NEVERENDING ♾️ The NEVERENDING Political Discussion Thread

[Bubba]

It's a real shame that the ignorant minority have a voice in this thread and in the halls of Congress.

So you're all for suppressing the voice of folks you don't agree with in Congress (I assume that's what you mean by "ignorant minority")? Okely dokely. :h:

 

[Mastiff]

The ACA website might be one of the few websites up and running. Shame it does not work as the president promised it would.

Irrelevant to my post.

As for voting, is that why Harry Reid will not let the senate vote on the bills to fund DC, the NPS, and Medical Reserch or why he would not let anyone but him make any amendments to any of the first 3 CR bills passed cy the house.

Irrelevant to my post.

The Senate has the power to fund medical research, the Parks and DC, IF Harry Reid stops playing politics and starts to care more about the American people and less about his ego.

Irrelevant to my post.

This is very typical of your pattern of ducking and dodging when someone calls you out. You said this whole mess is about "funding" the ACA, which it is not. It's about a bunch of adults acting like two-year olds and holding their breath until they turn blue if the clock isn't turned back three years and the ACA is gutted.

The Dems have nothing to lose, and they know it. Check the polls.

I found this to be ever so accurate...

 

[btrage]

So you're all for suppressing the voice of folks you don't agree with in Congress (I assume that's what you mean by "ignorant minority")? Okely dokely. :h:

I'm not down with suppressing at all. Just amazed at the level of ignorance displayed. And it's not just in Congress. I see and hear it everywhere I go.

I have many friends who claim on social media that "Obamacare is gonna give everyone free health care.". I politely asked if that is true, can you please direct me to where I can find this "free" health care. No responses. Ignorance. What is it driven by?

 

[michaelskis]

This thread lately typifies what is wrong with our country's politics. It's a real shame that the ignorant minority have a voice in this thread and in the halls of Congress.

So you're all for suppressing the voice of folks you don't agree with in Congress (I assume that's what you mean by "ignorant minority")? Okely dokely. :h:

There has been debates of fundamental beliefs since the country was founded.... all the way back to the debates between Jefferson and Hamilton regarding what type of government should be established. Frankly I am surprised and disappointed that you would say that one side or another should not even have a voice, only because the other disagrees.

 

[Bubba]

I'm not down with suppressing at all. Just amazed at the level of ignorance displayed. And it's not just in Congress. I see and hear it everywhere I go.

Just yanking yer chain a little. Personally I just wish both sides of the aisle would just shut the hell up and get things going again so I don't have to face a furlough.

Frankly I am surprised and disappointed that you would say that one side or another should not even have a voice, only because the other disagrees.

If this is addressed to me, you're reading way too much into my mildly snarky/sarcastic response to btrage...

 

[michaelskis]

If this is addressed to me, you're reading way too much into my mildly snarky/sarcastic response to btrage...

It was in agreement with you in response to btrage, but I did not see his response until after I posted. I agree that both sides need to stop playing politics and fix this boondoggle.

 

[imaplanner]

Things everyone agrees will happen if we don't raise the debt ceiling:

1. Our interest rates we pay on our debt will skyrocket- resulting in way more money to service the debt
2. We won't be able to pay for existing programs including military.
3. Other countries will start moving away from the dollar.
4. stocks will collapse
5. Our economic growth will take a huge hit

things that could happen:
1. A bigger catatastrophe than the 2008 recession

And now we have conservative groups actively pushing for us to not raise it- tea party groups and even Heritage are actively demanding we don't raise it. Why would they want for this to happen to our country?

 

[michaelskis]

Things everyone agrees will happen if we don't raise the debt ceiling:

1. Our interest rates we pay on our debt will skyrocket- resulting in way more money to service the debt
2. We won't be able to pay for existing programs including military.
3. Other countries will start moving away from the dollar.
4. stocks will collapse
5. Our economic growth will take a huge hit

things that could happen:
1. A bigger catatastrophe than the 2008 recession

And now we have conservative groups actively pushing for us to not raise it- tea party groups and even Heritage are actively demanding we don't raise it. Why would they want for this to happen to our country?

You forgot the swarms of locusts, the 40-days and 40 nights of rain, and the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse riding down wall street.

I personally think that there must be a better way than raising the debt ceiling. However I think that if it did not change the budget numbers from the sequester, was to return to current levels or below current levels within 60 to 90 days, AND was part of a package that would require drastic spending cuts to prevent this from happening again, then I would support it.

 

[Whose Yur Planner]

You forgot the swarms of locusts, the 40-days and 40 nights of rain, and the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse riding down wall street.

I personally think that there must be a better way than raising the debt ceiling. However I think that if it did not change the budget numbers from the sequester, was to return to current levels or below current levels within 60 to 90 days, AND was part of a package that would require drastic spending cuts to prevent this from happening again, then I would support it.

And what would you cut? Please don't give me "if it ain't in the Constitution"

 

[imaplanner]

You forgot the swarms of locusts, the 40-days and 40 nights of rain, and the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse riding down wall street.

I personally think that there must be a better way than raising the debt ceiling. However I think that if it did not change the budget numbers from the sequester, was to return to current levels or below current levels within 60 to 90 days, AND was part of a package that would require drastic spending cuts to prevent this from happening again, then I would support it.

no. These things absolutely will happen. But it seems to me that when they do happen you will just blame it all on president Obama. Many of these clowns in congress are alreaday saying "we wont raise the debt ceiling but if we don't and something bad happens we will impeach the president".

The thing to take out of this is that many people claiming to be conservatives are not. Conservatism does not involve purposefully increasing our interest payments or defaulting on payment obligations. What would Dave Ramsey say?

 

[ColoGI]

So you're all for suppressing the voice of folks you don't agree with in Congress (I assume that's what you mean by "ignorant minority")? Okely dokely. :h:

It's a shame our politics is so broken their inane candidates get elected.

 

[rcgplanner]

It's a shame our politics is so broken their inane candidates get elected.

How do you negoitate with a group of people who think the President and all of his actions are illegitimate? How are you expected to reach consensus with people who shut down the government over a law that was passed by Congress, signed by the President, and upheld by the Supreme Court? How do you work with someone who honestly thinks that we are living in the end times partially because of the President's actions or someone who thinks that allowing default is an "impeachable offense", eventhough you yourself wouldn't vote to allow the debt ceiling to be raised?

While these attitudes don't reflect all of the Republican party, it does represent a cancer in the party that is clouding the judgement of the leadership and causing real harm to this nation. The Republican party needs to figure out how to counteract these voices, otherwishe they are going to be a minority party in the near future.

 

[michaelskis]

And what would you cut? Please don't give me "if it ain't in the Constitution"

I don't know, but I would start with a 60% paycut of all elected officials for getting us into this mess in the first place which will still leave them with at least 60K a year, (full pay reinstated if surplus budget allows. I would then would follow up with substantial reduction and restructuring of the DOD, Home Land Security, and all of branches of the armed forces into a new DOD. The UN can be the world's police, not us. The Department of Energy and the Department of Education, Small Business Administration, Department of Commerce, would be eliminated and the Department of Interior, HUD, EPA, NPS, and Department of Labor would reduced and combined into Department of Domestic Affairs.

Social Security would be phased out over the next decade and Obamacare will be eliminated.

The Federal tax system will be completely revised to a flat tax system with zero deductibles and the IRS would be eliminated.

The presidential golf course would be sold off and until the national debt the presidential vacation plan would be eliminated.

no. These things absolutely will happen. But it seems to me that when they do happen you will just blame it all on president Obama. Many of these clowns in congress are alreaday saying "we wont raise the debt ceiling but if we don't and something bad happens we will impeach the president".

The thing to take out of this is that many people claiming to be conservatives are not. Conservatism does not involve purposefully increasing our interest payments or defaulting on payment obligations. What would Dave Ramsey say?

No, I will blame it on the collective efforts of Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, Johnson, Kennedy, Eisenhower, Truman, Roosevelt, Hoover, Coolidge, Harding, Wilson, Taft, and even a bit of Roosevelt for allowing the groundwork to be set. The problem is that 100 years ago there would have been riots in the streets for things that today we think are just politics as usual.

Both parties are at fault, they both spend way too much, they both fill bills with pork spending, and both of them are an insult to the real American Dream.

Dave Ramesy would say what he always says, don't go into debt and only a total idiot would go further into debt to pay for existing debt.

 

[imaplanner]

I don't know, but I would start with a 60% paycut of all elected officials for getting us into this mess in the first place which will still leave them with at least 60K a year, (full pay reinstated if surplus budget allows. I would then would follow up with substantial reduction and restructuring of the DOD, Home Land Security, and all of branches of the armed forces into a new DOD. The UN can be the world's police, not us. The Department of Energy and the Department of Education, Small Business Administration, Department of Commerce, would be eliminated and the Department of Interior, HUD, EPA, NPS, and Department of Labor would reduced and combined into Department of Domestic Affairs.

Social Security would be phased out over the next decade and Obamacare will be eliminated.

The Federal tax system will be completely revised to a flat tax system with zero deductibles and the IRS would be eliminated.

The presidential golf course would be sold off and until the national debt the presidential vacation plan would be eliminated.



No, I will blame it on the collective efforts of Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, Johnson, Kennedy, Eisenhower, Truman, Roosevelt, Hoover, Coolidge, Harding, Wilson, Taft, and even a bit of Roosevelt for allowing the groundwork to be set. The problem is that 100 years ago there would have been riots in the streets for things that today we think are just politics as usual.

Both parties are at fault, they both spend way too much, they both fill bills with pork spending, and both of them are an insult to the real American Dream.

Dave Ramesy would say what he always says, don't go into debt and only a total idiot would go further into debt to pay for existing debt.

You never answer the questions asked of you. Not raising the debt cieling will destroy our credit rating and result in billions more in interest to service the existing debt. What would Dave Ramsey say about purposefully destroying your credit rating and purposefully increasing your existing interest? And then why would anyone want to do that? Can you answer that question without shifting?

 

[Hink]

No, I will blame it on the collective efforts of Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, Johnson, Kennedy, Eisenhower, Truman, Roosevelt, Hoover, Coolidge, Harding, Wilson, Taft, and even a bit of Roosevelt for allowing the groundwork to be set. The problem is that 100 years ago there would have been riots in the streets for things that today we think are just politics as usual.

So you are blaming our system? The one we have had since our founding? Why do you hate America?

The real problem is that you don't like a policy. You don't agree. And instead of understanding that it isn't a policy position that is reasonable to take (i.e. if I don't get my way the government is shut down), you argue that it has been building for years (in your case roughly 100).

I just don't understand how you can be so blind to the real situation and just continue to spew the talking points. You might not like something, but we live in a country where we don't all get what we want. I am pretty sure that is a conservative / republican talking point. Everyone isn't going to be happy / healthy / or even right. I am pretty sure everyone can agree that our country / politicians / laws don't always follow our personal beliefs. That is because it isn't about individual groups. It is about the greater good and the whole. Sure that might be called socialism (by people that don't really understand socialism), or it might be called democracy. If you vote it in an election, if you vote it in the house or the senate, it is a representation of our democracy. That is how it works. And although we all can disagree on policy, our democracy is pretty great. So you lost this time, pick yourself up and figure out what you need to do to stop being the party of no and begin to actually stand for something positive.

The republicans need to clean out the tea party quickly and harshly, and work to regain the trust of the American people for the sake of the country. Ted Cruz running for President will be a bigger mistake for the Republican party than picking Sarah Palin as VP. And everyone knows that is saying a lot...

 

[dw914er]

Both parties are at fault, they both spend way too much, they both fill bills with pork spending, and both of them are an insult to the real American Dream.

Dave Ramesy would say what he always says, don't go into debt and only a total idiot would go further into debt to pay for existing debt.

A couple of thoughts. I do agree that things should be cut, and that certain redundancies should be eliminated. Granted, it is much easier said than done simply because some of those redundancies fill specific roles which are either needed to address 1) the purpose of the agency, or 2) to more effectively regulate the laws that have been enacted. Hell, reducing redundancies is not an easy task for any organization, private, public, or non-profit for similar reasons as well and all the 'politics' involved. This axiom does not warrant further discussion. However, there is a time and place for such discussions, and I do not think right now is the right time to put up the ultimatum. Remember, the debt ceiling is something we had imposed on ourselves; moving it does not necessarily mean we're bad off, but not moving it does. By all real economic metrics (and not the household discussion fallacy), our debt is not actually a significant risk. But secondly, this discussion needs to be a partisan effort as well. Some fringe element using it to stop some bill (which they could not do otherwise) seems like an poor effort of a serious discussion. This is an attitude of irreverence towards how the legislative branch is supposed to govern.

Now, this specific crisis is the fault of the Tea Party. I feel like several things are occurring. 1) the so called Hastert's rule has Boehner is a vice. Why not move the clean CR that could pass even if the majority of the majority may not be all in favor? You might lose the role of speaker? Do your job and get something (and something reasonable) and move it forward 2) They seem to confused as to what their end goal will be at this point. Their own budget isn't coming together and now the Senate is sorta going over them. 3) Is this fight really worth it? Peter King is even saying going WTH. Regardless, it is a cop-out to say otherwise. A 100 year endeavor? This just is a cheap way to reinforce your bias rather than looking at the situation and resolving it correctly. Hell, we can go back to the 1770's and blame the British for this mess... well, we had to start out own country and look at this crap we're in now. It's their fault. (I am being snarky there; no offense was intended )

My growing concern is that some keep overlooking that the ACA, which has been the real crux of this entire fight, was passed legitimately and even after being challenged ad nauseum for repeal and at the supreme court, it still is valid. Why would anyone think that this behavior is a valid way of governing. I get it. Some people are rallied up over the bill thinking that it is the worse thing to happen in recent history. Granted, almost every objection is based upon either a complete misunderstanding or false propaganda. But it rallies the troops and makes people think the fight is just. Regardless, I would be sorely disappointing if long term impacts occur as a result of this fiasco because my generation is going to have to live with the repercussions. I think the idea that 'nothing bad will happen, but we're stopping the big bad government and saving America' is disingenuous and severely misinformed.

 

[imaplanner]

)

My growing concern is that some keep overlooking that the ACA, which has been the real crux of this entire fight, was passed legitimately and even after being challenged ad nauseum for repeal and at the supreme court, it still is valid. Why would anyone think that this behavior is a valid way of governing. I get it. Some people are rallied up over the bill thinking that it is the worse thing to happen in recent history. Granted, almost every objection is based upon either a complete misunderstanding or false propaganda. But it rallies the troops and makes people think the fight is just. Regardless, I would be sorely disappointing if long term impacts occur as a result of this fiasco because my generation is going to have to live with the repercussions. I think the idea that 'nothing bad will happen, but we're stopping the big bad government and saving America' is disingenuous and severely misinformed.

Listening to talk radio, it seems like many on the right, particularly the extreme right, really hate what this country has become- at least how they view what America has become. And they are willing to destroy the country in order to "save it" from what it already is. I think when you have this view it means you are completely unwilling to govern or compromise. The whole reason why many of these people vote and run and become politicians is that legitimately want to "save America" by destroying the current America. It's fanaticism combined with dangerous ignorance ( think the Dunning-Kruger effect) and a good amount of white resentment thrown in for good measure. They are a minority of Americans, but they will do everything they can to destroy our current America because they absolutely hate what they believe America has become.

The amazing thing is they are encouraged to engage in behavior that weakens us as a nation by a news network whose principal investor is a Saudi citizen with ties to Al Qaeda.

 

[ddomin4360]

I've been pretty upset about this whole ordeal.

As someone who would have called himself a libertarian less than 2 years ago, last week I registered my political party for Democrats and today I voted for a Democrat/Republican person for a major election for the first time in my life. Cory Booker for Senate, although I might have done that simply because Lonegan's words have been too aggressive and hateful. F- that guy.

 

[Whose Yur Planner]

I don't know, but I would start with a 60% paycut of all elected officials for getting us into this mess in the first place which will still leave them with at least 60K a year, (full pay reinstated if surplus budget allows. I would then would follow up with substantial reduction and restructuring of the DOD, Home Land Security, and all of branches of the armed forces into a new DOD. The UN can be the world's police, not us. The Department of Energy and the Department of Education, Small Business Administration, Department of Commerce, would be eliminated and the Department of Interior, HUD, EPA, NPS, and Department of Labor would reduced and combined into Department of Domestic Affairs.

Social Security would be phased out over the next decade and Obamacare will be eliminated.

The Federal tax system will be completely revised to a flat tax system with zero deductibles and the IRS would be eliminated.

The presidential golf course would be sold off and until the national debt the presidential vacation plan would be eliminated.



No, I will blame it on the collective efforts of Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, Johnson, Kennedy, Eisenhower, Truman, Roosevelt, Hoover, Coolidge, Harding, Wilson, Taft, and even a bit of Roosevelt for allowing the groundwork to be set. The problem is that 100 years ago there would have been riots in the streets for things that today we think are just politics as usual.

Both parties are at fault, they both spend way too much, they both fill bills with pork spending, and both of them are an insult to the real American Dream.

Dave Ramesy would say what he always says, don't go into debt and only a total idiot would go further into debt to pay for existing debt.

Read what you posted. Combine it with what you wrote that you thought Obama was a Muslim (he's not. Not too many Muslims make the overtly Christian comments that he has made) then read kjel's response to your comment on the comic-con thread.

Peace out

 

[Duke Of Dystopia]

HE HE HE!

I suggest everyone go to John Beohners Facebook page! VERY ENTERTAINING! :6:


Also, favorite headline of the night

"REPUBLICANS SCORE AMAZING OWN GOAL"

 

[Duke Of Dystopia]

I cant stop reading the comments on Beohners Facebook page. Each line usually represents 1 unique comment. Talk about vitriol. You never hear this many nasty comments from the left about the left. It also illustrates that there is a real divide about what people think of the other side. Until the GOP begins to believe that people on the left do actually want the country to be successful, are patriotic, and have legitimate ideas, you will have people like these below. These people remind me of our local troll.


why vote to fund any of these things when they can just wait for you to cave...like you saaid you would...like you always do

R let us down. We needed protection from obamacare. They don't care because they don't have to abide by it. No more votes from me for you guys.....

Extra Extra Read all about it: John Boehner kisses Harry Reids Ass!

And you still quit. You need to resign and resign now. Let a house leader take over who can actually do the magical thing you seem to be incapable of....lead.

House republicans also shut down our government genius....Boehner you are trash and Americas enemy. Resigning is the best thing you can do for your country at this point....

And, after all that work, you stabbed them in the back anyway. Nice.

Why didn't you hold out and call their bluff? You're no conservative, John. Please resign

This is what the spineless traitor boehner has done for the American people, once again!! This is from the commie's over at Daily Koz

"Victory is upon us! Republicans have completely folded, agreeing to reopen the government, pay federal employees and extend the debt ceiling while getting absolutely nothing in return.

Credit for this victory belongs entirely to President Barack Obama. Two years ago he vowed to never again negotiate with Republicans over the debt limit, and his refusal to negotiate is why we have emerged victorious today."

Well, everyone said boehner would fold as usual, and they were right. This traitor has lived up to his reputation as the no brain, spineless POS he is!

obama shutdown the gov. republicans caved plain and simple

John Boehner, you are a disgrace and should be removed from your speakership, and ousted from the House!!! you sold us out. you need to retire...all republicans need to retire all RINO's.

John, I private messaged you, please respond. Thanks. I bet he doesn't answer that one!

John "the quiter", you are DONE... You have lost the support of my family from here forward. You are nothing but a R.I.N.O. and traitor. You do not represent the good people of Butler county.
Your spineless and done! Hey boner. You're banned from Ohio prick. Go find yourself another state to embarrass.


Face it Boehner, you're not a wartime Consigliere, you haven't bested this clown once and frankly all you had to do was parrot Reid and say everything was dead on arrival from the Senate and Obama would have to cave. You blinked because you don't have the stomach to stop the most insidious President ever elected, a craven, blamer in chief, you failed to capitalize on a President waging war on the American people through selective shutdowns, and you think some nonsensical bromide about not giving up means a thing? Grow a spine or step off.

You suck.

Should have held firm. Obama and the Democrats would have caved.

Looks like ya'll got knocked the hell out!!!!!!

YOU LIE, BOEHNER! YOU LIE! It does NOT take courage to bow and give Obama and the libs everything they asked for. We see through the act, you are a RINO and you will pay for it at the ballot box.

Unbelievable. You folded like a card table. Are you that out of touch with the real people in America? Did you look out your window and see 80 and 90 year old WW2 vets kicking Barrycade ass while you couldn't even win a stare down with that Marxist clown Obama? If we'd have had people like you on D-Day we'd all be speaking German today. It's a rare thing to meet a guy with no testicles. Unfortunately, the RINO GOP establishment doesn't have one nut to share between the whole disgusting lot of you. The country is beginning to know Ted Cruz. And you, Mr. Speaker, are no Ted Cruz. Here's to voting for a true conservative to kick your ass out of DC. America is beyond tired of you gutless wonders. It's time for a change and you're not part of it.

Resign or join the Democratic party where you seem to get the most votes from!

I have lost all faith in the GOP. You sir are a traitor to your supporters, the constitution and the country. I despise you and the yes voting members of the House more then the jackasses on the left. Quislings, the lot of you.

I was on your side until today. You're worthless!

You are a wothless crybaby p.o.s,lookin forward to the likes of you and mcain losing your sorry asses next election,,,,go fuck yourselfs

Should have let it default.

You sir are as big a problem as the other party members. If you had any balls you would never give up the fight. To take a line from a soldiers greed.
I will never accept defeat.
I will never quit.
Thanks for giving up. Enjoy trying to get reelected.

Mr.Speaker...NOBODY with half a brain believes you, Mitch McConnell, John McCain, Lindsey Graham and the other PROGRESSIVE RINOS anymore. You have lost ALL credibility with the EDUCATED American people...especially considering the DEAL for McConnell that was snuck into the bill! YOU ALL DISGUST ME!!! May God have mercy on you & your empty soul-less cronies...including the POS in chief!!!

It's official, the GOP is now an extension of the Democrats party. Those we elected to represent us have betrayed our trust by caving in to those who are trying to tear down our country. I stand my ground, I am proud to be a Conservative but highly embarrassed to be a Republcan

How's that game thingey working for you now Boner? Go home and get drunk again.

@Boehner: Do you not see the disappointment in your fellow partymen by the majority of comments on this article? Oh that's right. You don't really care. As long as your paycheck keeps coming in. Isn't that what truly matters to you? NO! We do not stand behind you! You are weak!!! You say you will continue the fight??? What fight?? You don't have the spine to fight! Obama knew you would cave in because he knows you are spineless! We need a third party with some guts!!! I am totally disgusted with the Republican party. Time for "True" change! Time for you to retire John Boehner!


He he he he

 

[imaplanner]

DOD that's alot of red and underlines and stuff. I do have to admit that I've been reading alot of conservative blogs and find the general tea party position fascinating from a socioanthropologic perspective.

 

[Bubba]

HE HE HE!

I suggest everyone go to John Beohners Facebook page! VERY ENTERTAINING! :6:


Also, favorite headline of the night

"REPUBLICANS SCORE AMAZING OWN GOAL"

Um, hey, DoD - want to be actually readable? Drop the red and the bold and the underlining...otherwise you come off as a one-note joke that's easy to ignore. Just sayin'.

 

[Hink]

So I will admit that Boehner is my congressman. I have to laugh though at that amount of discussion on local radio, newspapers, etc. about this. The argument is pretty strong here that people think Boehner did the best he could do in this situation.

I see him winning with 65 to 70% support next year. The Tea Party is primarying him, but I think they will have less cards in their deck after this debacle.

You can look at this two ways -

1. The Republicans and particularly the Tea Party lost big. They asked for a lot, and got nothing. They caved, and cost the country billions ($24 by the estimates of some non-partisan number crunchers) while getting nothing and standing for nothing.

2. The Tea Party stood up to the establishment and only needs more like minded people to continue to stand strong against the tyranny of the Washington. Donate now to the PAC of your choice to continue to let the establishment know that they can't continue to compromise with the socialists!


I think most Americans are pretty much in camp 1. I think if the 200+ house republicans want to save face they better accept camp 1 and push out those who support camp 2. Camp 2 is going to kill this country.

 

[ddomin4360]

So I will admit that Boehner is my congressman. I have to laugh though at that amount of discussion on local radio, newspapers, etc. about this. The argument is pretty strong here that people think Boehner did the best he could do in this situation.

I see him winning with 65 to 70% support next year. The Tea Party is primarying him, but I think they will have less cards in their deck after this debacle.

You can look at this two ways -

1. The Republicans and particularly the Tea Party lost big. They asked for a lot, and got nothing. They caved, and cost the country billions ($24 by the estimates of some non-partisan number crunchers) while getting nothing and standing for nothing.

2. The Tea Party stood up to the establishment and only needs more like minded people to continue to stand strong against the tyranny of the Washington. Donate now to the PAC of your choice to continue to let the establishment know that they can't continue to compromise with the socialists!


I think most Americans are pretty much in camp 1. I think if the 200+ house republicans want to save face they better accept camp 1 and push out those who support camp 2. Camp 2 is going to kill this country.

It depends. I think they just gained support in very conservative districts. In places even remotely on the fence I see their opinion mattering less and less.

Early prediction for 14 election. More Tea Party candidates get seats in House, but Democrats gain narrow majority.

 

[michaelskis]

You never answer the questions asked of you. Not raising the debt cieling will destroy our credit rating and result in billions more in interest to service the existing debt. What would Dave Ramsey say about purposefully destroying your credit rating and purposefully increasing your existing interest? And then why would anyone want to do that? Can you answer that question without shifting?

Dave Ramsey would say that a Credit rating is an I love debt score and it is irrelevant. (Link)

Directly to answer your question, Here is what Dave says about the this situation.

So you are blaming our system? The one we have had since our founding? Why do you hate America?

The real problem is that you don't like a policy. You don't agree. And instead of understanding that it isn't a policy position that is reasonable to take (i.e. if I don't get my way the government is shut down), you argue that it has been building for years (in your case roughly 100).

I just don't understand how you can be so blind to the real situation and just continue to spew the talking points. You might not like something, but we live in a country where we don't all get what we want. I am pretty sure that is a conservative / republican talking point. Everyone isn't going to be happy / healthy / or even right. I am pretty sure everyone can agree that our country / politicians / laws don't always follow our personal beliefs. That is because it isn't about individual groups. It is about the greater good and the whole. Sure that might be called socialism (by people that don't really understand socialism), or it might be called democracy. If you vote it in an election, if you vote it in the house or the senate, it is a representation of our democracy. That is how it works. And although we all can disagree on policy, our democracy is pretty great. So you lost this time, pick yourself up and figure out what you need to do to stop being the party of no and begin to actually stand for something positive.

The republicans need to clean out the tea party quickly and harshly, and work to regain the trust of the American people for the sake of the country. Ted Cruz running for President will be a bigger mistake for the Republican party than picking Sarah Palin as VP. And everyone knows that is saying a lot...

I agree that some people might get what they want and others will not. I don’t think that Ted Cruz did the right thing by filibustering (which it wasn’t really). I would not vote for him in the primary, but if it is between him and Hillary Clinton… you know I won’t be voting for her.
I don’t have a problem with the system the founders put in place, I have a problem with the system since 1913.

Read what you posted. Combine it with what you wrote that you thought Obama was a Muslim (he's not. Not too many Muslims make the overtly Christian comments that he has made) then read kjel's response to your comment on the comic-con thread.

Peace out

Can you show me where I said that I think that Obama is a Muslim… I don’t recall posting that.


The Government is open, and as you can imagine, I am not a fan of the bill that was passed last night and if anything, I think it just extends out this argument longer because the bill just opened the Government and another credit card without actually fixing any of the issues.

 

[Duke Of Dystopia]

Um, hey, DoD - want to be actually readable? Drop the red and the bold and the underlining...otherwise you come off as a one-note joke that's easy to ignore. Just sayin'.

I was Just pleasantly amazed at several of the side effects happening last night. Gloating only goes so far. Like it... or not. Curiously, conservative media has been savaging the GOP today. Worse than the "main stream media". The main stream is already refocusing on the next budget battle. I don't know what this means, but I am guessing it does not bode well for the GOP. Why do I think that? Because the GOP is classically tightly messaged and focused. It leads to the idea that the GOP is about to fracture. I surely do not have a Chrystal ball to know the future though.

I am NOT sure that the 3 month deadline to the next shutdown and fiscal cliff will be averted ahead of time. There might be a replay. Why?

1) The next showdown will be over the arcane process of budgeting. For or against, most Americans have never had to deal with one past the household. The government budget is nothing like the home budget. This will muddy the water of who is right or wrong.
2) The House will be in the initial public phase of the 2014 election. They just suffered an amazing self inflicted wound. They will be moderated because of this. BUT They still feel wounded and are going to demand a scalp for it.
3) The teabaggers will not allow the GOP to moderate.
4) The GOP irrationally hates the president. The GOP has shown that they can't even say yes to their own ideas over the last 5 years. The ACA is 90% GOP ideas and they took us to the brink over it. Turning down changes to entitlement reform, the list is very long.
5) John Beohnor can not control his caucus. See comments from Beohnors facebook page above on the result of this. There were 145+ house members, and 18 senators voting to default and destroy the world economy.
6) The deal with senators is that they are subject to the majority will of the entire state. They can be voted out easier than are therefore required to be more level headed. Of the 18, 5 are up for election and or running for president, and Cruz. That leaves 12 senators from deep red states more or less. The worry of being primaried in the future is the problem for dealing for them.
7) Cruz has become the defacto leader of the House republicans.
8) Boehnor is the weakest Speaker of the House EVER. He has shown on EVERY major issue since he became speaker that he can't negotiate in good faith. His caucus won't let him. In fact, they took his negotiating powers away from him. So things have to become difficult to the point of ridiculousness before he can make a deal that sticks.

So, excuse me for being amazed at one of the most amazing political defeats of all times in US history for a night. Understand... that's what it was. It will have repercussions in the future. The GOP has been trying to impeach every DEM president since Nixon. They will really be after Obama now. It's the "payback" effect and it has been going on for 40 years now. This will lead to some type of after effect for years to come. This is not good for our democracy. Constant crisis because you view the other side of the political spectrum as less than human, socialist, communist, etc. and cannot make a deal is not good for our democracy.

The result of this, is we may have to do this every 3 months at least through 2016. The GOP deserves what just happened to them. They have been trying to torch our economy for 5 years and we have at least 3 more ahead. We would have a balanced budget right now if they would get out of the way and quit playing economic terrorist. Who knows what they are going to do when a woman gets elected next.

It would help our country, if the GOP broke up. It would mean that Americans finally made a decision how to run the country. We will still have opposition parties and I believe we would still work back to a situation where we have 2 major parties but the 2nd party would be more capable of making logical deals to operate the country and the third would waste away.

So, Bubba, I think my pony understands how difficult the future is going to be. It has no illusions or halcyon dreams of easy going peace and love. Not going to happen.

So, buck up and tell us how you see our near future developing?

 

[Whose Yur Planner]

Can you show me where I said that I think that Obama is a Muslim… I don't recall posting that.


.

#3232 I agree that some of the behaviors this weekend were in appropriate, and I doing think that Obama is a Muslim...Nor would I care if he was .

 

[michaelskis]

#3232 I agree that some of the behaviors this weekend were in appropriate, and I doing think that Obama is a Muslim...Nor would I care if he was .

It was a typo, but yes, it can be read that way... it should have read "I don't think that Obama is a Muslim... Nor would I care if he was." Thank you for bringing that to my attention because I don't want people thinking that I believe that he is Muslim. I agree that people need to get over the the misconceptions about his religion and where they think he was born. (I believe he was born in HI)

 

[terraplnr]

THIS is what really bothers me... I knew that all of this time wasted over the past few years was not getting anything accomplished, driving up uncertainty in our fragile economy, and impacting our economic rebound, but I didn't know it was costing us this much. Thanks, nutjobs in D.C...

Sham Crises Created By Congress Have Cost The US Nearly 1 Million Jobs

http://www.businessinsider.com/impa...y-crises-on-the-economy-2013-10#ixzz2i0v6pgCw

"Since late 2009, fiscal policy uncertainty has raised the Baa corporate bond spread by 38 basis points, lowered GDP growth by 0.3 percentage points per year, and raised the unemployment rate in 2013 by 0.6 percentage points, equivalent to 900,000 lost jobs."

 

[ddomin4360]

THIS is what really bothers me... I knew that all of this time wasted over the past few years was not getting anything accomplished, driving up uncertainty in our fragile economy, and impacting our economic rebound, but I didn't know it was costing us this much. Thanks, nutjobs in D.C...

Sham Crises Created By Congress Have Cost The US Nearly 1 Million Jobs

http://www.businessinsider.com/impa...y-crises-on-the-economy-2013-10#ixzz2i0v6pgCw

"Since late 2009, fiscal policy uncertainty has raised the Baa corporate bond spread by 38 basis points, lowered GDP growth by 0.3 percentage points per year, and raised the unemployment rate in 2013 by 0.6 percentage points, equivalent to 900,000 lost jobs."

Its clear they want this (or at least a subsection of them do). Ruin economy, blame Obama as leader of country, get back in power.

The vocal media conservative leaders (Rush, Hannity, etc.) don't care. They make money regardless. Having the GOP as a minority group "trying to save America from oppressors" helps what they're selling. Obama has been the best fundraising and ratings booster for conservative causes, ever.

 

[Bubba]

I was Just pleasantly amazed at several of the side effects happening last night. Gloating only goes so far. Like it... or not. Curiously, conservative media has been savaging the GOP today. Worse than the "main stream media". The main stream is already refocusing on the next budget battle. I don't know what this means, but I am guessing it does not bode well for the GOP. Why do I think that? Because the GOP is classically tightly messaged and focused. It leads to the idea that the GOP is about to fracture. I surely do not have a Chrystal ball to know the future though.

I am NOT sure that the 3 month deadline to the next shutdown and fiscal cliff will be averted ahead of time. There might be a replay. Why?

1) The next showdown will be over the arcane process of budgeting. For or against, most Americans have never had to deal with one past the household. The government budget is nothing like the home budget. This will muddy the water of who is right or wrong.
2) The House will be in the initial public phase of the 2014 election. They just suffered an amazing self inflicted wound. They will be moderated because of this. BUT They still feel wounded and are going to demand a scalp for it.
3) The teabaggers will not allow the GOP to moderate.
4) The GOP irrationally hates the president. The GOP has shown that they can't even say yes to their own ideas over the last 5 years. The ACA is 90% GOP ideas and they took us to the brink over it. Turning down changes to entitlement reform, the list is very long.
5) John Beohnor can not control his caucus. See comments from Beohnors facebook page above on the result of this. There were 145+ house members, and 18 senators voting to default and destroy the world economy.
6) The deal with senators is that they are subject to the majority will of the entire state. They can be voted out easier than are therefore required to be more level headed. Of the 18, 5 are up for election and or running for president, and Cruz. That leaves 12 senators from deep red states more or less. The worry of being primaried in the future is the problem for dealing for them.
7) Cruz has become the defacto leader of the House republicans.
8) Boehnor is the weakest Speaker of the House EVER. He has shown on EVERY major issue since he became speaker that he can't negotiate in good faith. His caucus won't let him. In fact, they took his negotiating powers away from him. So things have to become difficult to the point of ridiculousness before he can make a deal that sticks.

So, excuse me for being amazed at one of the most amazing political defeats of all times in US history for a night. Understand... that's what it was. It will have repercussions in the future. The GOP has been trying to impeach every DEM president since Nixon. They will really be after Obama now. It's the "payback" effect and it has been going on for 40 years now. This will lead to some type of after effect for years to come. This is not good for our democracy. Constant crisis because you view the other side of the political spectrum as less than human, socialist, communist, etc. and cannot make a deal is not good for our democracy.

The result of this, is we may have to do this every 3 months at least through 2016. The GOP deserves what just happened to them. They have been trying to torch our economy for 5 years and we have at least 3 more ahead. We would have a balanced budget right now if they would get out of the way and quit playing economic terrorist. Who knows what they are going to do when a woman gets elected next.

It would help our country, if the GOP broke up. It would mean that Americans finally made a decision how to run the country. We will still have opposition parties and I believe we would still work back to a situation where we have 2 major parties but the 2nd party would be more capable of making logical deals to operate the country and the third would waste away.

So, Bubba, I think my pony understands how difficult the future is going to be. It has no illusions or halcyon dreams of easy going peace and love. Not going to happen.

So, buck up and tell us how you see our near future developing?

^o)

I was merely pointing out that your propensity for eye-bleed red bolded (and in this case, [STRIKEOUT]compensatory[/STRIKEOUT] overly enlarged) text makes your posts easy to dismiss and unreadable.

But, hey, that's a lot of words in your response, so good for you, or something.

 

[michaelskis]

Do you think that the Government should hold the Canadian web company responsible for the healthcare.gov problems and do you think that the US overpaid for what we got?

 

[michaelskis]

I am not a fan of CBS news, but the story that 60 minutes last night looks interesting.

"60 Minutes" probes Washington's profitable leadership PACs

I have said it before and I am going to say it again. There is too much money in politics because the whole system is corrupt.

 

[JNA]

Did you see the Mallard Fillmore cartoon today ? :lmao:

http://www.arcamax.com/thefunnies/mallardfillmore/s-1408444

 

[Brocktoon]

I am not a fan of CBS news, but the story that 60 minutes last night looks interesting.

"60 Minutes" probes Washington's profitable leadership PACs

I have said it before and I am going to say it again. There is too much money in politics because the whole system is corrupt.

I don't disagree but since the court overruled close to a century of precedence and now that money is equal to speech it’s only going to get worse.

The Roberts court is one of the most activist courts in recent times...although since they are acting on conservative principles the outcry is almost none existent.

 

[imaplanner]

I don't disagree but since the court overruled close to a century of precedence and now that money is equal to speech it’s only going to get worse.

The Roberts court is one of the most activist courts in recent times...although since they are acting on conservative principles the outcry is almost none existent.

The Roberts court is posed to go way farther than citizens united now with McCutcheon v. FEC.

 

[mgk920]

I am not a fan of CBS news, but the story that 60 minutes last night looks interesting.

"60 Minutes" probes Washington's profitable leadership PACs

I have said it before and I am going to say it again. There is too much money in politics because the whole system is corrupt.

IMHO, this all started a century ago with the ratification of the 16th Amendment - Even though favors were already a hallowed tradition (ie, route the new railroad through here instead of there, hint, hint...), it really opened up the Congressional floodgates to every kind of temptation and special interest imaginable in relation to direct taxation.



Mike

 

[Hink]

It seems that Mr. Kasich has not made friends in the Republican party...

Medicaid and the Apostle Kasich
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303448104579151631504257034

Which is funny, because he has been one of the worst things for government / transparency / reform for Ohio. I liken him to Wisconsin's Mr. Scott. Great in concept, and horrible in reality. But they sure can bend the numbers to make it look like they are for "the people".

I personally think Kasich is only doing this so he can try and get independents at his next election. I don't think he is doing it out of charity as he claims.

Ugh...

 

[michaelskis]

I think this sums up the Obamacare website quite well.

 

[imaplanner]

I think this sums up the Obamacare website quite well.

Have you tried to use it?

 

[Planit]

I think this sums up the Obamacare website quite well.

Have you tried to use it?

That's pretty funny mskis. Good parody.

Have you tried?

 

[Hink]

I find Sean Hannity's calling of the hotline the last two days to be awful. He is continually putting these people who are paid to answer the phones is an extremely unfair and awkward position.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...ns-when-sean-hannity-calls-obamacare-hotline/

The concept that these people should have to deal with it because "America" hates it, or that it will expose the truth about how bad the system is really is awful. The Daily Show's grilling of the failures at least was on point. Calling the phone lines and pretending like you just want to sign up, is just sad.

It brings me joy to know that even Fox News values Hannity less. I enjoy Megyn Kelly much more, even though she doesn't know how to spell her name.

 

[giff57]

Speaking of Hannity... http://www.salon.com/2013/10/18/inside_the_fox_news_lie_machine_i_fact_checked_sean_hannity_on_obamacare/

 

[ddomin4360]

I have tried to use the website and I'll be damned if it hasn't been an awful experience.

HOWEVER, 90% of my issues are because the credit bureau they are using to identity verification (Experian) has all of my personal info screwed up. My information and my fathers information were all tied together. I had accounts on my credit report from BEFORE I WAS BORN. As a result a lot of issues have come from that. Apparently, Experian does things based on name and address (I have my father's exact same name, no Jr.) and not with Social Security numbers. So now they've gone back and are cleaning it up, but its pretty screwed up.

If I could delete my application and start from new I'd solve the issue, instead it has been a terrible experience online, in their chat, and on the phone. But for me its all been Experian's fault.

 

[michaelskis]

That's pretty funny mskis. Good parody.

Have you tried?

I don't need to try to know that there is issues. Heck, even the President had a press conference to say that there are issues.

It is like asking, how do you know Lake Superior is cold and wet. (I have tried that... and it is)

 

[Hink]

I don't need to try to know that there is issues. Heck, even the President had a press conference to say that there are issues.

It is like asking, how do you know Lake Superior is cold and wet. (I have tried that... and it is)

But you aren't on here talking about Lake Superior. And you most likely wouldn't talk about how cold and wet it was if you haven't been in it. That is the point.

 

[Planit]

I don't need to try to know that there is issues. Heck, even the President had a press conference to say that there are issues.

It is like asking, how do you know Lake Superior is cold and wet. (I have tried that... and it is)

But you aren't on here talking about Lake Superior. And you most likely wouldn't talk about how cold and wet it was if you haven't been in it. That is the point.

True, maybe I should have asked if you have stopped beating your wife...

Sarah Palin loves these types of "GOTCHA" questions.

 

[imaplanner]

So many of the states that fully implemented the ACA are doing well and its having a positive impact. If the states that refused to implement it continue to suffer under the federal exchange site, to the point where the federal effort is deemed a failure, it will be interesting to see what happens with the states that are having success. Certainly much of the federal subsidies would dissapear.

The interesting thing is that if the private-federal partnership continues to fail, it will probably make a single payer solution much more likely. If the exhanges fail, that pretty much destroys the argument for near universal coverage being possible under a private business model, and that's not a good thing from a conservative perspective.

 

[michaelskis]

But you aren't on here talking about Lake Superior. And you most likely wouldn't talk about how cold and wet it was if you haven't been in it. That is the point.

So let me ask you, is it working as it should without issues or typical bureaucratic runaround? Have you tried it?