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Detroit: Then, Now, The Future

WSU MUP Student said:
Noted Urban Planner Coming to Detroit (And it's not an article about me going downtown yesterday evening for bowling night!)

Maybe something really will come of Detroit's downsizing plan. The Kresge Foundation has already hired a planner that will be paid by the foundation but work for the city's planning and economic development department. I can imagine others in the city (either regular citizens or folks in the city government) who might feel this is some sort of conflict of interest by having an outsider, paid for by a suburban foundation no less! gasp! :-c working in such a capacity....
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It looks like this plan is still slowly chugging along. The Detroit Future City publicly released its plan yesterday and today the Kresge Foundation announced they are pledging $150 million towards implementation. That could go towards a lot of property buyback and demolition.

I have yet to read the full 347 page plan but hope to go through a lot of it on my down time at work over the next couple of days.
 
I don't usually like to promote ruin porn, and I think the article that accompanies the photos purposefully glosses over the fact that Cass Tech as an institute still flourishes, albeit in a new building, but this is indeed a pretty cool idea for a series of photographs:

The Life and Death of an Iconic Detroit High School

Full photo series at Detroit Urbex


2z4n1ic.jpg
 
At least Cass Technical H. S. was replaced and not closed.

My Uncle was a Graduate of that school. I wanted to go too but the 'rents wanted me to go to a Catholic high school instead. A lot of good that did! :science:
 
DetroitPlanner said:
At least Cass Technical H. S. was replaced and not closed.

My Uncle was a Graduate of that school. I wanted to go too but the 'rents wanted me to go to a Catholic high school instead. A lot of good that did! :science:
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My dad had an opportunity to go to Cranbrook as a resident student for free through high school thanks to the Episcopal diocese in the early 1950s but his parents turned it down because he was invited to go to Cass Tech for a few classes a day each year and they thought that would be a better opportunity. I think that is a pretty good testament to how strong of a school that was... and still is. The few young adults I've met that went to Cass Tech over the past decade have all seemed very smart and very well grounded.

I remember going in there in 1996 as a high school senior from the sticks for a competition I was in and just being in awe of the architecture and the facilities. I never knew high schools like that actually existed outside of the movies or television. FWIW, I've been in the new version as well and it too is quite impressive in its own right.
 
DetroitPlanner said:
At least Cass Technical H. S. was replaced and not closed.

My Uncle was a Graduate of that school. I wanted to go too but the 'rents wanted me to go to a Catholic high school instead. A lot of good that did! :science:
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It's too bad the old Cass Tech buikding wasn't rehabbed or saved. Buffalo Public Schools is taking a much different approach; they're putting billions of dollars into renovatilns and uogrades of their older school buildimgs. Space is an issue; there's not nearly the same amount of vacant land as in Detroit. Also, there's a heightened awareness of Buffalo's historic building stock, and a greater value is placed on preserving older structures even when it might make more economic sense to build new.

I attended Hutchinson Central Technical High School, tbe Buffalo equivalent of Cass Tech or Brooklyn Tech. Hutch Tech is in downtown Buffalo, was built in 1917, and is very similar to Cass Tech. Instead of relocation and demolition, the school was rehabbed. I took a tour a few years ago, and the result is spectacular. Square footage was greatly expanded in the existing building footprint, yet the appearance from the street remains intact.
 
The guy who I blame for me having to move out is done. I am elated with this. I only wish I had some safety in my old hood for those still trapped there.
 
DetroitPlanner said:
At least Cass Technical H. S. was replaced and not closed.

My Uncle was a Graduate of that school. I wanted to go too but the 'rents wanted me to go to a Catholic high school instead. A lot of good that did! :science:
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My brother ('85) and dad ('62) went to Cass. I have my dad's yearbook and it is pretty darn awesome. My brother struggled to graduate having to catch multiple buses everyday to get downtown from our house at 7 & Gratiot. I think he was a Bio-Tech major or something like that. I definitely did not want to go to Cass and was super fortunate to be able to cobble together enough money to go to a Catholic HS. I was heading to Denby or Finney otherwise.
 
plankton said:
My brother ('85) and dad ('62) went to Cass. I have my dad's yearbook and it is pretty darn awesome. My brother struggled to graduate having to catch multiple buses everyday to get downtown from our house at 7 & Gratiot. I think he was a Bio-Tech major or something like that. I definitely did not want to go to Cass and was super fortunate to be able to cobble together enough money to go to a Catholic HS. I was heading to Denby or Finney otherwise.
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7 and Gratiot would have been easy! I grew up at Joy and Southfield. I too cobbled together $$ for the Catholic HS. That was only one bus away! I was responsible for paying for the books, fees, and transportation.
 
Yep...history makin' in the D.

I see the assets of the DIA and Zoo as the first valuable assets to be sold off. There's an estimated $1,000,000,000 worth of art at the DIA, which is all owned by the City.
 
mendelman said:
I see the assets of the DIA and Zoo as the first valuable assets to be sold off. .
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Came here to post this. It's a frightening thought. Detroit isn't exactly known as a center of high culture, and to lose the collection of its only major art museum would be devastating. I thought DIA would be private.

(Slightly OT: several years ago, the Albright-Knox Art Gallery in Buffalo sold off a large part of its collection; mostly works in long-term storage that couldn't be considered modern art. The intent was to increase the gallery's endowment, so it could compete with galleries in larger cities in acquiring new works. Still, there was a a lot of outrage among locals. I could see some of DIA's modern art collection landing in Buffalo.)

I can see one bright side to this: the disposition of city-owned vacant land, returning it to the tax rolls. Hopefully, they'll be selling contiguous parcels rather than individual lots.
 
The DIA is publicly owned by the City. Recently there has been millages passed in the suburbs to help sustain both the Museum and the Zoo. There are now regional boards that run these institutions. Most of the art was loaned to the DIA by deep pocketed early lumber barons and induistrialists. Technically, most of the art is owned by those families not Detroit.

The collection is mind boggling. Some of The beTTer known arTworks include le Penser (the Thinker) by Rodin, Van Gogh's and Warhol's self-portraits, a shrine of murals to the working man by Diego Rivera paid for by the Ford family. You will also find everything from the first Howdy Doody and Kermit the Frog to several works by Cezanne, Picasso, Serault... and a whole slew of other impressionists/modernists. The museum itself has just undergone a renovation and 60,000 square foot expansion paid for by today's rich folk. The DIA also is one of the major alt film theaters in town.

You would be surprised at how much cultural institutions are loved and supported here. Not too many towns can boast of both a world class symphony hall as well as an opera house.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_Institute_of_Arts

It is not the only Art museum in town though it is the most known and visited. There is also Cranbrook http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cranbrook_Educational_Community In addition there are artist studios everywhere in town. This is due to two things: rent is dirt cheap and hipsters and artists love to get inspired by the grit. Russell Industrial Center is an agglomeration of artist studios in an old car factory. http://www.modeldmedia.com/features/russell129.aspx

My parents were both City of Detroit employees. The future of Pensions are currently unknown.
 
DetroitPlanner said:
The issue here is that the growth in unequal. While the core is indeed growing the neighborhoods are getting no investment and are emptying out. Its not so much of a growth strategy as one of centralization. You feel shrinkage if you live in your average neighborhood.
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What is your take on what would bring investment into the neighborhoods?
 
imaplanner said:
What is your take on what would bring investment into the neighborhoods?
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Well, you didn't ask me, but I'll give my two cents - people would actually want to live there (ie, full and timely municipal services, acceptable schools, living wage jobs not a minimum 10 miles away....).
 
"Investment" into the neighborhoods means people moving in.

The major factors in determining where to live is the school district, proximity to work, and perceived crime rate. However, Metro Detroit residents are notorious for dealing with long commutes, so I don't think that's much of an impediment. Plus, the urban core is beginning to attract more regional/national companies.

The City can fix it's crime problem. That's simply a numbers game.

To me, the big problem is the school district. Unfortunately, I think the DPS system needs to be abolished, with the creation of a City-wide charter school system. It couldn't be any worse than what's there now.
 
imaplanner said:
What is your take on what would bring investment into the neighborhoods?
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mendelman said:
Well, you didn't ask me, but I'll give my two cents - people would actually want to live there (ie, full and timely municipal services, acceptable schools, living wage jobs not a minimum 10 miles away....).
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btrage said:
"Investment" into the neighborhoods means people moving in.

The major factors in determining where to live is the school district, proximity to work, and perceived crime rate. However, Metro Detroit residents are notorious for dealing with long commutes, so I don't think that's much of an impediment. Plus, the urban core is beginning to attract more regional/national companies.

The City can fix it's crime problem. That's simply a numbers game.

To me, the big problem is the school district. Unfortunately, I think the DPS system needs to be abolished, with the creation of a City-wide charter school system. It couldn't be any worse than what's there now.
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I used to think that DPS was the major problem but after looking into the abysmal Chicago public school system, I've begun to lean more towards fixing basic city services and the crime problem as more important than the schools. I'm not saying that the schools are great (or even all that good) but Chicago should be proof that families will still move into a city even with terrible schools. Being able to deliver basic city services and police and fire protection to residents in a timely manner should be a top priority if you want to retain current residents and attract new ones. And once you get outside of downtown and Midtown the crime problem is no longer just a perceived one. And now that crime (property and violent) is basically under control in Midtown (thanks to overlapping patrols by State Police, DPD, and WSU) residential development might actually be called booming. And people I talk to that live downtown say they've begun to see a spillover of new residents downtown as well.

I imagine that the vast majority of these residents have no children. If the city wants to keep them as residents when they are ready buy a house and maybe have children, they are going to ensure that once they move to Corktown, Woodbridge, Denby, Southwest... that their cars are not broken into weekly, that their lawn furniture isn't constantly being stolen off of their porches, that their garage doors aren't being tagged by graffiti as quickly as they can wash it off, that police come faster than 58 minutes after being called, that garbage is collected on a regular schedule, etc.
 
So the lack of services is primarily due to the lack of investment (residents and taxes) which is primarily due to the high crime rate, which is also pretty much due to the lack of services? Has there even been any attempts to utilize state funding to help clean up those neighborhoods?
 
WSU MUP Student said:
I used to think that DPS was the major problem but after looking into the abysmal Chicago public school system, I've begun to lean more towards fixing basic city services and the crime problem as more important than the schools. I'm not saying that the schools are great (or even all that good) but Chicago should be proof that families will still move into a city even with terrible schools. Being able to deliver basic city services and police and fire protection to residents in a timely manner should be a top priority if you want to retain current residents and attract new ones. And once you get outside of downtown and Midtown the crime problem is no longer just a perceived one. And now that crime (property and violent) is basically under control in Midtown (thanks to overlapping patrols by State Police, DPD, and WSU) residential development might actually be called booming. And people I talk to that live downtown say they've begun to see a spillover of new residents downtown as well.

I imagine that the vast majority of these residents have no children. If the city wants to keep them as residents when they are ready buy a house and maybe have children, they are going to ensure that once they move to Corktown, Woodbridge, Denby, Southwest... that their cars are not broken into weekly, that their lawn furniture isn't constantly being stolen off of their porches, that their garage doors aren't being tagged by graffiti as quickly as they can wash it off, that police come faster than 58 minutes after being called, that garbage is collected on a regular schedule, etc.
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They could always order Domino's and ask for the cops. :D

I am still convinced that the future of Detroit is suburban-style residential development. That's the only efficient way to utilize all of the vacant and/or underutilized land.

Sure, you can have some urban agriculture mixed in, but it's not the answer. Detroit is never going to get back to 2.5 million people. I know this is contrary to all thinking about urbanization, but I just don't see how you're going to repopulate the City any other way, outside of larger lot, residential development.
 
I just can't wrap my brain around the scale of the problem. Not just Detroit but the inner ring(s) suburbs as well. I can't see that much area being reclaimed/restored without massive federal assistance over several decades and I don't think that the courts will ever let projects on the scale of 50's and 60's urban renewal happen again. It just looks like a long, long future of small incremental upgrades in some areas with continuing decline and abandonment in others.
 
btrage said:
Sure, you can have some urban agriculture mixed in, but it's not the answer. Detroit is never going to get back to 2.5 million people. I know this is contrary to all thinking about urbanization, but I just don't see how you're going to repopulate the City any other way, outside of larger lot, residential development.
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Actually Detroit only had about 2 million people when it peaked in the mid 1950's. A huge amount of Detroit's scrub land is old industrial sites. My vision would be to create other low intensity uses that would draw people to live near them. A lot of retirees want to live on golf courses, and you could probably cobble together some bizarre/unique holes. They won't care much about the schools but they would about crime.

I grew up in Detroit and left it a couple of years ago for the burbs. Why did I leave? Crime. Within one month my house was broken into 3 times, the house to the S of mine was set afire by squatters, and the house to the N of me had all of the windows stolen out of it. Word got out that I had a 'good job' so I was getting calls during meetings that my home was getting broken into, my alarm was off and did they want me to call the cops! I donated the home to a non-profit who used it to get revenue to rear down blight. I knew it would never sell even though it had some great features: New windows, textured roof, all brick, a new kitchen. I consider myself lucky. Many of my neighbors got so far in debt they had no choice than to either stay, or be foreclosed on.

If it was not for the crime I would still be there. I liked the neighborhood in general though it was getting harder to walk places without getting hassled. I also realized at 45 the kids were now seeing me as prey instead of as a big 6'5" streetwise dude.

Growing up gave me a unique perspective too. I went to DPS for kindergarten and during summer school so I would not fall behind in math. (never quite 'got' higher level math until I was in college and was using trig for mapping and astro-physics). All other grades I went to Catholic schools. I ended up back in public universities and colleges though. It was pretty much understood that kids in the Detroit Public Schools would have little chance of succeeding at much. The drop out rate was something like 50 percent. For white kids it was even higher as we were the visible minority. My parents understood this and shelled out 20 percent of their income for 15 years to get their kids to just graduate from High School. Needless to say there was no money for college other than what I could earn cobbling together part time jobs.

Still I had it better than most of my neighbors and while we were by no means rich we were not as poor as half the families in the neighborhood.

So fix the schools, figure out a way to hire cops when you can't give them pensions anymore, redevelop in a way that reduces infrastructure and invites more development and there is a good chance you can save 30-40 percent of the neighborhoods.

Today there was an announcement of a new sub going in down by the river just blocks from GM's HQ. Even though we are now broke, people are still moving here and the demand has never been better for good housing or office space. Its crazy.
 
ofos said:
I just can't wrap my brain around the scale of the problem. Not just Detroit but the inner ring(s) suburbs as well. I can't see that much area being reclaimed/restored without massive federal assistance over several decades and I don't think that the courts will ever let projects on the scale of 50's and 60's urban renewal happen again. It just looks like a long, long future of small incremental upgrades in some areas with continuing decline and abandonment in others.
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True lots of inner ring suburbs have a lot of issues, the same ones that Detroit is dealing with. Warren was once the 3rd largest City in the state it was mostly developed in the 1950's and it is losing population and its manufacturing base as fast as Flint and Detroit did. Places like Ecorse, River Rouge, Highland Park, Hamtramck, Hazel Park, Pontiac and Inkster are probably in worse shape now than Detroit. Even some attractive suburbs like Allen Park are having huge issues with debt and have proposed 10 mill property tax millages that (surprise) fail.
 
DetroitPlanner said:
Actually Detroit only had about 2 million people when it peaked in the mid 1950's. A huge amount of Detroit's scrub land is old industrial sites. My vision would be to create other low intensity uses that would draw people to live near them. A lot of retirees want to live on golf courses, and you could probably cobble together some bizarre/unique holes. They won't care much about the schools but they would about crime...
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When I play benevolent developer in my head, I actually have dreams of buying up the biggest, cheapest tract of vacant land in the city that I can, demolishing everything, and putting in a golf course and developing housing (and neighborhood style retail/commercial if there happens to be an arterial street running through my tracts) around it.
 
btrage said:
I am still convinced that the future of Detroit is suburban-style residential development. That's the only efficient way to utilize all of the vacant and/or underutilized land..
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Suburbanization was the strategy Buffalo took in the 1980s and 1990s, until it met with a backlash from neighborhood activists, the preservation community, and vocal urbanists. There was also realization that Buffalo couldn't' imitate the success of the suburbs just by copying their built environment. Young people were returning to the city, and the dense urban built environment was a major draw.

Quality of the housing stock remains a major issue in Buffalo, though. The vast majority of Buffalo's housing stock was built before WWII. With that character comes a lack of amenities and features many now take for granted..With a hot real estate market, Hhomebuyers are willing to overlook small bedrooms and closets if the neighborhood makes up for it. However, in less desirable neighborhoods on the beleaguered East Side, where the modal house is a pre-1910 worker's cottage on a narrow lot with no off-street parking, it's going to be a long road to recovery. Cottages are hot on the West Side, but there it makes financial sense to spend the tens of thousands of dollars it takes to update them. Dump $100K into a $50K cottage west of Main, and the result is a $200,000 cottage in a gentrifying neighborhood. Dump $100K into a $10K cottage east of Main, and the result is a $20K cottage on the urban prairie.

One of the shocking differences between Detroit and Buffalo. In Buffalo, it's mainly areas on the East Side that were working class from the start that are reverting to urban prairie. In Detroit, formerly middle class and upper income neighborhoods are also struggling. Detroit proper, at least, has a somewhat more modern housing stock, with the majority built after the emergence of what we now call the middle class. I think Detroit is blessed with a much better housing stock than Buffalo, and an expanding urban prairie would further erode one asset the city still has, which Buffalo has used to aid its recovery - its urban built environment.
 
DetroitPlanner said:
True lots of inner ring suburbs have a lot of issues, the same ones that Detroit is dealing with. Warren was once the 3rd largest City in the state it was mostly developed in the 1950's and it is losing population and its manufacturing base as fast as Flint and Detroit did.
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It was an issue I had to deal with when I worked as a planner in the Cleveland area. Some suburbs, like Wickliffe, Willowick, and Eastlake, developed almost overnight, with a monoculture of the kind of housing in demand at the time; small ranch and Cape Cod houses. They have none of the character or urban surroundings of older houses, and none of the amenities or features of newer housing. In Buffalo, it's Cheektowaga whose future is in doubt, with a housing stock built almost exclusively for working- and lower middle-class factory workers. 88,000 residents, 430 homes for sale, and only 32 priced above $150,000. It's also adjacent to the East Side of Buffalo.

What do Michigan-area Cyburbians see in the future for Southfield?
 
Dan said:
It was an issue I had to deal with when I worked as a planner in the Cleveland area. Some suburbs, like Wickliffe, Willowick, and Eastlake, developed almost overnight, with a monoculture of the kind of housing in demand at the time; small ranch and Cape Cod houses. They have none of the character or urban surroundings of older houses, and none of the amenities or features of newer housing. In Buffalo, it's Cheektowaga whose future is in doubt, with a housing stock built almost exclusively for working- and lower middle-class factory workers. 88,000 residents, 430 homes for sale, and only 32 priced above $150,000. It's also adjacent to the East Side of Buffalo.

What do Michigan-area Cyburbians see in the future for Southfield?
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They'll be challenged to keep their business center over the long term, as the draw for companies to return to downtown Detroit is very strong right now.

The only way that Detroit can be improved, without sucking the life out of the suburbs, is with dramatic population increases. But how likely is that? That's one of the reasons I argue that certain areas of Detroit should explore suburbanization.

Remember, people enjoy suburban-style development. Detroit could actually become a model for how suburban-style development can be done properly.

I'm not advocating that Detroit become one big residential subdivision like central Macomb County. But it could be one strategy to use to help repopulate the City.
 
Dan said:
It was an issue I had to deal with when I worked as a planner in the Cleveland area. Some suburbs, like Wickliffe, Willowick, and Eastlake, developed almost overnight, with a monoculture of the kind of housing in demand at the time; small ranch and Cape Cod houses. They have none of the character or urban surroundings of older houses, and none of the amenities or features of newer housing. In Buffalo, it's Cheektowaga whose future is in doubt, with a housing stock built almost exclusively for working- and lower middle-class factory workers. 88,000 residents, 430 homes for sale, and only 32 priced above $150,000. It's also adjacent to the East Side of Buffalo.

What do Michigan-area Cyburbians see in the future for Southfield?
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I live not far from the northern border of Southfield and it is a city that perplexes me.

It is still a major employment center and I think that will continue to be the case. It has the luck of having an area where some major roads all come together (Telegraph (aka U.S. 24); The Lodge/Northwestern Highway; Lahser; I-696; 10, 11, and 12 Mile Roads) and I think that large firms that want a presence in the Detroit market but don't need to be downtown will continue to see Southfield as a viable option. For instance, my wife and many of my close friends work in public accounting and nearly all of them work out of Southfield for various firms. The firms like to use Southfield for their home offices since their staff can easily get anywhere in Metro Detroit from there. Same thing for realtors, commercial bankers, insurers, etc. The city currently has a much higher commercial vacancy rate than they are typically accustomed to, but much of the office stock is in significantly better shape than what you will find in Detroit. If a firm wants to move into the region immediately, or expand quickly, waiting for space to come online or improvements to be made in Detroit may take too long compared to a fresh coat of paint and new carpeting to existing Class A space in Southfield (or nearby Troy). If firms continue to move to Detroit, it will put a strain on the market downtown and some will inevitably look to the suburbs. Of course, if it's Southfield firms that move to Detroit, then it's a different story...

As for the housing stock - Southfield intrigues me. There are some great neighborhoods with very nice houses in scenic (by flat, suburban standards) areas - relatively large lots, mature trees, good upkeep, and what appears to be very solid 1950s ranches, colonials, and split levels. I still remember going to parties when I was little at the house of a coworker of my dad who lived in Southfield. He had about two rolling and wooded acres with the Rouge River running through the backyard and a ranch house that would be the envy of any mid century modern fan. It amazed me that there were places like that in the area that weren't in Bloomfield Hills or Franklin. But then you go a block or two away and you have awful 1970s and 1980s architecture and horribly maintained neighborhoods.
 
Some old Detroit-related videos I foudn on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYTH3AtAko0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLhrzFcVdvs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ4BEa_qa0A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-96SV9LdB3Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUW5bqdKWew

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MNpokiKog4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdUyn5SzJMs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYB1w77amGA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFbSi4lZ-eM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APVLHATaUJs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq-gtYO9g2o




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUbsw28PCpA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evxDI7ce6Z0
 
From what I heard Detroit does not collect 20% of the taxes it is owed and the system that handles the reporting is badly broken. People that no longer own property are getting tax bills while others have not had their payments credited properly. NPR did a story that a small restaurant had to fight to pay his taxes.

I am wondering that through the bankruptcy if Detroit will try to use the courts to allow it to de-annex some of the further outlying areas. Since the township association still claims that this arcane form of local government is still needed they should be lining up to have parts of the Cetroit turned back into townships.
 
I was going to post this in the "Quirks of your local real estate market" thread, but thought it might be more appropriate here.

This is frightening.

$360K in Buffalo. 2000 sq ft, Elmwood Village

sIAm3Gt.png


$360K in Detroit, 6-000 sq ft, .Palmer Woods.

PvSXU4s.png


If Buffalo, a battered Rust Belt city that doesn't have anywhere near the critical mass of Detroit, has the conditions for a hot real estate market, is it possible in Detroit?

A lot of the focus on Detroit has been the decline of the auto industry, racial tensions, and so on. Almost no attention has been paid to the quality of its urban form. Buffalo's neighborhoods are centered on commercial streets that are fairly narrow; usually no more than one lane of traffic in either direction, on-street parking, and maybe a center turning lane. Main Street is as wide as it gets, with two traffic lanes in each direction. Detroit's major streets are much wider, and the bones aren't that great; a lot of one story taxpayer buildings. The spaces don't seem as comfortable and human scaled as neighborhoods in Buffalo, Chicago, or Pittsburgh.

Here's what Elmwood Avenue looks like, courtesy of Google Streetview. One lane of traffic in each direction, on-street parking.

z2mYUQe.jpg


Here's Bailey Avenue, the main street in Kensington, my childhood neighborhood in Buffalo. Kensington is now considered a "ghetto". One lane of traffic in each direction, on-street parking.

ipM6t4K.jpg


Main Street in Buffalo. Two lanes in each direction, on-street parking (both sides where there's no center turning lane or median).

KrxmbV9.jpg


Here's Woodward Avenue next to Palmer Woods. Five lanes of traffic in each direction no on-street parking.

zouebbC.jpg


People moving into cities want vibrant, comfortable neighborhood centers. I don't think the conditions are right in Detroit to create such places, at least not without some major restructuring.

Consider Nine Mile in Ferndale, which has a profile similar to major arterials in Buffalo. Two story buildings frame the street nicely.

thdbCn2.jpg


Some of the mile roads in Detroit proper have a similar profile, but they're framed by one story taxpayers, making the street seem much wider. Here's Seven Mile.

4RpOQG3.jpg
 
^^
I agree that Woodward, as well as some of Detroit's other major 'radial' streets, could stand to be narrowed, perhaps down to two lanes in each direction - they were their era's (1920s/1930s) versions of the mid to late 20th century freeways, which supplanted those streets, and to simply maintain all of that pavement for so little traffic is absurd.

Mike
 
Dan said:
If Buffalo, a battered Rust Belt city that doesn't have anywhere near the critical mass of Detroit, has the conditions for a hot real estate market, is it possible in Detroit?
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Buffalo also does not have anywhere from 60,000 - 80,000 derelict homes in its region. This impacts areas very differently. Where I lived 2 years ago, I literally had to give my house away to a non-profit. It was in an area full of homes that until recently were occupied.

My parents are looking to move to a ranch style condo from a home in a historic district. They put in an offer Saturday on one and bid $5k over ask and were going to write a check for it. The owners had an even better offer and were informed this morning to keep looking. The condo is located in a highly desirable area. My sister who is a financial planner but not living here was having a hard time understanding why anything would sell above ask.

Even still the price of homes throughout the region are still way under where they were, though the demand is slighty higher due to the area being hit with a bunch of stripped out uninhabitable eyesores.
 
mgk920 said:
^^
I agree that Woodward, as well as some of Detroit's other major 'radial' streets, could stand to be narrowed, perhaps down to two lanes in each direction - they were their era's (1920s/1930s) versions of the mid to late 20th century freeways, which supplanted those streets, and to simply maintain all of that pavement for so little traffic is absurd.

Mike
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We are going to use the extra ROW for BRT or LRT sometime. Maintain pavement? Ha this is Michigan! Only part of this road that gets maintained is in Bloomfield Hills!
 
DetroitPlanner said:
We are going to use the extra ROW for BRT or LRT sometime. Maintain pavement? Ha this is Michigan! Only part of this road that gets maintained is in Bloomfield Hills!
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The Road Commission knows how to keep me happy! ;)

Other response:

It's easier to maintain Woodward in Bloomfield Hills because we don't have to waste money on any stinking sidewalks or bus stops!
 
mgk920 said:
^^
I agree that Woodward, as well as some of Detroit's other major 'radial' streets, could stand to be narrowed, perhaps down to two lanes in each direction - they were their era's (1920s/1930s) versions of the mid to late 20th century freeways, which supplanted those streets, and to simply maintain all of that pavement for so little traffic is absurd.
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Googled around a bit, and learned about the Detroit Super-Highway program from the 1920s. I've seen a lot of highway plans from the time advocating similar plans to widen roads and create a regional highway network. It seems like Detroit actually pulled it off.

A surprising fact: the original "super-highway" plans were an early form of complete streets,the wide medians were supposed to accommodate rapid transit.

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A couple of relevant links:

http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=8737.0
http://corktownhistory.blogspot.com/2012/11/the-widening-of-michigan-avenue.html

[ot]There was a similar plan for Buffalo, which was also intended to connect roads following roughly the same latitude or longitude, to create new intraregional roads. Some of the plan was actually realized, but the only Detroit-stylr "super-highway" that resulted was Sheridan Drive.

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[/ot]
 
I've also seen early plans that took those below ground trains over into Windsor ON, imagine how freaked out the border guards would be today. I swear they have cut this City in half over paranoia. We still have a lot of cross border traffic, but I can't see how commuters put up with that every day.
 
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This scene just seems so odd to my eyes - a divided highway filled with old 1920s cars. I can't reconcile the scene of what looks to be a modern road, filled with herpy-derpy bouncy cars randomly weaving on the unmarked pavement, and the sounds of gurgling flathead engines and ahooga horns, like some Harold Lloyd movie

You know, something like this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-FNkWeGANA

Anyhow ...

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It goes on, and on, and on ...
 
DetroitPlanner said:
I've also seen early plans that took those below ground trains over into Windsor ON, imagine how freaked out the border guards would be today. I swear they have cut this City in half over paranoia. We still have a lot of cross border traffic, but I can't see how commuters put up with that every day.
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Yea, until the mid 1920s, there were essentially no controls at all along either of the USA's land borders and crossing between Canada and the USA was much like crossing borders in modern-day 'Schengen' Europe. The 18th Amendment changed that all.

:(

Mike
 
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