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Hiring Difficulties

MD Planner

MD Planner

Cyburbian
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5,659
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Who else is having trouble filling open positions? I've got a Senior Planner role that will pay right around six figures to start for a candidate with some comp planning experience. Eight applications so far and not one even worth interviewing.

The last time we filled this position (after it was created) it took two years to find someone. Great location, excellent pay and benefits; I just don't get it.
 
MD Planner said:
Who else is having trouble filling open positions? I've got a Senior Planner role that will pay right around six figures to start for a candidate with some comp planning experience. Eight applications so far and not one even worth interviewing.

The last time we filled this position (after it was created) it took two years to find someone. Great location, excellent pay and benefits; I just don't get it.
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Sounds like the right range, at least from where I'm sitting. Maybe the truly senior planners are just happy already, and the hopefuls are just not making the cut for you. You might have to allow a wild card, in the true NFL spirit. :)
 
We usually hire within for higher level positions, but for lower level we get a lot of applicants that I don't see as worth it. I can get plenty of people with the right qualifications, but not the right attitude.
 
I think fewer and fewer good people are going into or staying in government work. The number of people in the pool to fill City Managers or Director level positions is extremely low, and the bullpen isn't being grown. We see it in Ohio, but we don't have a lot of the amenities other places have. We are raising pay a lot to balance that "not cool" factor, but it is certainly challenging.

I'm not sure pay is even enough anymore. People just don't want to deal with the dumpster fire of public records requests, mean citizens, and the videoing "auditors" in your face. It is rough out there.
 
Hink said:
I think fewer and fewer good people are going into or staying in government work. The number of people in the pool to fill City Managers or Director level positions is extremely low, and the bullpen isn't being grown. We see it in Ohio, but we don't have a lot of the amenities other places have. We are raising pay a lot to balance that "not cool" factor, but it is certainly challenging.

I'm not sure pay is even enough anymore. People just don't want to deal with the dumpster fire of public records requests, mean citizens, and the videoing "auditors" in your face. It is rough out there.
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Totally agree. I definitely see it at the CM level but I had hoped it would not have spread lower on the chain. There have always been jokes about public employees but for the most part there was a degree of respect afforded them by most people. Sadly now public employees at all levels are demonized to the point they just saw "screw it" and now we get the dregs.
 
MD Planner said:
Totally agree. I definitely see it at the CM level but I had hoped it would not have spread lower on the chain. There have always been jokes about public employees but for the most part there was a degree of respect afforded them by most people. Sadly now public employees at all levels are demonized to the point they just saw "screw it" and now we get the dregs.
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One of the best CM's in our area just quit in his early 40's to go to the private sector. He said he wanted more balance, but honestly, it had a lot to do with the stress of the position and unrealistic expectations that he felt he was being asked to burden.

If we don't have a lot of great 40 year old leaders, we aren't going to have great outcomes in 20 years. If we don't have a lot of exited and willing to learn 20-30 year olds in the system, we aren't going to have great outcomes in 30-40 years.

With the outrage over salaries and quality of life issues with government employees, I don't see it getting better in the short term. A nice retirement though isn't winning the "why" argument when looking at public service. As you noted, it certainly isn't a respected position anymore...
 
We had an intermediate long range planner position posted earlier in the year. The pay was mid-60s to mid-70s. We got 5 candidates including one internal. Interviewed two, but only one was qualified. They were over-qualified but were getting out of a bad spot. Wound up getting poached for more money in a higher position, don't blame them. I decided to pull it for a bit and try again in a month or two.

The pay could be a bit better, but I don't think its bad. Benefits are typical for government job around here. Good pension, great medical, lots of holidays, pay for training and memberships. We don't do any flex work or work from home. We're a small town without much name recognition, but close to a major university and less than 90 minutes to ATL.

It seems to me that most of the good young planners who can write plans or regs around here get snapped up by the dark side.
 
bureaucrat#3 said:
We had an intermediate long range planner position posted earlier in the year. The pay was mid-60s to mid-70s. We got 5 candidates including one internal. Interviewed two, but only one was qualified. They were over-qualified but were getting out of a bad spot. Wound up getting poached for more money in a higher position, don't blame them. I decided to pull it for a bit and try again in a month or two.

The pay could be a bit better, but I don't think its bad. Benefits are typical for government job around here. Good pension, great medical, lots of holidays, pay for training and memberships. We don't do any flex work or work from home. We're a small town without much name recognition, but close to a major university and less than 90 minutes to ATL.

It seems to me that most of the good young planners who can write plans or regs around here get snapped up by the dark side.
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What is that salary in comparison to local median rents/mortgage costs?

That may be a much better indicator of 'interest'.

Plus, it sounds like your local politics are less than acceptable.
 
MD Planner said:
Who else is having trouble filling open positions? I've got a Senior Planner role that will pay right around six figures to start for a candidate with some comp planning experience. Eight applications so far and not one even worth interviewing.

The last time we filled this position (after it was created) it took two years to find someone. Great location, excellent pay and benefits; I just don't get it.
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This is popping up more.
  • take a look at how your advertisement is written. Can you integrate things they might be worried about? For example, if your employer has a great atmosphere of respect up through elected leaders, say that. List cool current/upcoming projects that might be exciting (like if you have a plan update coming up or something). Spin up the discussion about quality of life and things to do in your community. Get away from the bureaucratic standard description.
  • I'm seeing director jobs opening and not filling quickly. In my region, the three premier director jobs (other than the central city) are all open right now.
  • I can say that my quality of life is significantly better in the private sector now--historically that was not the case. That's a problem considering public sector work is just plain unpleasant these days. There's also a strong anti-institution mindset prevailing within the employment market--that you cannot exact change from the inside.
 
mendelman said:
What is that salary in comparison to local median rents/mortgage costs?

That may be a much better indicator of 'interest'.

Plus, it sounds like your local politics are less than acceptable.
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A single person could qualify for an entry level home based on the salary. Homes start in $250K, townhomes are less, and rent for a 2 bedroom apartment is probably $1,500 per month.
Politics will hopefully settle after elections later this month. That's one of the main reasons I'm waiting a bit. Being able to tell people that the unreasonable candidates didn't get elected would be nice. We'll have to see.
 
I often wonder if there's still a lack of talent stemming from the Great Recession, but things got better by 2015/16. I'm amazed that was 10 years ago! With so few starting out in positions back then and veterans in the profession taking lower level positions just stay in the field or to retire, the pipeline for future candidates became smaller.

DVD said:
We usually hire within for higher level positions, but for lower level we get a lot of applicants that I don't see as worth it. I can get plenty of people with the right qualifications, but not the right attitude.
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Personal fit is a killer for entry level positions. There were a number of times where I'd be a good fit on paper with my Master's and experience, but the employer turned me down. One reason is my personality, another is compensation, and another reason that my mentor has suggested is due to my gender identity. However, the third one is for another topic.
 
DVD said:
For us, personality is a big issue, mostly trying to find helpful, service oriented people and not typical bureaucrats that follow the letter of the codes. Compensation is a problem for us, but nothing I can do about that. Identity is amazingly not a problem.
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This is a huge hiring point for us. We have to hire pleasant, friendly, service oriented people that can work a code and tell people "no" when necessary, but with a smile on your face. Our job is often saying you can't do what you want exactly, but here's an alternative that will work. I've seen some really good planners derailed because (a) they don't have the people skills to work with other staff or people they may not like without looking miserable or (b) they can't tell people no.
 
I always wonder of those people lacking people skills would work better in private sector. I have a guy that's super smart and understands codes and planning, but his people skills are severely lacking and his answer is always no or here is a long list of corrections. My gut says no, the darkside doesn't want them either.
 
I counseled an intern at my first public planning job (and I was only about 1.5 years into the profession too) that if he knows with certainty that he doesn't want to work with the public for a municipality, then he needs to find another path.

After the internship, he went out west and got a 'behind the scenes' job with the US Parks Service. Much better for him.
 
FunkBrothers said:
I often wonder if there's still a lack of talent stemming from the Great Recession, but things got better by 2015/16. I'm amazed that was 10 years ago! With so few starting out in positions back then and veterans in the profession taking lower level positions just stay in the field or to retire, the pipeline for future candidates became smaller.
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100% yes. I've watched the "recession dip" of planners work its way through mid-level and now sitting at director-level positions. Same phenomenon in private sector, where it is most problematic for finding people experienced in development codes. Development codes, more than anything, are reliant on direct experience for both quality results and credibility with clients. You really have to have seen some shit.
 
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