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NEVERENDING ♾️ The NEVERENDING Political Discussion Thread

I get the outrage of some folks about President Trump's antics, but I don't understand the shock. He's doing EXACTLY what he said he would during the campaign. Now, the fact that many of his supporters are being potentially screwed by his orders and decisions is absolutely hilarious to me. I can't deny it, I'm enjoying this shit show from both sides. Because really, what else can you do except laugh?

I've said it before, anything that gets Congress and the President tied up in gridlock is just fine by me. In my mind, gridlock is preferable to anything else because I have zero confidence in our federal government accomplishing anything meaningful to the average American.
 
MD Planner said:
He's doing EXACTLY what he said he would during the campaign.
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Because that's a pretty rare thing to do this early in the first term. We're used to campaign promises dying out or getting dragged out in Congress so long people forget about the promise in the first place. I mean most President's take the oath of office, and then disappear for a month or two. Trump has thrown that entire policy manual in the trash and is doing whatever he (or rather Steve Bannon) wants to do.
 
gtpeach said:
I'm not a conservative by any stretch of the imagination, but that's the best argument for giving as much power as possible to the lower levels of government, right? I was thinking about this on the way in to work. My issue is that this results/has resulted in extreme inequities, but when you try to make policies that meet the needs of both urban and rural areas, you end up compromising to a point where it doesn't really help either of them much. Or you end up favoring one over the other - and usually that's the urban areas since that's where the voters are.
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Just look at the turnout in most local municipal elections. That alone says a lot about how dysfunctional things are.

I think we need to take a look at other models for inspiration. In Switzerland, the structure of authority is essentially reversed (communal -> cantonal -> federal) compared to the United States (federal -> state -> local). Since the local governments retain a considerable amount of autonomy, you essentially have a more fragmented (but also far more stable) system of government, and one that is more direct. It's not to say the government would be without mistakes in that kind of model, but at least when they occur at a lower level they would not be catastrophic in their impact.
 
MD Planner said:
I get the outrage of some folks about President Trump's antics, but I don't understand the shock. He's doing EXACTLY what he said he would during the campaign. Now, the fact that many of his supporters are being potentially screwed by his orders and decisions is absolutely hilarious to me. I can't deny it, I'm enjoying this shit show from both sides. Because really, what else can you do except laugh?
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Yep.

Those were my thoughts exactly.

WSU MUP Student said:
I dunno... a candidate runs on a platform of curtailing 1st Amendment, 4th Amendment, and 5th Amendment rights (among others), threatens political opponents with jail (and alludes to worse), etc. and then gets elected and we suddenly shouldn't be worried anymore about the policies he's proposed and his temperament? :r:
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HomerJ said:
Just look at the turnout in most local municipal elections. That alone says a lot about how dysfunctional things are.

I think we need to take a look at other models for inspiration. In Switzerland, the structure of authority is essentially reversed (communal -> cantonal -> federal) compared to the United States (federal -> state -> local). Since the local governments retain a considerable amount of autonomy, you essentially have a more fragmented (but also far more stable) system of government, and one that is more direct. It's not to say the government would be without mistakes in that kind of model, but at least when they occur at a lower level they would not be catastrophic in their impact.
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gtpeach said:
I'm not a conservative by any stretch of the imagination, but that's the best argument for giving as much power as possible to the lower levels of government, right? I was thinking about this on the way in to work. My issue is that this results/has resulted in extreme inequities, but when you try to make policies that meet the needs of both urban and rural areas, you end up compromising to a point where it doesn't really help either of them much. Or you end up favoring one over the other - and usually that's the urban areas since that's where the voters are.
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:lmao:


I have been saying this for years. It does not matter what party is in the WH, we need to focus on local regulations because our local leaders are in the best position to do what is right for the community. Not some suit in DC.
 
michaelskis said:
:lmao:


I have been saying this for years. It does not matter what party is in the WH, we need to focus on local regulations because our local leaders are in the best position to do what is right for the community. Not some suit in DC.
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I both agree and disagree. It makes sense theoretically, except that I don't think the mechanisms are in place to do this well. When I think about our local boards making some of these decisions, I cringe. We'd have to be willing to devote the necessary resources for them to understand the issues they're voting on. Some cities may do this already, but I can't imagine our local governing board being able to sort through the complexities of the issues that they'd need to for them to really have that kind of decision-making ability.

When it comes down to it, maybe it doesn't matter since it depends on what voters want. But I tend to have a high view of the importance of analysis, so the idea makes me uncomfortable without significant effort put into creating a culture shift.
 
So did anyone actually move out of the US after Trump got elected or took office? There was a big list of people who promised to and they were serious about it! :lmao:
 
Maister said:
I have no idea how many immigration applications were submitted or approved, but I did hear Americans caused the Canadian immigration website to actually crash on election night...here it is:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/...s-crashed-canadian-immigration-site/93587034/
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And... how many followed through?

Once again, I have no love for Trump and he is an idiot, but I think the US would be better off without all these people who threatened to move if Trump or Hillary got elected. If they were not willing to stick it out, they should not live here.
 
I imagine the same number of people moved out (or will move out) due to Trump's election as those who threatened to leave the country if Obama were elected (or re-elected, or if Obamacare were passed, etc.) and actually followed through.
 
I joked about moving out of the country. But really, I'm just going to take advantage of as many opportunities as I can to travel outside the U.S.
 
I would like to move & live in another country, but that is because I think it would be an interesting experience and has nothing to do with the Cheeto.
 
So there is now a bill to eliminate the department of Ed. What would you think is a better solution, eliminating the Dept of Ed, or let DeVos run it.

I am also surprised with the number of public school administrators who have worked with her personally who support her, including Grand Rapids.
 
michaelskis said:
I am also surprised with the number of public school administrators who have worked with her personally who support her, including Grand Rapids.
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Did she donate to their cause, or election?

----

On another note, I think we all give up a little of our personal lives when we go into public service. We lose some rights. Trump seems to think he can have everything. Tweeting about his daughter is sad, but in reality his position just shouldn't allow that to happen any longer. He can pretend it is about supporting his children, but he is the President of the US. Your words mean something. Act like an adult and realize that you can't disparage a brand or company or whatever, just because they did something you don't like....

Ugh.
 
News this morning:

The hairy cheeto says now (after a couple weeks) that he wanted to delay his Muslim Ban for a month, but law enforcement officials told him no. First of all, why is he saying this 2 weeks after the fact - why won't he identify the law enforcement officials - why did he slam a judge for halting the ban - why...I think we all know the real answer and not the alternative facts.


Speaking of alternative facts, Spicer now commented that their was an Islamic attack in Atlanta. bubba, you okay?
 
Hink said:
Did she donate to their cause, or election?
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Not sure, but I know that she worked quite a bit with Grand Rapids Public Schools. My kid attended a GRPS operated charter school for Kindergarten. It was extremely popular in our neighborhood. Grand Rapids Public Schools Superintendent Teresa Weatherall Neal is one who supports her and has been vocal about saything that she will do a good job. (Wood TV Link)

Hink said:
On another note, I think we all give up a little of our personal lives when we go into public service. We lose some rights. Trump seems to think he can have everything. Tweeting about his daughter is sad, but in reality his position just shouldn't allow that to happen any longer. He can pretend it is about supporting his children, but he is the President of the US. Your words mean something. Act like an adult and realize that you can't disparage a brand or company or whatever, just because they did something you don't like....

Ugh.
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I agree, but I think it is more complicated than that. Why is Nordstroms and others doing this to his daughter? Does Trump have money or influence in her Daughter's company? I agree what Trump should not have tweeted what he did, or said it publicly, but I also don't think that people should attack his daughter.
 
michaelskis said:
Not sure, but I know that she worked quite a bit with Grand Rapids Public Schools. My kid attended a GRPS operated charter school for Kindergarten. It was extremely popular in our neighborhood. Grand Rapids Public Schools Superintendent Teresa Weatherall Neal is one who supports her and has been vocal about saything that she will do a good job. (Wood TV Link)



I agree, but I think it is more complicated than that. Why is Nordstroms and others doing this to his daughter? Does Trump have money or influence in her Daughter's company? I agree what Trump should not have tweeted what he did, or said it publicly, but I also don't think that people should attack his daughter.
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Maybe they did it because they don't like him? They have that right. Just as people have a right to boycott businesses who support Trump. It is that whole freedom on expression, etc. My problem is that he uses is position of authority to get what he wants.... which is the definition of conflict of interest.
 
Hink said:
Maybe they did it because they don't like him? They have that right. Just as people have a right to boycott businesses who support Trump. It is that whole freedom on expression, etc. My problem is that he uses is position of authority to get what he wants.... which is the definition of conflict of interest.
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You say him, which I agree with, I don't like him either. But it it is her company that they are dropping? Or is it his with her name on it?

In terms of Trump, I agree with you 100%. He is a thin skinned crybaby who needs to shut up about this kind of crap.



Back to the Department of ED. Justin Amash is now co-sponsoring the bill to eliminate the Dept of Ed. Amash is also the congressional rep for Dick and Betsy DeVos who live in Ada Michigan and were huge funders of his campain. In fact his dad is super tight with Dick and Betsy, and there were several fundraising events for Amash when we was first running at the DeVos compound.

Well done Justin, well done!
 
michaelskis said:
Back to the Department of ED. Justin Amash is now co-sponsoring the bill to eliminate the Dept of Ed. Amash is also the congressional rep for Dick and Betsy DeVos who live in Ada Michigan and were huge funders of his campain. In fact his dad is super tight with Dick and Betsy, and there were several fundraising events for Amash when we was first running at the DeVos compound.

Well done Justin, well done!
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Found this article explain what Ms. BetsyWetsy did to/for the Michigan public schools:

http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/betsy-devos-is-coming-for-your-children-1792123973

Circumventing public school integration has succeeded.




I know there's a bunch of Michiganders here...chime in if anything's out of sort here.
 
Planit said:
Found this article explain what Ms. BetsyWetsy did to/for the Michigan public schools:

http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/betsy-devos-is-coming-for-your-children-1792123973

Circumventing public school integration has succeeded.




I know there's a bunch of Michiganders here...chime in if anything's out of sort here.
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Let me continue by saying that I don't support her in this position for a host of reasons.

However that article is mostly correct, but not 100%. One thing that they forgot to mention was the public school run charter schools. These schools get to operate by slightly different rules and allow for specialty programs. My oldest attended one such program that was part of Grand Rapids Public School. We did not pay anything extra out of pocket to send him to a Reggio Emilia school. Moreso it had a wide range of kids who attended. Some kids lived in poverty, others where the kids of the doctors from the nearby hospital.

Let me also add that DeVos did not come up with this approach, but she did help support it with Grand Rapids Public Schools. In other places like Detroit, their system was a steaming pile of failing crap well before she got involved. She did little to make it better.

What I do support is the elimination of the Department of Education at the federal level. After all, we had schools before the late 70's. Why do we need a federal agency to oversee something that should be controlled at the state level.
 
Planit said:
Found this article explain what Ms. BetsyWetsy did to/for the Michigan public schools:

http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/betsy-devos-is-coming-for-your-children-1792123973

Circumventing public school integration has succeeded.




I know there's a bunch of Michiganders here...chime in if anything's out of sort here.
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Yup.

That article sums up the situation here in Metro Detroit pretty well. I cannot really speak for the rest of the state though as demographic and economic situations in each of the states metro areas are always vastly different and we really get relatively little news here about what's happening in Grand Rapids or Ann Arbor or Saginaw... But yeah, the charters here in Metro Detroit, and in the city specifically, are sort of a joke and every couple of years a new batch of them seems to pop-up all over the place but particularly in the economically depressed areas. Having the schools being able to operate as for-profit entities is what really baffles me. Basically, the charter school can come into an already depressed area, siphon away the students from the regulated public schools, and the money that would come from the state for that particular student, and bring them into their for-profit school with no regulation. The public school and all the remaining public school students are left worse off because they lose students and funding and more importantly lose students whose parents are involved enough to at least make the decision (for better or worse) while the student who moves to the charter school is generally entering a school that has demonstrated that they provide poorer outcomes in the majority of cases. I'm not saying that the public schools in Detroit or all of the suburban districts are efficiently run or provide perfect outcomes, but I think we would have had much better long term results if we would have concentrated on improving the existing public school system rather than introducing a new form of public schools that draw from the same limited pool of tax dollars without addressing the underlying problems.

FWIW, I am generally not a fan of charter schools or schools of choice.

Knowing that the DeVos family is behind a big push for charter schools in Michigan usually just makes me think they (the charter schools) are just some sort of massive pyramid scheme. And not that she's the Secretary of Education I expect my daughter's next fund raising event at her elementary school to involve her recruiting 2 or 3 other students to fund raise for her.
 
I'm just glad The Girl will be in high school next year so she'll be out or close to out before major $hi+ hits the fan.
 
At the rate we're going how ugly will the 2018 mid term campaign & election get ?
 
So no one has commented...

What would be better. DeVos running the Dept of Ed, or the elimination of the Dept of Ed?
 
michaelskis said:
So no one has commented...

What would be better. DeVos running the Dept of Ed, or the elimination of the Dept of Ed?
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You make it sound like that's an either/or proposition. I am of the opinion DeVos was expressly appointed to oversee the dismantling.
 
Maister said:
You make it sound like that's an either/or proposition. I am of the opinion DeVos was expressly appointed to oversee the dismantling.
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Well, being that she was just appointed to run it and continue to do what she did in Michigan (which was less than awesome but quite as bad as the doom and gloom that people are preaching, close, but not quite)

but there is a bill in congress to eliminate it...

It sounds like it is an either/or proposition because it is.
 
Given the two options, I think I'd rather see it dismantled. I'd assume there would still be an office that did the federal work that would need to be done as far as financial considerations, and maybe conducting research and stuff like that. What I would hate to see happen is a federal effort to divert public funds to private schools in the form of vouchers, though.
 
So I guess the White House website will some have ads running on it for the Ivanka clothing line, the Trump clothing line, Trump steaks, Trump real estate listings and Meliana's non-existent so-to-be-released line.
 
michaelskis said:
but there is a bill in congress to eliminate it...
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Yes, and the timing of its' introduction is no coincidence. It's kinda like saying 'we're going to eliminate this dept. and here is an appointee that will do everything in her power to ensure that outcome eventually happens even in the event this bill doesn't pass'
 
And so my hopes that the GOP would not work with Trump are dwindling faster and faster. With few exceptions, they are all sheep to the party.
 
. . . . when you come to the realization that a few tanks full of good guys breaking through the White House fence is a legitimate option.
 
michaelskis said:
Well done to the Canadian Prime Minister for beating Trump at the bully pull handshake.
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I think I'd take it the opposite way, let him basically pull me over. Make a big show of falling to the ground, get my security to rush in calling a big stir with the Secret Service. Make a giant fracas out of it. God it would be hilarious.
 
Tom Price's confirmation as HHS Sec means a special election (open, no primaries) for my Congressional district - current entry list is seven Rs, two Ds, and one Independent (so, yeah, there will be a runoff election as well). One of the Rs is my state senator, which means another special election to replace him as well (since he resigned to make his run at Congress). Yippee.
 
Bubba said:
Tom Price's confirmation as HHS Sec means a special election (open, no primaries) for my Congressional district - current entry list is seven Rs, two Ds, and one Independent (so, yeah, there will be a runoff election as well). One of the Rs is my state senator, which means another special election to replace him as well (since he resigned to make his run at Congress). Yippee.
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At least you guys get run-off elections down there. I've always liked that idea.
 
Planit said:
Obama golfing = not doing his job and/or laziness

Trump golfing = diplomacy
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Trump going to his semi-private / members-only club = Okiedokie to spend $3million a day!

Obama to Hawaii for a $1million a day = WASTE OF MONEY

Yea, it is just silly. It goes both ways though. The democrats need to not pick on the stupid things the R's did. It will be a bit harder as Trump doesn't seem to be taking this all that seriously.... which makes taking a vacation just seem unneeded.


--

Mike Flynn resigned. *Yawn*.
 
Hink said:
Mike Flynn resigned. *Yawn*.
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That is ok, he will get a nice job working for Putin.



On a side note, I wonder what all these conspiracy groups think of Trump. You know, the ones that say the Skull and Bones secret society or the Jekyll Island Club actually controls everything.
 
Hink said:
--

Mike Flynn resigned. *Yawn*.
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Flynn is the third person to resign from Team Trump in less than a year, all over ties to Russia. Manafort & Page being the others during the campaign. The GOP Congress basically had the same hinky response *yawn* but I thinks something more will come of this eventually. Tillerson may be the next Russian puppet in line.
 
AIB Stephen Miller

"the powers of the planner to protect our county are very substantial and will not be questioned,"
 
Maister said:
I would guess Spicer before Conway
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I'd say it's 50/50, but I've read that Trump is mostly on the outs with Conway. Spicer would be an ideal target though because then he'd get back at SNL. That said, Kate McKinnon would make a great Conway!
 
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