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NEVERENDING ♾️ The NEVERENDING Political Discussion Thread

I was at the Rally to Restore Sanity/Fear yesterday afternoon and all I can say is, "Holy massive crowd, Batman!" We couldn't actually get onto the mall. I would have probably needed to get there about 5:00 a.m. to even have a chance at doing. So after checking out the crowd and signs and listening to some of the music from the streets, we went to a bar to watch the event on TV. Every street in the area was absolutely jam packed with wall-to-wall people for at least a 4 or 5 block radius from the Mall in every direction.

I know that commentators on both sides of the aisle were complaining that a couple of satirists from Comedy Central had no business getting even remotely political, but I don't understand that. Doesn't true satire require that it's based on politics and current events? Personally, I think Colbert and Stewart had a great stage to make a real political statement and sort of squandered it. I would have liked them to actually call out folks a bit more viciously (granted, I haven't watched the entire event yet because it was a little loud in the bar but it's on my DVR waiting for me when I return to Michigan). I guess I wanted more than just telling people not to be so angry.
 
Was it a rational event? I watched some of it on Comedy Central. Seemed kinda like a hippy party :) Music and nothing really political about it. I have no problem with this kind of thing. The only difference between Glenn Beck and Jon Stewart is that Jon Stewart admits he is being stupid and is a comedian. Glenn Beck thinks he is smart and says he is serious...
 
Hink_Planner said:
Was it a rational event? I watched some of it on Comedy Central. Seemed kinda like a hippy party :) Music and nothing really political about it.
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It seemed pretty rational to me... well, except for the lines on the platforms for the metro. The clips I saw on TV seemed to show a lot more of the "hippie" element there than I saw in person and I only saw about two small groups way off on the sidelines with "NORML" or "Legalize It" type signs. The crowd seemed packed absolutely full of folks ages 20 - 30 but there were also quite a few senior citizens and even families with young children.
 
Fox commentators were going off on Obama saying that republicans can sit in the back of the car. They adjusted it to compare with the racist sentiment/comment of 'get in the back of the bus'

What short memories...they must have forgotten the RNC Chairman actually said 'get in the back of the bus' just this summer.

(and it goes both ways - just a recent example)

Election time of year should bring out the best in people wanting to help the nation. Instead it brings out the worst in people twisting statements, yelling incorrect 'facts', baseless accussations - I really don't like this time of year.
 
How to turn out the electorate

Get a 17yo troll to post these comments on Facebook:

I'm sorry my dad went and voted and y would u want to vote voting is stupid lol

Still it's a free countryand I have an opinon just like every body else does and there guuna pick who they want to won and it doesn't matter cause wee guuna be screwed either way.
 
WSU MUP Student said:
I know that commentators on both sides of the aisle were complaining that a couple of satirists from Comedy Central had no business getting even remotely political, but I don't understand that. Doesn't true satire require that it's based on politics and current events?
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What?! People using humor to explore serious issues? Preposterous!

Yes, I think this kind of argument falls flat as well. Its like saying music has no role in political discussions either. And yet, most people in this country today recognize the amazing power music has had in the past to move people toward social and civic action. Its all art, afterall, and art is so often the vehicle we use to express ideas that are difficult to get out via other modes. Maybe its because generally, our pervasive sense of American Work Ethic has tended to equate having fun with not working. So, how could comedy possibly lend serious insight to anything of meaning?

But I think the tide is turning...
 
Here is my take. The middle class is done for. Citizen's united, along with the Fox News misinformation campaign that has successfully altered the national discourse, will continue to give the GOP such dominant exposure, that I think we are on target for years and years and probably decades of republican control. I don't see the democrats or any third party being able to compete with Fox News and the unlimited corporate cash.
 
imaplanner said:
Here is my take. The middle class is done for. Citizen's united, along with the Fox News misinformation campaign that has successfully altered the national discourse, will continue to give the GOP such dominant exposure, that I think we are on target for years and years and probably decades of republican control. I don't see the democrats or any third party being able to compete with Fox News and the unlimited corporate cash.
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You panic way to soon. let the dust settle for a little bit before you hit the panic button.
 
California elects dead candidate

(CNN) – Democrat Jenny Oropeza won re-election as a state senator in California, but the implications of her victory Tuesday won't be known for some time.

Oropeza, 53, died two weeks before the election from a blood clot after battling cancer. But the incumbent remained on the ballot, winning by a decent margin - 58 percent to 36 percent over Republican John Stammreich.
 
Planit said:
(CNN) – Democrat Jenny Oropeza won re-election as a state senator in California, but the implications of her victory Tuesday won't be known for some time.

Oropeza, 53, died two weeks before the election from a blood clot after battling cancer. But the incumbent remained on the ballot, winning by a decent margin - 58 percent to 36 percent over Republican John Stammreich.
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How much of the 'dead' vote did he get?

^o)

(DUCKS and RUNS!!!! :-o )

Mike
 
What's the over-under on impeachment proceedings being initiated for President Obama?
 
Dan said:
What's the over-under on impeachment proceedings being initiated for President Obama?
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I have not read any marginally credible (from a conservative standpoint) source advocating that. Won't happen. Won't be attempted, barring any unforeseen actual crime eventually being committed by the White House.
 
Dan said:
What's the over-under on impeachment proceedings being initiated for President Obama?
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Dan
We need Obama in office to ensure we are able to get Sara Palin and Mr. Theodore Nugent in the oval office in 2012....
 
el Guapo said:
Dan
We need Obama in office to ensure we are able to get Sara Palin and Mr. Theodore Nugent in the oval office in 2012....
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I think unless you kill every living sane minded person in the United States, that will never happen.

Obama isn't going to get impeached. Boehner will start working on Healthcare, but will get no where on it. They will agree on taxes, and smaller government, and that will help move some agenda items forward, but the republicans know that no one likes them either.

If it was actually a call to remove democrats I would say they could go all mavericky and try and impeach Obama, or even try to push the Ryan Roadmap. But my guess is that they will try and stay low until 2012 where they will say that they improved the economy - because it is getting better quarter over quarter now. That is much smarter than trying to motivate the base anymore than they already have. The establishment R's now need to get the Tea Partiers back in line with reasonable dialog.
 
TexanOkie said:
I have not read any marginally credible (from a conservative standpoint) source advocating that. Won't happen. Won't be attempted, barring any unforeseen actual crime eventually being committed by the White House.
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Isaa has said himself he will be looking into it. And I'm sure you know- he is now the man. That's pretty dam credible.
 
imaplanner said:
Isaa has said himself he will be looking into it. And I'm sure you know- he is now the man. That's pretty dam credible.
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Issa has said he'll be looking into some investigations about a few topics from both the Obama and Bush administrations. I have not heard nor read the word "impeach" anywhere credible.
 
Senator-elect Rand Paul (R-KY) seems to think he's going to the Senate to foment change. Does he really think Senator Mitch McConnell (R-KY) is going to allow that?

Really, all these tea-stained wretches are going to find that the Republican Elite are going to have nothing to do with them, thank you very much. It is, however, a good time to be rich or corporate, or both. Pork favors are sure to follow ... :not:
 
I'll give you all one BIG reason why there will be no move from the right to have BHO removed from office:

'Joe Biden'

:-c

Mike
 
Why can't Boehner be like every other Republican and get as many earmarks as humanly possible for his district. The man has only one good attribute and it happens to be a bad thing for my district. I swear you can't win. :r:
 
TexanOkie said:
Proper corrections noted. ;-)
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Fair enough. I agree completely that both parties do it. Republicans just happen to be better at it, and yet continue to scream about it. Boehner has never taken an earmark, as far as I know.
 
imaplanner said:
Whats the deal with that guy anyways? Always crying, always orange. A giant weeping orange Boehner?
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The crying thing is kind of getting old honestly. And he tans. Which is why I think he is against the healthcare bill... the extra taxes he pays to kill himself just put him off the deep end... :) Well maybe he has some other reasons too, but I would imagine that is a major one.
 
So the newly elected republican representative from Minnesota (I think) Ms. Bachmann is on the airways saying the president's trip to India will cost $200 million a day and have 34 warships for security detail. The White House, Pentagon and several others say this number is ridiculous. But since she has spouted this dribble on tv many people will take it as the truth.

Why can't we hold some of these people responsible for lying to the public?!?!? Oh silly me, that's what they do...lie...it's part of being elected.
 
I notice now that the much despised "Obamacare" we heard so much about so often during the run-up to the election is now the Health Spending Bill. (See, for example, Ditch McConnell {R-KY} at Heritage Foundation yesterday.)

"All the voyeurs and the lawyers who can pull a fountain pen,
and put you where they choose,
with the language that they use,
and enslave till you work your youth away,
Oh, god, how I worked my youth away..."
(Buffalo Bill's Lament. D. McLean)

:not:
 
Planit said:
So the newly elected republican representative from Minnesota (I think) Ms. Bachmann is on the airways saying the president's trip to India will cost $200 million a day and have 34 warships for security detail. The White House, Pentagon and several others say this number is ridiculous. But since she has spouted this dribble on tv many people will take it as the truth.

Why can't we hold some of these people responsible for lying to the public?!?!? Oh silly me, that's what they do...lie...it's part of being elected.
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I think this is amazing because they White House is saying that the cost is comparable to when Bush or Clinton went overseas. Do we want our President to just stay in the White House? It seems that she is saying a Republican or more likely a Tea Party President wouldn't WASTE money like that. I call Bull$h!t.


=================

On another topic I enjoyed this piece, from Fox News?!.... http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010...cratic-republican-party-odonnell-angle-marco/
 
This Bear's take on the election.....

1. It was no more of a mandate than Obama's election was. The facts are, millions of folks who voted in 2008 did not go to the polls in 2010.

2. It is not a sure thing that this impressive series of election wins will lead to a Republican in the White House because of the 2012 election. There is a strong possibility that those non-voters will return to the polls the next time around.

3. Tea Party wins strengthened Sarah Palin's position. She has rabid fans....but those fans could cause trouble in Red Land, especially if unwilling to compromise. Other prominent Rs still poll ahead of Obama if the race was held today. Those others include Romney, Huckabee, and Pawlenty. Palin polls well behind Obama.

4. If I was a Blue Democrat I would be more worried about the upcoming re-districting that will occur after the census results are released. Gerry-mandering will certainly convert some states from Blue to Red (come election time).

5. Florida's Rubio will make a splash. He will grab enough Latino votes to turn Florida Red (electoral votes, baby!). And he is a future superstar.

6. On a personal note: This election cycle really upset me. Lies and distortions on both sides. Disgusting.

Bear
 
What says the throbbing brian about "non-partisan" news anchor people donating to political candidates? Keith Olbermann is the latest, and he was slapped on the wrist by MSNBC. Media Matters found that 30 Fox News anchors have done it.

Should our news anchors be donating? Once they accept a job, are they giving up their personal rights to support a candidate? No anchor is really non-partisan. But is donating to a campaign too far? What say you?
 
Hink_Planner said:
What says the throbbing brian about "non-partisan" news anchor people donating to political candidates? Keith Olbermann is the latest, and he was slapped on the wrist by MSNBC. Media Matters found that 30 Fox News anchors have done it.

Should our news anchors be donating? Once they accept a job, are they giving up their personal rights to support a candidate? No anchor is really non-partisan. But is donating to a campaign too far? What say you?
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I don't think news anchors should be donating, and MSNBC is wise to have a policy in place to prevent it. That being said, I don't think Keith Olbermann or most of the Fox News people are news anchors - I'd call them commentators or some new title like "editorial broadcasters". In that regard, MSNBC should revise their ethics standards, since Mr. Olbermann shouldn't have been disciplined for his actions, IMO. He's not a news anchor and he donated with his personal resources, not MSNBC's.
 
Hink_Planner said:
What says the throbbing brian about "non-partisan" news anchor people donating to political candidates? Keith Olbermann is the latest, and he was slapped on the wrist by MSNBC. Media Matters found that 30 Fox News anchors have done it.

Should our news anchors be donating? Once they accept a job, are they giving up their personal rights to support a candidate? No anchor is really non-partisan. But is donating to a campaign too far? What say you?
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I think the rules are changing as the media we get our news from is changing.

Olbermann was quite open about being democratic and liberal. So the fact he donated was kind of moot. Being an news anchor does not remove your right to politically participate in your country.

New rules will hammer themselves out sooner or later.
 
TexanOkie said:
I don't think news anchors should be donating, and MSNBC is wise to have a policy in place to prevent it. That being said, I don't think Keith Olbermann or most of the Fox News people are news anchors - I'd call them commentators or some new title like "editorial broadcasters". In that regard, MSNBC should revise their ethics standards, since Mr. Olbermann shouldn't have been disciplined for his actions, IMO. He's not a news anchor and he donated with his personal resources, not MSNBC's.
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I agree. I looked at that list of Fox News people, and most of them were "contributors" like current/former politicians (Gingrich, Palin, Huckabee, Santorum) and leaders of the conservative movement (Ingraham, Malkin, Kristol, etc.). True, Glen Beck and Hannity were on there, but I put them in the same category as Olbermann, all being hosts of opinion shows.

I did not see any true news anchors on that list though...Chris Wallace, Shepard Smith, Megyn Kelly, Greta Van Susteren, Bill Hemmer, Martha Macallum, etc.

Regardless, I think people should be free to do what they want, but for an actual news anchor or journalist to donate money like the people I just listed, I think they should be discouraged from donating. Ulitmately, it should be up to the journalist and the news organization they work for. The viewing public can then judge accordingly.
 
I have a few political podcasts that I listen to on my iPod in my car or office each week. My top three favorites are KCRW's Left, Right & Center, NPR's It's All Politics, and Slate Magazine's Political Gabfest.

Left, Right & Center is the most "high-minded" of the three listed and is the only radio show I have found with knowledgeable regular panelists that covers actual policy without spending too much time on them. It's All Politics has the two best hosts of any political talk show I've found - you can tell that they absolutely love talking politics and especially elections and they both seem to have an encyclopedic knowledge of all things politics post WWII. They even get down to some pretty local level races and issues which are always pretty interesting.

The Slate Political Gabfest has the same format as LR&C but with a much more humorous tone. This week, they will be recording live at the law school at the University of Michigan and I will definitely be there. It should be pretty interesting to see one of these taped live (but I have a feeling that it will actually be pretty darn boring in person).

I think I'm most excited though because this will give me an opportunity to hit up Zingerman's Deli which I haven't been to in months. :p
 
I've suddenly entered the realm of podcasts myself. Those rec's look intriguing, WSU MUP Student and I will check them out.

My big area of inquiry lately is economics and I can't say enough great things about NPR's Planet Money. I'm not talking about the 2 minute spot they do on another NPR show, but the 25 minute podcast they produce. Its excellent and so incredibly approachable, its shear genius. I will listen to one of their podcasts and then read some dry written text about micro or macro economics and suddenly realize, oh, that's exactly what the Planet Money folks were talking about - I totally understand that.

Of course, just because its about money doesn't mean it has nothing to do with politics. They touch on a lot of global issues that directly relate to national and international political realities. Just great stuff.
 
Hink_Planner said:
[OT]Overpriced, but so good. I love their cheese selection.[/OT]
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Overpriced indeed, but their sandwiches are easily among the best I've ever had at any deli.

They have an actual restaurant that make's the prices at the deli look like items on McDonald's Extra Value Meal menu though so it's cheap by comparison. Or at least that's what I tell myself when I go. ;)
 
So, the Deficit Commission releases its' non-partisan report and.....

Just about every Democrat attacks it. Just about every Republican, just a week ago screaming about deficits, do not comment.....at all.

Hmmmm.......

Bear
 
WSU MUP Student said:
Overpriced indeed, but their sandwiches are easily among the best I've ever had at any deli.

They have an actual restaurant that make's the prices at the deli look like items on McDonald's Extra Value Meal menu though so it's cheap by comparison. Or at least that's what I tell myself when I go. ;)
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My wife works for Zingerman's in the catering department, and I very much appreciate it when she brings various goodies home that were sadly too old to sell. Nom nom nom ;)

Apologies for continuing the derail!

I'm still getting to grips with politics in this country compared to the UK. It certainly seems rather nastier and more cut-throat over here!
 
Bear Up North said:
So, the Deficit Commission releases its' non-partisan report and.....

Just about every Democrat attacks it. Just about every Republican, just a week ago screaming about deficits, do not comment.....at all.

Hmmmm.......

Bear
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Hmmm, I haven't seen that. Link??
 
oldy said:
I'm still getting to grips with politics in this country compared to the UK. It certainly seems rather nastier and more cut-throat over here!
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May just be my perception but it seems like our national politicians are nasty before the elections and relatively civil to each other in Congress whereas yours are civil until elected and then berate each other nastily in Parliament. True?
 
Bear Up North said:
So, the Deficit Commission releases its' non-partisan report and.....

Just about every Democrat attacks it. Just about every Republican, just a week ago screaming about deficits, do not comment.....at all.

Hmmmm.......

Bear
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I'm becoming more and more convinced that only two things will truly change the course of the US and/or global world. Another Great Depression, or a global war.

God help my children.
 
btrage said:
I'm becoming more and more convinced that only two things will truly change the course of the US and/or global world. Another Great Depression, or a global war.

God help my children.
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Well, the Great Recession (which is the worst economic climate since the Great Depression) and the Global War on Terror haven't really managed to change anything, so I don't know why anything slightly worse would.
 
illinoisplanner said:
Well, the Great Recession (which is the worst economic climate since the Great Depression) and the Global War on Terror haven't really managed to change anything, so I don't know why anything slightly worse would.
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By global war I mean nation-states at war, not hunting down suicide bombers.
 
illinoisplanner said:
Well, the Great Recession (which is the worst economic climate since the Great Depression) and the Global War on Terror haven't really managed to change anything, so I don't know why anything slightly worse would.
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Well, seeing as there is now almost no demand for USA Treasuries on Worldwide markets and a fast increasing level of talk in international monetary circles of going back to a Worldwide gold standard....

A gold standard would be much like what the Euro is to the individual countries that use it - since their governments do NOT control the supply of Euros, they cannot inflate their way out of their debt crises by 'printing' more of them (and 'printing money' is just a confiscatory flat-rate tax on all cash-based assets). For example, had Greece not been a Euro country, they would have likely added several 'zeros' to their Drachma over the past year or so, and in so doing impoverish their middle class, rather than having to confront their overspending head on with draconian austerity measures. Ditto the USA Dollar and the individual USA states, counties, cities, etc.

One interesting point that someone that I read not long ago made is that based on commodities market prices, the same volume/mass of gold had nearly the exact same buying power 100 years ago (when the USA was on the gold standard and before the Federal Reserve was created) as it does now.

A quick thought on that is that a convenient base unit for a Worldwide gold standard would be the 'gram' (the market price of 1 gram of gold is now about USA$45.25), with the minor division being the 'milligram' (1,000 mg, of course, equals 1 g), slightly under a USA nickel.

One thing that has been noticed in that deficit commission report thing was no mention of Obamacare™ and many other entitlements. IMHO, just that health care disaster alone may well completely collapse the Dollar.

:-@

AND, don't get me going on how Mr. Clueless (AKA BHO) is mishandling all of this on the Worldwide stage....

:-@ :-@ :-@

Mike
 
Hink_Planner said:
Hmmm, I haven't seen that. Link??
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I just found it... http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/11/us/politics/11fiscal.html?_r=1&hp

Interesting take... it cuts military spending, medicare / medicaid spending, and ups the retirement age to 69. It really makes both the left and right mad. And yet it cuts over $4tillion through 2020. Pretty good to me.

I think the Dem's and Repub's need to quit crying and start realizing this is the kind of tough choices that need to be made. Nothing is off the table.
 
mgk920 said:
... One thing that has been noticed in that deficit commission report thing was no mention of Obamacare™ and many other entitlements. IMHO, just that health care disaster alone may well completely collapse the Dollar...

AND, don't get me going on how Mr. Clueless (AKA BHO) is mishandling all of this on the Worldwide stage....
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Care to substantiate such a radical claim with something like facts rather than just making incendiary claims? The relatively modest health insurance reform bill is going to collapse the dollar? It's at least deficit neutral, cuts Medicare fat (an idea Republicans ostensibly once supported before it became a political liability), ensures millions more through privately-provided insurance, and funnels all of those new customers to the existing insurance industry. Please help me trace your logic that such a program - which my simple mind can't conceive having any impact on currency valuation - will cause the collapse of the dollar? Everything Obama does is wrong to some people regardless of the facts. He based his health care reform effort on many ideas earlier espoused by Republicans (including Mitt Romney and Orrin Hatch), yet when Obama executes, it's some socialist plot to take over the economy.

Furthermore, there are reasons it's difficult for Obama to accomplish anything on the international stage. Consider the loss of standing we suffered as a country for ignoring facts, international law, and world opinion to launch two wars that have done nothing to improve our national security. If anyone has the right to criticize Obama's performance internationally, it isn't those of you who twice elected the stubborn, dishonest, warmongering jingoist administration that preceded his.

Yeah, if only the Republicans were still in control, everything would be downright ducky right now. :r:
 
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