• Cyburbia is a friendly big tent, where we share our experiences and thoughts about urban planning practice, the built environment, planning adjacent topics, and anything else that comes to mind. No ads, no spam, and it's free. It's easy to join!

NEVERENDING ♾️ The NEVERENDING Political Discussion Thread

The 4th Inspector General has now been fired in the 3 years of tRump all for their job. Why stop now.






Saw a local sign this weekend:

God, Guns & Country
tRump
2020
 
Planit said:
The 4th Inspector General has now been fired in the 3 years of tRump all for their job. Why stop now.






Saw a local sign this weekend:

God, Guns & Country
tRump
2020
Click to expand...

I've seen that, as well as a few flags around saying "all aboard the Trump train."
 
239284.png
 
Did you get the mailing from the White House - " Your Economic Impact Payment Has Arrived"

best lines are:

we are working around the clock
Just as we have before, America will triumph yet again--and rise to new heights of greatness
 
JNA said:
Did you get the mailing from the White House - " Your Economic Impact Payment Has Arrived"

best lines are:

we are working around the clock
Just as we have before, America will triumph yet again--and rise to new heights of greatness
Click to expand...
I look forward to the White House acting as a central figure giving facts again. Looking at the Twitter feed of the White House is so disappointing.

--

I enjoy the comparisons of talking heads when one political party is in power against another one, just to see the clear hypocrisy. But the current hypocrisy is really painful. Is it okay to golf all the time or not? I mean that was a big deal I thought, and determined whether you were able to be president or not.... ugh.
 
Hink said:
I look forward to the White House acting as a central figure giving facts again. Looking at the Twitter feed of the White House is so disappointing.

--

I enjoy the comparisons of talking heads when one political party is in power against another one, just to see the clear hypocrisy. But the current hypocrisy is really painful. Is it okay to golf all the time or not? I mean that was a big deal I thought, and determined whether you were able to be president or not.... ugh.
Click to expand...
I got a credit card looking thing for the Treasury Department that's supposed to be my stimulus payment. With all the scams, I'm more than a bit leery about it.
 
JNA said:
Did you get the mailing from the White House - " Your Economic Impact Payment Has Arrived"
Click to expand...

No. My economic stimulus payment (that I did not ask for or need) arrived without fanfare or any WH mailing. It'll sit in my bank account until I return it to the Feds the next time I pay my income tax.
 
We got the stimulus money by direct deposit, and promptly moved it into savings. The follow-up letter was opened, scanned, laughed at, then shredded.

We may not need the money now, but if things continue going downhill, one of us may lose their job. And then that money will be needed. Our rainy day fund gets more deposited every paycheck than before, just in case.
 
Planit said:
View attachment 48357
Click to expand...
Trump being mad at Twitter is laughable. He is mad that they are now fact checking him. I think that it is a slippery slope, as how do you do this fairly... but also hope that maybe, just maybe, we stop using Twitter to get information out and it stops being a big deal. Use proper methods that do not include social media as the primary communication. Have other people then use the centralized, sanitized social media accounts of the government to state facts about what is actually happening. Please, for all that is holy, do not allow any retweets at all from government accounts.

This shouldn't be difficult.... but wow is it unprofessional.
 
JNA said:
Did you get the mailing from the White House - " Your Economic Impact Payment Has Arrived"
Click to expand...
Anybody look at the Spanish translation on the back of the letter? The whole translation is a bit 'off'' and many parts are just plain awkward. It's as if somebody quickly ran the English version through Google Translate, signed off on it, and never looked back.


Edited in:
Stupid me--I forgot that people who read Spanish better English.... Surely they are in this country illegally! The whole bunch of 'em should be lucky they're getting any money at all!!
 
Last edited:
www.reuters.com

Exclusive: U.S. taxpayers' virus relief went to firms that avoided U.S. taxes

Last month Zagg Inc, a Utah-based company that makes mobile device accessories, received more than $9.4 million in cash from a U.S. government program that has provided emergency loans to millions of businesses hit by the coronavirus.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com

I feel like this is something that both sides could agree on - don't allow companies that don't pay US taxes to get any US bailouts, or support. It seems simple...
 
finance.yahoo.com

Mark Cuban proposes debit card stimulus with workers stuck in 'never never land'

Unemployed workers are "stuck in Never-never land," and need more help, the Dallas Mavericks owner said.
finance.yahoo.com finance.yahoo.com

I think this is a really good idea. Technology can be utilized to get money out quicker and securely.

Paper checks, letters, etc. are all completely pointless, and a really poor use of funds. Send a $1 plastic card with funds linked to something, and then the government can fill that back up whenever they want to give us free money, or take it away in Cuban's concept.

I think it is really unique and interesting to think about the government forcing demand by giving money for a limited period of time. It would really ramp up the lines and spending.

Maybe even say it can't be spent online.... ;)
 
I have been resisting posting, but I am going to anyways... and I am going to post here because it is only a mater of time before someone blames Trump or the Republicans.

What happened in MN where the police killed George Floyd is both horrific and inexcusable. The officers involved should without question be charged with a minimum of involuntary manslaughter and potentially a hate crime.

But what I don't get is the riots and looting that is now going on. I don't get it. The video of people looking a Target in Minneapolis does absolutely nothing to help Floyd. And it is not just African-Americans that are looting. The video shows a white woman running out of the store with several living room lamps. In LA, they are attacking police and this is likely going to continue regardless of what happens. I have no issue with people protesting, but when those demonstrations turn violent, that is not acceptable.
 
michaelskis said:
I have been resisting posting, but I am going to anyways... and I am going to post here because it is only a mater of time before someone blames Trump or the Republicans.

What happened in MN where the police killed George Floyd is both horrific and inexcusable. The officers involved should without question be charged with a minimum of involuntary manslaughter and potentially a hate crime.

But what I don't get is the riots and looting that is now going on. I don't get it. The video of people looking a Target in Minneapolis does absolutely nothing to help Floyd. And it is not just African-Americans that are looting. The video shows a white woman running out of the store with several living room lamps. In LA, they are attacking police and this is likely going to continue regardless of what happens. I have no issue with people protesting, but when those demonstrations turn violent, that is not acceptable.
Click to expand...
There is plenty of study on why oppressed people riot.
 
April 29, 1992
Sublime

[Verse 2]
When we returned to the pad to unload everything
It dawned on me that I need new home furnishings
So, once again, we filled the van until it was full
Since that day, my living room's been much more comfortable
'Cause everybody in the hood has had it up to here
It's getting hotter, and hotter and harder, each and every year
Some kids went in a store with their mother
I saw her when she came out, she was getting some Pampers
They said it was for the black man
They said it was for the Mexican, and not for the white man
But if you look at the street, it wasn't about Rodney King
And this fucked up situation, and these fucked up police
It's about coming up and staying on top
And screaming, "187 on a motherfuckin' cop"
It's not in the paper, it's on the wall
National Guard
Smoke from all around

mskis - The above should give some insight.
 
"Please, I can't breathe". That's why they riot. That, and every fucking card stacked against young, African American males, who know, there but for the grace of God, go I.

I don't blame them one bit.
 
People riot after their team loses the Superbowl. People riot after their team wins the Superbowl. People just like a good party.

michaelskis said:
The video shows a white woman running out of the store with several living room lamps.
Click to expand...

Sounds like Karen needs some new living room furnishings. She's been looking at those lamps for a while now and the opportunity just came up.
 
I think the intensity of the situation escalated because just a couple days earlier, the man in Georgia killers were finally arrested after it being ignored by the local police, then just a day or 2 ago, 'karen' called the cops on a man who just asked her to leash her dog to follow the rules...there was a bit extra tension/frustration/anger that had built up.

Then today a man asked a couple others if they were tenants of the building & questioned if they were allowed to use the gym...again in Minneapolis!

The racism issues have increased over the last 3.5 years - I wonder where the correlation is? Hummmmmm!

tRump blasted the protestors (as he should), but he encouraged the armed protestors at state capitols just days earlier.
 
I think it's just sheer and utter frustration. This keeps happening. And not a damned thing changes. And you can bet your sweet bippy if Floyd would have been white he would not be dead. I firmly believe that. I'll be among the first to admit there are absolutely times when the police are 100% justified in deadly force. But when this crap happens it just undermines the good officers and the legitimate reasons why force is sometimes necessary.
 
mendelman said:
April 29, 1992
Sublime

[Verse 2]
When we returned to the pad to unload everything
It dawned on me that I need new home furnishings
So, once again, we filled the van until it was full
Since that day, my living room's been much more comfortable
'Cause everybody in the hood has had it up to here
It's getting hotter, and hotter and harder, each and every year
Some kids went in a store with their mother
I saw her when she came out, she was getting some Pampers
They said it was for the black man
They said it was for the Mexican, and not for the white man
But if you look at the street, it wasn't about Rodney King
And this fucked up situation, and these fucked up police
It's about coming up and staying on top
And screaming, "187 on a motherfuckin' cop"
It's not in the paper, it's on the wall
National Guard
Smoke from all around

mskis - The above should give some insight.
Click to expand...
Gedunker said:
"Please, I can't breathe". That's why they riot. That, and every fucking card stacked against young, African American males, who know, there but for the grace of God, go I.

I don't blame them one bit.
Click to expand...

Hey, I get it. People are mad and they have every right to be. There is zero question about that. I am mad about the situation too and I had a conversation with our police chief about it and what the department does to prevent situations like this from occurring here.

But my question is does their anger justify their actions? Let's say you are an employee of that Target and you need that income from the hours worked. What happens to you for the next couple of days? Same goes for the small business owners in downtowns that have their front windows bashed in and all their goods taking and their shop trashed? Why punish them?

I whole heatedly support their protesting and I think that it should be in front of the Minneapolis Police Department. Let your voice and your presence voice your anger... not your violence and destruction.


Planit said:
I think the intensity of the situation escalated because just a couple days earlier, the man in Georgia killers were finally arrested after it being ignored by the local police, then just a day or 2 ago, 'karen' called the cops on a man who just asked her to leash her dog to follow the rules...there was a bit extra tension/frustration/anger that had built up.

Then today a man asked a couple others if they were tenants of the building & questioned if they were allowed to use the gym...again in Minneapolis!

The racism issues have increased over the last 3.5 years - I wonder where the correlation is? Hummmmmm!

tRump blasted the protestors (as he should), but he encouraged the armed protestors at state capitols just days earlier.
Click to expand...

Trump is making the situation worse, but I think that the cultural problem goes deeper than his hateful rhetoric.

MD Planner said:
I think it's just sheer and utter frustration. This keeps happening. And not a damned thing changes. And you can bet your sweet bippy if Floyd would have been white he would not be dead. I firmly believe that. I'll be among the first to admit there are absolutely times when the police are 100% justified in deadly force. But when this crap happens it just undermines the good officers and the legitimate reasons why force is sometimes necessary.
Click to expand...
I agree, and even when they are 100% justified as in this recent local case, there is panic about the potential for public outcry such as this... but it is because situations like what happened to Floyd that cause that concern. The current Police Chief in Minneapolis took the job after the last Chief was fired because a black cop shot and killed an unarmed white woman in 2017. I think that race was absolutely a factor in Floyd's death and I wonder if that situation from a few years ago has caused greater issues in the department.
 
Last edited:
So I think the issue is that to address the rioting, you have to address the underlying reasons why people riot, and that's not going to be easy to do. Also, there's the whole psychology of mob mentality that gets triggered at some point in the process of a protest becoming a mob.

I think you have to kind of look at that riots as a symptom rather than a self-contained problem. People have pent up anger, frustration, fear, anxiety, and don't have a good outlet for it. They get into a crowded place around a lot of other people that have all these pent up huge emotions, and people don't have the capacity to absorb small sleights and things escalate quickly. You're wound up as tight as you can be, and someone bumps into you, or a police officer puts an arm on your shoulder to tell you not to cross a line, or maybe someone just tells you to take a deep breath and get yourself together. And that small bump or nudge or tone of voice is the final straw to set you over the edge that you've barely been clinging to. All of a sudden there's an actual outlet for all that rage and emotion.

Sure, there are people that are opportunistic in those situations, but I think the vast majority of it isn't rational - it's completely emotional. People aren't strategically staging riots - riots are happening because there's not an outlet for all that emotion.

So I think we can say both that riots are terrible and innocent people are harmed, but also work to come from a place of understanding for those who are involved. Kind of the same way you would respond to a child that is having a temper tantrum. A temper tantrum isn't acceptable behavior, BUT the best way to resolve it isn't to punish the kid for having a tantrum, but to understand what caused it and develop strategies to address the underlying issue (helping the child communicate their feelings, work on developing coping skills, addressing real issues that may have led to the pent up emotions). In the case of black Americans experiencing ongoing discrimination that leads to indefensible violence against them, the underlying cause that needs to be addressed is frustratingly systemic, and until we are able to make real progress towards resolving that, we're going to continue to see these kinds of responses.
 
I look at the riots the same way I look at the quiet kid who finally snaps on his bully and whoops his ass on the school bus. You can only take so much before the anger boils over.
 
AG74683 said:
I look at the riots the same way I look at the quiet kid who finally snaps on his bully and whoops his ass on the school bus. You can only take so much before the anger boils over.
Click to expand...

I disagree. The appropriate analogy would be the quiet kid who finally snaps because of the bully and starts berating the crap out everyone on the bus including the bus driver.
 
No analogies needed. This is very clear.

The actions of the PO(s) that murdered Floyd were illegal and morally reprehensible.

The looting and property destruction of unrelated and innocent entities/individuals is illegal and morally reprehensible.

Peaceful protesting and government policing is moral and legal.

I can make these distinctions, but I know why many can't or won't.
 
Saw this earlier today and it seemed pretty spot on to me.

1940's: Yup, black man gets killed by any person just because. No arrests, that's just the way things are. Don't question it.

1950's: A wife shares a story that she thinks her husband, a black man, was murdered by a cop. No arrests, she's just one crazy lady with no proof.

1960's: It's well known in a community that a particular police officer killed that black man. No arrests though, Should have had eye witnesses step forward.

1970's: Here's a first hand account of a group of people that say cops murdered a black man. They all corroborate and it seems like clear cut proof. No arrests, should have had a photograph as evidence.

1980's: Here's a photo that shows cops murdering a black man that looks like clear cut proof. Nope, no arrests, needed video.

1990's: Here's a grainy home video that shows cops murdering a black black man that looks like clear cut proof. No arrests. Needed a stationary camera with a better, more consistent angle and a clearer picture.

2000's: Here's a security camera with decent video and a clear stationary angle that shows cops murdering a black man that looks like clear cut proof. No arrests. Can't tell what the victim was saying, may have been threatening the police.

2010's: Here's a dozen high quality cell phone videos, in addition to multiple angles from police body cams, all showing different angles of the same incident. They all show cops murdering a black man, clear cut proof! No arrests though. The whole thing happened so fast that officers were forced to make split decisions.

2020: Here is a very high quality, slow motion video with crystal clear audio, names, faces, and the entire encounter from start to finish. No threats, only a black man asking for half the weight of a grown man to be removed from the back of his neck so he could breathe. What will the narrative be this time?
 
mendelman said:
April 29, 1992
Sublime

[Verse 2]
When we returned to the pad to unload everything
It dawned on me that I need new home furnishings
So, once again, we filled the van until it was full
Since that day, my living room's been much more comfortable
'Cause everybody in the hood has had it up to here
It's getting hotter, and hotter and harder, each and every year
Some kids went in a store with their mother
I saw her when she came out, she was getting some Pampers
They said it was for the black man
They said it was for the Mexican, and not for the white man
But if you look at the street, it wasn't about Rodney King
And this fucked up situation, and these fucked up police
It's about coming up and staying on top
And screaming, "187 on a motherfuckin' cop"
It's not in the paper, it's on the wall
National Guard
Smoke from all around

mskis - The above should give some insight.
Click to expand...



 
Doohickie said:
and what's up with this guy?
Click to expand...

There's a lot going around that says the guy in that video is actually a St. Paul police officer. It's unproven right now, but the whole thing is pretty suspicious. That gas mask isn't some cheapo Amazon one. Apparently it's a standard issue police mask that retails for around $300 to the general public. There's some sort of text message screen shots out there of the guys ex wife saying it's him, but of course that's unsubstantiated. Either way, it's extremely odd.
 
AG74683 said:
There's a lot going around that says the guy in that video is actually a St. Paul police officer. It's unproven right now, but the whole thing is pretty suspicious. That gas mask isn't some cheapo Amazon one. Apparently it's a standard issue police mask that retails for around $300 to the general public. There's some sort of text message screen shots out there of the guys ex wife saying it's him, but of course that's unsubstantiated. Either way, it's extremely odd.
Click to expand...
Why the umbrella?
 
DVD said:
It can deflect some of the lighter crap that's being thrown around. Glass shards, etc. If he happens to be from Hong Kong, it's a symbol of protest there.
Click to expand...
Interesting. I was not aware.
 
I'm wound up as hell over all of this. Sick to my stomach over it. I'm a black planner, one of the very few - I wouldn't be surprised if there were only high hundreds to low thousands of us in the whole profession in the US, even fewer in management roles. I'm also the dad of a toddler, and the weight of recent events have hit me like a ten ton anvil - fearing for him and his little life, now and in the years to come.

I feel like I should be doing more as both a a man of color and an AICP planner to try to make things right. I've had it good, I've lived a charmed life, and I stand on the backs of others who got firehoses and dogs turned on them so that I can be here.

I haven't figured out how to make any of what I'm feeling actionable just yet.
 
If you do, let us know and we'll do it. The most I've figured out is writing my politicians. One senator is a dumb @ss more worried about blaming China for the virus than good policing. Got a form response and nothing else.
 
Holy crap, the Tulsa Race Massacre made CNN's front page. Yesterday was the 99 year anniversary. I had no idea this even happened until I watched HBO's "Watchmen", and even after I watched that episode, I had no clue it wasn't just some fictional event in an alternate US history. It was never taught in school, and no one even mentions it.

en.wikipedia.org

Tulsa race massacre - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

White supremacists literally used airplanes to bomb African American owned businesses. Tulsa was home to the wealthiest African American community in the United States at the time, it was commonly referred to as "Black Wall Street". It's the single largest act of racial violence in United States history, and it's largely been swept under the rug.
 
Back
Top