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NEVERENDING ♾️ The NEVERENDING Political Discussion Thread

Gedunker said:
Perhaps you were thinking of sedition, instead of treason? And, no, I don't think you are off base at all.
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We need to be careful about throwing out words like treason and sedition. This isn't the same a crying fire in a threater or purposely trying to undermine the authority. I was pixxed of when Bush, Inc was throwing out those words during the height of the Iraq war toward anyone who dared opposed the war. Both ideas depends on how is in power and where you stand on a particular issue. Majorities become minorities only to become majorities again.

Do I agree with what is happening now, no. I also think the people doing the fighting are insulated from the results if the debt ceiling isn't raised. This is part of the problem. But I don't think it rises to the point of either treason or sedition. Stupidity, greed and short sightedness, most definitely. I also think this going to shake things up in the next election and not the way either party hopes for.
 
Mitch McConnell made no bones about it, did he?

"The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president."

A person like that, no matter what party, should never be in public office. As much damage as I think Bush did, if a politician had said their biggest priority was to unseat him, they'd be just as bad. Put the people first, and forget the little R's and D's. :-@
 
Whose Yur Planner said:
We need to be careful about throwing out words like treason and sedition. This isn't the same a crying fire in a threater or purposely trying to undermine the authority. I was pixxed of when Bush, Inc was throwing out those words during the height of the Iraq war toward anyone who dared opposed the war. Both ideas depends on how is in power and where you stand on a particular issue. Majorities become minorities only to become majorities again.

Do I agree with what is happening now, no. I also think the people doing the fighting are insulated from the results if the debt ceiling isn't raised. This is part of the problem. But I don't think it rises to the point of either treason or sedition. Stupidity, greed and short sightedness, most definitely. I also think this going to shake things up in the next election and not the way either party hopes for.
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I don't think its a fair comparison. AFAIK we have never had people actually saying that they want to trash the economy to ensure a president doesnt get re-elected. I can understand people who have actual concerns or have the lack of understanding of economics, or whatever their positions might be, but actually admitting that they want to trash the economy on purpose to score political points and make the president look bad? Cmon- that's clearly a serious problem. And I'm not trying to say the entire GOP is engaged in this behavior - just the ones that are actually saying or agreeing with others who say that they should trash the economy to make sure Obama doesn't get re-elected. Thats what I am talking about. I am actually really shocked and amazed that this isn't a bigger deal to people.
 
My God. The media is reporting that John Boehner just said (admitted) many in his party want the economy to crash. This is ridiculous. :-@
 
I am almost ready to join the imaplanner movement to be generally disgusted with all politicians. Could they be MORE disappointing? I think not.

I get that they have elections to consider, and that politics is complicated, yadda yadda yadda....but at some point you have to stop being paralyzed by analysis and posturing and second-guessing and DO something. My word, don't we all live with that every day? And somehow we manage to do it. Why can't politicians?

Somebody run for office that I can respect and trust. Oh yeah, and it can't be my Mom, she's unqualified in every other respect, but she's the last person left that I can respect and trust. :-@:-@:-@
 
Don't normally like McCain (especially after his 2008 flip flopping and newfound conservatism), but gotta give him credit for this quote from today on the Senate floor:

"The idea seems to be that if the House GOP refuses to raise the debt ceiling, a default crisis or gradual government shutdown will ensue, and the public will turn en masse against . . . . Barack Obama," McCain said, quoting the Journal article. "The Republican House that failed to raise the debt ceiling would somehow escape all blame. Then Democrats would have no choice but to pass a balanced-budget amendment and reform entitlements, and the tea-party Hobbits could return to Middle Earth having defeated Mordor."
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Man Frum does it again...

http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/08/01/frum.debt.republicans/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

The main points:

1) Unemployment is a more urgent problem than debt.
2) The deficit is a symptom of America's economic problems, not a cause.
3) The time to cut is after the economy recovers.
4) The place to cut is health care, not assistance to the unemployed and poor.
5) We can collect more revenue without raising tax rates.
6) Passion does not substitute for judgment.
7) You can't save the system by destroying the system.
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Republicans have become so gripped by pessimism and panic that they feel they have nothing to lose by rushing into a catastrophe now. But there is a lot to lose, and in these past weeks America nearly lost it. Let's hope that as America steps back from the brink, Republicans remember that it's their job to protect the system, not to smash the system in hopes of building something better from the ruins.

That's how student radicals think -- not conservatives.
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Hink_Planner said:
I did not know that most people vote "no" for referendums. It was a big deal yesterday that the language for our SB5 (the anti-union bill) referendum was worded so the "no" goes to the supporters of SB5.

I would guess that if the question is do you support SB5? Or do you oppose SB5? The answer is pretty clear cut....
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I often wonder how John Q. Public views this sort of political shenanigans, that is when he's even aware of it. I'm talking about things that are strictly speaking legal but intended solely to bring about political advantage to one party. Things like gerrymandering, intentionally wording referendums with confusing or deceptive language, or making it either easier or more difficult to challenge votes in particular districts.

I would imagine most people shrug and figure that's the way the game is played when it happens to benefit their side, but feel moral indignation when its the other guys doing it.
 
Maister said:
I often wonder how John Q. Public views this sort of political shenanigans, that is when he's even aware of it. I'm talking about things that are strictly speaking legal but intended solely to bring about political advantage to one party. Things like gerrymandering, intentionally wording referendums with confusing or deceptive language, or making it either easier or more difficult to challenge votes in particular districts.

I would imagine most people shrug and figure that's the way the game is played when it happens to benefit their side, but feel moral indignation when its the other guys doing it.
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That's the one thing that I really liked about living in Oregon. Although these types of questions would make it on the ballot the mandatory Voter's Guide that was mailed to every household made it very clear what the result of a Yes or No vote was on a particular item.
 
Maister said:
I often wonder how John Q. Public views this sort of political shenanigans, that is when he's even aware of it. I'm talking about things that are strictly speaking legal but intended solely to bring about political advantage to one party. Things like gerrymandering, intentionally wording referendums with confusing or deceptive language, or making it either easier or more difficult to challenge votes in particular districts.

I would imagine most people shrug and figure that's the way the game is played when it happens to benefit their side, but feel moral indignation when its the other guys doing it.
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The same thing here in Wisconsin - the pending State Senate recall elections were scheduled by the Government Accountability Board, most of the members of which are ultra-partisans appointed by our former ultra-left governor, such that all six of the Republicans who are up for recall are being voted this coming Tuesday (2011-08-09), while all of the Democrats who are up for recall (two out of the three, as one did not require a primary) will be voted the following Tuesday (2011-08-16).

Talk about blatant partisanship at work here! Why could they not have scheduled all of the recall elections to be held on the same day?

:-@

:r:

Mike
 
mgk920 said:
The same thing here in Wisconsin - the pending State Senate recall elections were scheduled by the Government Accountability Board, most of the members of which are ultra-partisans appointed by our former ultra-left governor, such that all six of the Republicans who are up for recall are being voted this coming Tuesday (2011-08-09), while all of the Democrats who are up for recall (two out of the three, as one did not require a primary) will be voted the following Tuesday (2011-08-16).

Talk about blatant partisanship at work here! Why could they not have scheduled all of the recall elections to be held on the same day?

:-@

:r:

Mike
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nevermind, no sense it painting with a broadbush. The majority of R's out there are good.
 
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mgk920 said:
The same thing here in Wisconsin - the pending State Senate recall elections were scheduled by the Government Accountability Board, most of the members of which are ultra-partisans appointed by our former ultra-left governor, such that all six of the Republicans who are up for recall are being voted this coming Tuesday (2011-08-09), while all of the Democrats who are up for recall (two out of the three, as one did not require a primary) will be voted the following Tuesday (2011-08-16).

Talk about blatant partisanship at work here! Why could they not have scheduled all of the recall elections to be held on the same day?

:-@

:r:

Mike
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Recall elections in Wisconsin are set based on the filing date for the petition to recall and when the filing officer determines a recall petition is sufficient. The rules are very specific:

Date of Recall Election: §9.10(3)(b), Wis. Stats.
If the filing officer finds that the petition is sufficient, the filing officer shall file the petition and
call a recall election to be held on the Tuesday of the 6th week commencing after the date the
filing officer files the petition. If that Tuesday is a legal holiday, the recall election shall be held
on the first day after Tuesday which is not a legal holiday.
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This is why these elections fall on different Tuesdays. Its based on the order of submittal and review. I suspect those calling for the recall of the Democratic officials submitted their petitions a week after the others.
 
Everything will be okay when President Backmann is elected and Secretary of State Palin is appointed.
 
Planit said:
Everything will be okay when President Backmann is elected and Secretary of State Palin is appointed.
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I'm not sure it will be worse than what we have now. Obama seems completely confused about what he might believe in, other than compromise with people who refuse to compromise. While the tea party and lunatic fringe of the republican party is ridiculous, at least they have a direction. Obama seems to want to head in three competing directions all at the same time and his complete lack of leadership is quite possibly worse than a leader taking us in the wrong direction. I am starting to believe he is worse than Bush was - if only because he has principally continued the Bush policies while at the same time not sticking up for himself and allowing a radical fringe element to essentially set the national discourse. What an awful, awful president.
 
Bubba said:
Looks like the Rs will maintain control of the Wisconsin Senate.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/08/10/wisconsin.recall.elections/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
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I was surprised that even two got recalled. I always imagine that most recall elections aren't too successful because it's so hard to get people to get out and vote on these random days and often the original issue causing people to start the recall campaign in the first place has passed in many people's minds. Of course, I have zero empirical evidence to back up this theory.
 
Bubba said:
Looks like the Rs will maintain control of the Wisconsin Senate.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/08/10/wisconsin.recall.elections/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
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This will be used a political fodder and considered "proof" that the people want the legislation. Which I doubt is the case.

Here in Ohio there were 915,456 valid signatures of Ohio voters collected, far exceeding the 231,147 signatures needed to place SB5 (our version of the Wisconsin Union busting / government shrinking bill) on the statewide ballot.

We will see in November what the people of Ohio really think, but I have a feeling that we are going to see 65-35 in favor of repeal.
 
WSU MUP Student said:
I was surprised that even two got recalled. I always imagine that most recall elections aren't too successful because it's so hard to get people to get out and vote on these random days and often the original issue causing people to start the recall campaign in the first place has passed in many people's minds. Of course, I have zero empirical evidence to back up this theory.
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I view most (not all) recall votes as very, very meh. In my fair county, there are cries for recall efforts against school board members every few months...they changed the school calendar slightly! RECALL! They didn't protest enough about the new cell tower that's sort of near my kids' school!! RECALL THE BUMS!!! Meh, meh, meh. The one recall effort I felt was worthwhile involved an attempt to use special local option sales tax funds for something they weren't intended for and bid-rigging. This Wisconsin stuff? Meh.
 
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.co...for-wealthy-and-deep-spending-cuts/?hpt=hp_t1

It seems that people want to tax the wealthy and continue to cut spending.

To me the poll is obviously skewed because of this...

Nearly two-thirds say no to major changes to Social Security and Medicare. And nearly nine in ten don't want any increase in taxes on middle class and lower income Americans.
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I think closing loopholes and finding a way to better share the tax burden (I support the super-high bracket - $1m+), but think that everyone still needs to be involved in the taxes of this country. It is absurd that 50% of people don't pay any taxes...
 
Hink_Planner said:
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.co...for-wealthy-and-deep-spending-cuts/?hpt=hp_t1

It seems that people want to tax the wealthy and continue to cut spending.

To me the poll is obviously skewed because of this...



I think closing loopholes and finding a way to better share the tax burden (I support the super-high bracket - $1m+), but think that everyone still needs to be involved in the taxes of this country. It is absurd that 50% of people don't pay any taxes...
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Polls are such bs. You don't need a poll to tell you that the majority of people want their life to be the same or better and somebody else should get screwed to make it happen.
 
WSU MUP Student said:
I was surprised that even two got recalled. I always imagine that most recall elections aren't too successful because it's so hard to get people to get out and vote on these random days and often the original issue causing people to start the recall campaign in the first place has passed in many people's minds. Of course, I have zero empirical evidence to back up this theory.
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One of the two Rs who lost only lost by about 1.5% and that seat will almost certainly flip back to the Rs next fall with redistricting. Two of the Rs retained their seats by nearly 20% margins.

Right now the party balance in the Wisconsin State Senate is 17R/16D, with two Democrat seats up for recall next Tuesday. One of the two Ds is VERY vulnerable and it is quite possible that both could lose - both districts went heavily for Scott Walker in last fall's Governor election.

One thing - I am so, soooooo incredibly happy that I am no longer being carpet-bombed by those beyond SICK negative ads from the left - and I don't even live in a district that had a recall election. And very few ads from the left in the eastern part of the state made any mention of the state budget or the union reform legislation. The one district where the campaigning from the left was focusing on the reforms and state budget (in Dunn and Saint Croix Counties in the far western part of the state) went for the incumbent Republican - she (Sheila Harsdorf) won by 18%.

The only REAL winners in all of this? IMHO, it was the various media companies who were at the receiving end of the $30M+ in out-of-state special interest campaign spending.

Mike
 
mgk920 said:
The only REAL winners in all of this? IMHO, it was the various media companies who were at the receiving end of the $30M+ in out-of-state special interest campaign spending.

Mike
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We can officially agree on something completely :D
 
Apparently Michelle Bachmann is saying that the debt ceiling should have never been raised. And this is a person that is a serious candidate for the GOP nomination.
 
Memo to Florida Gov. Rick Scott

Hey dumbsh1+. As Governor, you cannot run the state like you did you private company. You are not the CEO. There are processes, checks and balances to stop crackpots like you from doing whatever the hell they want. Its called democracy and not dictatorship!

http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts...st-gov-rick-scott-in-rule-making-case/1186234

"The Florida Supreme Court ruled that Gov. Rick Scott "overstepped his constitutional authority and violated the separation of powers" with an executive order freezing all rules until he could approve them."


I feel sorry for my home state right now, but glad I'm not living there at the moment. Sorry RJ and all other FlaPlanners.
 
Planit said:
Hey dumbsh1+. As Governor, you cannot run the state like you did you private company. You are not the CEO. There are processes, checks and balances to stop crackpots like you from doing whatever the hell they want. Its called democracy and not dictatorship!

http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts...st-gov-rick-scott-in-rule-making-case/1186234

"The Florida Supreme Court ruled that Gov. Rick Scott "overstepped his constitutional authority and violated the separation of powers" with an executive order freezing all rules until he could approve them."


I feel sorry for my home state right now, but glad I'm not living there at the moment. Sorry RJ and all other FlaPlanners.
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But the people voted him in.... that gives him the power of the people...except in the case of Obama... they people voting him in doesn't count.... :r:
 
Here's more news on the Fl legislature, from Scott Maxwell at the Orlando Sentinel; I love their columnists:
"We once lived in a state and country where politicians debated issues — but would never actually deny services just to make a point.

Those days seem to have passed.

We now live in a state where wealthy politicians cavalierly reject money for the sick and needy while sucking up subsidized insurance for themselves.

This isn't about conservative vs. liberal or left vs. right.

This is about right and wrong.

And punishing the disabled, elderly — even terminally ill kids, for heaven's sake — to make political points is wrong on a level that surpasses earthly condemnation.

Non-profit and faith-based caregivers sometimes ask me if Florida leaders simply don't understand the issues.

My growing and soul-shaking concern is that they simply don't care."

BTw, he makes the point that legislators in FL get life-long health insurance for $8 a month after serving only two years. So yeah, they are soooooo taking advantage.
 
Zoning Goddess said:
BTw, he makes the point that legislators in FL get life-long health insurance for $8 a month after serving only two years. So yeah, they are soooooo taking advantage.
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The argument is always made that it is so hard to change the laws that pay them and dictate their benefits that other things wouldn't be getting done.

I dare someone to put on the floor (in the states or federal government) for a pay cut, benefits cut, or any other QOL cut for elected officials and see how many people call in to support the measure.

Most politicians are living contradictions - do as I say not as I do. Healthcare is bad, but don't touch mine. Government is too big, but my job is important. Government pay is too high, but my pay is just right....
 
^^
'Recall fatigue' and a low overall turnout. Party balance in the Wisconsin State Senate remains 17R/16D,

Mike
 
mgk920 said:
^^
'Recall fatigue' and a low overall turnout. Party balance in the Wisconsin State Senate remains 17R/16D,

Mike
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So the voters weren't fatigued a week ago, but now they are... Right.

Perhaps since the R's managed to hold 4 of 6 seats, and the majority could not change, led voters to basically not give a crap on either side.

Occam's Razor and all that.
 
I was 'recall fatigued' when the idea was first brought up. Simply recalling someone because you disagree with a political line of theirs (ie, a 'do over'), especially when the targets campaigned on that issue and then (*GASP*! :-c ) followed through on their campaign promises, is not what recall is for. That is what the next scheduled election is for.

Recall is for politicians like Blago, if Illinois would have had that procedure in its constitution, or that mayor of Sheboygan, WI, ie, major malfeasances, corruptions or breakdowns in office, not for legislators who were simply doing what they were elected to do.

Mike
 
So our Governor has now determined that he wants to try and compromise over SB5....

http://www.ohio-share.coxnewsweb.com/multimedia/archive/00999/Letter_to_We_Are_Oh_999984a.pdf

Kind of funny, since that he only decided to do this after 900k + voters signed a petition to have the bill struck down. I like that it takes 900k signatures to allow a discussion about the "middle ground".

I have not belief that the Union leaders will allow the removal of the bill, but it does show a lot about Kasich.
 
mgk920 said:
I was 'recall fatigued' when the idea was first brought up. Simply recalling someone because you disagree with a political line of theirs (ie, a 'do over'), especially when the targets campaigned on that issue and then (*GASP*! :-c ) followed through on their campaign promises, is not what recall is for. That is what the next scheduled election is for.

Recall is for politicians like Blago, if Illinois would have had that procedure in its constitution, or that mayor of Sheboygan, WI, ie, major malfeasances, corruptions or breakdowns in office, not for legislators who were simply doing what they were elected to do.

Mike
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I would argue that the reasons you cited in the second paragraph are reasons for impeachment, not a recall. Violating the constitution or just outright breaking the law should not result in a recall - that implies that if people are ok with the illegality, that the official can stay in office. But if they break the law, they should be removed by the legislature.

Recalls have a long history in democracies - back to Athens and to the Massachusetts Bay Colony here in the US. The burden on those calling for the recall are fairly onerous - 25% of the people who voted in the previous election must sign (and signatures are scrupulously verified) a petition, votes must be collected within a limited period of time, etc. Its not like its an easy thing to do. To suggest it is frivolous or easy to initiate is misleading. IMHO.
 
Hink_Planner said:
So our Governor has now determined that he wants to try and compromise over SB5....

http://www.ohio-share.coxnewsweb.com/multimedia/archive/00999/Letter_to_We_Are_Oh_999984a.pdf

Kind of funny, since that he only decided to do this after 900k + voters signed a petition to have the bill struck down. I like that it takes 900k signatures to allow a discussion about the "middle ground".

I have not belief that the Union leaders will allow the removal of the bill, but it does show a lot about Kasich.
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Here in Wisconsin, Governor Walker and the Republicans in the legislature offered to compromise with the Democrats on the reform bills, watering them down - the Democrats' response was for their Senators to flee to Illinois. The rest, so to speak, 'is history'.

wahday said:
I would argue that the reasons you cited in the second paragraph are reasons for impeachment, not a recall. Violating the constitution or just outright breaking the law should not result in a recall - that implies that if people are ok with the illegality, that the official can stay in office. But if they break the law, they should be removed by the legislature.

Recalls have a long history in democracies - back to Athens and to the Massachusetts Bay Colony here in the US. The burden on those calling for the recall are fairly onerous - 25% of the people who voted in the previous election must sign (and signatures are scrupulously verified) a petition, votes must be collected within a limited period of time, etc. Its not like its an easy thing to do. To suggest it is frivolous or easy to initiate is misleading. IMHO.
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In Wisconsin, to force a recall election against the Governor will require a full half-MILLION signatures, this in a state with 5.5M population. With the decided lack of success that the Democrats had in retaking the state Senate by recall (after spending nearly $30M on the campaigns) and the fact that the state's teachers' union just announced a layoff of 40% of their central HQ staff, that now seems to be a looooong shot, indeed, IMHO.

Mike
 
mgk920 said:
Here in Wisconsin, Governor Walker and the Republicans in the legislature offered to compromise with the Democrats on the reform bills, watering them down - the Democrats' response was for their Senators to flee to Illinois. The rest, so to speak, 'is history'.
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You lie like a cheap rug.

mgk920 said:
In Wisconsin, to force a recall election against the Governor will require a full half-MILLION signatures, this in a state with 5.5M population. With the decided lack of success that the Democrats had in retaking the state Senate by recall (after spending nearly $30M on the campaigns) and the fact that the state's teachers' union just announced a layoff of 40% of their central HQ staff, that now seems to be a looooong shot, indeed, IMHO.

Mike
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Then why are you so worried about the recall rules and whether they are legitimate?

That 500,000 signatures is not going to be a problem, just as the number of signatures for the other recall's were not a problem.
 
mgk920 said:
With the decided lack of success that the Democrats had in retaking the state Senate by recall (after spending nearly $30M on the campaigns) ...
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Decided lack of success?

They defended all their seats subject to recall, and took 2 of the republican seats - coming in only one shy of what was needed to get a majority.

How is that a "decided lack of success"??? Sure, they didn't get the majority, but they came damned close - in my book, that's a near success, not decided lack of.
 
It's sad and disheartening to watch Americans on both sides of the political spectrum get played like a jukebox by those in power. This whole thing in Wisconsin is another example of many. Those with money and power find someone else to demonize to take the focus off of them.

Hey regular working people! The public union workers are not your enemy, and are not the cause of your problems! For Pete's sake, take a damned look behind the curtain. And for that matter, all the R's and D's need to set social issues aside for awhile and concentrate on who can best work for us. And by us, I mean the non-super elite, non-ultra rich, regular working class.

Liberals need to understand that some of the social programs for low income people need to go, just because you're poor doesn't mean you should be handed everything. And conservatives need to understand that entitlements to the wealthy have to go, too, just because you're rich doesn't mean you create jobs.

/rant
 
I'm so glad that sooooo many jobs are being created by the wealthy after the Bush tax cuts were extended back in December of 2010.
 
Mastiff said:
It's sad and disheartening to watch Americans on both sides of the political spectrum get played like a jukebox by those in power. This whole thing in Wisconsin is another example of many. Those with money and power find someone else to demonize to take the focus off of them.

Hey regular working people! The public union workers are not your enemy, and are not the cause of your problems! For Pete's sake, take a damned look behind the curtain. And for that matter, all the R's and D's need to set social issues aside for awhile and concentrate on who can best work for us. And by us, I mean the non-super elite, non-ultra rich, regular working class.

Liberals need to understand that some of the social programs for low income people need to go, just because you're poor doesn't mean you should be handed everything. And conservatives need to understand that entitlements to the wealthy have to go, too, just because you're rich doesn't mean you create jobs.

/rant
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agree completely. The media is pretty complicit in playing us as well. It's pretty amazing when you go out of the country and witness functioning democracies with actual free media. There are some countries doing the America freedom thing much better than us at the moment.
 
Mastiff said:
Liberals need to understand that some of the social programs for low income people need to go, just because you're poor doesn't mean you should be handed everything. And conservatives need to understand that entitlements to the wealthy have to go, too, just because you're rich doesn't mean you create jobs.
/rant
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To me this has always been the problem. The poor are entitled by programs that are created, and the rich are entitled by the breaks, bargains, and deals we give them. If we remove some of both, we are much better off.

Everyone is entitled. It just depends on what your economic class. I really doubt that many people that make 15k a year feel like we should keep the capital gains tax rate low, and as such many people making 300k see the value that welfare provides.

The problem is that we are unable to compromise anymore. When one side says it has to be my way or I am taking my ball home..... we are all screwed. :-@
 
tarf12345678 said:
Decided lack of success?

They defended all their seats subject to recall, and took 2 of the republican seats - coming in only one shy of what was needed to get a majority.

How is that a "decided lack of success"??? Sure, they didn't get the majority, but they came damned close - in my book, that's a near success, not decided lack of.

(et al...)
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Spin, spin, spin....

I stand by my words 'decided lack of success'. If I was to parrot your lefty talking points of wisdom regarding politics in Wisconsin over the past year, you would be saying that scoring two runs in the bottom of the ninth was a rousing success for your team in a playoff game seven - even though your team just lost 9-8 (and with a team payroll that was double that of every other team in the playoffs).

BTW, the state's teachers union (WEAC) just laid off 40% of their central office staff.

Mike
 
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