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Planning: general 🌇 Random Planning Thoughts (and Photos) Deserving No Thread Of Their Own

I am glad I don't do current planning anymore and have to recommend approval of crap like this because it meets minimum requirements.


Junk.PNG
 
RandomPlanner said:
Yup. Could be in the back of a pickup truck.
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I love trucks with flags. They are so much more patriotic than my little car.

TOFB said:
I am glad I don't do current planning anymore and have to recommend approval of crap like this because it meets minimum requirements.
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Ditto, I kept seeing the houses get smaller and smaller. I no longer call them houses. They are crappy apartments that you own.
 
TOFB said:
I am glad I don't do current planning anymore and have to recommend approval of crap like this because it meets minimum requirements.


View attachment 56803
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DVD said:
I love trucks with flags. They are so much more patriotic than my little car.


Ditto, I kept seeing the houses get smaller and smaller. I no longer call them houses. They are crappy apartments that you own.
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High density without urbanity.
 
DVD said:
I love trucks with flags. They are so much more patriotic than my little car.


Ditto, I kept seeing the houses get smaller and smaller. I no longer call them houses. They are crappy apartments that you own.
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They call them individual townhouses here.
 
JNA said:
Well Duh -

found in the sign section of ZO

Menu boards shall only be permitted in conjunction with a permitted drive-through use.
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This is actually kind of a problem, because it prohibits menu boards in conjunction with walk-up outdoor/to-go foodservice, no? Or does it only apply to standalone signs, not a menu board found on the restaurant building itself?
 
Planit said:
The city next door has this going on now
View attachment 56804

At least we haven't allowed concrete front yards here (yet:omg::'()
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We have a section of town like that^.
www.google.com

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
www.google.com www.google.com
Old Howard Beach in the Queens Borough of NYC.
Where men are men,
masks are for sissies,
trees are for chopping down,
flagless dwellings are housing Commies, and
firearms are for coraling libtards.
 
DVD said:
Our neighborhoods are more like this:
www.google.com

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
www.google.com www.google.com

Hey, look at my garage that I don't use to park a car. It's just a big storage room. Oh, and I think there is a house somewhere behind it.
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[I was looking to respond with a throwing up emoji but, sadly, we don't have one so I had to settle for the angry one.]
 
We have design rules to try to prevent that, but they still push the boundary as much as they can. Look, my house is 1 inch wider than required based on garage door size. Plus the garage is 1 inch behind what you allow. It still looks like crap, but we meet your rules. Why would we want to design better. This is what the market wants. Really? Have you actually tried to ask people what they would prefer. Maybe give them some options where the house looks like a house and see what they say. I know this is cheaper and easier though.
 
Shellac And Vinyl VelocitY said:
We have a section of town like that^.
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www.google.com

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
www.google.com www.google.com

Wow, impervious surface much? Nice to see that they made a point to preserve some green space curb lawn in front of their house! :smirk: At least we know the storm sewers are getting a workout.
 
It should be more common. One place I worked kept a map like that to keep away the what's being built here phone calls. My current city you can look up any permits in your neighborhood and I think ED has a map of the big projects so they can show how exciting this place is.
 
^^ Yes, more and more cities are getting their maps up to date and available.

I love them, as long as I'm not the one having to create them.
 
1650637587812.png

Would you like living here? I note there is a 'garden' area up on the third tier.
 
This probably belongs in one of the "serious threads" but APA has an article about "zoning hacks" for missing middle housing.

Missing Middle Housing

First, I absolutely hate the terms hacks. So stupid. Second, if you read the article and you've been a planner for longer than say 10 minutes you're going to say "no shit Sherlock". I mean honestly, this is what passes as informed content from APA?

Am I just a grumpy old guy these days or does anyone actually agree with me?
 
I would like to see investment in housing in more communities. Especially small town America. Why don't we see smaller, connected rentals in middle America? Nice duplexes should make everyone money and meet a very dire need.

I need to quit my job and start investing in duplexes.
 
Hink said:
I would like to see investment in housing in more communities. Especially small town America. Why don't we see smaller, connected rentals in middle America? Nice duplexes should make everyone money and meet a very dire need.

I need to quit my job and start investing in duplexes.
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I hate duplexes. Or at least how duplexes always get built. I've seen a few here or there that are nice and built well, but for the most part the duplexes we get are all cheap boxes built for maximum efficiency. If they're built in groups everyone is exactly the same.

I could probably fix it with better design standards, but we've tended to just make them conditional and tell people unless they want to build something that has a little bit of character we won't support it. They never follow through anymore.

I don't want to dislike them, because you're right they could be an easy density fix.
 
Hink said:
I would like to see investment in housing in more communities. Especially small town America. Why don't we see smaller, connected rentals in middle America? Nice duplexes should make everyone money and meet a very dire need.

I need to quit my job and start investing in duplexes.
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Agreed. Time for a text amendment at your place of employment. ;)
bureaucrat#3 said:
I hate duplexes. Or at least how duplexes always get built. I've seen a few here or there that are nice and built well, but for the most part the duplexes we get are all cheap boxes built for maximum efficiency. If they're built in groups everyone is exactly the same.

I could probably fix it with better design standards, but we've tended to just make them conditional and tell people unless they want to build something that has a little bit of character we won't support it. They never follow through anymore.

I don't want to dislike them, because you're right they could be an easy density fix.
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The 'quality' you describe is likely more a symptom than a cause. Just making them conditional and throwing them into a discretionary review minefield is, as you said, an effective ban. But if your market wants them, think about by-right orientation/finishes standards and also allow for fee simple ownership and for sale. That way you may get better examples than purely barrel bottom rentals.

Honestly, this is the kind of professional thinking is part of why we've gotten ourselves into this nation wide housing crisis.
 
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MD Planner said:
This probably belongs in one of the "serious threads" but APA has an article about "zoning hacks" for missing middle housing.

Missing Middle Housing

First, I absolutely hate the terms hacks. So stupid. Second, if you read the article and you've been a planner for longer than say 10 minutes you're going to say "no shit Sherlock". I mean honestly, this is what passes as informed content from APA?

Am I just a grumpy old guy these days or does anyone actually agree with me?
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The Missing Middle was first promoted over 4 years ago that I am aware of. I saw a presentation from John Anderson, an architect from Minnesota concerning this back in 2018 @ CNU conference in Savannah. I had read an article about it before that.

Glad APA is so up-to-date.
 
Hink said:
I would like to see investment in housing in more communities. Especially small town America. Why don't we see smaller, connected rentals in middle America?
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Here in the Rust Belt of the mitten state, my experience is that the small towns here don't see that kind of investment for three primary reasons: Quality of public schools, quality of infrastructure (water), and public opposition to new development. Almost every community I've worked in has highlighted, through feedback from our community engagement initiatives, that while more housing is needed and that they are concerned their schools need more support, they do love their quiet community, so glad that they moved back to be home with family and away from all that city riff-raff. I know, cognitive dissonance, but there you go, that's what we are dealing with.
 
Planit said:
The Missing Middle was first promoted over 4 years ago that I am aware of. I saw a presentation from John Anderson, an architect from Minnesota concerning this back in 2018 @ CNU conference in Savannah. I had read an article about it before that.

Glad APA is so up-to-date.
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Daniel Parolek, who wrote a book on Missing Middle, has been talking about for about 7-10 years or so. He seems to be a regular at CNU and has done some of the other conferences. He might not be the first though. I think I first saw him around 2010 doing some FBC training.

mendelman said:
The 'quality' you describe is likely more a symptom than a cause. Just making them conditional and throwing them into a discretionary review minefield is, as you said, an effective ban. But if you're market wants them, think about by-right orientation/finishes standards and also allow for fee simple ownership and for sale. That way you may get better examples than purely barrel bottom rentals.

Honestly, this is the kind of professional thinking is part of why we've gotten ourselves into this nation wide housing crisis.
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I don't necessarily disagree with you, but getting any design control around here is difficult. For the most part we have orientation and finish standards that give us doors in the right spot and brick buildings and they still look like cheap public housing. We're pushing for some better standards, variation, material hierarchy, and tools to help us, but its a tough sell. I don't have the staff, commissioners/council, or even a public that understands why some of this is important and it takes time to educate. Plus builders have threatened to go to state for legislation that limits design standards for 1-2 unit residential structures....cause property rights.

My bad tools and archaic ordinance suck, but they keep the really bad stuff out. They don't typically limit someone doing the right thing too much, but yes we get a lot of mediocre results.
 
bureaucrat#3 said:
Daniel Parolek, who wrote a book on Missing Middle, has been talking about for about 7-10 years or so. He seems to be a regular at CNU and has done some of the other conferences. He might not be the first though. I think I first saw him around 2010 doing some FBC training.


I don't necessarily disagree with you, but getting any design control around here is difficult. For the most part we have orientation and finish standards that give us doors in the right spot and brick buildings and they still look like cheap public housing. We're pushing for some better standards, variation, material hierarchy, and tools to help us, but its a tough sell. I don't have the staff, commissioners/council, or even a public that understands why some of this is important and it takes time to educate. Plus builders have threatened to go to state for legislation that limits design standards for 1-2 unit residential structures....cause property rights.

My bad tools and archaic ordinance suck, but they keep the really bad stuff out. They don't typically limit someone doing the right thing too much, but yes we get a lot of mediocre results.
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I hear what you're saying and sometimes we professionals need to just accept the job we're given or change jobs if it's too 'much'.

As is life.
 
My ability to see space and put future things into it is my super power. We are finishing our basement and you would think my wife has never imagined a couch before. I don't need to have a piece of furniture in the space to understand how much space it will take up. It is 7' wide, just think about that and put it in the space in your head. I thought everyone could do this?
 
Hink said:
My ability to see space and put future things into it is my super power. We are finishing our basement and you would think my wife has never imagined a couch before. I don't need to have a piece of furniture in the space to understand how much space it will take up. It is 7' wide, just think about that and put it in the space in your head. I thought everyone could do this?
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I got this from my dad, I believe. He would pack the car and be able to fit everything in in a very calculated method. I can do that too & call it playing Tetris - most recently packing the car when we were picking up The Girl from school.

I've been able to see how things fit. It works well when designing preliminary site plans for site utilization.
 
Hink said:
My ability to see space and put future things into it is my super power. We are finishing our basement and you would think my wife has never imagined a couch before. I don't need to have a piece of furniture in the space to understand how much space it will take up. It is 7' wide, just think about that and put it in the space in your head. I thought everyone could do this?
Click to expand...
I have always been able to visualize items in a certain space and my wife has learned how to do that. It was just a matter of her relating measurement to objects with known measurements. If I tell her that a cabinet is 24" deep, 36" tall, and 72" wide; she'll say so that is 2 of your shoes deep, as tall as our granddaughter, and almost as wide as you are tall. I think it's funny but it works for her.
 
Hink said:
My ability to see space and put future things into it is my super power. We are finishing our basement and you would think my wife has never imagined a couch before. I don't need to have a piece of furniture in the space to understand how much space it will take up. It is 7' wide, just think about that and put it in the space in your head. I thought everyone could do this?
Click to expand...
This skill served me very well indeed when I worked in the moving and storage business. Things that are tightly packed, either in cartons or in the trailer, tend not to break.
As a planner, it helps me see how a parcel or space will look and feel when completed. I think it definitely gives me an edge in urban design.
 
Hink said:
My ability to see space and put future things into it is my super power. We are finishing our basement and you would think my wife has never imagined a couch before. I don't need to have a piece of furniture in the space to understand how much space it will take up. It is 7' wide, just think about that and put it in the space in your head. I thought everyone could do this?
Click to expand...
Big Owl said:
I have always been able to visualize items in a certain space and my wife has learned how to do that. It was just a matter of her relating measurement to objects with known measurements. If I tell her that a cabinet is 24" deep, 36" tall, and 72" wide; she'll say so that is 2 of your shoes deep, as tall as our granddaughter, and almost as wide as you are tall. I think it's funny but it works for her.
Click to expand...
Gedunker said:
This skill served me very well indeed when I worked in the moving and storage business. Things that are tightly packed, either in cartons or in the trailer, tend not to break.
As a planner, it helps me see how a parcel or space will look and feel when completed. I think it definitely gives me an edge in urban design.
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This is a critical developed and/or natural skill/ability pretty much anyone in the development planning/review part of the professional has to have.

And I'd go as far as being able to visualize in 3D and 4D (across time).
 
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I think I developed this talent from years of playing tetris and life in the military storing things in small spaces.
 
I suppose if you create a graphic for a planning document and it has more than two primary colors, some arrows, and fat fonts, you get to call it an infographic?
 
I had to explain to my child who is learning to drive how to go around it and how to signal.
 
DVD said:
I give you the 4 way stop roundabout.
www.google.com

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
www.google.com www.google.com
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Only thing I can think of is that the roundabout people somehow never talked to the sign people -- MUTCD 2B.09 paragraph 02 requires YIELD control in this application:

Standard:
02 A YIELD (R1-2) sign shall be used to assign right-of-way at the entrance to a roundabout. YIELD signs at roundabouts shall be used to control the approach roadways and shall not be used to control the circulatory roadway.
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