obamacare just took a very bad system and made it worse. Yes, there are a few more people who are insured, but that is dwarfed by the problems that they have to deal with.
 
The One said:
I don't blame doctors and nurses, it just irks me when they pretend to be detached from a system they encouraged.

Too much blame to go around......
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I can tell you that the worst lobby in Washington is the physicians lobby. They are so stupid when it comes to politics that they get a bad name because they don't fight for much of anything.
 
Another separation of Church and State discussion brewing in Michigan. LINK

GRAND HAVEN, Mich. (WZZM) -- In a 1962 photo from the Tri-Cities Historical Museum, you can see the large cross illuminated on top of Dewey Hill.

That cross was once used more often than it is today, and most of the year it can't be seen, because it's in the down position.

Ten Sundays each summer, though, a church pays the city to set the cross upright for Worship on the Waterfront.

"It is hydraulic, and it goes up," said Grand Haven Mayor Geri McCaleb. "When it is over, push a button and it goes down. The stadium is rented by the church, and the cross is part of the rental of the whole waterfront stadium experience."
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It sounds like it is stored there more than anything else. There is no tax dollars being used and the cost of operation and maintenance is offset by rental fees by the church. I have been to Grand Haven about a dozen times in the past two years, and I think I have noticed it twice. Both times were on a Sunday as we were going to the beach.

There are some people that I know locally that think it is OK for temporary government activity to occur on church property, but not OK for temporary church activity to occur on government property, even when it is no cost to the taxpayers.
 
Sooo

I turned on Crappy News Network this AM and was immediately greeted by members of our bloated military industrial complex trying to convince congress to go to war against ISIL...er ISIS....ah.....IS(ass holes). About half the audience looked like anti-war demonstrators and two of them got up and made their point while being escorted out.

My question is.....when or will it ever end?
 
The One said:
My question is.....when or will it ever end?
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Dismantle the military-industrial complex and forbid weapons manufacturers from making profits on overseas sales and it will end tomorrow.

But srsly, as long as there are people and capitalism, it will continue.
 
White House Security

Recently two people caused security concerns for the White House. One jumped the fence, and got inside with a knife before being caught. The second pulled up to a gate and refused to leave.

These cases are not totally unheard of, but given the nature of politics in the world this is concerning. Despite what one thinks of the President's political policy, he is the President and needs to be protected from crazy people. So the Secret Service is talking about setting up checkpoints in the public areas to make sure that no one is armed and to prevent things like this from happening again.

Personally, I think it is a great idea as long as it is not taken overboard and people are not permitted to have cameras, phones, and the such while outside the fence.

What are your thoughts?
 
Sounds like security is doing exactly what they're supposed to do. The guy was caught before he could do any damage and the guy at the gate, well some people are just stupid. Arrest him and tow the car.

I agree that we should keep the building open to the public inside and outside the gate.
 
A single gate is pretty simple... maybe we could have a bit more technology... like lasers or something ;)

Honestly though I would imagine this will get the SS to look into a bit stronger anti-crazy solution, like a moat...
 
Hink said:
A single gate is pretty simple... maybe we could have a bit more technology... like lasers or something ;)

Honestly though I would imagine this will get the SS to look into a bit stronger anti-crazy solution, like a moat...
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With sharks that had lasers! And alligators too!
 
michaelskis said:
With sharks that had lasers! And alligators too!
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Apparently the White House uses a low-tech solution to intruders, attack dogs! :-c http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/22/us/white-house-security-mulls-tourist-screens.html?_r=0

According to officials briefed on the review, one of the biggest questions senior Secret Service officials want answered is why officers on the grounds did not deploy attack dogs that are specifically trained to stop intruders, even those sprinting across the White House lawn.

At all times, there are several muzzled Belgian Malinois on the White House grounds, officials said. The early assessment by senior agency officials is that the dog handlers should have quickly removed the muzzles and unleashed the dogs.

All I can imagine is the many Simpsons scenes where Mr. Burns releases the hounds...
 
Nothing scarier than a pack of dogs coming for you. Release the hounds (in creepy Obama voice)
 
ColoGI said:
Well, he was unarmed. Why wasn't he shot 6 times and the officer sent into hiding?
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Because he was wearing a giant bunny suit and claimed it was Easter? :r:

Or maybe he did what he was told when he noticed all the Secret Service members pointing guns at him.
 
They need to lock the damned door

Hink said:
A single gate is pretty simple... maybe we could have a bit more technology... like lasers or something ;)

Honestly though I would imagine this will get the SS to look into a bit stronger anti-crazy solution, like a moat...
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Seriously.
 
WSU MUP Student said:
I wonder how many people complaining about the salute were ever in the military and never f*ck3d up a salute of their own? :r:
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My guess it is most of them. What he did was inappropriate... we have all done inappropriate at times.

I just think it is funny how the media is making such a big deal out of it. Let's face it, the guy recently decided to end the lives of a whole bunch of bad guys, (with questionable authority, but that is another discussion), and I am sure he had a lot going on. If this is the worst thing he does all day, it is not that bad of a day.
 
The One said:
Do you mean this one?
JddFMYq.jpg
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michaelskis said:
Wow. There is a bunch of angry people about the President's coffee salute today. CNN link because it would be a lie if Fox News said the same thing.

Bush was an idiot when he didn't do it, and it is the same with Obama.

I do find it interesting that it started with Reagan. I thought it would have gone back farther than that.
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Sorry, I criticized Bush first... you need to find another President to criticize.
 
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