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NEVERENDING ♾️ The NEVERENDING Political Discussion Thread

Brocktoon said:
Their have been government cover ups and manipulations in the past but this is not one of them. I find the notion that the 9/11 attacks was a government conspiracy is ridiculous advanced by the uneducated, narrow minded hatemongers on the level of the Westboro Baptist Church. In 12 years every "theory" has been disproven beyond a scientific and reasonable doubt. Those that keep saying it was a government effort only disrespect those that died that day and their families.
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Well said, Brocktoon.
 
Brocktoon said:
Clearly you are looking for reasons to find a conspiracy if these are your two "smoking guns." I get you do not trust the government but to think the 9/11 attacks were instrumented by the government is ridiculous. The focus should have been on the intelligence failures. To iamplanner's point more time has been spent on Benghazi than was spent on the 9/11 intelligence failure.
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No, not clearly. What I would like is the answers to some very troubling questions that have gone unanswered. Perhaps the "failures" in intelligence weren't failures at all. It's not like we'll ever know...
 
Mastiff said:
No, not clearly. What I would like is the answers to some very troubling questions that have gone unanswered. Perhaps the "failures" in intelligence weren't failures at all. It's not like we'll ever know...
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I don't have any questions about whether the government was behind the attacks--they weren't. It was clearly a well-planned & executed act of international terrorism. I don't believe there was any cover-up regarding the who & how of the events of 9/11.

To me, the biggest unanswered questions and possible cover-up are regarding the decision-making. You can count me as someone that certainly believes there were SOME intelligence failures, but I really think the root problem is how much of that information was simply ignored/not taken seriously at the highest levels of executive & legislative leadership. It appears we clearly knew things, but I think the President, his Cabinet and Congressional leadership knew a lot more before the attacks than they let on. They didn't let the report "go there" because it was going to be embarrassing and included both the executive branch and the legislative branch (which is why I think they half-assed their investigatory role--they would have been implicated).
 
Suburb Repairman said:
I don't have any questions about whether the government was behind the attacks--they weren't. It was clearly a well-planned & executed act of international terrorism. I don't believe there was any cover-up regarding the who & how of the events of 9/11.

To me, the biggest unanswered questions and possible cover-up are regarding the decision-making. You can count me as someone that certainly believes there were SOME intelligence failures, but I really think the root problem is how much of that information was simply ignored/not taken seriously at the highest levels of executive & legislative leadership. It appears we clearly knew things, but I think the President, his Cabinet and Congressional leadership knew a lot more before the attacks than they let on. They didn't let the report "go there" because it was going to be embarrassing and included both the executive branch and the legislative branch (which is why I think they half-assed their investigatory role--they would have been implicated).
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I agree. I don't think the government was behind the attacks. Our government is too disorganized, decentralized and competitive to pull it off. I think the cover ups happen afterwards because we got caught with our pants down. There was a tremendous amount of CYA and blame shifting that happened. Like 'burb fixer said, people simply didn't take the intel seriously and failed to act on it.
 
http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/gop-youth-vote-report-92119.html

So the funny thing to me about all these reports coming out about why the GOP is lost with young voters is that anyone could tell you this. A 95 page report? Really? It is really simple.

Issues that the GOP is losing with young people:
  • Social Issues - Gay Marriage / Women's Rights
  • Immigration
  • Demonizing Social Programs

It is simple really. Young people are libertarian when it comes to social issues - they support marriage. They support a women's right to make choices. Religion isn't their #1 determining factor of why they make decisions.

They also are more libertarian when it comes to immigration. I would guess over 50% support amnesty. Most people under 30 know an illegal immigrant or someone who has a parent that came over illegally and tried to make it here.

Those under 30 are defenders of social programs only because many were promised a lot with college, student loans, and healthcare that they were never granted. The fact that a safety net existed for the Boomers that was funded by the government is not lost on the young.

If the GOP had more libertarian Rand Paul, and less Tea Party Rand Paul they would be much better off. I don't know how many studies they need to see that the demographics do not support old white guy thinking.... :r:
 
Mastiff said:
No, not clearly. What I would like is the answers to some very troubling questions that have gone unanswered. Perhaps the "failures" in intelligence weren't failures at all. It's not like we'll ever know...
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You offered two theories of government cover-up and I clearly offered you evidence that refutes them but you persist that these questions are unanswered. The collapse of WTC 7 was throughly investigated and the supposed lucky insurance purchase was nothing more that standard operating procedure when a commercial building was purchased was closed. Clearly, the questions were answered. Your distrust of the federal government is blinding you to some overwhelming facts in both of these instances that you brought up as clear evidence of a conspiracy.
 
hilldweller said:
I just found out my best friend from college is a 9-11 truther:r:
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I recently learned that a past high school friend strongly believes that magnetic shifts are imminent (which isn't necessarily nuts) and that they will cause biblical earthquakes, floods, sea-level changes, and weather changes (there we go). Furthermore, the USA has already contructed a series of underground tubes via nuclear tunnel boring machines to build underground cities in tectonically inactive areas. Each of these cities are many thousands of feet underground and are connected by vactrains which can move at many thousands of miles per hour thanks to the vacuum/near-vacuum created within the tunnels.
 
boiker said:
I recently learned that a past high school friend strongly believes that magnetic shifts are imminent (which isn't necessarily nuts) and that they will cause biblical earthquakes, floods, sea-level changes, and weather changes (there we go). Furthermore, the USA has already contructed a series of underground tubes via nuclear tunnel boring machines to build underground cities in tectonically inactive areas. Each of these cities are many thousands of feet underground and are connected by vactrains which can move at many thousands of miles per hour thanks to the vacuum/near-vacuum created within the tunnels.
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The magnetic shifts have happened quite frequently throughout Earth's history and may very well happen again in our lifetime, but it won't cause any problems except for compasses. I've also heard that vactrains are theoretically possible.

As far as 911, I'm sympathetic to the view that it is possible (though I won't believe it without serious evidence) that certain individuals may have had knowledge of the attacks and let them happen in order to mobilize the political will towards very profitable military activities. I don't think this is the case, but recently unclassified papers from our history show that military and civilian leaders have actually considered such things in the past so I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that it could have happened. But unlike my friends and family who seem to be watching too much fox news, unsupported allegations based on barely existant circumstantial evidence does not carry much weight with me.
 
imaplanner said:
The magnetic shifts have happened quite frequently throughout Earth's history and may very well happen again in our lifetime, but it won't cause any problems except for compasses. I've also heard that vactrains are theoretically possible.
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Don't forget that birds use magentic fields to navigate Those poor bird will fly farther north for the winter.

.
As far as 911, I'm sympathetic to the view that it is possible (though I won't believe it without serious evidence) that certain individuals may have had knowledge of the attacks and let them happen in order to mobilize the political will towards very profitable military activities. I don't think this is the case, but recently unclassified papers from our history show that military and civilian leaders have actually considered such things in the past so I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that it could have happened. But unlike my friends and family who seem to be watching too much fox news, unsupported allegations based on barely existant circumstantial evidence does not carry much weight with me.
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If the feds did know the attack was coming and wanted it to happen so they have the political will towards very profitable military activities why not allow the first attack to happen and thwart the 2nd, 3rd and 4th attacks or even the last two instead of looking like a bunch of idiots running around with the VP hiding in an undisclosed location, the President finish reading "My Pet Goat" after being informed of the attack and have NYC move its rapid response control room out of WTC 7? The ATC had no idea what was going on since the system is based upon planes having working and activated transponders. You still get the tragedy but at least you look capable and able to defend the country. For this reason alone I do not buy the "we let them attack us" theory.

Plus as we saw in Iraq we did not need a credible reason to invade and start a military escapade that cost thousands of American lives and cost over a trillion dollars because a third rate dictator who did not even have operational control of his country might have weapons of mass destruction from 1988 and he might use them even when the intelligence was shaky at best and he had not used these weapons since 1986.
 
Whatever happened to trustworthy news casters? Today they all seem to just tell half the story and make inflamtory comments to rile up their fans. How can these guys win awards when they know there's an idiot out there that takes the half truth and believes it whole heartedly. On the other side, what the hell is wrong with the public that they don't see these guys for what they are, entertainers, not newsmen.
 
Brocktoon said:
The collapse of WTC 7 was throughly investigated and the supposed lucky insurance purchase was nothing more that standard operating procedure when a commercial building was purchased was closed. Clearly, the questions were answered. Your distrust of the federal government is blinding you to some overwhelming facts in both of these instances that you brought up as clear evidence of a conspiracy.
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Investigated "thoroughly" by a government agency... Yeah, I believe what they say. :r:

I don't think the facts are overwhelming, and I think things remain unanswered and always will. My distrust of the federal government is well founded, and you should have the same distrust. They lie. They lie all the time. They cover things up, and even when caught red-handed, they still continue the lie. In this case, the president signed the bill into law that created the 9/11 Commission, then refused to testify in front of them under oath! Cheney? Same deal...

Face it, our federal government has been corrupt the entire time most of us have been alive, and they just keeps getting sleazier. I won't put it past the ball washing bastards to allow US citizens to die to make them richer. If you think differently, explain it to those who lost loved ones in Iraq. So yeah, I'll listen to the "crazies" who have alternative theories than those set forth by those who screw us more and more every day.

/rant
 
Suburb Repairman said:
I don't have any questions about whether the government was behind the attacks--they weren't. It was clearly a well-planned & executed act of international terrorism. I don't believe there was any cover-up regarding the who & how of the events of 9/11.

To me, the biggest unanswered questions and possible cover-up are regarding the decision-making. You can count me as someone that certainly believes there were SOME intelligence failures, but I really think the root problem is how much of that information was simply ignored/not taken seriously at the highest levels of executive & legislative leadership. It appears we clearly knew things, but I think the President, his Cabinet and Congressional leadership knew a lot more before the attacks than they let on. They didn't let the report "go there" because it was going to be embarrassing and included both the executive branch and the legislative branch (which is why I think they half-assed their investigatory role--they would have been implicated).
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Whose Yur Planner said:
I agree. I don't think the government was behind the attacks. Our government is too disorganized, decentralized and competitive to pull it off. I think the cover ups happen afterwards because we got caught with our pants down. There was a tremendous amount of CYA and blame shifting that happened. Like 'burb fixer said, people simply didn't take the intel seriously and failed to act on it.
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Repairman and Planner are dead-on IMO. The dudes paid to connect the dots either didn't connect them, or, if they did and reported their findings, people higher up the food chain dismissed the findings. In fact, I think one of the terrorists took take a flight course in the Midwest and the instructor reported him to the local FBI office because he thought the guy was odd because he wasn't too interested in learning to land. When that was report was sent up the chain of authority, it was ignored.

Too often what at first glance looks to be some kind of evil is usually really just a mistake or sometimes a chain mistakes or delays. It's like the US Navy intercepting a Japanese coded message in December, 1941, and taking a while to send it on to Washington where it got shuffled around before finally be decoded about the time the bombs started falling on Pearl Harbor.

Brocktoon said:
If the feds did know the attack was coming and wanted it to happen so they have the political will towards very profitable military activities why not allow the first attack to happen and thwart the 2nd, 3rd and 4th attacks or even the last two instead of looking like a bunch of idiots running around with the VP hiding in an undisclosed location, the President finish reading "My Pet Goat" after being informed of the attack and have NYC move its rapid response control room out of WTC 7? The ATC had no idea what was going on since the system is based upon planes having working and activated transponders. You still get the tragedy but at least you look capable and able to defend the country. For this reason alone I do not buy the "we let them attack us" theory.

Plus as we saw in Iraq we did not need a credible reason to invade and start a military escapade that cost thousands of American lives and cost over a trillion dollars because a third rate dictator who did not even have operational control of his country might have weapons of mass destruction from 1988 and he might use them even when the intelligence was shaky at best and he had not used these weapons since 1986.
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I think you are absolutely right. They only needed to have 1 plane to damage something. In the supposed incident in the Gulf of Tonkin that was the excuse for escalating the fighting in Vietnam, there was minimal damage to the US naval vessels.

dvdneal said:
Whatever happened to trustworthy news casters? Today they all seem to just tell half the story and make inflamtory comments to rile up their fans. How can these guys win awards when they know there's an idiot out there that takes the half truth and believes it whole heartedly. On the other side, what the hell is wrong with the public that they don't see these guys for what they are, entertainers, not newsmen.
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I don't think newscasters were truly any more "trustworthy" in the "good old days" than they are today. I think we just didn't have alternative sources of information to know that there was more to the story than we were being told. Franklin Roosevelt was dying when he ran for POTUS in 1944. He looked sick. In the era before television, the only way people would know something might be wrong with him was if they were told by the press, and they weren't. John Kennedy's philandering while POTUS was a serious security issue that was covered up NOT just by the White House but by reporters who looked the other way. Ronald Reagan was being overcome by Alzheimer's while in his second term, and at least some in the Washington press corps knew something was wrong but nobody spoke up.

Mastiff said:
Investigated "thoroughly" by a government agency... Yeah, I believe what they say. :r:

I don't think the facts are overwhelming, and I think things remain unanswered and always will. My distrust of the federal government is well founded, and you should have the same distrust. They lie. They lie all the time. They cover things up, and even when caught red-handed, they still continue the lie. In this case, the president signed the bill into law that created the 9/11 Commission, then refused to testify in front of them under oath! Cheney? Same deal...

Face it, our federal government has been corrupt the entire time most of us have been alive, and they just keeps getting sleazier. I won't put it past the ball washing bastards to allow US citizens to die to make them richer. If you think differently, explain it to those who lost loved ones in Iraq. So yeah, I'll listen to the "crazies" who have alternative theories than those set forth by those who screw us more and more every day.

/rant
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Successful politicians have always lied. This isn't something new. They tell their constituents whatever it is that they want to hear. They make promises they can't keep. They try to buy support with favors if NOT outright bribes. Their henchmen try to cover their bosses' butts and their own. That kind of behavior, in the British world, goes back at least to Stephen of Blois, who ruled England between Henry I and Henry II. Read some political history from the America's Gilded Age when wealthy industrialists or important sectors of the economy (ie, "the railroads") literally "owned" the US Senate as well as many state governments.
 
Mastiff said:
Investigated "thoroughly" by a government agency... Yeah, I believe what they say. :r:

I don't think the facts are overwhelming, and I think things remain unanswered and always will. My distrust of the federal government is well founded, and you should have the same distrust. They lie. They lie all the time. They cover things up, and even when caught red-handed, they still continue the lie. In this case, the president signed the bill into law that created the 9/11 Commission, then refused to testify in front of them under oath! Cheney? Same deal...

Face it, our federal government has been corrupt the entire time most of us have been alive, and they just keeps getting sleazier. I won't put it past the ball washing bastards to allow US citizens to die to make them richer. If you think differently, explain it to those who lost loved ones in Iraq. So yeah, I'll listen to the "crazies" who have alternative theories than those set forth by those who screw us more and more every day.

/rant
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Again what questions remain unanswered? Again the two questions you raised have been clearly investigated and your ridiculous statements have been dis-proven but you keep saying their is not proof when their clearly is. I get it you hate the Feds but that is no reason to shit on the families who loved ones died that day by wrongly insisting that Federal government was responsible and covered up the attacks.

The President and VP did testify in from of the commission. It was limited but they did testify.

I am not defending the Feds on every instance but your hatred has blinded you on the FACTS of the 9/11 attacks. If you truly believe the Feds that bad then how can you look at the investigation objectively?
 
dvdneal said:
Whatever happened to trustworthy news casters? Today they all seem to just tell half the story and make inflamtory comments to rile up their fans. How can these guys win awards when they know there's an idiot out there that takes the half truth and believes it whole heartedly. On the other side, what the hell is wrong with the public that they don't see these guys for what they are, entertainers, not newsmen.
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I don't have any answers for you, but it is certainly something that depresses me about this country. Probably more than anything else this is my biggest issue with our society at the moment, facts are no longer relevant to the national discourse at all, not even remotely.

I also feel the need to support Mastiff a bit. I get the sense that he is pretty much just saying that we don't know the whole story about what happened and what we knew and when we knew it. I think the evidence is pretty clear that those questions are still unanswered. Acknowledging the fact that there are serious questions, many serious questions that have never been answered doesn't equal shitting on the victims. How quickly we all forget little facts like the Taliban offering to turn over Bin Laden for trial (both before and after 911) and us refusing and instead invading with the supposed goal of getting him. What was that about? None of that means we were behind the attacks (I still think that's crazy talk) but it's pretty obvious IMO that there were some very serious government sheenanigans surrounding the days before and months after.
 
Brocktoon said:
Again what questions remain unanswered? Again the two questions you raised have been clearly investigated and your ridiculous statements have been dis-proven but you keep saying their is not proof when their clearly is. I get it you hate the Feds but that is no reason to shit on the families who loved ones died that day by wrongly insisting that Federal government was responsible and covered up the attacks.

The President and VP did testify in from of the commission. It was limited but they did testify.

I am not defending the Feds on every instance but your hatred has blinded you on the FACTS of the 9/11 attacks. If you truly believe the Feds that bad then how can you look at the investigation objectively?
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I'm not going to start listing everything I think is fishy, just so you can tell me that government agency "clearly" investigated it and put it to bed. The JFK assassination was "clearly" investigated by the Warren Commission that came up with conclusions that defied the laws of physics. I don't think asking questions and digging for the truth, even if it turns out there was no nefarious players but the terrorists, is shitting on anyone! I hold the opposite opinion, that if there are others to be held accountable, trying to seek them out is justice.

George and Dick spoke about what they wanted to speak about... and even that wasn't under oath. That's not testimony, it's a campfire story... I bet they made smores.

I'm not claiming to be objective, but if you refuse to consider alternative scenarios and players, you aren't either. We might as well drop it, as we're many posts in, and we don't seem to be swaying one anothers opinion.

imaplanner said:
I also feel the need to support Mastiff a bit. I get the sense that he is pretty much just saying that we don't know the whole story about what happened and what we knew and when we knew it. I think the evidence is pretty clear that those questions are still unanswered. Acknowledging the fact that there are serious questions, many serious questions that have never been answered doesn't equal shitting on the victims. How quickly we all forget little facts like the Taliban offering to turn over Bin Laden for trial (both before and after 911) and us refusing and instead invading with the supposed goal of getting him. What was that about? None of that means we were behind the attacks (I still think that's crazy talk) but it's pretty obvious IMO that there were some very serious government sheenanigans surrounding the days before and months after.
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Thanks, that pretty much sums up my thoughts. I'm not saying I know, I'm saying the general public does not know...
 
first time psoter in here - kevlar on

it's funny with this NSA leak - if Bush was President, this guy would be seen as a traitor (hence the Why do you hate America stuff that went on before and during the war in Iraq) but under Obama, he's a hero whistleblower who needs protection?

I agree we need a debate on privacy issues because it's getting creepy for certain but the harsh reality is as citizens, we don't get to know everything that's being done in our government - and people need to see the hypocrisy of it all
 
imaplanner said:
I don't have any answers for you, but it is certainly something that depresses me about this country. Probably more than anything else this is my biggest issue with our society at the moment, facts are no longer relevant to the national discourse at all, not even remotely.

I also feel the need to support Mastiff a bit. I get the sense that he is pretty much just saying that we don't know the whole story about what happened and what we knew and when we knew it. I think the evidence is pretty clear that those questions are still unanswered. Acknowledging the fact that there are serious questions, many serious questions that have never been answered doesn't equal shitting on the victims. How quickly we all forget little facts like the Taliban offering to turn over Bin Laden for trial (both before and after 911) and us refusing and instead invading with the supposed goal of getting him. What was that about? None of that means we were behind the attacks (I still think that's crazy talk) but it's pretty obvious IMO that there were some very serious government sheenanigans surrounding the days before and months after.
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Maybe I'm a dreamer, I just wish facts were represented as the entire story, sounds like what Mastiff is looking for. I look at this IRS thing and think someone said stop and check this out. It might not be the president, but someone knows what's going on. I'm not saying right or wrong, just that the whole truth is not out there.

luckless pedestrian said:
it's funny with this NSA leak - if Bush was President, this guy would be seen as a traitor (hence the Why do you hate America stuff that went on before and during the war in Iraq) but under Obama, he's a hero whistleblower who needs protection?

I agree we need a debate on privacy issues because it's getting creepy for certain but the harsh reality is as citizens, we don't get to know everything that's being done in our government - and people need to see the hypocrisy of it all
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I keep laughing at the NSA leak, we must all condemn the president because he's a democrat and is invading our privacy. Let's all ignore the republican president who authorized the whole thing.
 
Well the Daily Show just got more material...

Guess who's back at Fox?
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/06/13/guess-whos-back-at-fox/?hpt=hp_t3

I still can't understand why anyone keeps giving her chances.... even Fox made a good choice to "part ways" after the election. Maybe they are trying to make a bet that the Tea Party will matter in the 2014 elections? Doubtful, but maybe they were asking Karl Rove. ;)
 
Hink said:
Well the Daily Show just got more material...

Guess who's back at Fox?
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/06/13/guess-whos-back-at-fox/?hpt=hp_t3

I still can't understand why anyone keeps giving her chances.... even Fox made a good choice to "part ways" after the election. Maybe they are trying to make a bet that the Tea Party will matter in the 2014 elections? Doubtful, but maybe they were asking Karl Rove. ;)
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The Tea Party types threw a huge hissy when she was pulled and the network made a brief attempt to turn towards informative news. It's interesting how Fox created this monster of rabid no nothings and have been unable to control it. Not to mention the huge money-making machine that drives the no-nothing outrage.

It's kind of poetic how the same rabid no-nothing base that enabled and initially supported the NSA overeach is now gearing up to fight the liberal fight against it, simply because of the visceral hatred for Obama.

Also on the topic of the NSA and this thread, particularly the 911 discussion. If Mastiff and I disappear suddenly, call the ACLU!
 
TWA Flight 800 crash wasn't due to gas tank explosion, former investigators claim

The gub'mint lied to us?! Say it isn't so! :-c
 
Hink said:
Well the Daily Show just got more material...

Guess who's back at Fox?
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/06/13/guess-whos-back-at-fox/?hpt=hp_t3

I still can't understand why anyone keeps giving her chances.... even Fox made a good choice to "part ways" after the election. Maybe they are trying to make a bet that the Tea Party will matter in the 2014 elections? Doubtful, but maybe they were asking Karl Rove. ;)
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But we can all just ignore her. We have that option!
 
Mastiff said:
I don't put a whole lot of stock in a "journalism watchdog" that goes unnamed, in an article with no byline.
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Neither do I unless it's well sourced, as this one is. You could read the linked to court declarations from a former FBI chief and former congressman who sat on the 911 commission if you were interested.
 
OK.....

TWA Flight 800

If it was brought down by a missle, wouldn't the terrorist group want to claim it and dispel the "accident" story in order to foster terrorism??? Why didn't they claim the attack, if it was an attack?

If it was done by a missle, why hasn't it been done again since then, and if it was done again since then (Kenyan Coast incident failure) why wasn't the first attack claimed?

If a terrorist group found a successful method of firing missles into planes, you can bet your house they would keep doing it until it couldn't be done anymore and they would want to claim it (pre-9/11)

I can see why a terrorist group might not want to claim attacks after 9/11.......because the US will find and kill them NO MATTER WHERE THEY LIVE.

It wasn't terrorists.

If it was the US Navy, some grunt would have let everyone know a missle was fired from some ship somewhere at about the same time.....
It wasn't the Navy

I would suggest that someone in the CLOWN CAR called journalism investigate the background of each and every passenger to determine if there might have been someone on the plane that needed to "go away."

If not, then it was an accident.
 
The NTSB investigator that has been the leader in bringing this back up was a highways specialist. I'm skeptical of whatever professional experience he has to be persuasive, given that. The other so-called experts happen to be on the payrolls of the air pilots and flight attendants unions. And, the timing is to promote a documentary film and "no news is not good news" when you are trying to sell ducats.

Second, I just re-read the TWA800 CVR transcript. The flight was experiencing some irregularities with it's fuel tank trim, and the pilot mentions that several times. Moments before the tape ends, the plane had been held at FL one three thousand because of traffic in the vicinity, and then was released up to FL one five thousand with an expedited climb through to FL 35,000. Thus, there were other planes around that didn't see a missile, and new thrust was being applied to the engines, presumably calling for additional fuel when the pilot had previously noted some fuel anomaly.

The complexity of a coverup with SO many players is impossible. I'm especially sorry for the family and friends of those victims that have to deal with their grief all over again so some filmmakers can make a profit.
 
Gedunker said:
The NTSB investigator that has been the leader in bringing this back up was a highways specialist. I'm skeptical of whatever professional experience he has to be persuasive, given that. The other so-called experts happen to be on the payrolls of the air pilots and flight attendants unions. And, the timing is to promote a documentary film and "no news is not good news" when you are trying to sell ducats.

Second, I just re-read the TWA800 CVR transcript. The flight was experiencing some irregularities with it's fuel tank trim, and the pilot mentions that several times. Moments before the tape ends, the plane had been held at FL one three thousand because of traffic in the vicinity, and then was released up to FL one five thousand with an expedited climb through to FL 35,000. Thus, there were other planes around that didn't see a missile, and new thrust was being applied to the engines, presumably calling for additional fuel when the pilot had previously noted some fuel anomaly.

The complexity of a coverup with SO many players is impossible. I'm especially sorry for the family and friends of those victims that have to deal with their grief all over again so some filmmakers can make a profit.
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As I recall, they fixed the problem in other planes so it wouldn't happen again.
 
The One said:
TWA Flight 800

If it was brought down by a missle, wouldn't the terrorist group want to claim it and dispel the "accident" story in order to foster terrorism??? Why didn't they claim the attack, if it was an attack?

If it was done by a missle, why hasn't it been done again since then, and if it was done again since then (Kenyan Coast incident failure) why wasn't the first attack claimed?

If a terrorist group found a successful method of firing missles into planes, you can bet your house they would keep doing it until it couldn't be done anymore and they would want to claim it (pre-9/11)

I can see why a terrorist group might not want to claim attacks after 9/11.......because the US will find and kill them NO MATTER WHERE THEY LIVE.

It wasn't terrorists.

If it was the US Navy, some grunt would have let everyone know a missle was fired from some ship somewhere at about the same time.....
It wasn't the Navy

I would suggest that someone in the CLOWN CAR called journalism investigate the background of each and every passenger to determine if there might have been someone on the plane that needed to "go away."

If not, then it was an accident.
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You didn't rule out the possibility of a "lone wolf" with a shoulder-fired missle.
 
Hink said:
This is the future of the GOP in my opinion...http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/26/world/asia/australia-leadership-vote/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

A fractured group who pushes out their own people for one reason or another. Although I think leadership has been weak on both sides, the GOP is really doing a poor job managing their base. Ted Cruz, etc aren't helping.
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I'm very interested to see if the very obvious disenfranchisement of minority and poor Americans will pay dividends for them or come back to bite them even more.

And that's all I will say on this issue. I'm so fed up with this crap.
 
hilldweller said:
You didn't rule out the possibility of a "lone wolf" with a shoulder-fired missle.
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Most of those are heat seeking missiles and they would have hit one of the engines and not the center fuel tank. Plus the effeective range of most shoulder fired missiles are only a few miles and TWA 800 was too far out. From the wreckage it was clear that it was not a missile of any type. If it was a Navy fired sea to air missile then they would have found much less of the aircraft then they did.
 
Brocktoon said:
Most of those are heat seeking missiles and they would have hit one of the engines and not the center fuel tank. Plus the effeective range of most shoulder fired missiles are only a few miles and TWA 800 was too far out. From the wreckage it was clear that it was not a missile of any type. If it was a Navy fired sea to air missile then they would have found much less of the aircraft then they did.
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Then there's only one possibility: UFO attack.8-!
 
The Tea Party doesn't disappoint. I'll give them that.

Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.), an outspoken tea party member, echoed Huelskamp (who is proposing a Constitutional amendment in favor of one man/one woman).

"Marriage was created by the hand of God. No man, not even a Supreme Court, can undo what a holy God has instituted," Bachmann said. "What the court has done will undermine the best interest of children and the best interests of the United States."
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WaPo story link

Also, Sen Dandy Randy Paul, K(TP) said bestiality might be next. He walked back those comments, but he'll never hear the end of it.

Personally, I hope they try to amend the Constitution over same sex marriage. A chance to show them how utterly insignificant they really are.
 
Brocktoon said:
According to Justice Roberts racism no longer exists in America...just ask Puala Deen.
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Or watch Big Brother....:r: Two pretty white girls... Texas and NYC? Pretty interesting places for racism / bigotry to live... :not:
 
Hink said:
Or watch Big Brother....:r: Two pretty white girls... Texas and NYC? Pretty interesting places for racism / bigotry to live... :not:
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Uh no...Big Brother is not approved TV watching material in the Toon household. I would rather watch Justice Ginsberg and Justice Kennedy wrestle in mayo wearing nothing but their underwear.
 
Brocktoon said:
...watch Justice Ginsberg and Justice Kennedy wrestle in mayo wearing nothing but their underwear.
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I paid the $49.95 to watch that Pay Per View contest and I was disappointed that after 24 seconds it was called in a 5-4 vote for Ginsberg. I guess karma is a bitch, Kennedy....
 
Hink said:
Or watch Big Brother....:r: Two pretty white girls... Texas and NYC? Pretty interesting places for racism / bigotry to live... :not:
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Sorry to say that the Texas one is from my alma mater. We've been lamenting that fact on a sports forum I'm on--that we wish she'd stop wearing Texas State University clothing. Apparently she was wearing a University of Texas sports bra the other day--hopefully that becomes a trend. She also lost her supposed modeling contract (shocked she had one--her looks are barely average for a Texas State co-ed).
 
Sure would be nice if the Nuge were to run for President in 2016. He would definitely get my vote *




* (in the GOP primaries)
 
Wah wah, I am not getting my way... I want to take my ball and secede....

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/news/northern-colorado-wants-secede-colorado-174432609.html

Geez. Come on people. Move then. There are tons of things that I am ashamed of in my State. You either get over it, or you move. This seceding junk is weak sauce and comes off and whiny.

It is stuff like this that makes be believe Ted Nugent could run for R office and get to the general election.....:-o
 
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