Planning: general 🌇 Random Planning Thoughts (and Photos) Deserving No Thread Of Their Own

[Faust_Motel]

 

[Dan]

I tried with Dall-e but it didn't really get it.

I tried this prompt with Dall-e: watercolor style, architectural sketch, oblique view, urban neiughborhood, streets, blocks

Not bad. Not quite Dover Kohl-ish, though.

water color style, oblique view of a suburban neighborhood

That's pretty good, but I suspect Dall-e was using a photo from another source as the base.

 

[Dan]

I thought I'd try out playgroundai.com.

I uploaded an oblique photo of a neighborhood in an American inner ring suburb.

Here's what I got with a prompt of fine magic marker drawing style. instruction strength 7, quality 20.

Instruction strength 8, quality 20.

Instruction strength 8, quality 40.

fine watercolor drawing style, strength 8, quality 40.

color pencil drawing style, strength 8, quality 70.

Tweaking the last result in Photoshop.

I didn't check to see how prompts suggesting the image subject would work.

 

[Faust_Motel]

I tried this prompt with Dall-e: watercolor style, architectural sketch, oblique view, urban neiughborhood, streets, blocks

View attachment 60124

View attachment 60132

Not bad. Not quite Dover Kohl-ish, though.

water color style, oblique view of a suburban neighborhood

View attachment 60129

View attachment 60128

View attachment 60130

View attachment 60131

That's pretty good, but I suspect Dall-e was using a photo from another source as the base.

I wonder if you asked for "pencil line drawing, watercolor coloring" or somesuch if that would help get it to the Dover-Kohl level...

 

[Dan]

I splurged and signed up for a paid Midjourney account.

Here's what I got when I asked for a city council audience of angry NIMBY types.

 

[bureaucrat#3]

I think you have a zombie on the left side of the upper left photo. I'm trying to figure out if that's a tongue coming out of a nose/mouth on the 2nd row of the lower left image.

But otherwise, angry older middle/upper middle class white people - so that checks out.

 

[Doohickie]

an American inner ring suburb.

Cheektowaga. Verify my hunch.

 

[Dan]

Here's what Midjourney gave me for a prompt of "traditional neighborhood development, oblique view, Dover Kohl illustration style".

Not bad. The thoroughfare profiles are kind of weird, but still, Midjourney really captured the essence of a Dover Kohl illustration. Now to try a more detailed prompt describing the thoroughfare sections, block length and depth, presence of alleys, building types, and the like.

Cheektowaga. Verify my hunch.

Kenmore. Sorry.,

 

[jsk1983]

Cheektowaga. Verify my hunch.

I was going to say Kenmore.

 

[Wannaplan?]

kind of weird

Have you tried testing it? Like, comparing what it generates separately with two distinct but similar inputs, but as we know, could very well end up appearing, in the real world, with no meaningful differences?

"Midjourney, please create two images for me. The first being a two-story three-bedroom home in a traditional neighborhood occupied by a family of four with an income of $158,000. And the second being a two-story four-bedroom home in a traditional neighborhood, within a Census Block with a median household income of $65,000, currently rented out for $1,375 a month."

 

[mendelman]

 

[mendelman]

Highest and best use.

 

[MD Planner]

Highest and best use.

Man I've hated that term ever since I heard it in college. As I'm sure you do too.

 

[Gedunker]

@Dan I do like the literal street trees in the illustrations.

 

[Dan]

Have you tried testing it? Like, comparing what it generates separately with two distinct but similar inputs, but as we know, could very well end up appearing, in the real world, with no meaningful differences?

"Midjourney, please create two images for me. The first being a two-story three-bedroom home in a traditional neighborhood occupied by a family of four with an income of $158,000. And the second being a two-story four-bedroom home in a traditional neighborhood, within a Census Block with a median household income of $65,000, currently rented out for $1,375 a month."

Tweaked the prompt a few times, because Midjourney kept giving me houses that looked like they were in the Philippines or Thailand. I kept getting East Asian-style housing until I got rid of the income number.

/imagine two-story three-bedroom home, occupied by a financially secure middle class household, in an inner ring suburb in the Northeast United States.

Refining the prompt a bit more.

/imagine two story Colonial Revival house, occupied by a financially secure middle class household, in an inner ring suburb in the northeastern United States.

A bit better, but the photos are still a bit off when it comes to symmetry.

/prompt photograph of a group of Viking warriors in medieval Iceland, each warrior holding a adorable little kitten.

 

[bureaucrat#3]

Tweaked the prompt a few times, because Midjourney kept giving me houses that looked like they were in the Philippines or Thailand. I kept getting East Asian-style housing until I got rid of the income number.

/imagine two-story three-bedroom home, occupied by a financially secure middle class household, in an inner ring suburb in the Northeast United States.

View attachment 60194

Refining the prompt a bit more.

/imagine two story Colonial Revival house, occupied by a financially secure middle class household, in an inner ring suburb in the northeastern United States.



A bit better, but the photos are still a bit off when it comes to symmetry.

/prompt photograph of a group of Viking warriors in medieval Iceland, each warrior holding a adorable little kitten.

The top four pictures also look like you might have added the words haunted, liminal, or a neighborhood the day after. It doesn't help that the bottom right picture of that set looks like it has some sort of weird plant monster or psychopaths' topiary on the porch.

 

[Wannaplan?]

a group of Viking warriors in medieval Iceland

No one:

Leif Erikson: Let us bring those tigers back home to Olaf!

Midjourney: Smile for the camera!

 

[Doohickie]

 

[Doohickie]

 

[Doohickie]

 

[bureaucrat#3]

The guy who did the school photos in the county I grew up in built a castle. Started in the 80s and is still building it. In the late 90s the state ran an outer loop around Nashville and had to blast a 50 section of rock about 200 feet off his back door. Seems to have come out ok. They now hold the TN Renaissance Faire there.

Castle Gwynn - Arrington, TN

 

[Hawkeye66]

People and Cities do not value trees enough.

That's all I got.

 

[Bubba]

People and Cities do not value trees enough.

That's all I got.

https://www.treesatlanta.org/news/a-city-in-the-forest-atlantas-effort-to-preserve-nature-in-the-city/

 

[JNA]

People and Cities do not value trees enough.

That's all I got.

Do these numbers matter ?

From Tree City USA https://www.arborday.org/programs/treecityusa/

3,559 RECOGNIZED CITIES
$1,568,831,172 INVESTED IN URBAN FORESTRY

 

[DVD]

Do these numbers matter ?

From Tree City USA https://www.arborday.org/programs/treecityusa/

Not really, we're a "tree city" and we even have the growth award and yet we tear out trees all over the place and could really use a few more in every parking lot and along the sidewalks. You know, for the shade.

 

[Hawkeye66]

https://www.treesatlanta.org/news/a-city-in-the-forest-atlantas-effort-to-preserve-nature-in-the-city/

Glad to see someone trying.

We just cut like 170 ash trees. Its a sad thing.

 

[Doohickie]

Fort Worth is not a tree city on that site. I think we do have a fair amount of trees, but I would like to see more added on the bicycle trails along the river.

 

[Faust_Motel]

Glad to see someone trying.

We just cut like 170 ash trees. Its a sad thing.

We've been taking out like 125/year for the last couple of years. We aren't keeping up with how fast they are dying at this point. The one outside my office that was fine last year is a goner this year- dead all over.

 

[Hawkeye66]

We've been taking out like 125/year for the last couple of years. We aren't keeping up with how fast they are dying at this point. The one outside my office that was fine last year is a goner this year- dead all over.

Yeah. We did most of ours last year. Finishing up this year. Lots of residents we end up setting payment plans with.

 

[Bubba]

Yeah. We did most of ours last year. Finishing up this year. Lots of residents we end up setting payment plans with.

Bear in mind that I'm on the very periphery of city planning, so I have a significant level of ignorance here - this reads like your local government is going onto private property, cutting down trees, and then charging the property owners for it. I think I'm lacking some context in this discussion...

 

[Planit]

Well at least someone caught this during inspections

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/new-build-horror-36-houses-30195652

 

[Hawkeye66]

Bear in mind that I'm on the very periphery of city planning, so I have a significant level of ignorance here - this reads like your local government is going onto private property, cutting down trees, and then charging the property owners for it. I think I'm lacking some context in this discussion...

Yes. Sorry. In our ordinances a dead tree is a nuisance. So when we were going to contract to do our ROW trees, we let home owners buy in and get a better price. Most bought in. I am dealing with a few stragglers this year.

 

[Planit]

Phone call @ 9:45 - "Can you tell me if a modular home is permitted @ 1234 This Street?" I replied "Yes, but not manufactured homes."

Email @ 10:15 - "Can you tell me if a modular home is permitted @ 1234 This Street?" I replied "Yes, but not manufactured homes."

I wonder if I'll get a text in 20 minutes or so.

 

[Doohickie]

What's the difference between modular and manufactured?

 

[mendelman]

What's the difference between modular and manufactured?

Stigma.

 

[Doohickie]

My in-laws home was built on a basement foundation but came on two trailers, and the two pieces were mated on site. They were full "populated" with doors and windows and plumbing fixtures and stuff. I wonder whether it is considered modular or manufactured.

 

[tnt1ne]

The guy who did the school photos in the county I grew up in built a castle. Started in the 80s and is still building it. In the late 90s the state ran an outer loop around Nashville and had to blast a 50 section of rock about 200 feet off his back door. Seems to have come out ok. They now hold the TN Renaissance Faire there.

Castle Gwynn - Arrington, TN
View attachment 60231

mans was ahead of his time....gotta make your own luck

 

[Planit]

What's the difference between modular and manufactured?

In simple terms, modulars are built to building code standards & set on a permanent foundation. Manufactured homes are built to the HUD code with the frame remaining & not requiring a foundation.

 

[Doohickie]

Okay so they have a modular.

 

[bureaucrat#3]

What's the difference between modular and manufactured?

A sticker.

 

[Dan]

What's the difference between modular and manufactured?

"Modular" houses are built offsite, and assembled onsite. They have a permanent foundation, and can't be easily moved after construction is finished. The better models look more like "real" site built houses.

Google Streetview won't let you take a virtual drive down this street, but all of these houses are modular construction.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

"Manufactured" (HUD compliant) and "on-frame modular" (IBC compliant) houses are built and assembled offsite. If it's a doublewide, the two halves may be put together onsite. Their design usually conforms to a kind of template that screams "mobile home".

• Footprint: simple rectangle, 14' x 70' for singlewide, 24'/28/'32' x 76'.
• 2:12 or 3:12 roof pitch.
• Entry area is usually undefined, except for maybe a false gable above the front door.
• Entries are on the long sidess of the building.
• No integral porch or stoop.
• Thin vinyl siding, with narrow j-channel trim around windows and doors.
• Lattice or vented panel skirting, or just open below floor level.
• Fenestration (window/door placement) is odd, with no attempt to achieve any kind of symmetry or visual harmony.
• Windows aren't recessed, but instead pop out past the outside walls.
• The front elevation might have long blank surfaces.
• Exterior walls are usually 4" (10 cm) thick, not 6" (15 cm) or more as with a modular or site built house.
• Interior walls are VOG (vinyl over gypsum) panels, not drywall or plaster.
• Interior walls and ceilings often have batten strips between panels.
• Electric service panel and meter are usually mounted on a separate pole, not the house itself.
• Special mobile home plumbing, light switches, electrical outlets, and the like.
• No entry hall/foyer. You step directly from the outdoors into the living room.

Also, you usually can't finance a manufactured home with a conventional mortgage.

 

[JNA]

In the July/August 2023 Reader's Digest

 

[Bubba]

In the July/August 2023 Reader's Digest

That still exists?

 

[Planit]

Great, now I get to see this as I sit on the beach back home

 

[Faust_Motel]

Great, now I get to see this as I sit on the beach back home
View attachment 60365

Lame! At least the planes towing banners are kind of fun to watch.

 

[bureaucrat#3]

"Modular" houses are built offsite, and assembled onsite. They have a permanent foundation, and can't be easily moved after construction is finished. The better models look more like "real" site built houses.

I think it's debatable whether mobile homes really are mobile. We have some moved here on occasion, but you get the feeling that the mobile home mover is hoping and praying they don't disintegrate when they first start to start to move them. I've seen one basically get ripped in half during the process and we had one start to unravel on the interstate about 10 years ago.

 

[Wannaplan?]

Is there anyone else out there facepalming every time they read about another community promoting the "We are a great place to live, work, and play!" descriptor? I just cringe, and I particularly dislike the "play" aspect of the phraseology. I know I am being overly critical, but that's exactly my point - it's a dumb, ubiquitous saying for certain communities that think they are one thing, but really they are not. Do community leaders not have an internal voice to guide them?

I could also rant about the professional marketers that are hired by communities to help them "stand out," but that is another thread for another time.

(Exception: I hope Hell, Michigan adopts "We are a great place to live, work, play, and die!" as their marketing slogan! )

 

[Faust_Motel]

Is there anyone else out there facepalming every time they read about another community promoting the "We are a great place to live, work, and play!" descriptor? I just cringe, and I particularly dislike the "play" aspect of the phraseology. I know I am being overly critical, but that's exactly my point - it's a dumb, ubiquitous saying for certain communities that think they are one thing, but really they are not. Do community leaders not have an internal voice to guide them?

I could also rant about the professional marketers that are hired by communities to help them "stand out," but that is another thread for another time.

(Exception: I hope Hell, Michigan adopts "We are a great place to live, work, play, and die!" as their marketing slogan! )

I find most marketing that comes from hired firms is pretty formulaic like that. A a resident of the place being marketed, it comes of as inauthentic.

My city of residence paid a lot of money for marketing a few years back, received an extremely tone-deaf hashtag (think hoe everybody wants to sound like "SoHo" and how badly that usually plays) and then a slogan- "a different place, altogether!" Which might as well have been "a place, no really!" (We are a suburb of a bigger municipality).

In general I dislike the use of the word "Place" in development names, master plans, etc. Don't label yourself a place, do the things you need to do to become one. Much harder, but a much better long-run investment.

 

[Wannaplan?]

"a place, no really!"

That's spot on. With that, you uncovered an angle that I hadn't considered - towns and locales ("places") are begging for attention with their marketing and brand development efforts.

But why? Why plead for differentiation? Who ever said, "Wow, Burgertown's slogan is so catchy - "Burgertown has the works!" - that we must go there now and shop and eat and maybe see if they have any good hamburger restaurants. And they better have a streetscape and wayfinding signs and EV chargers with food trucks next to murals."

Towns and locales ("places") would be better off addressing the real reasons why their Main Street economy is lagging (stiff competition from cheap online shopping alternatives; local restauranteurs keep reusing the fry grease which make their french fries taste like Windex) rather than conjuring up a "brand" that will ultimately signal nothing to already deaf ears.

 

[Faust_Motel]

That's spot on. With that, you uncovered an angle that I hadn't considered - towns and locales ("places") are begging for attention with their marketing and brand development efforts.

But why? Why plead for differentiation? Who ever said, "Wow, Burgertown's slogan is so catchy - "Burgertown has the works!" - that we must go there now and shop and eat and maybe see if they have any good hamburger restaurants. And they better have a streetscape and wayfinding signs and EV chargers with food trucks next to murals."

Towns and locales ("places") would be better off addressing the real reasons why their Main Street economy is lagging (stiff competition from cheap online shopping alternatives; local restauranteurs keep reusing the fry grease which make their french fries taste like Windex) rather than conjuring up a "brand" that will ultimately signal nothing to already deaf ears.

Yes. I think where marketing can help is if you need to add an appearance package to part of town you are otherwise (yes, I know Duany disparages this stuff a " The B's- bollards, benches, bricks, banners and bandstands," but sometimes a little of that does show that somebody (the municipality) cares about a place).

I think you have to lead with the value of a place, yes- but some well-placed benches cannot in my mind be a bad thing and leaving them out of the public realm verges on Hostile Architecture.