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NEVERENDING ♾️ The NEVERENDING Political Discussion Thread
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imaplanner
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I don't know much about his stint as governor, but as budget director for the Bush Administration he was one of the primary culprits of our deficit spending.
Mitch Daniels was on the Daily Show last week and I bet he regrets that decision now. I initially thought he was a fairly pragmatic individual but seeing him unable to justify many of his policy positions was painful to watch. It was a 20+ minute interview of him just giving non-answers to Jon Stewart's questions and falling back to typical Republican rhetoric. It may have just been a bad interview but it did alter my opinion of him.
At the very least, I respect how he believes economic issues should be prioritized over social ones. I'd have a lot more respect for the Tea Party if they followed that advice.
At the very least, I respect how he believes economic issues should be prioritized over social ones. I'd have a lot more respect for the Tea Party if they followed that advice.
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Yeah, ask the immigrants and women with unplanned pregnancies about Mitch's desire to emphasize economic issues over social issues. Daniels talks a good game but he doesn't walk the walk.
Whose Yur Planner
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I can answer that as a former Hoosier who was there during part of his term. He is a conservative govenor in a conservative state. Indiana has a balanced budget because it has to, as per the constitution, so he can't claim that.
He had a mixed track record. Some successes with some spectular failures. Indiana has environmental problems with so-so infrastructure. None of this is being addressed. Further complicating this are limits placed on taxes clear down to the local level.
From what I understand if there had been a viable Democratic candidate, he would not have gotten a second term. Even if he wasn't term limited, he would not have gotten a third term.
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I was reading this article about Herman Cain on CNN - http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/01/opinion/martin-cain-brainwashed/index.html?hpt=hp_bn9 and it got me to thinking.
Is the GOP with its religious right assuring for the next generation the LGBT vote to the Democrats? Or do they not care because it is shoring up the religious vote by having such strong stances on abortion and gay rights?
I guess I never fully understood why the African American vote went from R to D. History is pretty interesting. Sad, but extremely interesting.
Is the GOP with its religious right assuring for the next generation the LGBT vote to the Democrats? Or do they not care because it is shoring up the religious vote by having such strong stances on abortion and gay rights?
I guess I never fully understood why the African American vote went from R to D. History is pretty interesting. Sad, but extremely interesting.
mgk920
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Sad to say that the religious vote in the formerly solid Democratic south is very, very strong and a real worry on Romney remains that his membership in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints could well swing several of those states to the other side.
It frustrates me, too, but religion IS an issue. How would an openly-practicing Muslim do nationwide, even if he or she follows all of the other 'correct' lines in the eyes of most voters?
Mike
It frustrates me, too, but religion IS an issue. How would an openly-practicing Muslim do nationwide, even if he or she follows all of the other 'correct' lines in the eyes of most voters?
Mike
wahday
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I have wondered how the new census info on how much growth the south has seen (particularly among African Americans who are migrated back south now) in the last decade will impact the vote, both local and national.
mgk920
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Maybe we can once the Cuban government gives the Bacardi distillery back to the Bacardi family (their rums, many varieties of which are USA 'domestic', with a major presence in San Juan, PR, were Cuban until the Castro Brothers stole the distillery from them).
Mike
The reason the embargo hasn't been lifted is that Cuba went ahead and arrested a USAID contractor for setting up internet in a Jewish community on the island. He was sentenced to 15 years for trying to overthrow the government. Understandably, relations won't improve till that guy is released.
I'm honestly not sure what Cuba hoped to gain by doing this.
Duke Of Dystopia
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Silly
I am sure we can manage trade relations once it resumes with Cuba. It seems that we can handle resumed relations with Vietnam, I am sure we can deal with Cuba.
It is likely that Bicardi will have to deal with the past loss of their distillery.
WSU MUP Student
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[OT]
I'm no longer welcome in the Bacardi facility closest to the former Naval Station Roosevelt Roads in Puerto Rico.
I get banned from Bacardi factory tours and decommissioning of the Naval Station is announced a few short months later. Coincidence? I think not!
(I think Bacardi is just about a tourist location in PR these days anyway and have moved most of their actually distilling to Florida or Bermuda or something)[/OT]
I'm no longer welcome in the Bacardi facility closest to the former Naval Station Roosevelt Roads in Puerto Rico.
I get banned from Bacardi factory tours and decommissioning of the Naval Station is announced a few short months later. Coincidence? I think not!
(I think Bacardi is just about a tourist location in PR these days anyway and have moved most of their actually distilling to Florida or Bermuda or something)[/OT]
otterpop
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We start down that road and we might have to improve relations with Colombia by giving them Panama back..
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Hamas frees Israel's Gilad Shalit in prisoner swap
http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/18/world/meast/israel-prisoner-swap/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
Not sure what I think about this. Is the life of one soldier worth the life of 1,000? What if those 1,000 now kill 10,000?
That is a tough one. Can someone with military background explain the expectations if taken captive by a terrorist group? Would you expect to go home, or just accept that you would probably not ever get out?
http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/18/world/meast/israel-prisoner-swap/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
Not sure what I think about this. Is the life of one soldier worth the life of 1,000? What if those 1,000 now kill 10,000?
That is a tough one. Can someone with military background explain the expectations if taken captive by a terrorist group? Would you expect to go home, or just accept that you would probably not ever get out?
WSU MUP Student
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While the 1,000:1 ratio is staggering anyway you look at it, I would imagine that many of those were probably locked up for pretty petty offenses (protesting without permits, loose connections to funding groups, silent partner of a printing company who took a contract to produce some propaganda, etc.). I don't think Israel would release 1,000 bomb makers and snipers.
There is also a code in the military, and I imagine this is true regardless of the nation, that there is no soldier left behind. And knowing that one of your troops is still out there unaccounted for can be a powerful motivator to acquiesce to the other sides demands or at least meet them at the negotiating table.
I think a lot of it comes down to the individual conflict and the group that has taken you captive. Being taken captive by the Palestinian Authority would likely give you better survival odds than being captured by Hamas since the Authority has a much more structured organization and operates more like a government and military than Hamas. While the soldier in question was taken captive by Hamas, he probably lucked out that over the past couple of years Hamas has been slowly trying to normalize relations with the rest of the Palestinian Authority. If he had been taken hostage by Hamas around 2000 and the Second Intifada, his chances of survival might have dropped. All in all though, as far as terrorist organizations go Hamas would probably be a better bet than a Mexican Drug Cartel looking for ransom money.
In the end, no matter who takes you captive, your captors will generally recognize that the only valuable hostage/prisoner is a live hostage/prisoner. Yes governments like to get back the dead bodies of their killed hostages/prisoners, but a dead body does not make a good bargaining chip.
Planit
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That Wacky Florida Governor Rick Scott
Another chapter in the ills of Florida's Governor. This guy continues to amaze me and shows further evidence that he should be recalled:
His biggesat campaign promise was Jobs, Jobs, Jobs and to do that he laid off most of DCA which provided planning oversight for the state becuse 'dem planners just got in the way. Now he won't fund high-end R&D jobs, but then says the request never got to him...
http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/economicdevelopment/article1197246.ece
Another chapter in the ills of Florida's Governor. This guy continues to amaze me and shows further evidence that he should be recalled:
His biggesat campaign promise was Jobs, Jobs, Jobs and to do that he laid off most of DCA which provided planning oversight for the state becuse 'dem planners just got in the way. Now he won't fund high-end R&D jobs, but then says the request never got to him...
http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/economicdevelopment/article1197246.ece
imaplanner
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WSU MUP Student
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The situation unfolding at the development offices in a nearby county is looking increasingly more and more alarming. The former head of economic development left voluntarily to become the head of the airport and was given a rather large severance package. Speculation is that there is wrong doing from county commissioners, local developers, county executives, etc. Now even the FBI has gotten involved. While I sometimes desire to work in the big city to be where the action is, that's not the type of action I want to be in.
I had no idea the spoils system was still alive and doing so well.
The latest article in the saga: FBI goes after records in Wayne County payout investigation
I had no idea the spoils system was still alive and doing so well.
The latest article in the saga: FBI goes after records in Wayne County payout investigation
imaplanner
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No American lives were lost and only about 1 billion dollars was spent and we rid the world of Qaddaffi. Quite a contrast to over 1 trillion dollars and thousands of American lives lost to rid the world of Sadaam Hussein.
While I am not a big fan of president Obama, his foreign policy successes are pretty amazing. securing Russian nukes, withdrawal from Iraq, overthrow of Qaddaffi, killing of Bin Laden, pretty much defeating Al Qaeda. It's interesting to hear alot of the opposition claim he is so weak on national security. I think if he was a republican the GOP would be calling him the bestest evah
While I am not a big fan of president Obama, his foreign policy successes are pretty amazing. securing Russian nukes, withdrawal from Iraq, overthrow of Qaddaffi, killing of Bin Laden, pretty much defeating Al Qaeda. It's interesting to hear alot of the opposition claim he is so weak on national security. I think if he was a republican the GOP would be calling him the bestest evah
Tarf
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Lead from behind means achieving our foreign policy objectives on the cheap, while making allies pay their fair share, and all without losing a single US service member.
I really don't understand what the righties are complaining about. Smaller government, democracy in the middle east, very few tax dollars spent... Oh, that's right. Obama was in charge, so it must be wrong, right? 8-!:lmao:8-!
ddomin4360
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Let me go point by point-
Russian Nukes- I don't trust them to fulfill their end of the bargain
Withdrawal from Iraq- Way after he said he would. He's basically following the Bush Iraq withdrawal plan
Overthrow of Qaddaffi- Shouldn't have gotten involved in the first place
Killing Bin Laden/Defeating Al Qaeda- Stuff that was in motion for 7 years before he became president. He's reaping the rewards of hard work of the Bush administration on those things.
With that said I should openly admit I dislike Obama just as much as I disliked Bush before people think I'm some sort Bush lover/Obama hater.
beach_bum
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Barely and now the dems are looking to add a constitutional amendment so that he can be recalled due to his high unpopularity.
Tarf
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Point by point
Russian nukes - if it fails, not really Obama's fault.
Iraq - Bush refused to ever set a timeline, Obama did set a timeline. Obama is following his timeline.
Qaddafi - If you argue we shouldn't have gotten involved there, then where does that leave Iraq? $1 billion to overthrow a dictator without a SINGLE loss among coalition troops is a bargain by any measure.
Bin Laden - True it's been in operation for a long time, but Obama seriously stuck his neck out by authorizing a military invasion of Pakistan to get him. Had OBL not been at that compound, it would have been a HUGE gaffe for the POTUS, not to mention a foreign policy disaster the likes of which we haven't seen since the Bay of Pigs. Thus, Obama certainly deserves credit for that. With respect to Bush, Bush had his chance at Tora Bora, and dropped the ball in favor of Iraq - a country that hadn't attacked us and that didn't have WMDs.
I respect those who don't like Obama. His economic record hasn't been great - unquestionably (though the degree to which republicans share in that blame is debatable). But if one is going to dislike Obama's presidency, at least do so for domestic policy reasons and not foreign policy reasons. Obama's foreign policy approach has largely been unassailable.
kalimotxo
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Oh boy... I'm a little bit ambivalent about most any of our "adventures" abroad, but i don't think you can call his record "unassailable". I have a close friend who rails against Obama (after having actively campaigned for him in '08) because of the whole extrajudicial killing issue. His record on civil liberties in general I think should give most Americans - especially his supporters - pause. Yet I think there's a serious tendency for those on the left to forgive Obama for certain actions when they would have torn apart his predecessor for the very same. Don't get me wrong - I'm not comparing the two. GWB was by every measure a terrible president and I think Obama's done a better job on every major issue. I just hate the double standards.
I'd personally like to see someone like Russ Feingold in the White House. Unfortunately, I think his backbone would be a major impediment to the huge donors that increasingly control our electoral process. Hence we are stuck with a shitty choice between corporatist Democrats and corporatist Republicans for the foreseeable future.
ddomin4360
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Point by point
Russian nukes - if it fails, not really Obama's fault.
Iraq - Bush refused to ever set a timeline, Obama did set a timeline. Obama is following his timeline.
Qaddafi - If you argue we shouldn't have gotten involved there, then where does that leave Iraq? $1 billion to overthrow a dictator without a SINGLE loss among coalition troops is a bargain by any measure.
Bin Laden - True it's been in operation for a long time, but Obama seriously stuck his neck out by authorizing a military invasion of Pakistan to get him. Had OBL not been at that compound, it would have been a HUGE gaffe for the POTUS, not to mention a foreign policy disaster the likes of which we haven't seen since the Bay of Pigs. Thus, Obama certainly deserves credit for that. With respect to Bush, Bush had his chance at Tora Bora, and dropped the ball in favor of Iraq - a country that hadn't attacked us and that didn't have WMDs.
I respect those who don't like Obama. His economic record hasn't been great - unquestionably (though the degree to which republicans share in that blame is debatable). But if one is going to dislike Obama's presidency, at least do so for domestic policy reasons and not foreign policy reasons. Obama's foreign policy approach has largely been unassailable.
I could swear Bush talked about a 2011/2012 departure. Also Obama promised to end the war in 09.
I agree Libya was cheap, but I don't care. We have too much debt for to be spending billions frivolously, and let other countries police the world. As far as Iraq, I was against it before we even went there.
Economically is where I have the biggest gripe with Obama, mostly because I'm not a Keynesian. While the Republicans sure haven't been helpful towards economic recovery. I just think the President's ideas are bad in that regard. Perhaps not ALL of them, but he likes bundling things into huge bills and those big bills all tend to be bad. At least in my eyes.
Yes I'm aware Congress is responsible for these bills being huge and bulky, but as President he needs to keep his party somewhat in line. As President he gets the fame and the blame.
imaplanner
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actually - 1 billion or less in Libya. we spend more every single day on frivilous things. Overthrowing a known terrorist who has killed americans and murdered his own people and destabilized the region and the global oil market is a pretty good thing and I would say at 1 billion it's an amazing deal.
I do tend to agree that we should spend money on the US not outside the US. All I was remarking on was that according to GOP foreign policy ideology Obama is a resounding success - so much more so than Bush and arguably up there with Reagan already - and so it's interesting to hear the same people who claim Bush and Reagan as strong and even saintly on national security to claim Obama is a weak terrorist sympathizing disaster.
On another note- as if we needed more eviednce of the completely moronic disgustingness of the Tea Party
Bear Up North
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Return Of Joe
Great news for America! "Joe The Plumber" has announced that he is a candidate for the U.S. House. He is one of the candidates lining-up to face either long-term Representative Marcy Kaptur or oft-newsworthy Dennis Kucinich. Kaptur and Kucinich are likely to oppose each other in the primary......thanks to one of the most-convulted-ever examples of gerrymandering. The new district winds along the Lake Erie coast from central Toledo to central Cleveland.
As for Toledo-area "Joe".....he intends to fix what is "wrong" with America. Nice!
:-c
Bear
Great news for America! "Joe The Plumber" has announced that he is a candidate for the U.S. House. He is one of the candidates lining-up to face either long-term Representative Marcy Kaptur or oft-newsworthy Dennis Kucinich. Kaptur and Kucinich are likely to oppose each other in the primary......thanks to one of the most-convulted-ever examples of gerrymandering. The new district winds along the Lake Erie coast from central Toledo to central Cleveland.
As for Toledo-area "Joe".....he intends to fix what is "wrong" with America. Nice!
:-c
Bear
Tarf
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If I understood correctly, he's running in a newly created district that is about as democrat as it gets... He has about as much chance of going to Congress as I do.
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He is running against our good buddy Dennis Kucinich or Marcy Kaptur (the longest serving democratic women in the house)...
He didn't have a chance even if it was was republican territory... the guy is a nut.
stroskey
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Am I the only one who has gotten less political since leaving college? I can not see any noticible difference between Bush and Obama in my daily life so to my family it just doesn't really matter. I do not think we can blame Bush or Obama for the economic crisis. The market is so much larger than any one person, regardless if he is the president. To do so is ignorance of the system - we don't live in a dictatorship so anything he does needs approval by congress, therefore it's not just one person.
Mastiff
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He's finally taking a page from the Bush book on unilateral implementation and making what moves he can. Sure, most of it doesn't do much more than create re-election talking points, but it's something. I'd be more impressed if he'd stuck to his guns on the single payer option for health care.
imaplanner
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Agreed. But I suspect that this opinion is the minority of registered voters. Because most of the politically active people I talk to claim that Bush was evil and Obama is excellent or Obama is evil and Bush was excellent. Americans are generally pretty moronic and gullible and the media knows this and uses it to get ratings. It's amazing and sickening to hear the same people defend a Bush/Obama for doing the same thing they were supposedly so upset about when Bush/Obama did it.
Planit
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An interesting little article about Congress' net worth.
http://www.rollcall.com/issues/57_51/And-Congress-Rich-Get-Richer-209907-1.html?pos=hftxt
Members of Congress had a collective net worth of more than $2 billion in 2010, a nearly 25 percent increase over the 2008 total, according to a Roll Call analysis of Members' financial disclosure forms.
Nearly 90 percent of that increase is concentrated in the 50 richest Members of Congress.
http://www.rollcall.com/issues/57_51/And-Congress-Rich-Get-Richer-209907-1.html?pos=hftxt
Members of Congress had a collective net worth of more than $2 billion in 2010, a nearly 25 percent increase over the 2008 total, according to a Roll Call analysis of Members' financial disclosure forms.
Nearly 90 percent of that increase is concentrated in the 50 richest Members of Congress.
imaplanner
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A little known fact about congress is that members of congress have exempted themselves from insider-trading laws and they routinely make large amounts of money based on insider and classified information.
ddomin4360
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Let's not forget that they also know about laws/bills that may be on their way to getting passed or voted on and thus have an impact on the economy.
hilldweller
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More fuel for Occupy protesters:
http://slatest.slate.com/posts/2011/11/03/corporate_tax_study_some_on_fortune_500_paid_no_taxes.html.html
http://slatest.slate.com/posts/2011/11/03/corporate_tax_study_some_on_fortune_500_paid_no_taxes.html.html
imaplanner
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On the topic of the occupy movement:
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/10/2011103113411372769.html
Bear Up North
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Ohio's Issue 2 goes before the voters in the Buckeye State on Tuesday. If the vote is NO the Republican-led major changes to Ohio's collective-bargaining laws, etc. yadda will be swept away. This single issue could well be a national barometer mark on very-restrictive (Tea Party-like) legislation (and politicians who were voted in).
Bear
Bear
mgk920
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What effects would a repeal of those reforms have on Ohio's state and local fiscal situation?
Mike
Bear Up North
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Have to admit, I see good and bad with Ohio's Issue 2. Toledo, for example, needs ammunition in dealing with a budget shortfall this year of $48 million and unless unemployment numbers go back to normal (or even near-normal) budget shortfalls of even more in future years. OTOH, the proponents of YES on Issue 2 have used "the blame game", citing police officers, firefighters, and others for problems that are obviously much more related to Wall Street and the economic recession that started when Dubya was Prez but continues with Obama.
Just a couple days to decide. Mmmmmm......
Bear
Just a couple days to decide. Mmmmmm......
Bear
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Much of the reforms would do little to nothing for the budgets of local communities. It does do a great job of transfering the burden from the state level to the local level. Something that our very bad Governor Kasich has continued to do. Instead of dealing with budget issues at the state level, he has pushed for legislation that puts the burden on local governments and asks them to raise taxes because he isn't willing to do that.
There are a lot of reasonable requests in SB5 (which is Issue 2), but in the end the real issue is the fact that the bill was pushed through without thought, because Kasich knew that once people understood what was in it, they wouldn't support it.
What will happen once it is repealed is that they will go back and approve individually the pieces that make sense... like they should have done originally.
And unless the Democrats can't find anyone to run... Kasich will get voted out after one horrible term... maybe at that point local government will recover from his horrible policies...
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Wow... are they pulling plays out of Perry's playbook here in Texas. Perry LOVES unfunded mandates to local government & passing the buck to them, despite his rhetoric to the contrary.
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Well the State of Ohio spoke pretty loudly... 61% - 39% that they didn't think Governor Kasich's hastily put together bill was right for Ohio.
I find it annoying that all the news could talk about is how it is a mixed message that Ohio gave with the complete trouncing of Issue 2, but passing Issue 3 which said we don't support the healthcare mandate. They are two separate issues with a different message.
I find it annoying that all the news could talk about is how it is a mixed message that Ohio gave with the complete trouncing of Issue 2, but passing Issue 3 which said we don't support the healthcare mandate. They are two separate issues with a different message.
mgk920
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So what will Ohio now do to prevent themselves from becoming the USA's equivalent of Greece? The state's budget problems are still there in full force.
Also, there are several major differences between Ohio's situation and the one here in Wisconsin:
-Wisconsin's reforms exempted police, fire and EMS.
-Wisconsin's reforms are already in place and functioning - to amazing effect. Just allowing school districts to shop around for health coverage for their teachers, instead of requiring them to use the union's own insurance company as under the old contracts, has saved them millions and millions of dollars for identical coverage, The level of the savings from just that caught even the most optimistic conservatives off guard. Public services are all still functioning normally, there have been very few layoffs of government workers and some agencies are actually expanding their workforces (for example, Manitowoc County just announced that they are hiring additional snowplow drivers for the season that they otherwise would not have). Many school districts are now operating in surplus and are expanding their teaching staffs where they otherwise would not have. Those agencies that are not seeing these benefits and are even laying people off are mainly ones that opted to renew their old union contracts before the law took effect.
-Wisconsin's state budget is now balanced with a surplus. The previous biennial state budget was $3 billion plus in deficit.
Will there be a recall effort against Governor Walker and other state legislators? It's already in the pipeline. Will it work? The jury is out.
Mike
Issue 3 was pointless since Ohio still has to follow Federal law. It was nothing more than a symbolic vote which isn't indicative of anything. Honestly I'm not even sure why someone went through the effort to get the petitions to stick that on the ballot in the first place.
Tarf
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I found it ironic that they passed Issue 3 on the same day a second federal court of appeals upheld the healthcare mandate as constitutional.
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Geez, with so few options I guess we are all screwed.
I mean seriously, do you think Ohio is going to become Greece now? Instead of watching 50k+ jobs lost, we will now have to watch the parts of SB5 that made sense put up for vote and approved. I find it funny that the same people who thought that Obama's health bill was pushed through too fast, are so accepting of SB5, which was approved in the same manner.Your utopia sounds dreamy. I would like to hear from teachers and public employees in Wisconsin if it really is "amazing".
This all sounds like a wonderful success. But I guarantee there is MUCH more to that story. Ask Michelle Bachmann about the one lady that told her about HPV vaccines. I heard that was a true story....
That will be the test. Just like it was in Ohio. Sure your method might balance a budget or solve the "problem" that you have framed... but if the people in your state don't agree with the framework, or think you are handling the situation poorly... they get the final say. Ohio voted down Issue 2 at the highest rate ever for a referendum. That says something. You serve the people. And like it or not, they get the final say. I think we all know that.
Blide said:
I think that it was put up for symbolic reasons from a strongly R legislature. Also, I cynically think it was put up to get more tea party people to go to the polls in hopes of them voting Yes for Issue 2.