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NEVERENDING ♾️ The NEVERENDING Political Discussion Thread

Milton said it as well.

Got it. You don't know what Shelley was lamenting in the piece.

Didn't the website that liked those lines so much include the passage immediately preceding? If not, why not, one wonders? Would it complicate the simplistic message???
 
I predict a train wreck coming.

[ot]10.....9.....8.....tick tick tick tick.....[/ot]
Moderator note:

I like that we can bring illustrious names like Shelley and Milton into this, but um, we're kinda not talking about gun laws at the moment
 
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Got it. You don't know what Shelley was lamenting in the piece.

Didn't the website that liked those lines so much include the passage immediately preceding? If not, why not, one wonders? Would it complicate the simplistic message???
Powerpoint of powerpoints, all is powerpoint.
 
I like guns, yes I do
I like guns, how bout you?
If you don't I don't care
I'll pull down your underwear*



*And then possibly shoot you in the butt!
 
Gun laws only hinder and burden law abiding individuals who are already following the current gun laws.
People who commit mass murders would have found ways around the law or have ignored past laws.
This issue is one that needs in depth study not non-knee jerk reaction.
Finally, I think someone on the radio hit on something this week, munitions sales should be addressed not gun ownership. Thereby you keep the 2nd amendment intact but you limit the large quantity sale of munitions (the kid in CO had over 6,000 rounds on him and thousands more in his apartment all via mail order).
 
People who commit mass murders would have found ways around the law or have ignored past laws.
.

Are you asserting that if gun makers were not allowed to make assault rifles and 100-round clips that mass murderers would have...what? Made their own assault rifle?!?

NRA talking points notwithstanding, we are a violent society. And our country is flooded with guns. It is too late for repeal. Surely sane people can agree that you shouldn't be able to purchase a thousand rounds as easily as a Taylor Swift song (the song probably having more laws restricting sales, actually). And if you purchase Kevlar and tear gas and a thousand rounds in a short time, that should raise a flag (and not 'Don't tread on me). Businesses whining about burdens should be taken to a mass shooting.
 
One of my in-laws has relevant experience, training Afghans to fight terrorism. Any Army that attacks women and children surrounding their fighting men ultimately loses that war. They find that their individual soldiers on leave are being killed by local girls, poisoned by bartenders, etc. So, they hunker down in bases, give up the outlying areas, and soon find that they no longer control the territory. The people begin laughing at them for not being willing to go one-on-one, or come out of their hidey-holes. They end up withdrawing.

As does one of mine.

But the point that was made was that if it wanted to supress its own civilians, the American military would have no problem doing so, regardless of the weapons that were held.

I'm not talking about nation-building.
 
Are you asserting that if gun makers were not allowed to make assault rifles and 100-round clips that mass murderers would have...what? Made their own assault rifle?!?

The AK 47 has been around since 1949 and almost unchanged. It is a favorite of African warlords and street gangs worldwide because it is a very simple gun and pieces and parts are around in huge quantities. Even if we stopped the production of semi and fully automatic guns there are enough assault style weapons in the pawn shops, craigslist, and ebay world to arm the next several generations of dangerous minds. However, a gun without ammo is just a piece of metal.
 
Moderator note:

'Gun laws' merged into neverending political thread. Carry on.
 
I strongly support!

bear arms.jpg
 
I agree a real issue/lesson from the CO shooting is that there needs to be some sort of limit on the amount of ammo a person can buy. With all of the computers in the world now, you would think it would be very easy to at least flag when someone has purchased thousands of rounds of ammo over a short period of time. Unless you are a gun/ammo salesman there is nothing good that can come from buying thousands of rounds of ammo in a short period of time. I also think there is no reason that someone needs an assault rifle, last time I checked someone isn't using their assault rifle to go hunting.

Overall I support the 2nd Amemdment with some common sense limitations. I find it interesting that we regulate cars more than we regulate guns in this country; in the wrong hands both are deadly.
 
I agree a real issue/lesson from the CO shooting is that there needs to be some sort of limit on the amount of ammo a person can buy. With all of the computers in the world now, you would think it would be very easy to at least flag when someone has purchased thousands of rounds of ammo over a short period of time. Unless you are a gun/ammo salesman there is nothing good that can come from buying thousands of rounds of ammo in a short period of time. I also think there is no reason that someone needs an assault rifle, last time I checked someone isn't using their assault rifle to go hunting.

Overall I support the 2nd Amemdment with some common sense limitations. I find it interesting that we regulate cars more than we regulate guns in this country; in the wrong hands both are deadly.

It's easier to buy large quantities of bullets than it is to buy large quantities of cold medicine with amphetamine.
 
It's easier to buy large quantities of bullets than it is to buy large quantities of cold medicine with amphetamine.

Ding ding ding... that is exactly right. I have to ask for cold medicine behind the counter like I am buying some illicit drug, yet I can walk into any sporting goods store and buy them out of all their ammo. A gun is a weapon, it is meant to do harm, cold medicine is meant to help people feel better yet I can't buy medicine without jumping through hoops because of of the remote possibility that someone may cook up some meth. The irony is so mind boggling. :-o
 
As does one of mine.

But the point that was made was that if it wanted to supress its own civilians, the American military would have no problem doing so, regardless of the weapons that were held.

I'm not talking about nation-building.
I think they'd control the ground for 6 weeks, and then would find their losses when not en masse so huge they retreat to base, and that would be the end of it. New Republic.
 
I think they'd control the ground for 6 weeks, and then would find their losses when not en masse so huge they retreat to base, and that would be the end of it. New Republic.

Except for the air superiority and those drone things.

Are you drunk?
 
[ot]10.....9.....8.....tick tick tick tick.....[/ot]
Moderator note:

I like that we can bring illustrious names like Shelley and Milton into this, but um, we're kinda not talking about gun laws at the moment

How did Shelley Winters and Milton Berle get brought into this anyway?
 
Ok, no none "needs" an assault rifle. The military does not use 100 round magazines, so again, not needed. I'll bet you cannot find a case where a lone shooter actually shot 1000 rounds of ammo. So what does a notification or a limit on ammo do? If I am a determined murderer, and I can only by 100 rounds a month I'll hoard, it for as many months as I need to get what I need. You can only carry so much. If the CO shooter did not have access to guns he could have just blown the place up, that would have killed and injured more people.

You can't legislate against crazy. Nut jobs intent on mass murder will find a way, guns or not, 100 rounds of ammo or 10,000 rounds. The whole idea of reactionary legislation is beyond stupid and always creates bad law. People will kill people.

If we were serious about preventing some of these cases, we would actually take care of of our mentally ill. The US does a horrible job of diagnosing and treating the mentally ill.
 
I was a frequent patron of Chick-Fil-A when I lived in NC but anybody who is honestly surprised by the owner's views must never have actually set foot in one of their establishments. Not only are they not open on Sundays, but they have Bible verses on the walls and stories about the founder's faith printed on the paper place mats. He was never really hiding his views before any of this anyway.

I have never heard of a substantiated claim of discrimination regarding Chick-Fil-A so I really don't care that the owner gives his money to organizations I might not agree with. If politicians in Chicago and Boston are really that steadfast in their opposition to Chick-Fil-A because of their views towards the LGBT community, are these cities also going to stop the Catholic church from opening up new parishes in the city?
And yet Chicago's Mayor Rahm Emanuel (the 'Rahmfather™') is cozying right up to someone (Louis Farrakhan) who adheres to a religion that not only opposes anything dealing with homosexuality, but includes, in varying parts of the World, some major sects that are very violently opposed to it, indeed.

Makes one wonder, doesn't it?

Mike
 
If we were serious about preventing some of these cases, we would actually take care of of our mentally ill. The US does a horrible job of diagnosing and treating the mentally ill.

And there's your winner in getting to the root of a problem. :science:
 
I have to admit

And yet Chicago's Mayor Rahm Emanuel (the 'Rahmfather™') is cozying right up to someone (Louis Farrakhan) who adheres to a religion that not only opposes anything dealing with homosexuality, but includes, in varying parts of the World, some major sects that are very violently opposed to it, indeed.

Makes one wonder, doesn't it?

Mike

this post does make me wonder.
 
And yet Chicago's Mayor Rahm Emanuel (the 'Rahmfather™') is cozying right up to someone (Louis Farrakhan) who adheres to a religion that not only opposes anything dealing with homosexuality, but includes, in varying parts of the World, some major sects that are very violently opposed to it, indeed.

Makes one wonder, doesn't it?

Mike

Only if you listen to right-wing radio. Others see a Mayor trying to do what he can do combat crime.
 
Ok, no none "needs" an assault rifle. The military does not use 100 round magazines, so again, not needed. I'll bet you cannot find a case where a lone shooter actually shot 1000 rounds of ammo. So what does a notification or a limit on ammo do? If I am a determined murderer, and I can only by 100 rounds a month I'll hoard, it for as many months as I need to get what I need. You can only carry so much. If the CO shooter did not have access to guns he could have just blown the place up, that would have killed and injured more people.

You can't legislate against crazy. Nut jobs intent on mass murder will find a way, guns or not, 100 rounds of ammo or 10,000 rounds. The whole idea of reactionary legislation is beyond stupid and always creates bad law. People will kill people.

If we were serious about preventing some of these cases, we would actually take care of of our mentally ill. The US does a horrible job of diagnosing and treating the mentally ill.

And a still worse job of reporting them to others and removing them from dangerous situations.

Except for the air superiority and those drone things.

Are you drunk?
They're a great success at controlling the ground in Afghanistan. Don't you go there drunk and think you're on the winning side.
 
And a still worse job of reporting them to others and removing them from dangerous situations.


They're a great success at controlling the ground in Afghanistan. Don't you go there drunk and think you're on the winning side.

Comparing Afghanistan and the United States mainland is asinine.

In case you weren't aware, we're not trying to control the ground there.
 
They're a great success at controlling the ground in Afghanistan. Don't you go there drunk and think you're on the winning side.
It's not the guns that are keeping US forces at bay but rather the explosives that the Taliban have access to. A combination of IEDs and heavier American vehicles means the US doesn't have ground access to places they once did. Then when you don't have ground control, those old CIA supplied Stinger missiles become more of a threat to helicopters that were already hampered by the hazardous terrain and elevations. So it boils down to the fact the Taliban has successfully limited American access to much of the country which would be extremely difficult to do in the US.

The conditions in the US and Afghanistan are entirely different, so it's like comparing apples to oranges. The people of Afghanistan have been harden by centuries of warfare while Americans just love guns. I really doubt Americans have what it takes to mount an effective asymmetrical war on their own soil. They may have the guns and ammo but they lack the ability to be self-sufficient like Afghanis. Most Americans would be in real trouble without access to food, water, electricity, and gasoline provided by our transportation network. Plus there's very limited access to the ordnance necessary to successfully combat an army.
 
So the genius assbags here in Texas just nominated Ted Cruz, Tea Party dandy, for the Senate seat being vacated by Hutchison. While I was not a fan of Dewhurst, he at least understood compromise and was capable of being a statesman--I can handle conservative as long as they have statesmanlike qualities and are capable of compromise (same expectation I have for a Democrat). Cruz is not capable of either of those things. For those of you that don't know, securing the GOP nomination for the Senate seat practically guarantees that he'll win the office since the Texas Democratic Party is incapable of putting forward a candidate with any type of statewide name recognition or appeal.

Ted Cruz will make Jim Inhofe from Oklahoma look like a moderate. Ted Cruz is brought to you by the same Texas republicans who gave us this frightening sentence as part of their official party platform: "We oppose the teaching if Higher Order Thinking Skills, critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome Based Education which focuses on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student's fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority."
 
So the genius assbags here in Texas just nominated Ted Cruz, Tea Party dandy, for the Senate seat being vacated by Hutchison. "

These Tea Party folks are going to continue to get elected and then one day people are going to wake up and wonder where all of their government services went.
 
These Tea Party folks are going to continue to get elected and then one day people are going to wake up and wonder where all of their government services went.

I don't see the support very high anymore in Ohio. Most of the tea party candidates are grasping at relevance locally, and statewide their candidate for State Senate isn't doing as well as the R's had hoped.

As SR said, it really doesn't matter that it was a tea party member or not, a Republican is going to win in Texas either way. In states where the D's aren't completely useless the tea party is losing traction more and more. The argument for fiscal responsibility is becoming hollow as they fight to save the defense budget and large corporate subsidies all the while deriding spending $200k on research on future technologies, education, etc.
 
Yesterday was primary day for state and local races here in Georgia. The big statewide issue was a vote on regional SPLOSTs to fund transportation improvements, which failed in spectacular fashion - 9 of the state's 12 regions rejected it. The metro Atlanta vote went 63% against, 37% in favor. The local press is painting the defeat of the SPLOST here in the metro area as a Tea Party victory...there was Tea Party opposition, but the huge margin of the overall defeat, combined with the fact that it failed in all 10 metro counties (some of which are fairly blue), suggests that opposition was much more widespread than just the Tea Party folks. Personally, I place most of the blame at the feet of the SPLOST supporters, who sunk millions of dollars into what was possibly the worst political ad campaign of all time....it was like watching a massive train wreck unfold in slow motion over a two-month period. At no point did the supporters make an effort to actually try and educate voters on exactly how a regional approach to improving transportation, including heavy support for transit, would improve the overall traffic situation here in the ATL. None of their literature contained contact information for more information, and the overall theme of their campaign was basically "vote for this and everything will be magically better - you're welcome!" And, when polling a week in advance of the vote showed that the measure was probably going to crash-and-burn, their response was a TV ad invoking the ghost of Ronald Reagan ("hey - look - the Gipper would've liked this!") and an exhausting barrage of robocalls (we received 23 at the house in the four days prior to the election - I would reconsider voting for my wife for anything after an assault like that).

Morons. :r:
 
Iran and Israel

One of the questions of this upcoming election is regarding Iran and Israel and the continued tension between the two countries.

What do you think that President Obama would do if reelected in terms of these two countries? What do you think that Mitt Romney would do if elected in terms of these two countries?
Do you think either would move the embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem? Will either take military action against Iran to prevent the creation of nuclear weapons? Will either do anything at all?

I personally think that no much will change if Obama gets reelected. He has already pushed Israel away and agreed on sanctions against Iran. But I don't think anything new would happen unless Iran attacks the US. I do think that they will attack Israel if he is elected, but I don't think that they will attack US soil. I think if Romney gets elected, there will be stronger sanctions placed against Iran until the people rise up against the current government, improved relations with Israel, and I think that the embassy will get moved to the nationals capital, which is the common practice for the US. I don't think anyone will get attacked, but I don't think that the problems will go away.
 
One of the questions of this upcoming election is regarding Iran and Israel and the continued tension between the two countries.

What do you think that President Obama would do if reelected in terms of these two countries? What do you think that Mitt Romney would do if elected in terms of these two countries?
Do you think either would move the embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem? Will either take military action against Iran to prevent the creation of nuclear weapons? Will either do anything at all?

I personally think that no much will change if Obama gets reelected. He has already pushed Israel away and agreed on sanctions against Iran. But I don't think anything new would happen unless Iran attacks the US. I do think that they will attack Israel if he is elected, but I don't think that they will attack US soil. I think if Romney gets elected, there will be stronger sanctions placed against Iran until the people rise up against the current government, improved relations with Israel, and I think that the embassy will get moved to the nationals capital, which is the common practice for the US. I don't think anyone will get attacked, but I don't think that the problems will go away.

Nothing will change. Our military will continue to dictate what happens. As long as diplomacy is working (even when very slow and incremental), the military will stand down.

Also, JUST YESTERDAY, Obaman ordered new sanctions.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/31/us/iran-sanctions/index.html
 
So the genius assbags here in Texas just nominated Ted Cruz, Tea Party dandy, for the Senate seat being vacated by Hutchison. While I was not a fan of Dewhurst, he at least understood compromise and was capable of being a statesman--I can handle conservative as long as they have statesmanlike qualities and are capable of compromise (same expectation I have for a Democrat). Cruz is not capable of either of those things. For those of you that don't know, securing the GOP nomination for the Senate seat practically guarantees that he'll win the office since the Texas Democratic Party is incapable of putting forward a candidate with any type of statewide name recognition or appeal.

Ted Cruz will make Jim Inhofe from Oklahoma look like a moderate. Ted Cruz is brought to you by the same Texas republicans who gave us this frightening sentence as part of their official party platform: "We oppose the teaching if Higher Order Thinking Skills, critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome Based Education which focuses on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student's fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority."

According to some of the pundits last night, Dewhurst can place a lot of the blame on his failed campaign on the rescheduled primary and 2 months between the primary and the run-off. If the primary would have been in March as orginally scheduled, Dewhurst would have beaten Cruz handedly. Instead Dewhurst rested on his laurels hoping for name recognition until it was too late and the mud-slinging commenced. Dewhurst lost and lost bad last night, 57% to 43%. The notion of even the slightest whiff of compromise and reaching across the aisle equated the candidate as being "liberal" and no better than Obama.

It is so bizzare that when voters are asked about why they are dissatisfied with Congress, they respond because of the lack of compromise and the constant gridlock, yet in today's highly polarized political world the accusation of being a moderate or compromise is akin to a scarlet letter. *bangs head against the wall*
 
It is so bizzare that when voters are asked about why they are dissatisfied with Congress, they respond because of the lack of compromise and the constant gridlock, yet in today's highly polarized political world the accusation of being a moderate or compromise is akin to a scarlet letter.
I think this can be explained by a combination of redistricting and voter turn out. Obviously redistricting is not an issue for a Senate race but voter turnout certainly is. The Tea Party is much more enthusiastic than the majority of Republicans, so they're going to turn out in disproportionately higher numbers.

I often wonder what this country would be like if voting was mandatory or if election day was a national holiday. I doubt the Republicans would be anywhere near as powerful as they are now.
 
Yesterday was primary day for state and local races here in Georgia. The big statewide issue was a vote on regional SPLOSTs to fund transportation improvements, which failed in spectacular fashion - 9 of the state's 12 regions rejected it. The metro Atlanta vote went 63% against, 37% in favor. The local press is painting the defeat of the SPLOST here in the metro area as a Tea Party victory...there was Tea Party opposition, but the huge margin of the overall defeat, combined with the fact that it failed in all 10 metro counties (some of which are fairly blue), suggests that opposition was much more widespread than just the Tea Party folks. Personally, I place most of the blame at the feet of the SPLOST supporters, who sunk millions of dollars into what was possibly the worst political ad campaign of all time....it was like watching a massive train wreck unfold in slow motion over a two-month period. At no point did the supporters make an effort to actually try and educate voters on exactly how a regional approach to improving transportation, including heavy support for transit, would improve the overall traffic situation here in the ATL. None of their literature contained contact information for more information, and the overall theme of their campaign was basically "vote for this and everything will be magically better - you're welcome!" And, when polling a week in advance of the vote showed that the measure was probably going to crash-and-burn, their response was a TV ad invoking the ghost of Ronald Reagan ("hey - look - the Gipper would've liked this!") and an exhausting barrage of robocalls (we received 23 at the house in the four days prior to the election - I would reconsider voting for my wife for anything after an assault like that).

Morons. :r:

Excellent coverage of this issue. Thank you for actually thinking about what's going on.

Things are not better at the state and local levels no matter what the federal leaders say. This is not a time where any family (blue or red) would vote for a tax increase regardless of the outcome.
 
It is so bizzare that when voters are asked about why they are dissatisfied with Congress, they respond because of the lack of compromise and the constant gridlock, yet in today's highly polarized political world the accusation of being a moderate or compromise is akin to a scarlet letter. *bangs head against the wall*

They should clarify that they are upset because the otherside won't compromise to their ideals. :not:
 
Chick-fil-A restaurants locally were packed yesterday. Tons of white, mostly older, female customers surprised me. Course, my metro isn't the most progressive area around ...:not:
 
Chick-fil-A restaurants locally were packed yesterday. Tons of white, mostly older, female customers surprised me. Course, my metro isn't the most progressive area around ...:not:

People don't need much of an incentive to eat chicken sandwiches, do they?
 
Chick-fil-A restaurants locally were packed yesterday. Tons of white, mostly older, female customers surprised me. Course, my metro isn't the most progressive area around ...:not:

Yeah... people wigging out about it resulting in some pretty positive results for Chick-Fil-A.

Long-term I think they'll have issues though as they expand into more 'progressive' regions of the country. Polarizing your brand is not a good business move, regardless of the message or intent.

What has really shocked me is that no one latched onto his statement about "still being married to our first wives." While they aren't contributing to anti-divorce efforts, that statement had a strong air of judgement to it that should offend at least half the country based on divorce statistics. I really am amazed that a service-oriented retail business would go around making political statements about hot social issues and contribute funds to that end.
 
Yeah... people wigging out about it resulting in some pretty positive results for Chick-Fil-A.

Long-term I think they'll have issues though as they expand into more 'progressive' regions of the country. Polarizing your brand is not a good business move, regardless of the message or intent.

What has really shocked me is that no one latched onto his statement about "still being married to our first wives." While they aren't contributing to anti-divorce efforts, that statement had a strong air of judgement to it that should offend at least half the country based on divorce statistics. I really am amazed that a service-oriented retail business would go around making political statements about hot social issues and contribute funds to that end.

I spoke with a gay friend of mine about this issue. He did not have kind words about the CEO, but he did say that he would continue to eat there (about 3 minute drive from his house) because while the CEO has one opinion, he knows the people who work there and he has never had anything except exceptional service from them and the food is good.

I also have some extreme religious friends who have never eaten at a Chic-fil-A but drove the hour plus drive just to go to one. When they got back told me that they will drive down there every few weeks until we get one in southern Michigan.

Overall, I question how much, if any, his comments will have. They already have locations in 'progressive' areas like downtown Chicago and while they may have seen an uptick in sales, I think it will level out and be business as usual very soon.
 
Chick Fil A

I initially didn't care about what the owner said about gay marriage. It's his opinion - so what. I'll eat there if I feel like it. But after watching the outpouring of support from people specifically stating they were going to eat there because they agree with the owner's anti-gay views, and with many GOP talking heads telling people to eat there to specifically support the anti-gay agenda, I am changing my mind. In my mind, Chick Fila the business has now made a stand with the owner's views and made them one and the same. the business and the anti-gay groups have managed to make eating at a chick fila restaurant a statement about hating gay people. I will not be eating at a chick fil-a, ever.
 
the business and the anti-gay groups have managed to make eating at a chick fila restaurant a statement about hating gay people. I will not be eating at a chick fil-a, ever.

And that's the kick in the head. I like the food, and could initially blow off the owner ranting. Now, a bunch of talking heads and an outpouring of bigotry have HIJACKED the only chicken sandwich I like. Dammit. It's hurtful.

My brother recently came out as gay. He's lived in the closet his whole life and been, essentially, in pain. Why do so many people have to care so much? Can't my brother just live his life and be happy? Can't I just have a chicken sandwich? It isn't enough for bigots to take happiness away from gay people, they have to also now take chicken away from tolerant straight people. That is - as I said - a real kick in the head. I know I'm waking up.
 
Chick-Fil-A topic - here we go - the time for this discussion was yesterday.

I think tomorrow will be telling as well. The topic is going to continue to be relevant because it is growing to more than just a bigoted CEO and overzealous Mayors. It matters.
 
So the genius assbags here in Texas just nominated Ted Cruz, Tea Party dandy, for the Senate seat being vacated by Hutchison.

Yet another indicator that the billionaire plutocrats are buying their government. TeaPurty is and always has been an infiltrator by the plutocrats.
 
I initially didn't care about what the owner said about gay marriage. It's his opinion - so what. I'll eat there if I feel like it. But after watching the outpouring of support from people specifically stating they were going to eat there because they agree with the owner's anti-gay views, and with many GOP talking heads telling people to eat there to specifically support the anti-gay agenda, I am changing my mind. In my mind, Chick Fila the business has now made a stand with the owner's views and made them one and the same. the business and the anti-gay groups have managed to make eating at a chick fila restaurant a statement about hating gay people. I will not be eating at a chick fil-a, ever.

I feel the same way… we have our first Chik-fil-A coming to town this fall and people in town (including myself) were looking forward to it. If we already had one in town I would have stayed away for a bit but returned eventually. But after yesterday’s “outpouring of support” I feel ill about it and really, really wish they would just stay away from here forever. Imagine if all the money spent on chicken yesterday had gone to food banks or homeless shelters or something…
 
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