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NEVERENDING ♾️ The NEVERENDING Political Discussion Thread

Until the NRA supports the study of guns and the harmful effects, I will not support them. There were arguments from tobacco companies for years against doing studies to find out the harmful effects. Once we finally started doing studies, it was pretty clear.

Since the government does not permit comprehensive studies on guns, it makes it tough to make clear arguments one way or another. Give us 5 years with NRA / Government funded studies, and I think the argument will be beyond clear.
 
Hink said:
Until the NRA supports the study of guns and the harmful effects, I will not support them. There were arguments from tobacco companies for years against doing studies to find out the harmful effects. Once we finally started doing studies, it was pretty clear.
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I ended my membership because I could tell they were trying to sell a product (more guns) than anything else. Almost everything they sent, as benign as it actually was, seemed to be designed to rile people up over fear, so people stocked up and bought more guns or ammo, rather than actually lobby for gun rights. Obama has seriously been the best thing to the gun industry; my friend and I joke that we should have started a gun shop rather than go to college. With the hype that has occurred over the last 8 years, we would have made a comfortable living for ourselves.
 
Hink said:
Until the NRA supports the study of guns and the harmful effects, I will not support them. There were arguments from tobacco companies for years against doing studies to find out the harmful effects. Once we finally started doing studies, it was pretty clear.

Since the government does not permit comprehensive studies on guns, it makes it tough to make clear arguments one way or another. Give us 5 years with NRA / Government funded studies, and I think the argument will be beyond clear.
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I have made it no secret that I don't have an NRA membership because I don't agree with several of their positions and the way they do business. I support background checks. In the computer age with the criminal database set up the way it is, this should be a given. It is stupid to think that this can not be done quickly and efficiently. I also think that a "Medical Flag" should show up on the criminal search that requires a doctor to sign off. Because I don't want someone under the influence of medical marihuana, a narcotic, or someone who is currently using depression medications buying or carrying a gun.

I think that your statement regarding a study is a very good idea. I think that you will find that the guns used in crimes are often stolen from those who purchased them legally because they were not property secured in a safe, lock box, or property placed in an appropriate holster.
 
dw914er said:
Is anyone planning to watch the SOTU?
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Wasn't planning on it, there's has got to be some sort of rerun of some tv show on some channel<roll eyes>

michaelskis said:
I think that your statement regarding a study is a very good idea. I think that you will find that the guns used in crimes are often stolen from those who purchased them legally because they were not property secured in a safe, lock box, or property placed in an appropriate holster.
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Having grown up around guns, this is the thing that bugs me the most. Further, when you see a small kid shooting another one, it's because some parent didn't secure the weapon. I had gun safety drilled into me to the point it was second nature.. If you are going to own a gun, take care of it, secure both the weapon and the ammo separately and take classes.
 
I watched the SOTU. I also watched the Republican response.

My thoughts are pretty simple:

- The President seemed upbeat.
- He seemed to try and find some common ground.
- He still was beating his partisan drum on many topics.
- He didn't really layout much of a vision.
- He didn't really push the "future" ideas.

- The republican response was bad.
- The woman chosen to give it was a good choice.
- The problem was the lack of content.


Overall I thought there were a couple good points, a couple lies, and a lot of partisanship. I do like that Obama throws in humor (the mad men line, the joke about talking to your mother, etc.).

I give it a meh on a scale from STALIN to MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.
 
Whose Yur Planner said:
Having grown up around guns, this is the thing that bugs me the most. Further, when you see a small kid shooting another one, it's because some parent didn't secure the weapon. I had gun safety drilled into me to the point it was second nature.. If you are going to own a gun, take care of it, secure both the weapon and the ammo separately and take classes.
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I think that education and keeping them locked up are something that is so overlooked. My son knows and can recite all the basic gun safety rules and knows he is not to touch a gun unless I hand it to him, or my FIL hands it to him. When my sister and brother-in-law came to visit a while back, he brought this new SR1911 with him and the first thing we did was put it in my gun safe. Granted it was unloaded and the ammo was in his suitcase, but he knows that I don't play around with this stuff.

The saddest part of all of this is that it is not hard to practice proper gun safety. A person can get a basic locking gun cabinet $50. If someone is going to spend hundreds on a gun, they can afford a basic cabinet too. I even go as far as keeping a small lock box in every car just in case I do cary and I have to go in someplace that prohibits it, which if a property owner does not want a gun on his property, then I think that is their right to make that decision... even if I don't agree with it.

One part of the NRA that I do approve of is their Eddie Eagle program. It teaches youth gun safety.






On a different note, I did not watch the STOTU last night. I will read the transcript at some point in the next few days. I do have to admit that what I heard on the radio this morning while waiting for the did catch my interest. One of the things the President said was that he would use executive authority to pass laws. Last time I checked, this was congress's job. What are your thoughts on the President bypassing congress to do what he wants, regardless if they are willing to go along? I admit I have yet to read the full context, but was surprised to hear that soundbite.
 
michaelskis said:
One of the things the President said was that he would use executive authority to pass laws. Last time I checked, this was congress's job. What are your thoughts on the President bypassing congress to do what he wants, regardless if they are willing to go along? I admit I have yet to read the full context, but was surprised to hear that soundbite.
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Not laws, Executive Orders.
 
michaelskis said:
On a different note, I did not watch the STOTU last night. I will read the transcript at some point in the next few days. I do have to admit that what I heard on the radio this morning while waiting for the did catch my interest. One of the things the President said was that he would use executive authority to pass laws. Last time I checked, this was congress's job. What are your thoughts on the President bypassing congress to do what he wants, regardless if they are willing to go along? I admit I have yet to read the full context, but was surprised to hear that soundbite.
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Skip it, get ready for another case of tail chasing.
 
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NHPlanner said:
Not laws, Executive Orders.
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The way the news (ABC news affiliate) made it sound was that he would go above and beyond these. The commentator was a constitutional professor at some eastern college and said that he was going to use this to raise the federal minimum wage for everyone with the pen. The professor said that he can control what the federal government pays people, but it takes an act of Congress to set the minimum wage for private businesses.

If it is within the constitutional powers, then I don't have a problem with the method, even if I don't agree with the policy.
 
michaelskis said:
The way the news (ABC news affiliate) made it sound was that he would go above and beyond these. The commentator was a constitutional professor at some eastern college and said that he was going to use this to raise the federal minimum wage for everyone with the pen. The professor said that he can control what the federal government pays people, but it takes an act of Congress to set the minimum wage for private businesses.

If it is within the constitutional powers, then I don't have a problem with the method, even if I don't agree with the policy.
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Federal contractors is what the EO will cover. He urged Congress to pass legislation for the minimum wage for all.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...wage-in-executive-action-tied-to-state-union/
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2014/01/28/obama-to-raise-minimum-wage-for-federal-contractors/

EDIT:

Interesting chart showing the number of Executive Orders (per year) from presidents over time...actually surprised to see that Obama hasn't used more.
uwbu.jpg
 
NHPlanner said:
Federal contractors is what the EO will cover. He urged Congress to pass legislation for the minimum wage for all.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...wage-in-executive-action-tied-to-state-union/
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2014/01/28/obama-to-raise-minimum-wage-for-federal-contractors/

EDIT:

Interesting chart showing the number of Executive Orders (per year) from presidents over time...actually surprised to see that Obama hasn't used more.
uwbu.jpg
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WOW, I am surprised by that chart... I wonder what the mind frame change was since the last 5 presidents used the least. There are times where I think that the EO use is the most appropriate measure. Like setting the minimum wage for federal employees, that is much better as an EO then a congressional fight. (Although I don't agree with the minimum wage policy)

One of these days I will have to look into what all FDR use them for. That seems like a lot.
 
NHPlanner said:
Interesting chart showing the number of Executive Orders (per year) from presidents over time...actually surprised to see that Obama hasn't used more.
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He's encountering stonewalling on an FDR level. He can stop the Kabuki theater, quit pretending, and sign some Executive Orders if he wants to get something done. If he's fine with the direction and speed the country is going in now, he can continue what he is doing.
 
michaelskis said:
WOW, I am surprised by that chart... I wonder what the mind frame change was since the last 5 presidents used the least. There are times where I think that the EO use is the most appropriate measure. Like setting the minimum wage for federal employees, that is much better as an EO then a congressional fight. (Although I don't agree with the minimum wage policy)

One of these days I will have to look into what all FDR use them for. That seems like a lot.
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Keep this information in mind as you listen to and read things from right-wing sources. The way they represent any Obama executive actions should tell you something.
 
imaplanner said:
Keep this information in mind as you listen to and read things from right-wing sources. The way they represent any Obama executive actions should tell you something.
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ABC news is a right-wing source? Wow what as the media come too? :lmao:


As for the Skittles, it would be like a meth cooker with a box of Sudafed.
 
I've been fairly critical of the Obama presidency, as I've felt that he has been unable to successfully navigate Congress to get things done. But the more I read and hear, I really think that history is going to look positively upon the Obama presidency, and recognize how much the Congressional GOP attempted to roadblock legislation just to roadblock legislation.
 
btrage said:
I've been fairly critical of the Obama presidency, as I've felt that he has been unable to successfully navigate Congress to get things done. But the more I read and hear, I really think that history is going to look positively upon the Obama presidency, and recognize how much the Congressional GOP attempted to roadblock legislation just to roadblock legislation.
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Welcome to post Citizen's United America.
 
btrage said:
In thought the same thing. Stereotype thread?
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He had 2 of the 3 ingredients for a drug that he was commenting on not too far before he got killed.


On a side note, does anyone know how many people are unpaid interns or working for less than the $10.10 minimum wage that Obama talked about working in the White House?

How do you think raising the national minimum wage to $10.10 will effect the cost of goods and small business owners?
 
Suburb Repairman said:
While nowhere near the same thing in terms of human impact, I'm convinced that the sketchy jurisprudence used to affirm Citizens United will rank up there with Dred Scott & Plessy.
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One of the worst SC decisions ever. While I believe the corporations should have a say in decisions/regulations that effect them, this was the absolutely wrong way to do it. It has opened the floodgates and concentrated power in the hands of a few.
 
Mitt Stir!

I have a feeling your pal Mitt is runnin' agin' in 2016. None of these other clowns has a chance.

Today I'll put down US$20 on his victory. Fueled by SuperPAC money from Rove and Koch and Adelson, of course, and a hundred books in 2015 out of the bowels of Regenery.
 
michaelskis said:
He had 2 of the 3 ingredients for a drug that he was commenting on not too far before he got killed.


On a side note, does anyone know how many people are unpaid interns or working for less than the $10.10 minimum wage that Obama talked about working in the White House?

How do you think raising the national minimum wage to $10.10 will effect the cost of goods and small business owners?
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There should be no unpaid interns. It's a sham for business owners to make extra money off of free labor.

Raising the minimum wage to $15 would effect the cost of goods or small business owners very little. The cost is spread out over the cost of all units produced. Meaning a very small raise in costs while increasing the purchasing power of the employees across the board. As far as labor costs go for small businesses go, a raise to $15 would effect the cost of labor seemingly significantly. Until the increased cost of purchasing power for employees is factored into the the benefits category. Remember, you can not say that the equation is one sided, if it is a net loss for labor costs, you have to add a significantly greater number of sales of units to the benefits side of the ledger due to increased purchasing power.

Waitresses should receive the same hourly wage as anybody else. A tip is then just a tip, for doing a good job, and not as a means to externalize the cost of labor by the business owner so they can rake in unwarranted profits.

All of this could just shift the cost of training and retaining multiple part time employees to training and retaining fewer more motivated full time workers.

Big box stores such as Wal-Mart should have to reimburse the Local/State/Federal government the ENTIRE cost of government benefits for any employee that is on public assistance. This would encourage such business entities to pay the actual cost of employees and more full time employees over lower paid part time workers.

Any business caught employing illegal immigrants is seized, to include the assets of the business owner, and then the assets auctioned off and the business managers sent to jail for fraud. This includes farmers. Watch illegal immigration disappear, FAST! Watch under employment noted below disappear.

The draw back? What do we do when we find the true rate of under employment.
 
Duke Of Dystopia said:
There should be no unpaid interns. It's a sham for business owners to make extra money off of free labor.

Raising the minimum wage to $15 would effect the cost of goods or small business owners very little. The cost is spread out over the cost of all units produced. Meaning a very small raise in costs while increasing the purchasing power of the employees across the board. As far as labor costs go for small businesses go, a raise to $15 would effect the cost of labor seemingly significantly. Until the increased cost of purchasing power for employees is factored into the the benefits category. Remember, you can not say that the equation is one sided, if it is a net loss for labor costs, you have to add a significantly greater number of sales of units to the benefits side of the ledger due to increased purchasing power.

Waitresses should receive the same hourly wage as anybody else. A tip is then just a tip, for doing a good job, and not as a means to externalize the cost of labor by the business owner so they can rake in unwarranted profits.

All of this could just shift the cost of training and retaining multiple part time employees to training and retaining fewer more motivated full time workers.

Big box stores such as Wal-Mart should have to reimburse the Local/State/Federal government the ENTIRE cost of government benefits for any employee that is on public assistance. This would encourage such business entities to pay the actual cost of employees and more full time employees over lower paid part time workers.

Any business caught employing illegal immigrants is seized, to include the assets of the business owner, and then the assets auctioned off and the business managers sent to jail for fraud. This includes farmers. Watch illegal immigration disappear, FAST! Watch under employment noted below disappear.

The draw back? What do we do when we find the true rate of under employment.
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I think that you raise some interesting points and I agree 100% about the illegal immigrants thing.

I don't understand the raising the purchasing power across the board part. Are you saying that those who make more than minimum wadge are also going to get a raise? Right now the minimum wadge in Michigan is $7.40 per hour. At $15.00 you just doubled that pay. If you have 20 employees at store working 20 hour shifts, your annual employment cost just went from $153,920 to $312,000, an increase of $158,080. If your margin was only 10% or 15% you are now losing money and have to cut your staff by almost half to break even.

The other part that I don't understand is I was told that one of the factors for federal benefits is tied to the number of dependents you have. If a person working at Wal-Mart has a baby, they would get a raise regardless of how hard they work... while someone who works harder and has been there longer (and doesn't have dependents) might not?
 
michaelskis said:
The other part that I don't understand is I was told that one of the factors for federal benefits is tied to the number of dependents you have. If a person working at Wal-Mart has a baby, they would get a raise regardless of how hard they work... while someone who works harder and has been there longer (and doesn't have dependents) might not?
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The point I think DoD is trying to make is that Walmart and others do not pay a living wage. Their workers depend on some sort of government assistance in order to survive. Basically, Walmart is using the government to subside it's business allowing them to artificially keep their prices low. Whereas Costco, which I like and wish we had one, pays a living wage.
 
Whose Yur Planner said:
The point I think DoD is trying to make is that Walmart and others do not pay a living wage. Their workers depend on some sort of government assistance in order to survive. Basically, Walmart is using the government to subside it's business allowing them to artificially keep their prices low. Whereas Costco, which I like and wish we had one, pays a living wage.
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I was not aware that costco did that. Makes me happy that I am a costco member and that I don't shop at wal-mart.
 
I did not get a chance to see it, but I'm going to look for the President Obama / Bill O'Reilly interview that was on the air before the Super Bowl (oh am I allowed say Super Bowl?)


I have read a couple articles on the interview and here's one of the main highlights:

(from USAToday) On Benghazi, O'Reilly told Obama that "your detractors" believe that officials at first blamed the attack on a spontaneous demonstration because the 2012 re-election campaign didn't want it known there had been a terrorist attack.

"They believe it because folks like you are telling them," Obama told O'Reilly.



While reading those articles I saw that Hillary Clinton sent out a tweet during the Super Bowl that said "It's so much fun to watch FOX when it's someone else being blitzed and sacked."
 
Planit said:
I did not get a chance to see it, but I'm going to look for the President Obama / Bill O'Reilly interview that was on the air before the Super Bowl (oh am I allowed say Super Bowl?)


I have read a couple articles on the interview and here's one of the main highlights:

(from USAToday) On Benghazi, O'Reilly told Obama that "your detractors" believe that officials at first blamed the attack on a spontaneous demonstration because the 2012 re-election campaign didn't want it known there had been a terrorist attack.

"They believe it because folks like you are telling them," Obama told O'Reilly.



While reading those articles I saw that Hillary Clinton sent out a tweet during the Super Bowl that said "It's so much fun to watch FOX when it's someone else being blitzed and sacked."
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This recap sums it up. I am watching it at lunch.

http://theweek.com/article/index/25...ous-super-bowl-interview-with-president-obama
 
Planit said:
GA Rep. Paul Broun is giving away an AR-15 as part of his campaign strategy saying that I won't give away your 2nd amendment rights, but I will give away an AR-15 or Obama wants to take your gun but I'll give one to you

http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2...enate_candidate_is_raffling_off_an_ar_15.html


bubba's got a gun
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:unitedstates:

Broun's a pain-in-the-rear for the Georgia GOP. The Slate article is correct in that he's very beatable in the general election if he manages to win the primary. His campaign, compared to the other GOP candidates, has basically no money to spend, but they've done a good job so far of at least raising his name recognition outside of his current Congressional district. The fear is that either he'll mange to win the primary, or that whoever does beat him does so by pandering to the far right and alienates the middle in the process. Michelle Nunn would have to really screw up to lose the general to Broun.

I'm sure one of my cousins would be more than happy to take an AR-15 off my hands...
 
michaelskis said:
I was not aware that costco did that. Makes me happy that I am a costco member and that I don't shop at wal-mart.
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Costco has also always offered medical and dental insurance to all workers, full and part time. Just so you know.
 
Sorry, some NSFW language in there.

 
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