Trash blown onto adjacent properties

[SW MI Planner]

The property (vacant) surrounding our local big box is a disaster - bags, receipts, junk. The big box is saying it isn't all theirs. The adjacent property is vacant and I know it is not theirs.

Generally, each property owner is responsible for their own proprerty, but in this case, I don't feel it is fair to make them pick up their neighbors trash. The big box is saying it isn't all theirs.

I can go out there and get a rough idea of whose trash it is, but I can't make them clean it up can I?

 

[The One]

Well....

Depending on how your enforcement mechanism works, you could:

1. Make observations of the trash blowing onto the vacant lot from the big box (trash bins?) with photo's and an attached notarized affidavit signed by an officer of the law, maybe accompanied by a littering ticket.
2. Take this evidence to you hearing officer, code board, judge or whatever and see what can be done. Maybe the jurisdiction cleans the property up, if the big box refuses to perform then turn around and slap a lien on the big box to cloud their title in the future

The best idea is to get the adjacent neighbor out there to witness the blowing trash, they can follow #1 above and privately sue the big box, but only after the jurisdiction sites them as the owner of the vacant land for the clearly marked big box trash cleanup

What a mess:-|

 

[Gedunker]

Was the bigbox required to install a fence along this pl? Should they have been, if they weren't? Can you hint that they might now be required to put up the $$attractive $$masonry $$wall if this matter persists? Hint, hint, hint;-) ;-) ;-)

They acknowledge that at least some of the trash is theirs -- here'd be a good opportunity to earn some "good will with the community".

 

[zman]

I don't know who can enforce it. Using a smaller example, I live in a neighborhood that is still under construction. I also live in a high wind area.

I tend to just bite the bullet and clean up the mess that blows INTO my yard rather than lobby the various builders within the neighborhood who do not know how to close the lid on their dumpsters. :-@

Of course, you could always have Big Box Mart/Depot/Emporium put up a chainlink fence around the property.

 

[The One]

I
Of course, you could always have Big Box Mart/Depot/Emporium put up a chainlink fence around the property.

A chain link fence could be worse than the trash floating around....depending on how nice the neighborhood is, and the level of finish required of the big box store.....I'd suggest 1000' of an 8 foot solid decorative masonry wall;-) :-o

 

[wahday]

I would like to see if anyone has a good solution to this problem. We just had a Walmart go in on what a year ago was operating farmland. The adjacent landowners are all 15 acre farms or larger and a local paper has done an excellent job documenting and collecting trash (mainly trash bags) that has blown into adjacent alfalfa fields and irrigation ditches. They can't claim its not theirs, because those #$@&! smiley faces are everywhere, grinning at you menacingly as they rattle in the breeze...

The local paper collected, along with the neighbors, some 200 plus trash bags in a one week period. This is also a high wind area and, given that the parking lot alone is over 10 acres (I kid you not), I don't see that walls of fences will hold much of this in - it just lifts up and blows right into the fields.

Who says these guys are sensitive to the environment?...

 

[CosmicMojo]

Do the receipts and bags have the store name on them? That should establish that they came from their store. Ask for a fence and more trash cans by the exits.

 

[noottamevas]

We have the same problem here. I don't think more trash cans will help since the problem is more than likely people taking their one item out of the bag when they get to their car and simply dropping the bag. These are the same people who leave their shopping cart in the middle of the lot. If they won't push their cart to the rack, they probably won't walk to a trashcan.

A fence would help, but not solve the problem. An empty plastic bag can easily fly 30 feet in the air on a windy day. The chain link fence would actually work better then the block wall as it would act like a net, allowing air to pass through and trash not. I would recomend razor wire on top, as that is the most attractive,

I have seen employees of the store walking the neighbors property picking up trash. I don't know who initiated it, but that seems to be the simplest solution.

 

[Planista]

We would probably look to our litter ordinance, which requires property owners to maintain their property free from litter, sock the owner of the vacant property with the fine of $100/day, and let them worry about suing the next door neighbor.

However, that does seem somewhat unfair, especially given the evidence against the big box (logos on bags, receipts, etc). You could try doing what our City Council considered recently: an ordinance that fines the person doing the littering as well as the person who provided the "litter," i.e. the person who produced the advertising.

The proposed ordinance language:

"No person or business shall advertise goods, wares, events, concerts, or merchandise by causing such advertising material to be thrown, deposited, or posted in violation of any of the provisions of this chapter. Any person or business that advertises goods, wares, events, concerts, or merchandise by causing such advertising material to be thrown, deposited, or posted in violation of any of the provisions of this chapter shall be guilty of violating this section along with the person so throwing, depositing, or posting the same.

There shall be a rebuttable presumption that any person or business advertised in any posting or the site of a concert or event shall be guilty of violating this section."

This applies directly to our litter ordinance. The target was leaflets advertising concerts. These leaflets are often posted illegally, or are the source of much litter Downtown. The goal was to hold the concert promoter and/or venue liable for the illegal posting or litter problem. The discussion led to liability for reciepts from fast food or retail stores, etc. and would they be liable as well, which resulted in the proposal being condemned to the indefinite pending list.

 

[plankton]

This probably doesn't apply to your situation but I'm going to share it anyway because if may foster some ideas on the subject.....

A few cities in Oregon (Ashland, is one) have imposed a local sales tax on certain businesses (fast food, mainly) to help pay for city work crews (contractors?) to periodically conduct off-site clean-ups for nuisances such as the ones you speak of. (Oregon has no statewide sales tax.) I imagine the City produced some findings to justify the imposition of the fee to certain applicable businesses. Discrimination lawsuits/arbitarary & capricious arguments could abound, I'm sure.

If your city/county uses impact fees/system development charges/etc. you probably already have the legal framework in place to impose a charge to offset the expected costs of off-site impacts (other than the usual ones -- traffic, etc.) associated with litter clean-up. Not sure if this is very helpful in an "after-the-fact" situation but I think it's something worth considering moving forward.

Yeesh. Reason #182 that I'm glad I live 50+ miles away from the closest Mega-Lo-Mart. :-c

Best of luck.

 

[Cardinal]

What do you do when the violator is the city itself? I once worked for a place (that will go nameless) where the street sweepings would be dumped in the center of a 60-acre flat piece of property with nothing to stop them from being picked up in the daily afternoon wind, and deposited on the property of neighboring companies that were already threatening to leave the city. Yeah, this city thinks it is the leader in the "best practices" category. Three months of battling got them to a point where they agreed to install a berm and fence. The berm - a bare pile of dirt and debris excavated from road and utility projects - is there. (Thats right, no plantings or erosion control.) A year later, still no fence. I wish it had been Wal-Mart, they are much more responsible and easier to work with.

Anyway, as others have suggested, this is a good opportunity for them to get good public relations. Suggest that they have someone clean up debris in the parking lot on a daily basis. Suggest that they start a campaign to encourage people not to litter in their lots. Suggest that they put some trach cans next to the cart racks. Suggest that they plant a line of evergreens along the property line to catch blowing debris. Suggest that they be the model for everyone else to emulate. Let them be the "good guy" who is taking responsibility for their problem and that of other people as well.

 

[RandomPlanner]

We have the same problem here. I don't think more trash cans will help since the problem is more than likely people taking their one item out of the bag when they get to their car and simply dropping the bag. These are the same people who leave their shopping cart in the middle of the lot. If they won't push their cart to the rack, they probably won't walk to a trashcan..

Agreed. A pipedream but maybe the store employees, if only one small item is purchased, could ask if the person wanted a bag or not. Not a big help, but in the right direction, I think (I try to carry a big enough purse on shopping days that I can fit several items in. Of course, when they've already put it in the bag and I tell them I don't need it, I've had the cashier moron throw the bag away instead, which makes me have to yell at them!!:-@ :-@ )

I have seen employees of the store walking the neighbors property picking up trash. I don't know who initiated it, but that seems to be the simplest solution.

LOVE this idea. What a great way to spend a sunny afternoon too when the employees have had enough of being in the store!
I would suggest this idea directly to the Mega-Store manager. And of course, I'd make sure to bring along your friendly newspaper reporter for that meeting. ;-)