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Best medium-sized Midwest city

What is the best medium-sized Midwest city?

  • Rockford, IL

    Votes: 1 2.5%
  • Green Bay-Fox Cities, WI

    Votes: 3 7.5%
  • Akron, OH

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Duluth-Superior, MN-WI

    Votes: 3 7.5%
  • Evansville, IN

    Votes: 1 2.5%
  • Quad Cities, IL-IA

    Votes: 1 2.5%
  • Springfield, IL

    Votes: 2 5.0%
  • Kalamazoo-Portage, MI

    Votes: 1 2.5%
  • Fort Wayne, IN

    Votes: 2 5.0%
  • Des Moines, IA

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Madison, WI

    Votes: 12 30.0%
  • Youngstown-Warren, OH

    Votes: 1 2.5%
  • Grand Rapids, MI

    Votes: 4 10.0%
  • Peoria, IL

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Flint, MI

    Votes: 1 2.5%
  • South Bend-Mishawaka, IN

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Cedar Rapids, IA

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Ann Arbor, MI

    Votes: 7 17.5%
  • Dayton, OH

    Votes: 1 2.5%
  • Lansing, MI

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    40
  • Poll closed .

illinoisplanner

Cyburbian
Messages
5,334
Points
25
Cities selected had to be generally between 100,000 and 250,000, and not be contiguous with a larger metropolitan area.

Sorry, but due to space limitations, I had to limit the Midwest to MN, IA, WI, IL, MI, IN, and OH, as well as omitted a few other combination cities, like the Saginaw area and the IL college towns.
 
I had to vote for the home town. I almost clicked Madison based on reputation but I've never been there.
 
I still like my home town (Fort Wayne), but huge urban sprawl, dead downtown, racial and class tensions...

I picked Ann Arbor, which I really liked. Although I might have picked Madison instead if I had thought a little more.

[ot]I would still like to go to Michigan this fall. Maybe visit Grand Rapids. Are there any good things for a planning nerd to see (interesting old red brick factory districts, pedestrian/yuppie villagey areas, a good river walk?)[/ot]
 
I went with Grand Rapids. Sorry I can't give any details on planner oriented sights or smells. From my economic development perspective they are doing a number of things that have kept a bad situation (struggling, changing economy) from getting worse. They have become a source of emulation for other michigan cities.
 
The Fort

I picked Fort Wayne.
I have not visited most of the other cities, although I grew up in the Tri-State area (MI,IN,OH)

Fort wayne has sprawled much since I have been there last. But the town has character, it has its nicer sides and seedier sides, but seemed great for shopping, and traffic was not bad.
 
The poll has too many choices... no selection will get too many votes I'd guess. I picked Madison in any case.
 
My community Peoria, is sometimes underrated. It is also completely outclassed by Ann Arbor, Madison, and Cedar Rapids. jordonB I never thought much of Springfield...felt like a "rural" Bloomington/Normal in the <2 hours I've spent there in my life.
 
Went with Ann Arbor, simply because I have spent the most time there of the choices. I lived there for 5 years while I was getting my undergrad and grad degrees from UM.

It's a pretty nice city with a relatively compact downtown area (including both regular downtown and Central Campus downtown.

The student ghettos surrounding Central Campus are a waste of nice residential neighborhoods, though.
 
ssnyderjr said:
I picked Fort Wayne.
I have not visited most of the other cities, although I grew up in the Tri-State area (MI,IN,OH)

Fort wayne has sprawled much since I have been there last. But the town has character, it has its nicer sides and seedier sides, but seemed great for shopping, and traffic was not bad.

I wondered who voted for the old hometown.

Fort Wayne certainly has nice things. What a fantastic park system, for one. And, I like some of the older neighborhoods. It helps that a young family (or single guy) can actually afford to buy a decent house there, too. :-c
 
jordanb said:
I had to vote for the home town. I almost clicked Madison based on reputation but I've never been there.

It is worth the drive. Go on a Friday so you can get to the farmer's market early Saturday. Spend the rest of the day on State Street, Monroe Street, and checking out the campus. Make sure you walk down Johnson to the beach, which should be packed with UW-Madison bikinis this time of year. :p Spend the evening on the Terrace. You might also check out the Arboretum or rent a lake kayk when you are in town. When you get back you can plead with the mods to change your vote.
 
BKM said:
I picked Ann Arbor, which I really liked. Although I might have picked Madison instead if I had thought a little more.

My old roomate lives in Ann Arbor now and he's been getting pretty down on it. He still thinks it's the best city in Michigan, as far as that goes, but its urbanity is pretty marginal.

Also it's got one of the worst train stations I've ever seen.
 
jordanb said:
My old roomate lives in Ann Arbor now and he's been getting pretty down on it. He still thinks it's the best city in Michigan, as far as that goes, but its urbanity is pretty marginal.

Also it's got one of the worst train stations I've ever seen.
yes, and unfortunately the best "urban" neighborhoods are almost 100% occupied by the student ghettos.

When you use "urban" and "Michigan" in the same sentence it always has to be qualified as being "relative".;-) :-D
 
I voted for Ann Arbor. I could've voted for Madison, but I'm less familiar with it.

So many of these towns are economically, culturally and socially similar, except for Madison and Ann Arbor. They all grew as industrial centers and they've all struggled with their economy in a post-industrial world. But UW and UM gave their respective towns advantages that the others don't enjoy.

BTW, where's Gary, IN on the list? ;)

Sorry, couldn't resist a Gary jab.
 
boiker said:
My community Peoria, is sometimes underrated. It is also completely outclassed by Ann Arbor, Madison, and Cedar Rapids. jordonB I never thought much of Springfield...felt like a "rural" Bloomington/Normal in the <2 hours I've spent there in my life.

Heh, you should hear what people in Springfield say about Peoria. ;)
 
jordanb said:
Heh, you should hear what people in Springfield say about Peoria. ;)

I can guess: Crime infested POS? decaying, hollowed out industrial wasteland? Worthless waste of tax dollars (I-74 project)? Am I not being harsh enough.
 
He he he.....

jordanb said:
I had to vote for the home town. I almost clicked Madison based on reputation but I've never been there.

I did click Madison based only on reputation and I've NEVER been there......The One messing up another survey...:-o :eek:|
 
Is Missouri not considered Midwest? I don't know of any cities that I would consider better than some already mentioned but I am surprised to see that Missouri is not considered Midwest...
 
I voted for Green Bay only because of the Packers. :-D

Now, as far as my more "planning-type" selection--I'd go with Madison. I visited up there and it reminded me of Austin done right. Lot's of public spaces, heavy environmental and recreational assets, a school full of hotties :-$ , but with nowhere near the traffic problems and sprawl that Austin is plagued with.

Jaxspra said:
Is Missouri not considered Midwest? I don't know of any cities that I would consider better than some already mentioned but I am surprised to see that Missouri is not considered Midwest...

I think they were using the "historic" midwest with the more northern bias. Just about everyone I've met has a different definition for midwest. In fact, I think we've had a thread discussing that very thing!
 
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boiker said:
I can guess: Crime infested POS? decaying, hollowed out industrial wasteland? Worthless waste of tax dollars (I-74 project)? Am I not being harsh enough.

Mostly the industrial wasteland thing. Although the real pit is considered to be Decatur. It's also considered to be fairly bland... Springfield has a bit of a chip on its shoulder because it's the captial, a bit like Washington DC.
 
boiker said:
I can guess: Crime infested POS? decaying, hollowed out industrial wasteland? Worthless waste of tax dollars (I-74 project)? Am I not being harsh enough.

Hey. Peoria at least has hills and a bit of gritty character. A City with Moss Avenue, old riverside warehouses with "grill your own gigantic steaks" restaurants, the smell of fermenting alcohol in the air, and a branch of Big Al's can't be all that bad. Springfield has to be the blandest city I've ever visited! :p

BKM channelling his disastrous Bradley University Engineering School Days.
 
jordanb said:
Although the real pit is considered to be Decatur. It's also considered to be fairly bland... Springfield has a bit of a chip on its shoulder because it's the captial, a bit like Washington DC.

Ya.. Decatur.. poor.. poor Decatur. I don't know what you can do to fix that one. It just seems to be stuck in a post-industrial rut. not getting worse.. not getting better..and very vanilla.

Springfield should take advantage of the chip and become something great. It has a steadily increasing population, and a nice location for regional/state transportation needs, great recreational opportunities, more drive for preservation/reuse than Peoria.

demoli85mf.jpg
Historic Presrevation in Peoria.
 
Jaxspra said:
Is Missouri not considered Midwest? I don't know of any cities that I would consider better than some already mentioned but I am surprised to see that Missouri is not considered Midwest...

I'm sorry. The only one eleigible is Springfield, MO anyway, and that's almost in OK/AR. If I had 30 choices instead of 20, I would've included Springfield, MO; Lincoln, NE; Fargo-Moorhead, ND-MN, Topeka, KS; Lawrence, KS; Sioux Falls, SD; and possibly even Louisville and Lexington.
 
pete-rock said:
BTW, where's Gary, IN on the list? ;)

Sorry, couldn't resist a Gary jab.

Sorry, but Gary is contigious with the Chicago metro area and I'm not even sure it's above 100,000 anymore either. I almost considered omitting Ann Arbor too because it's part of the Detroit metro, but it is not really contiguous with it. Good thing I didn't omit it, as it is in 2nd place right now.
 
boiker said:
Springfield should take advantage of the chip and become something great. It has a steadily increasing population, and a nice location for regional/state transportation needs, great recreational opportunities, more drive for preservation/reuse than Peoria.

Ditto that. I almost went with Springfield but had to be loyal to Rockford. It has great potential to be one of America's premier capital cities. With all the historical Lincoln attractions and everything, it is probably only 2nd to Chicago as far as tourism goes.
 
Where Is the Button For Toledo?

Yeah, I know.....Toledo isn't about to get any votes in this poll, yet other places that probably will not get votes are included. Toledo does fit the criteria, if you are looking at metro area populations for these places.

Dayton (845,000)
Grand Rapids (767,000)
Akron (702,000)
Toledo (658,000)

Three (3) of the above included in poll. Guess which city is not?
_____

Of the places listed, this Bear voted for Duluth-Superior. I am quite familiar with this wonderful Lake Superior twin community. I have been to Madison a few times and really do understand the reasons for so many people liking it.

Ann Arbor is very familiar to me for a variety of reasons, including the fact that my son lived there for most of his life (with the ex), it is the home of my favorite college football team (Go Blue!), and the University's Cancer Center contributed to this forum by giving me what I needed to carry on. :)

If it wasn't for my insane love for the "north country" and Lake Superior, double A would have been my pick.

Bear
 
^-- Diluth looks very pretty, with the locks and the bridges, from the photos that I've seen. If I ever do my fantasy boat trip on the great lakes, Diluth will be a destination.
 
Bear Up North said:
Yeah, I know.....Toledo isn't about to get any votes in this poll, yet other places that probably will not get votes are included. Toledo does fit the criteria, if you are looking at metro area populations for these places.

Dayton (845,000)
Grand Rapids (767,000)
Akron (702,000)
Toledo (658,000)

Three (3) of the above included in poll. Guess which city is not?
_____

Of the places listed, this Bear voted for Duluth-Superior. I am quite familiar with this wonderful Lake Superior twin community. I have been to Madison a few times and really do understand the reasons for so many people liking it.

Ann Arbor is very familiar to me for a variety of reasons, including the fact that my son lived there for most of his life (with the ex), it is the home of my favorite college football team (Go Blue!), and the University's Cancer Center contributed to this forum by giving me what I needed to carry on. :)

If it wasn't for my insane love for the "north country" and Lake Superior, double A would have been my pick.

Bear

The city proper has to be between 100,000 to 250,000. If it is a legitimate twin city/quad city situation, where the cities are side-by-side and actually cities, than it's the combination of the cities.

Sorry, but Toledo proper is bigger than 250,000. If I had more options, I probably would've included it...but it's just a tad bigger.
 
illinoisplanner said:
The city proper has to be between 100,000 to 250,000. If it is a legitimate twin city/quad city situation, where the cities are side-by-side and actually cities, than it's the combination of the cities.

Sorry, but Toledo proper is bigger than 250,000. If I had more options, I probably would've included it...but it's just a tad bigger.

Gotta say that it has been a long time since I heard a reference to Toledo being too big (....."tad bigger".....). :) :)

I kinda guessed that that was the rule....it just wasn't that clear to a slow and rambling-along bear. I probably had my Arrowsmith CD on too loud. ;-)

Bear
 
Great Midwestern cities

I voted for Ann Arbor, as I spent a summer there as an undergrad, and hope to go to Planning School there next fall. What a beautiful city, a hansome grid, and short distances to Detroit, Columbus and Lakes Huron/Michigan.

I have never been to Madison or Duluth, but I do hope to visit the latter when I go on a road trip across US on Highway 2 (which goes from Maine to Washington)!
 
It appears people like the chic college towns of Madison and Ann Arbor most, with a combined 50%.

Feel free to keep voting, but I will now begin my 2nd medium-sized city installment: "Best medium-sized city in the Great Plains"
 
Which is the only one on that list with a major professional sports franchise?

;-)

Low crime rate, growing, great local cultural flavors, mostly positive in its outlook, prosperous, etc (not just because I live in it), makes it my choice.

Mike
 
Well once again I really take exception to your terms of MIDWEST.

There is nothing mid or west about your choices, if OHIO is midwest then by that standard so should Utah and everything in between.

Perhaps you are talking about the midwest that is east the Mississippi River?

AARRGGHHH!!!
 
Queen B said:
Well once again I really take exception to your terms of MIDWEST.

There is nothing mid or west about your choices, if OHIO is midwest then by that standard so should Utah and everything in between.

Perhaps you are talking about the midwest that is east the Mississippi River?

AARRGGHHH!!!

Haven't we had discussions here on the definition of the Midwest? It varies so widely that you could almost argue that anywhere from Pittsburgh to Denver and from the Canadian border to Memphis is "Midwest".

I have my own thoughts on what constitutes the Midwest, but that's for another thread.
 
I voted for Madison. I know you all expected me to vote for Ann Arbor, but Ann Arbor is

#1 Over-rated, there are similar cities in Michigan that are much nicer. I love the website annarborisoverrated.com. makes me smile.

#2 Its not really a small city anymore. It is firmly entrenched into the sprawling blob that is the Detroit Metro Area. I work in downtown Detroit and probably 25 percent of our staff lives in the Ann Arbor/Ypsilanti area. There are only a few farms left in superior and canton townships, the rest is all residential subdivisions and small industrial. You can no longer see farmland on any major corridor that connects Detroit and AA (US-12, M-14 (Dominos does not count as farms), or I-94.

#3 The traffic in Ann Arbor and the snootiness leaves much to be desired.

Madison is set between scenic lakes, has great public spaces, and a real bikes for transportation program. Much of the Huron River (AA's only water) is taken up by railyards and industry (Ride Amtrak from Detroit and you will see). It does have some recreational paths along the river in some parkland, but its not a complete system. Madison had the balls to build the terraces convention center a few years back that was originally designed by FLlW, but never executed. It fits into the city structure great.
 
illinoisplanner said:
I'm sorry. The only one eleigible is Springfield, MO anyway, and that's almost in OK/AR. If I had 30 choices instead of 20, I would've included Springfield, MO; Lincoln, NE; Fargo-Moorhead, ND-MN, Topeka, KS; Lawrence, KS; Sioux Falls, SD; and possibly even Louisville and Lexington.

Springfield's 60 miles north of Arkansas, 70 miles east of Oklahoma. Hillbilly? Yes. Part of the south? Kinda. I grew up there and probably wouldn't rank it high - too many bible-thumpers. :-@ Columbia, MO is much better and is just shy of 100,000.
 
Wow, a list of 20 cities and I haven't been to any of 'em. I guess I gotta get out in the Midwest a lot more.
 
boiker said:
Ya.. Decatur.. poor.. poor Decatur. I don't know what you can do to fix that one. It just seems to be stuck in a post-industrial rut. not getting worse.. not getting better..and very vanilla.

Springfield should take advantage of the chip and become something great. It has a steadily increasing population, and a nice location for regional/state transportation needs, great recreational opportunities, more drive for preservation/reuse than Peoria.
Presrevation in Peoria.[/I]

illinoisplanner said:
Ditto that. I almost went with Springfield but had to be loyal to Rockford. It has great potential to be one of America's premier capital cities. With all the historical Lincoln attractions and everything, it is probably only 2nd to Chicago as far as tourism goes.
I agree with both of you. Springfield has a lot of potential. I think it has the potential to give Madison a run for its money, honestly. Unlike most Central Illinois towns, it isn't facing any serious "urban issues" (deindustralization, falling population, crime, poor schools, etc). In fact, it's doing good by just about any quantitative measure.

It doesn't have a major University (UIS doesn't count, it's small and way the hell out on an interstate interchange), but as illinoisplanner pointed out, it has a good deal of tourism. That is an asset Madison doesn't have. Unfortunately most tourism comes from road trippers who stop through to see the Lincoln sites, or as part of a Route 66 trip (Springfield's contribution to Route 66 is that awful, tired 50s and 60s kitsch along Dirksen Parkway, but I guess that's what Route 66 tourists are looking for).

Downtown Springfield has the potential to be something really great. It has a good deal of intact fabric from the early 20th century and earlier. Most of the institutional buildings are 1930s WPA and City Beautiful era neoclassical structures. Mid-century institutional abortions (a la Albany and so many other state capitals) are largely nonexistent in downtown Springfield. There are exceptions of course, like the Willard Ice building and the Prairie State Convention Center (horrible 1980s urban renewal) but they certainly don't set the tone for downtown. In fact if anything, the tone is set by the wonderful City Beautiful complex surrounding the Capitol (which is itself one of the best statehouses in the country). The complex consists of the State Archive, the Secretary of State Building, the Supreme Court Building, the Armory, and much more recently, the State Library. Although the State Library was built in the 1990s, thankfully the evil historicists won out against the architectural purists and the building was built neoclassical to fit into the surrounding complex.

The problem is that while downtown has a lot of great bits, the whole thing is rather disjointed, and that combines with the general lack of life in the area to make for a lackluster pedestrian environment. For instance, Springfield is lucky to still have a downtown train station (in an old IC station that was brilliantly restored a few years ago) but although it's only a few blocks from the Capitol Complex, almost the entire way is nothing but barren parking lots. There's been a lot of interest in revitalizing downtown Springfield, and like boiker said, it has a healthy historical preservation culture, but I don't think there's anyone there who really parks their car and tries walking around downtown. It's just not on people's minds so much. And that's why all the bits fall so short.

Of course things are changing. Like, a group made it their business to get a good set of bars (many fairly upscale, like a martini lounge) built downtown. It's become such a thing that my family now uses "going downtown" as a euphemism for going drinking. Like, "let's go downtown tonight." It wasn't at all like that when I was growing up. Downtown was alive from 8:30 AM to 5:30 PM weekdays and depressingly dead otherwise. Now it's alive from 8:30 AM to 5:30 PM and then dead until 9:00PM at which point it maintains some life until 1:00AM, especially on Friday and Saturday night. You're not going to build a bustling town like that, of course, unless some of the 20 somethings living in heartless apartment complexes in the west side sprawl realize that they can avoid getting a DUI if they just happened to live in one of those historical buildings right next to the bars downtown. So maybe that's the ticket: use drinking to draw young residents downtown, and then visitors won't be the only people walking around, and it won't be such a miserable pedestrian environment even with the barren zones. If you don't have a major University you've got to work with what you have.

At any rate, I think that if they could inject some life into downtown, with residents and activities, and really focus on a good pedestrian environment linking all of the downtown Lincoln sites and the train station and other major points of interest and employment centers (Capitol), Springfield could really be something great, especially if the Amtrak Statehouse Corridor (Chicago to St. Louis) finally gets the service upgrades many people envision. But even if not, people love driving to say, Charleston SC and parking their car and spending the rest of the day exploring on foot. I think that's what people really want out of a downtown tourist destination, and there are already a ton of Chicago based state workers who use Amtrak to get to Springfield. Having a pleasant walk to the Springfield office would make it a more attractive to use that as an option. The problem is, like I've said, I don't really think there are very many people in Springfield who think like that. Nearly everyone thinks only in terms of auto access. The city has no real traffic problems so the only impetus for pedestrianism is avoidance of DUIs, and while the population is expanding, young people who'd really like an urban environment (like me) are constantly getting poached by Chicago and, increasingly, St Louis, so there's a real "yuppie drain," as it were. So the main limitations of the town aren't related to its built environment, which has the potential to be very good, but rather, the mental blocks in place among the people trying to improve it.
 
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boiker said:
Ya.. Decatur.. poor.. poor Decatur. I don't know what you can do to fix that one. It just seems to be stuck in a post-industrial rut. not getting worse.. not getting better..and very vanilla.
Well, yes. But things are looking up, somewhat. Decatur has the largest HOPE VI project in the state (yes, bigger than any in Chicago, at least currently) that promises to breathe new life into downtown. The new mayor has a strong sense of history and a commitment to downtown. They are even studying returning the Transfer House to its original site in the intersection of Main and Main. That would be cool if they can pull it off and convince IDOT to let them do it.

Decatur does not have the advantage that makes Peoria the most successful downstate downtown in that Peoria's largest corporate citizen, Caterpillar Corp., has located their corporate headquarters downtown. By contrast, ADM Corp., a multi-meganational food processing and research corporation that employs 4,000 locally, has their corporate headquarters three miles east of downtown near the East Plant. ADM just has not made the commitment to the city that Caterpillar has made, or like State Farm has made to Bloomington. However, the old guard at ADM is retiring, and the young turks seem more committed to the city; for instance, the ADM Corporate Training Center is now downtown, and that has led to some new restaurants and clubs opening downtown. They also have the best art house theater downstate (the Avon)--yes, better than any in Champaign-Urbana.

And the neighborhoods-well, with only a few exceptions, the older neighborhoods are dismal. And, the shopping and dining choices are limited (local surveys show a pent up demand for an Olive Garden--showing how few choices are available in Decatur, and also showing a decided lack of sophistication when it comes to Italian food. I might add that Olive Garden is not interested...).

So, while Decatur is not the worst town in downstate Illinois (ever been to Kankakee, Danville, Pekin or East St. Louis?), Boiker is right that much needs to be done. I would add that in my opinion, Peoria is a very interesting city with a nice downtown, an ever improving riverfront and some fantastic topography. It is much nicer than Springfield, for that matter.
 
As to the poll--I voted for my adopted hometown, Grand Rapids. While not having the university related amenities of Madison and Ann Arbor, this town has it all while still being affordable and a darn good place to raise kids. The advantages of GR have been extolled on previous threads.

If I could have a second vote, it would go to my birth place, Cedar Rapids, IA. The last city over 100,000 to use the commission form of government, they finally voted a charter change a year or so ago to go to a strong mayor form. A very nice city on a river with the city government on an island. The Paris of the Midwest.

Other cities of note in the Midwest are Rochester MN (with its world class Mayo Clinic) and Dubuque Iowa, probably the most beautiful and historically intact city on the Mississippi River.
 
DecaturHawk said:
Well, yes. But things are looking up, somewhat. Decatur has the largest HOPE VI project in the state (yes, bigger than any in Chicago, at least currently) that promises to breathe new life into downtown. The new mayor has a strong sense of history and a commitment to downtown. They are even studying returning the Transfer House to its original site in the intersection of Main and Main. That would be cool if they can pull it off and convince IDOT to let them do it.

Decatur does not have the advantage that makes Peoria the most successful downstate downtown in that Peoria's largest corporate citizen, Caterpillar Corp., has located their corporate headquarters downtown. By contrast, ADM Corp., a multi-meganational food processing and research corporation that employs 4,000 locally, has their corporate headquarters three miles east of downtown near the East Plant. ADM just has not made the commitment to the city that Caterpillar has made, or like State Farm has made to Bloomington. However, the old guard at ADM is retiring, and the young turks seem more committed to the city; for instance, the ADM Corporate Training Center is now downtown, and that has led to some new restaurants and clubs opening downtown. They also have the best art house theater downstate (the Avon)--yes, better than any in Champaign-Urbana.

And the neighborhoods-well, with only a few exceptions, the older neighborhoods are dismal. And, the shopping and dining choices are limited (local surveys show a pent up demand for an Olive Garden--showing how few choices are available in Decatur, and also showing a decided lack of sophistication when it comes to Italian food. I might add that Olive Garden is not interested...).

So, while Decatur is not the worst town in downstate Illinois (ever been to Kankakee, Danville, Pekin or East St. Louis?), Boiker is right that much needs to be done. I would add that in my opinion, Peoria is a very interesting city with a nice downtown, an ever improving riverfront and some fantastic topography. It is much nicer than Springfield, for that matter.

I also notice that what retail you guys do get goes to nearby Forsyth instead. I see Best Buy just opened there.
 
Having never ventured nearer to the Midwest than moreton island, i had to vote Kalamazoo-Porterage.

1) I like the name.
2) Felt sorry for it, being all left out and solidly beaten by Madison.
3) Was determined to vote, and to vote for anywhere not in Ohio. My dad got a transfer to Marion there when I was about seven, and I've had an unreasonable fear of the state ever since.
 
illinoisplanner said:
I also notice that what retail you guys do get goes to nearby Forsyth instead. I see Best Buy just opened there.
When the mall developers showed up in the early '70's, they tried to locate within Decatur, but at the time the City Council was dominated by downtown interests. An annexation agreement to annex the mall land to Decatur was defeated 5-4. The mall property was about 3/4 miles from the Forsyth limits at that time. The developers then went to Forsyth and offered to extend utilities at their own expense. The Decatur City Council thought they were bluffing, but no, they annexed to Forsyth and all of the mall-related businesses went there, too. This is still a sore spot for many of the old timers in Decatur who can't forget how the city "lost the mall to Forsyth."

However, Decatur has both WalMarts and a new Target, as well as Circuit City and the only Starbucks in the area. Decatur's economic development efforts have been very aggressive, and Decatur probably has one of the best planning and ED directors downstate (my former boss). I see better times for Decatur, but it is gonna take a long time to get there.
 
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