Is Breastfeeding In Public OK?

[jmf]

And maybe it's the husband who started it all, e.g. "we can't afford formula" or "be an earth mother and breast-feed my baby" (just not in public).

It is probably the same guy who harrassed his pregnant wife to no end - you can't do that, you can't eat that, I'm just trying to protect MY baby arrggghhhhh

 

[btrage]

Here's another breastfeeding article. Apparently, BabyTalk magazine has a rather interesting cover photo that has many people up in arms.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060804/od_afp/afplifestyleussocialbreastfeeding

My favorite line is from a women in Kansas who stated:

"I was offended and it made my husband very uncomfortable when I left the magazine on the coffee table."

Yeah, he's uncomfortable because if you ever found out how much he likes breasts, you'd scold him and send him to his room.

I was thinking...damn, that baby is lucky ;-)

 

[Downtown]

It is probably the same guy who harrassed his pregnant wife to no end - you can't do that, you can't eat that, I'm just trying to protect MY baby arrggghhhhh

there is no property more public than a pregnant woman's body.

one of my (less assertive) girlfriends was not allowed to:
- highlight her hair
- eat sugar/hot dogs/deli meat/shellfish/tuna/fast food
- wear nail polish
- drink caffeine or eat chocolate (a double no-no - sweets and caffeine)

i would have killed myself. or better yet - killed him.

 

[imaplanner]

Double post, so sue me.

I am thinking about breast-feeding opponents. So, if they were enjoying a nice dinner out with wife and baby and baby gets hungry, and wife says "Here's the bottle, go sit in the car and feed the baby while your dinner gets cold" how would they feel? Second class? That seems to be a recurring theme here. They wouldn't do it! These guys seem to have no qualms whatsoever about fathering a baby and then sending the moms outside to feed them. You can breast-feed, but not in public/in front of dad/ etc. It's the moms who get sent from the room/house/restaurant. How bad is that? It really sucks. And maybe it's the husband who started it all, e.g. "we can't afford formula" or "be an earth mother and breast-feed my baby" (just not in public).

You seem to be assuming its the guys objections where in reality most of the people objecting to the magazine cover were women.

I don't think its fair to blame this one on men. If anything I think its women who feel uncomfortable that their men may be able to look at other womens boobies.

 

[Michele Zone]

Here's another breastfeeding article. Apparently, BabyTalk magazine has a rather interesting cover photo that has many people up in arms.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060804/od_afp/afplifestyleussocialbreastfeeding

The photo doesn't show a nipple. The rule of thumb is that you can show all the cleavage you want, as long as you don't show a nipple. I have no idea why, but it passes the test. Which kind of makes me wonder what makes this controversial -- not to judge the peole who are offended by it. It made me a little uncomfortable too, and I have no idea why. Does the baby's activity so strongly "imply" a nipple that we feel it "breaks the rule" or something? ^o)

 

[Zoning Goddess]

If anything I think its women who feel uncomfortable that their men may be able to look at other womens boobies.

You gotta be kidding. They see other women's boobs all the time, on the internet, in magazines, maybe they go to Bike Week in Daytona. I don't see it as a threat if a guy I'm with sees a boob of some woman who's just had another man's baby.

I would say that the women who objected are repressed in some way, either morally about exposing their boobs, or directed by family/spouse to keep it "hidden". That's OK. If it's against your values, fine. Maybe not if it's OK with you but against hubby's/boyfriend's values (possibly a control freak there....) On the other hand, as has been stated here before, it's very easy for a woman to keep her breasts covered when nursing.

 

[JNA]

[OT] Q. Anybody remember the AICP test question from 1998 about accomendation for breastfeeding mothers ? [/OT]

 

[NHPlanner]

[OT] Q. Anybody remember the AICP test question from 1998 about accomendation for breastfeeding mothers ? [/OT]

[ot]It was on the 2001 AICP Exam as well. [/ot]

 

[giff57]

[ot]It was on the 2001 AICP Exam as well. [/ot]

That's right, perhaps we should move this thread to No Small Plans... ;-)

 

[kjel]

I'm not trying to stir the pot......but there was a very interesting article on breastfeeding and job type (class) in the NY Times today http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/01/health/01nurse.html?hp&ex=1157083200&en=11caaf5ed95838fd&ei=5094&partner=homepage

 

[dobopoq]

I'm not trying to stir the pot......but there was a very interesting article on breastfeeding and job type (class) in the NY Times today http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/01/health/01nurse.html?hp&ex=1157083200&en=11caaf5ed95838fd&ei=5094&partner=homepage

Once again, I must thank you for your perspicacity about gender role-related news articles kjelsadek! I should read the online NY Times more often.

This article just increased my knowledge of working mothers by a factor of 10! I now think that even in food service, women should be able to breastfeed on the job. Breasts have to be milked at least every hour or two, or lactation will cease. It was striking how most of the article concerned itself with whether a woman can use a breast pump on the job, or whether she has to do so in the bathroom or not at all - and the costs and time that entails. Yet even that, is far inferior to being able to have a baby nurse from the breast - where milk is both ever fresh and at a desirable temperature.

You can see the issue as educated mothers with job automony vs. low skill workers where the environment is indifferent to worker needs in general. Or you can see it as the vagaries of breastpumping on the job vs. the wholesome nurturance that only a housewife can give. I see the issue as exemplary of the general norm in our society that the workplace be completely dichotomized from our private life. Humans are still caught in conceptualizing motherhood in an agrarian context - when and where people (men and women) worked close to home. With the rise of an industrialized factory labor force - it is this thinking that necessitated the concept of the housewife - an unemployed woman living in the context of suburbia where she can contribute neither food nor money, and thus nothing - to the economic status of the family. It took us a few decades to wake up to the stupidity of this, but we are in truth - still learning how to incorporate women into the workplace.

The relative absence of women from the industrial labor force until recent decades created an environment not only of female subservience to male breadwinning, but also a dehumanized workplace, where anything expressive of individuality or suggestive of something untoward in a man's personal life had to be quietly snuffed out underneath the shroud of the suit and tie. Men's bodily functions could more easily adapt to this cold regimentation of the clock than women, but for this singular focus, men payed an emotional cost.

People talk of telecommuting - which would presumably eliminate most of the problems of workplace lactation. But this still remains something like the so-called paperless-society that has been widely touted since the 1970's but has yet to de-materialize. I think the solution lies with breaking down our fetish for dichotomizing work life from private life. It lies in lies in viewing on the job day care centers as an investment in public health that should be part of a nationalized health care system.

Our steroidal economy - addicted as it is to unsustainble debt-based continual growth and fossil fuel use, has made us forget what it is to be human.

For those who object and say they don't want their tax dollars going to subsidize others breastfeeding while they choose to be childless or can afford to be housewifes/have a housewife - I say they're going to pay one way or another. The U.S. has the world's highest incarceration rate - this is partly driven by the profit motives of the prison construction and security industry, but it is also reflective of the lives we run over in our blind chase of the $ in a soulless workplace.

Having read some comments about the NY Times breastfeeding article on the gothamist blog: http://www.gothamist.com/index.php
I can't help but notice that part of the problem comes down to whether a woman needs privacy. The many bitchy people a barrista has to deal with is not conducive to allowing her to relax. Breastpumping isn't like pulling a lever to draw a fresh cup from a coffee machine. The flow of milk is not so easy to control, and it usually flows much slower. Breastfeeding can also be likened to a campfire. If someone does tend the fire - feeding it a log or two now and then, it will go out. And once a mother has stopped lactating, the milk doesn't come back the way a lighter or stove flame can be continually re-lit.

But getting back to the privacy issue: I sense there is a certain degree of cross purposes at work. Whether women dress conservatively or slutty, they can often be seen pulling the flaps of a jacket or vest closet - partly for warmth, but often just to obstruct views of their cleavage from the eyes of men. For women, breasts are a blessing and a curse. They can feed a baby, and arouse a man, but also hinder movement and can easily draw unwanted attention.

When a large breasted woman who has usually been careful to dress conservatively, one day becomes a mother - aside from whatever the level of workplace tolerance for breastfeeding, she herself may struggle with conflicting interests. Perhaps she is proud of her body but dresses conservative to avoid provoking other women's jealousy. Perhaps she dresses conservatively because she believes it immoral not to. Maybe she has a possessive husband who demands she dress that way. For whatever reason she feels the need to hide the attractiveness of her figure - once she is a mother, doing what's healthy for her baby may require her to be a little less "top secret" about any public exposure of her bare breasts to men. The few men who are offended by such displays are far outnumbered by the legions who salivate at the legitimate opportunity to take a gander at live breasts.

I think there should be legislation to protect women who breastfeed from discrimination. Certain minimum freedoms should be spelled out. When possible and if desired, women should have the freedom to use a private room other than a bathroom. But we should also be realistic about the limitations of the worksite. A small coffee shop in a dense urban area could hardly be expected to sacrifice the square footage for a seperate room used just for breastfeeding. And other than the bathroom, such an establishment is entirely public - even the kitchen to a lesser degree. Therefore, in such conditions women such as the barrista featured in the article may have to struggle with their own insecurities in order to breastfeed, but that they their employer should allot a certain number of additional minutes of break time to go wherever they feel comfortable to breastfeed at several intervals through the day, should not be considered a privelege. It should be their right.

There is a certain form of social control that women seem to impose on each other. A certain measure of prudishness is considered prudent. Much of the aim of this social control is to ensure that only women in "a relationship" bare their nude bodies to men. Those who violate this norm risk being gossiped as sluts - with the traditional insinuation being that men would avoid them because they could not be sure of their own paternity in the event of a pregnancy. In the sexual politics of woman vs. woman, to use nakedness as a lure for male attention is akin to selling below cost to drive your competitors out of business. Everybody knows a "good girl" makes a man pay for several dates before she "gives it up". Women hurl insults of "slut" and men begin to wonder how many guys their swanky girl has been with. Likewise, when goods seem too cheap to the consumer, people begin to wonder about unfair labor practices and 3rd world sweat shops. Before long the slutty woman or company finds herself/itself out of business. It is this unspoken cult of femininity (and corresponding dependence upon male breadwinning) against which women in our culture who attempt to breastfeed in the workplace, must struggle against. Pro-breastfeeding legislation would be a good start though.

 

[Future Planning Diva]

Discomfort not always disapproval

I think that women should nurse their babies as needed, but I also feel a bit startled and uncomfortable when I am around a woman nursing. Part of me feels like a voyeur intruding on this intimate act, even recently when it was my sister in law:-$ . Look, both breasts and babies are attractive, but staring at these appealing objects isn't exactly nice in this context. In spite of earlier comments, putting baby to breast is not the same thing as an adult eating a cheeseburger.

Women who are discrete will cause a minimum of upheaval, but the moms who let it all hang out are probably the source of a lot of the hostility.

This is not to say that some americans are way too uptight about nursing, but I guess I can see why they feel that way, even though I think bans on breastfeeding anywhere are insane.