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The end of innocence: believing in Santa [split from Random Thoughts]

Gedunker

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I have suspected that my soon to be 12 year old son still believes in Santa. I just got proof that his world in starting to crumble a little, though.

He just called to tell me he got home okay and I could hear something in his voice. When I asked him, he hesitated at first, then explained that they are reading about the Loch Ness Monster and that his teacher explained that the LNM is not real, just like Santa isn't real. In a quavering voice "Is Santa real, Dad?"

Yes, son, he's as real as rain.

This will probably be the last Christmas he believes. I'm not about to spoil it for him.:a:
 
This will probably be the last Christmas he believes. I'm not about to spoil it for him.:a:

Watched Polar Express again the other night. Strange in it's own way but handles that question very well. Watch it with him.
 
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Watched Polar Express again the other night. Strange in it's own way but handles that question very well. Watch it with him.

We've seen it and own a copy. In fact I told him his teacher probably 'can't hear the bell anymore'. Mrs. G called him to ask about his day and he didn't mention it to her, so perhaps this will pass without much more ado.
 
I have suspected that my soon to be 12 year old son still believes in Santa. I just got proof that his world in starting to crumble a little, though.

He just called to tell me he got home okay and I could hear something in his voice. When I asked him, he hesitated at first, then explained that they are reading about the Loch Ness Monster and that his teacher explained that the LNM is not real, just like Santa isn't real. In a quavering voice "Is Santa real, Dad?"

Yes, son, he's as real as rain.

This will probably be the last Christmas he believes. I'm not about to spoil it for him.:a:


My seven-year old son is starting to waiver in his belief in Santa. He quizzed me on it twice in the last week. He has me on logic. He put two and two together. Santa gave him a present last year (a Ben 10 omnitrix). A couple months ago he put the arm on me to buy him a different version and I absent mindedly told what was wrong with the one I gave him at Christmas. I told him, "Oh I forgot Santa brought you that." I don't think he is buying it. I did point out that if he didn't beleive in Santa, he wouldn't get a present from him, which restored his belief (at least to appease Papa and get another present.) I am sure his belief in the Tooth Fairy will continue until he stop losing baby teeth. ;)
 
I have suspected that my soon to be 12 year old son still believes in Santa. I just got proof that his world in starting to crumble a little, though. ...In a quavering voice "Is Santa real, Dad?"
...
My older niece, a Greedy Person, decided to maintain the fiction because she thought she'd get more presents. I think she was younger than 12. Sis and I had figured things out by age ten or so.

Your son is either an only child, or lives a sheltered life, or hasn't checked some basic facts. (Bazillons of deliveries all over the world in 24 hours done by someone who's not at the peak of his athletic prowess? Homes lacking chimneys? How can he set up at all these malls in late November when he should be in the workshop wrapping things up? Etc.)

Not being critical, just sayin' ...can puberty be far behind.
 
I have suspected that my soon to be 12 year old son still believes in Santa. I just got proof that his world in starting to crumble a little, though.

He just called to tell me he got home okay and I could hear something in his voice. When I asked him, he hesitated at first, then explained that they are reading about the Loch Ness Monster and that his teacher explained that the LNM is not real, just like Santa isn't real. In a quavering voice "Is Santa real, Dad?"

Yes, son, he's as real as rain.

This will probably be the last Christmas he believes. I'm not about to spoil it for him.:a:

it is nice to hear that there are still kids out there who aren't so jaded and cynical.

we still get presents from Santa. and Mrs. Claus. and Frosty. and Rudolph. and the Elves. :)
 
I discovered Santa wasn't real when I was 19 and in the Marines in Japan and there was nothing under my fake plastic tree when I awoke on Christmas morning. :-(
 
My older niece, a Greedy Person, decided to maintain the fiction because she thought she'd get more presents. I think she was younger than 12. Sis and I had figured things out by age ten or so.

Your son is either an only child, or lives a sheltered life, or hasn't checked some basic facts. (Bazillons of deliveries all over the world in 24 hours done by someone who's not at the peak of his athletic prowess? Homes lacking chimneys? How can he set up at all these malls in late November when he should be in the workshop wrapping things up? Etc.)

Not being critical, just sayin' ...can puberty be far behind.
I hope, for your sake, that your tongue is in cheek (although your post is still pretty borderline). :r:
 
I discovered Santa wasn't real when I was 19 and in the Marines in Japan and there was nothing under my fake plastic tree when I awoke on Christmas morning. :-(

Sometimes I just have to bite my lip and not say anything about whether it's a reflection on the individual or Marines in general so I'll be nice. This old Army grunt says Semper Fi! I do have to ask about the "fake plastic tree" though. Was it wood that had been painted to look like plastic?
 
I have suspected that my soon to be 12 year old son still believes in Santa. I just got proof that his world in starting to crumble a little, though.

He just called to tell me he got home okay and I could hear something in his voice. When I asked him, he hesitated at first, then explained that they are reading about the Loch Ness Monster and that his teacher explained that the LNM is not real, just like Santa isn't real. In a quavering voice "Is Santa real, Dad?"

Yes, son, he's as real as rain.

This will probably be the last Christmas he believes. I'm not about to spoil it for him.:a:

A friend's 7 year old daughter was having her hair cut, and the stylist asked, "So, do you still believe in Santa?" Well, I suppose she did until that blockhead asked the question. It's a shame that some folks talk before they think, and that others enjoy taking this from them.

I wouldn't spoil it for him, either. I'm sure that he is taught at school to believe in other things he can't see, and to have faith in things he can't see.

So, how does the teacher know that LNM isn't real? ;-)
 
I hope, for your sake, that your tongue is in cheek (although your post is still pretty borderline). :r:

12 is pretty old to still have the Santa thing going. My kid gave it up around 9 when he caught me playing Tooth Fairy. I think I was over it by 10 and that was back in the '60's. Kids only have a few years between being terrified of Santa (at least at the mall...) and stopping believing.
 
Homes lacking chimneys?

When she was about 6 Mrs. O was concerned that Santa would not be able to deliver toys since they had moved to a house without a chimney. Her father told her Santa was magic and could go through the walls. She asked if the presents were magic, too (thinking it would be cool to have toys that could go through a wall). He thought fast and said they were magic as long as they were in Santa's bag.
 
You folks seem to be suggesting that there's no such thing as Santa. Is that right? Did he die or something and nobody told me? Because I'm expecting big things from him this year.
 
My older niece, a Greedy Person, decided to maintain the fiction because she thought she'd get more presents. I think she was younger than 12. Sis and I had figured things out by age ten or so.

Your son is either an only child, or lives a sheltered life, or hasn't checked some basic facts. (Bazillons of deliveries all over the world in 24 hours done by someone who's not at the peak of his athletic prowess? Homes lacking chimneys? How can he set up at all these malls in late November when he should be in the workshop wrapping things up? Etc.)

Not being critical, just sayin' ...can puberty be far behind.

Critical? You?

I think some kids just choose to believe longer. Deep down inside they really know, but they've decided to keep the fun going as long as they can. At some point, they realize it's just all silly-business. Some kids realize this at 5, some at 8, some at 10, and yes, some at 12.

Let the kid enjoy his Christmas. You make it sound like he's going to grow up socially inept.
 
I am not a parent, but i have no idea why it would be wrong for a 12 year old to still believe in Santa- apart from the fact their peers might tease them a bit over it.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with letting kids be kids and believing in things that makes childhood so magical.

Additional to this, neither do i think its fair having a dig at another persons child, on an open public forum.:r:
 
R.T. gave up on Santa when she was about 8 I think. My mom had said something about Santa to her and she said "Nana, I know he's not real so you don't have to pretend." My mom and I had a good chuckle about it.
 
I hope, for your sake, that your tongue is in cheek (although your post is still pretty borderline). :r:
Borderline meaning...??

Let's deconstruct what I typed before others line up to slam me.

Your son is either an only child
Older sibs tend to influence child-raising. So do younger ones. (I have a sister who's five years younger than me, and I can recall a discussion about not disabusing her of her beliefs.) Kids can have friends and cross paths with others holding differing viewpoints or at different stages in their lives thanks to their older sibs, cousins, and friends.
Being an only child is not a bad thing.

or lives a sheltered life
This is not a synonym for any other phrase or word (although some seem to be filtering it as such). I grew up in a 'burb, sheltered from urban life. Now I live in a city, sheltered from 2-acre lots and malls.
In today's world, with media, video games, peers, friends at school, billboards, newscasts, ad nauseum, it would be difficult to raise a child sheltered from the realities of SC, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, and so forth.
Being sheltered is not a bad thing.

or hasn't checked some basic facts
There's an internet forward that goes around every year pointing out how SC violates many of the basic laws of physics. (If memory serves, the bottom line is roughly a couple times the speed of light.) Many children encounter the personage at several shopping malls throughout the season. Some test their theories by beard-pulling or "remember what you gave me last year -- what I told you last week?"
Not being interested in physics is not a bad thing.

I have no influence on Gedunker's child (hope the poor little guy doesn't read Cyburbia). I'd rather read about early middle schoolers still believing in SC than asking for (and getting) horrendous shoot-em-up video games.

My first paragraph referred to a relative of mine. I am her only relative on this "open public forum." The use of capitalization was intended to be evocative of a certain writing style (and I can refer you to the author and some of his works).

Lay off me, folks.

HTH
 
I hope, for your sake, that your tongue is in cheek (although your post is still pretty borderline). :r:

I'm with Vel on this one. I don't see that kind of intent in any of her other work. I can understand your reaction but IMHO you started to pull the mod flag out of your pocket way too early.
 
Would somebody on the Cyburbia staff make 'children believing in Santa' a separate thread?

(Please?!)

Moderator note:

(Gedunker) Your request is my command. Thread split from RTDNTOTO.
 
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I think you did wrong in perpetuating this myth to a 12 yo! :-c I mean he asked you right out and you lied! And he is 6 years from adulthood and he can't get a straight answer about Santa Claus? Go ahead and say SC lives on in our hearts and traditions and exists for the joy and excitement of youngsters (babies, preschoolers and little kids) but he is old enough to handle the news IMO.

Although it's a little sweet too, but don't let the middle school crowd get news of it!
 
two thoughts as a father of an 11 year old. Don't underestimate how weird a time this is for all kids AND parents. Schools getting harder, boys start entering the picture, it really is a transition period for me and her.

I suspect that she suspects Santa is not real but she has two little brothers and is a good kid so she keeps the myth working.

Zoning Godess and I have the same experience--the Tooth Fairy started the suspicion!

If asked directly, I will not lie.

I might answer, then watch the Polar Express, as suggested.
 
Borderline meaning...??

Let's deconstruct what I typed before others line up to slam me.

[snip]

Lay off me, folks.

HTH
Borderline...rude.

If your intent was not be rude, than you should have given your deconstructed explanation in the first post, and avoided the misunderstanding.
ofos said:
I'm with Vel on this one. I don't see that kind of intent in any of her other work. I can understand your reaction but IMHO you started to pull the mod flag out of your pocket way too early.
My post wasn't supposed be a "mod" action, but I can see how is would be perceived as such. But that doesn't change my mind that Veloise's post was rude.
 
Sometimes I just have to bite my lip and not say anything about whether it's a reflection on the individual or Marines in general so I'll be nice.
OK, I may have exaggerated a bit and been a bit old to believe in Santa but I like to tell my parents that that was when the mystery of Santa ended just to make them feel guilty about not getting me a Christmas gift in the mail a bit sooner. :a: ;)

I do have to ask about the "fake plastic tree" though. Was it wood that had been painted to look like plastic?

The fake plastic tree line is actually just a reference to a Radiohead song entitled Fake Plastic Trees. There was no tree up in my barracks room that year.
 
My older niece, a Greedy Person, decided to maintain the fiction because she thought she'd get more presents. I think she was younger than 12. Sis and I had figured things out by age ten or so.

Your son is either an only child, or lives a sheltered life, or hasn't checked some basic facts.

Not being critical, just sayin' ...can puberty be far behind.
I'm pretty sure it wasn't your intent to give offense when you posted this but I can easily see how this post could ruffle many parents' feathers.

When folks say 'not to interrupt but...' it really means 'to interrupt'. Similarly, when someone says 'not being critical' while offering a critique/analysis, it sets much the same tone. Comparing children and their development or parents and their policies is a high risk occupation, as it almost always carries an appearance of implied judgement, regardles of whether or not that be one's intent.

I don't think an apology would be out of order. It would probably smooth some feathers.
 
Fat Cat

I worked for a larger city years ago and I played santa for over ten years. There was Christmas party held at a union hall with food and presents.
the agreement with the union leadership was that no one was to know that I was Santa. I removed my rings and watch and Mrs Katt dropped me off a couple of blocks from the union hall (for many years my own children did not know that I did this) I had volunteers who were my elves. Presents were gift wrapped, and color coded by age and gender. Some times these were the only presents that the children were going to get. I would watch the parents as the child told me what they wanted for Christmas, if I saw a nod then I respond with the appropriate remark but not promise, if there a shake of the head or looking a the floor, then I would tell the child that they were going to be surprised and that I had a very special present just for them on Christmas. If the parent or adult with the child told the elf that this was going to be the only present that they were going get than the elf would whisper this in my ear, then I would tell the child that I had a very special present for them for Christmas and they were going to get it today, but they might have to wait until Christmas to open it. They didnt care that other children were getting presents, this was THEIRS. I would watch the children grow over the years and stand off to the side line at the Christmas party and not spoil it for the younger children. During these years I received Christmas ornament that I have and cherish to this day and I know that many of these children are now adults and probably have children of their own
Now I belong to organization that does a lot of volnteer work for children, scholorships, band instruments etc
But each year in addition to food baskets for families we do toys and winter clothing for children( recomendations form school teachers, bus drivers etc) Our fund raisers are held through out the year
We also recieve a significant amounts of funds from members of a national professional basket ball team in the area who do not want their names known
So I think that really is a Santa -- sometimes you seen him/her in others or maybe in the mirror
 
Yes, VELOISE, there is a Santa Claus. He exists as certainly as love and generosity and devotion exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life its highest beauty and joy. Alas! how dreary would be the world if there were no Santa Claus. It would be as dreary as if there were no VELOISES. There would be no childlike faith then, no poetry, no romance to make tolerable this existence. We should have no enjoyment, except in sense and sight. The eternal light with which childhood fills the world would be extinguished.

:)
 
So we are worried about ruffling parent's feathers now? And I don't know about anyone else but i did not find Velo's comment borderline rude or borderline anything, just plain talking, imho.

:)
 
So we are worried about ruffling parent's feathers now? And I don't know about anyone else but i did not find Velo's comment borderline rude or borderline anything, just plain talking, imho.

:)

Off Topic
It's not about ruffling parents' feathers. It's about the tone of certain posts and how they might be perceived. See Maisters' earlier post. This is a public forum but it is the responsibilty of posters to make sure that the tone of their posts are understood to guard against misconceptions. I'm not singling out Veloise here either by the way. I few properly placed smiley faces usually do the trick. That's why Dan provides them. :-D;)

As the father of two young daughters I have no intention of prolonging their belief in Santa. I'm certain that my 5.5 year old will begin to question me shortly and I won't lie to her, but I'll make her tell me what she thinks and go from there. If she decides she wants to believe until she's 12, I dont' care.
 
[ot]While I have been against social conventions with regard to electronic conversations for a while now (and have harped about it on the boards myself in the past), I also believe the tact should be used with regard to posting here and elsewhere on the Wire Service. Sure, I know I have been rude to folks before, but I am trying to subscribe to the school of "write things online, only that you would also say to someone's face" and it has worked well for me. Intentions or not, I believe that declaring someone's child to be sheltered or exhibiting a blatant criticism of parenting styles would not have occurred in a face-to-face conversation regardless of the intention.[/ot]

As for the topic at hand, I believe I was around 8 years old when my doubts came about. Of course, I am having doubts about the whole season right now (most particularly the gift giving and receiving aspect) so I am really not a source to discuss what Santa hisself brings to the table. As a childless adult, I am in no position to dictate when it is a good time for Santa to be discussed with one's children.
 
Off Topic
It's not about ruffling parents' feathers. It's about the tone of certain posts and how they might be perceived. See Maisters' earlier post. This is a public forum but it is the responsibilty of posters to make sure that the tone of their posts are understood to guard against misconceptions. I'm not singling out Veloise here either by the way. I few properly placed smiley faces usually do the trick. That's why Dan provides them..

[ot]:-D:-DIt's also why our Dan Father has provided the ability to PM each other with wise admonitions. Sometimes we need to use that capability instead of encouraging additional public comment. :-D:-D[/ot]

Ho Ho Ho!, On Prancer, On Dancer, On Dasher, On Topic...:g::g::g:.
 
Mr and Mrs Clause have come to my Mom's house for years, and even though our kids and most of the nieces and nephews are in on "TBL" (The Big Lie) it doesn't diminish the fun.
 

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I have every intention of prolonging the belief in Santa as long as we can. Right now, Santa is an extremely effective disciplinary tool for taming twin four year olds. Just thing morning, I pretended to put Santa on speed dial on the home phone so that the twins understood that if they bicker, I've got the red hot line to Santa.

I also think it's important to instill a sense of wonder in our children and Santa Claus is an excellent way to talk about things that we can't explain perfectly or scientifically, but just are (along with the miracle of the virgin birth, if you're so inclined). The cruel hard world beats it out of them soon enough.
 
I stopped believing around age 7. I was actually more suspicious about the Easter Bunny. How the hell could he be at every nice restaurant and banquet hall at the same time? My mom told me he wasn't real. Then I started questioning Santa and his appearance at every mall all day throughout the season. He simply can't be a thousand places at once. And we never had a fireplace/chimney either, so how did he pull that one off? Eventually it was too many questions for my mom to answer and she told me. My brothers were both older, so once I stopped believing, it was kind of a relief on them to not have to keep pretending for my sake. I actually didn't feel bad about it when I found out the news. I actually kind of felt relieved and better about the whole thing and felt like a big kid once I knew the truth.
 
I never believed in Santa or any of the others (Easter Bunny, etc.). My parents never really encouraged it. They would put labels on some gifts for me that said "from Santa" (okay, I almost typed Satan there-oops), but they were always wrapped in our wrapping paper, which made it kind of obvious that unless Santa was stopping at our house to deliver packages AND wrap them, it probably wasn't happening (again, if my parents were really trying, they would have had secret wrapping paper that I didn't recognize from my own house!).

I do think Christmas is a exciting/magical time for kids and whatever parents do to preserve that experience as long as possible, whether doing the Santa thing or not, is valuable. My most memorable Christmas events that make me tingle when I remember them were going to see "Amahl and the Night Visitors," a candlelight midnight church service, and going to see a Christmas ice sculpture exhibit at the zoo.

*I should clarify, I'm not saying people shouldn't encourage their children to believe in Santa. Just that mine did not. And that I still remember Christmastime as a very special time. That's what is important, Santa or no Santa. (Personally, I think my mom was just lazy!)
 
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.....He simply can't be a thousand places at once. And we never had a fireplace/chimney either, so how did he pull that one off? ......

Quantum mechanics with a quantum computation paradigim! :-D

Extra human entities also have access to extra interesting technology.

Santa's sleigh, is a marvel to behold! Its one mean, 7 cold fusion powered riendeer dragging a quantum sled of grab bag of goodies!

And if McFarlen is right, Mrs Claus is slated to dance at the "North Pole" gentleman's club every night! :-D
 
I have every intention of prolonging the belief in Santa as long as we can. Right now, Santa is an extremely effective disciplinary tool for taming twin four year olds. Just thing morning, I pretended to put Santa on speed dial on the home phone so that the twins understood that if they bicker, I've got the red hot line to Santa.

That's hillarious!! I told my 5 year old this morning that there may not be any presents this year if she didn't brush her teeth. Thanks Santa! :D
 
As this topic has unintentionally touched off a bit of a firestorm, let me post a few things.

First, I have noticed that the efficacy of a diagnosis is directly proportional to the diagnostician's proximity to the patient. There being an uncalculable amount of ether between all of us here in these internets, a diagnosis from afar runs great risk. That a lengthy follow-up post clarifying an earlier post was necessary, I think, makes my point.

My son is not an only child: he is the oldest child. He is no more sheltered than most other near-twelve year olds that have come face-to-face with his own mortality: he's been through three major surgeries in his short life. His IQ, as measured by professionals at the University of Louisville, is 128. He is consistently on the A-B honor roll at an educationally rigorous private school.

He has been diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome. Among other ways it affects him, Asperger's has slowed his maturation relative to his peers as a whole, and especially measured against his female classmates in these late, pre-teen years when girls naturally tend to outpace boys. This manifests itself in the classroom and is a constant struggle for him and his teachers. He works hard at recognizing these limitations.

I don't believe he is sufficiently self-aware to realize that his classmates have already discovered that Santa Claus is not real. Instead, I suspect that he clings to Santa as part and parcel of the whole magic of Christmas. In his mind, Santa is the ship that keeps all of Christmas afloat. I, personally, am not prepared to torpedo that belief.

Did I lie to him when he asked if Santa is real? You bet and I'd do it again today and tomorrow if need be. I think it would have been different had I refuted a declaratory statement --'Dad, I know Santa isn't real' -- as opposed to answering the question of someone that still wants to believe. Whatever the case, I think all parents have to recognize the context from which the lie springs: namely, of having put this myth (and others) before our children in the first place, nurturing it for years, and then going to extraordinary lengths to perpetuate it.

I don't know any adults that still believe in Santa, or the Tooth Fairy, or the Easter Bunny. He will, sooner rather than later, I suspect, make that statement to me -- that he knows Santa isn't real and of course I'll tell him he's right.

Then I'll tell him if he spoils it for his little sister, I'll knock him into the middle of next week... ;)
 
As this topic has unintentionally touched off a bit of a firestorm, let me post a few things.

First, I have noticed that the efficacy of a diagnosis is directly proportional to the diagnostician's proximity to the patient. There being an uncalculable amount of ether between all of us here in these internets, a diagnosis from afar runs great risk. That a lengthy follow-up post clarifying an earlier post was necessary, I think, makes my point.

My son is not an only child: he is the oldest child. He is no more sheltered than most other near-twelve year olds that have come face-to-face with his own mortality: he's been through three major surgeries in his short life. His IQ, as measured by professionals at the University of Louisville, is 128. He is consistently on the A-B honor roll at an educationally rigorous private school.

He has been diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome. Among other ways it affects him, Asperger's has slowed his maturation relative to his peers as a whole, and especially measured against his female classmates in these late, pre-teen years when girls naturally tend to outpace boys. This manifests itself in the classroom and is a constant struggle for him and his teachers. He works hard at recognizing these limitations.

I don't believe he is sufficiently self-aware to realize that his classmates have already discovered that Santa Claus is not real. Instead, I suspect that he clings to Santa as part and parcel of the whole magic of Christmas. In his mind, Santa is the ship that keeps all of Christmas afloat. I, personally, am not prepared to torpedo that belief.

Did I lie to him when he asked if Santa is real? You bet and I'd do it again today and tomorrow if need be. I think it would have been different had I refuted a declaratory statement --'Dad, I know Santa isn't real' -- as opposed to answering the question of someone that still wants to believe. Whatever the case, I think all parents have to recognize the context from which the lie springs: namely, of having put this myth (and others) before our children in the first place, nurturing it for years, and then going to extraordinary lengths to perpetuate it.

I don't know any adults that still believe in Santa, or the Tooth Fairy, or the Easter Bunny. He will, sooner rather than later, I suspect, make that statement to me -- that he knows Santa isn't real and of course I'll tell him he's right.

Then I'll tell him if he spoils it for his little sister, I'll knock him into the middle of next week... ;)

At the end of the day you know your child best and have to decide relative to all other things considered how to deal with a given situation (just like I had with my teenager this weekend). You did good.
 
I think Cecil Adams says it best:

From the Straight Dope web site


Dear Jeff:

Let's just say his existence can't be definitely ruled out.

I'm not saying there aren't improbable aspects to the story. You have x number of kids (even leaving out the Muslims, Shintoists, Hindus, animists, etc., who one presumes get shafted, giftwise), you have y time per visit, you have z average distance between domiciles, you have an earth of known diameter, and you have 24 hours in the day. It doesn't add up. You have the problem of access to the gift-giving venue in the absence of chimneys with fireplaces, unless we're assuming that Santa Claus oozes through the keyholes in the manner of the critter in The Abyss, which is not a pretty picture. You have the problem of what in all likelihood is the earth's single largest concentration of toy manufacturing facilities in a polar region remote from resources of every type (cold excepted), that's so carefully camouflaged as to be invisible to satellite surveillance, and that produces no detectable emissions. Although now that one thinks about it, there's that ozone hole over the south pole. Hmm.

On the other hand, consider the following: A great many seemingly improbable events do in fact occur. Florida winning the World Series. Cleveland winning the World Series. Compared to this, what is the accurate delivery of zillions of packages in the course of a single night? Besides, Fed Ex does it. So what if we're talking Memphis and drivers in baseball caps rather than the north pole and elves? It's the principle of the thing. OK, so there's a certain amount of mortal participation involved. Perhaps, as a parent, you've personally done your bit to help Santa and thought you did so of your own accord. The ants in the anthill probably think they're doing it on a whim, too. But looking at the matter objectively, we can't deny that a larger purpose is at work and that we are in the service of an agency greater than ourselves. You mean the IRS. I mean the impulse to be generous. Three hundred sixty-four days out of the year humankind commits all manner of heinous acts. On the 365th day we give toys to the kids. I'm not saying that the latter compensates for the former. I'm not saying Adolph Hitler wouldn't have given presents to his children, if he'd had children. But come on, it's got to count for something. The giving of gifts in such a way that no credit will devolve upon ourselves is sufficiently at odds with our routine behavior as to be accounted a mystery, and we may as well give that mystery a name. Santa Claus it is. Besides, to believe in Santa Claus is to believe in magic. The belief in magic in many respects is a pernicious thing. Because of it you've got countless multitudes thinking that aliens abduct people, that Elvis is alive, that you can earn big money stuffing envelopes in your home, and that the TV preacher can cure you if you send him 50 bucks. A certain class of persons, of whom your columnist is one, will go through their lives attempting to extinguish these foolish hopes. No doubt in the main it is good that we do so. But even the sternest among us remembers the wonder we felt as children to think there was a force having a kindly interest in us that wasn't bound by the rules of this drab world. Wherefore if there's someone who's going to say flat out that Santa Claus doesn't exist, it's not going to be me.

— Cecil Adams
 
We believe in some things we cannot see or feel because we have faith. Some children believe in a beneficent, bearded fat man in a red suit and black boots who loves them and brings them presents.

Some adults believe about this time of year 2,000 years ago, a virgin woman gave birth to a baby boy, whose father was not her husband. They believe that this boy grew up to be a man who was perhaps the greatest teacher of love, morality and spirituality. They believe he healed the sick, rose the dead, turned water into wine and fed the multitudes with a few dried fishes and a couple loaves of bread. They also believe he was the Son of God and died for the salvation of mankind. They believe he was risen from the dead and ascended to Heaven to be with his Father.

Sound plausible? Only if you have faith.
 
otterpop - you are the wise one. :-D

Are you the 27th reincarnation of Budda or something? ;)
 
'dunker, you know your son better than anyone else here does, and I think that you did the right thing by telling him what you told him. He'll figure it out on his own soon enough, and he will always know how much you love him.

Is he in the Catholic school, too? I expect those teachers to be more sensitive, and am surprised that his said that there is no Santa. Surely, she knows that her students have younger siblings who don't need someone telling them that Teacher says there is no Santa.

I also agree with Maister's comments. The parent in me took offense to some of the things that Veloise said, but I tried not to react to them in a response. I don't think that many people can convey what they really think and feel in a written post, and it's so easy to misinterpret some things that people write.
 
I'm glad you explained things, though you didn't have to. I guess I was a little incredulous at the age of the innocent, and I consider my own kids to be pretty sheltered and they figured it out on their own.

Then again I never felt comfortable making a big deal out of Santa, never took them to sit on his lap, didn't use him as an threat to get chores done, Santa was just not an authority figure in my house...
 
We believe in some things we cannot see or feel because we have faith. Some children believe in a beneficent, bearded fat man in a red suit and black boots who loves them and brings them presents.

Some adults believe about this time of year 2,000 years ago, a virgin woman gave birth to a baby boy, whose father was not her husband. They believe that this boy grew up to be a man who was perhaps the greatest teacher of love, morality and spirituality. They believe he healed the sick, rose the dead, turned water into wine and fed the multitudes with a few dried fishes and a couple loaves of bread. They also believe he was the Son of God and died for the salvation of mankind. They believe he was risen from the dead and ascended to Heaven to be with his Father.

Sound plausible? Only if you have faith.

Bill Maher, political comedian, pretty much says the same thing in his comedy bits. However, because he is an atheist he does not end his schitck with any comments about faith. All of this Santa talk reminded me of his stance (and his comedy).

Bear
 
I "figured things out" somewhere around 7 or 8 from a combination of my olders brothers and when I recognized my dad's handwriting on the note Santa left thanking me for the cookies.

Is he a person I can go and shake hands with? No. But to be honest, I still believe in Santa and I get to be him for my daughter and for a less fortunate family we adopt each year (through social services).
 
We believe in some things we cannot see or feel because we have faith. Some children believe in a beneficent, bearded fat man in a red suit and black boots who loves them and brings them presents.

Some adults believe about this time of year 2,000 years ago, a virgin woman gave birth to a baby boy, whose father was not her husband. They believe that this boy grew up to be a man who was perhaps the greatest teacher of love, morality and spirituality. They believe he healed the sick, rose the dead, turned water into wine and fed the multitudes with a few dried fishes and a couple loaves of bread. They also believe he was the Son of God and died for the salvation of mankind. They believe he was risen from the dead and ascended to Heaven to be with his Father.

Sound plausible? Only if you have faith.

Kinda sound like Santa Claus for adults...as a child, if you believe really hard and are good then Santa will bring you a gift...and as an adult, if you believe really hard and are good Jesus will let you into heaven.

My wife and I have had the conversation about Santa where I do not want to lie to our daughter about the existence of a long dead and now mythical Saint who in the 1920's changes his appearance and outfit because Coca Cola could sell more carbonated, sugary beverages during the holiday season.

When I found out there was not a Santa I wondered what else are my parents lying to me about.


I think Bart Simpson summed up Christmas best when he said its when "we celebrate the birth of Santa."
 
Nobody has to lie about Santa.

About the time you find out Santa does not exist, most people become aware that it is the time of year where we are all stuck inside. We get to see relatives who we don't visit all year long. Outside of the fictitious carachter, it is the time of year we take stock (Stay back scorpio thinking! hide the secret list with the names ....) of what we have and what we need.

Its time to reset, party, and get ready for the next year while putting the old one away. Santa's not real? Why do we still have father time? During Samhain we get to be whatever we want to be for a night. So we as adults know there is no quantum mechanical benevolent genius delivering presents, but as adults, there is a little of him inside us. Yup, got to get the kids some socks and an X-box so I can play the new cooperative first person zombie shooter game, Left For Dead!.

If there were nothing to save and strive for to match the yearly reset process, surely we would be more impoverished.

So HAPPY YULE SEASON ALL AROUND! :):a::-D
 
I got a little nervous the other day when my 4-year old told me that Noah's (a kid from preschool) dad is Santa. I just played along and asked if Noah lives at the north pole, if he's ever ridden on Rudolf, if he's friend's with the elves, etc. Then she told me Noah was just kidding.

I remember when I was 7 my brother and I found a bunch of toys in bags on our sunporch. We played with them, and then realized it was all stuff we had asked Santa for. Then everything started to make sense. Christmas morning we still acted like we were surprised as we unwrapped each toy, cause we didn't want to make mom sad. But then my brother broke down, and admitted that we knew the truth. But then we got to be on the "adult side" and play up Santa to our younger cousins, and that was just as fun.

Oh.. and I've got a cute story to share. The grandson of a co-worker was 4, and in preschool. He had visited Santa at the mall earlier in the week, and then on this particular day Santa visited the preschool. When this little boy was talking with his parents that night he said "I know the truth about Santa." The parents were sad, and asked "you do?" and the boy said "Yeah. I know there are two of them. Cause the Santa at the mall had a scratchy beard and the Santa at preschool had a soft beard."
 
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BUMP.

Young 'Dunker had gone to bed Christmas Eve but found he couldn't sleep. He ventured into the hall and peeked down the stairs to see mom sitting in the chair near the tree. He came down the stairs and sat with mom while dad was in the basement wrapping presents. Spying presents already under the tree, some signed by Santa, he looked at mom and said 'I suppose Santa isn't real after all'. Mom gave him a kiss and ushered him back to bed and we finished the preparations.

Christmas came and everyone enjoyed giving gifts and time with family.

Last night, he sat down beside me and said 'Father, I know the truth'. I leaned over and told him I was only teasing when I said I couldn't hear the bell anymore. You can always hear the bell if you choose to believe.:)
 
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