Hostile and Abusive team names

[Richmond Jake]

This is the most asinine thing I've heard in a long time. "Hostile and abusive." How PC can we get? I guess we need to change the name of the Notre Dame "Fighting Irish" so we don't offend fighters and Irish, the San Francisco Giants and New York Giants so we don't offend people of stature (sorry, ZG, want to weight in, so to speak?)...I can see the Atlanta Braves renamed the Atlanta Turners. And the New York Yankees? Oh gawk, suggest a name, ZG.....Boston Red Sox? What about us that wear dark socks. Oakland Athletics? What if I'm not athletic? I'm offended. LOL

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8901144/

 

[mgk920]

This is the most asinine thing I've heard in a long time. "Hostile and abusive." How PC can we get? I guess we need to change the name of the Notre Dame "Fighting Irish" so we don't offend fighters and Irish, the San Francisco Giants and New York Giants so we don't offend people of stature (sorry, ZG, want to weight in, so to speak?)...I can see the Atlanta Braves renamed the Atlanta Turners. And the New York Yankees? Oh gawk, suggest a name, ZG.....Boston Red Sox? What about us that wear dark socks. Oakland Athletics? What if I'm not athletic? I'm offended. LOL

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8901144/

Heck, PETA went after the Green Bay Packers a few seasons ago. It was the best laugh that I had all year.

Seriously, though, I *WANT* someone to file a 'hostile and abusive' complaint with the NCAA regarding Notre Dame, just so that I can see the you-know-what hit the fan here.

Mike

 

[Zoning Goddess]

This is the most asinine thing I've heard in a long time. "Hostile and abusive." How PC can we get? I guess we need to change the name of the Notre Dame "Fighting Irish" so we don't offend fighters and Irish, the San Francisco Giants and New York Giants so we don't offend people of stature (sorry, ZG, want to weight in, so to speak?)...I can see the Atlanta Braves renamed the Atlanta Turners. And the New York Yankees? Oh gawk, suggest a name, ZG.....Boston Red Sox? What about us that wear dark socks. Oakland Athletics? What if I'm not athletic? I'm offended. LOL

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8901144/

I believe that Gov Bush of FL ( in one of his more lucid moments) said "How PC can we be? These people (NCAA) need to get out more often".

 

[Richmond Jake]

Heck, PETA went after the Green Bay Packers a few seasons ago. It was the best laugh that I had all year. ....

I also heard the gay community was going after the Green Bay Packers and the St. Louis Rams for offensive names.. But I could be wrong.

 

[JNA]

Don't forget the effort to re-name the New Jersey Devils.

 

[Rumpy Tunanator]

I better not reply, or they might kill the thread like this one http://www.cyburbia.org/forums/showthread.php?t=18983&page=3

 

[H]

On behalf of my current univ., GO NOLES! and go away NCAA. :-D

If the Seminole Nation doesnt have a problem, then why should the NCAA?

 

[illinoisplanner]

I come from a town that had its high school mascot changed from "Redskins" and from a state where the "Fighting Illini" mascot will not be allowed during postseason...I know exactly where you are coming from. :-@ The Native Americans threatening to sue us?!?! Ha! Most of these mascots are in honor of the Native Americans...people that are strong fighters worth competing in the name of. And they have the nerve to tell us that we are being disrespectful?!? Makes me want to start war with them again. :-@ :-@

 

[H]

And they have the nerve to tell us that we are being disrespectful?!? Makes me want to start war with them again. :-@ :-@

The NCAA or the Native Americans? I assume/hope the NCAA, but your post is a little confusing.

Also, let me clarify that in the previous post when I said the 'Seminole Nation' doesnt have a problem, I mean the 'actual indian tribe' supports us. That is not a code word for FSU fans or anything. We respect the Seminole Nation and work diligently to cooperate with them for mutual support and respect.

 

[illinoisplanner]

The NCAA or the Native Americans? I assume/hope the NCAA, but your post is a little confusing.

Also, let me clarify that in the previous post when I said the 'Seminole Nation' doesnt have a problem, I mean the 'actual indian tribe' supports us. That is not a code word for FSU fans or anything. We respect the Seminole Nation and work diligently to cooperate with them for mutual support and respect.

Well, with my high school (the one I care about most), the Native American Bar Association threatened to sue the school district.

 

[H]

Well, with my high school (the one I care about most), the Native American Bar Association threatened to sue the school district.

Interesting. So what is the new mascot?

 

[illinoisplanner]

Interesting. So what is the new mascot?

The students voted for "Red Raiders" as the name, of course thinking it to be the thing most remotely similar to "Redskins."

The students had no say in picking the logo though. The school district picked a stupid horse with the initals of the school next to it. How they came up with a corellation between "Red Raiders" and "horses" I do not know. They could've at least done a pirate or something. It is beyond idiotic..yeah, I went to a high school that had a stupid horse for a mascot. :-{ Many students though, especially me, still cheered "Redskins" though. They can't take away my freedom of speech.

 

[Planit]

This is one of a few times I hope FSU wins. As a Gator fan, I'm afraid if the NCAA gets this stupid ruling enforced, then they'll go after endangered animal mascot nicknames next!

 

[Raven]

Sometimes a school takes this action willingly. How many of you are Eastern Michigan University Hurons and how many of you are EMU Eagles? My Mom is a Huron and I'm an Eagle.

 

[SW MI Planner]

Sometimes a school takes this action willingly. How many of you are Eastern Michigan University Hurons and how many of you are EMU Eagles? My Mom is a Huron and I'm an Eagle.

I'm an Eagle.

Marshall, MI just changed their mascot after a long drawn out controversy. They were the Redskins and now they are the Redhawks.

In how many of these cases were the actual people really offended? At Eastern, did the Hurons object to the use of their name, that had been used for a LONG time?

I am probably the most PC person you will meet, but if they don't get offended by it, neither should anyone else.

 

[H]

Well, what about changing the mascot becuase it is not abusive and hostile enough? Remember when U Hawaii were the Rainbows? Now they are the Rainbow Warriors. They have my respect.

 

[michaelskis]

Sometimes a school takes this action willingly. How many of you are Eastern Michigan University Hurons and how many of you are EMU Eagles? My Mom is a Huron and I'm an Eagle.

What about the Emu bird? Why did they go with the Eagle?

Many of the schools in the UP have Native American names such as the Redmen, Indian’s, Braves, and Eskimos. There have been discussions that they should change the names every since I can remember, but nothing comes up of it.

But then again the UP also has the “Nimrods”

 

[NHPlanner]

I better not reply, or they might kill the thread like this one http://www.cyburbia.org/forums/showthread.php?t=18983&page=3

Moderator note:

Now that's just not true Rumpy. The other thread was outside the FAC, and seriously off-topic. We're only enforcing the Board rules when we need to....and it was needed in the other thread.

As always, if you disagree with how a mod is treating you, let Dan know.

 

[Trail Nazi]

The NCAA or the Native Americans? I assume/hope the NCAA, but your post is a little confusing.

Also, let me clarify that in the previous post when I said the 'Seminole Nation' doesnt have a problem, I mean the 'actual indian tribe' supports us. That is not a code word for FSU fans or anything. We respect the Seminole Nation and work diligently to cooperate with them for mutual support and respect.

I am totally with you. When I was at FSU, they wanted to give me a scholarship from the Seminole/Micasuki (alt. sp. Miccosukee) Indians because I am enough Native American (even though I look like the poster child for Swiss Miss) but I did not take it since I was already using other scholarships. FSU is VERY, VERY proud of its relationship with the Seminoles of Florida and are very close. The NCAA needs to take a hike. Who do they think they are telling us what is PC or not. :-@ :-@

 

[Gedunker]

True story: my high school team nickname was/is the Canucks
The logo was a bearded, beanie-capped, plaid shirt-wearing lumberjack with crossed axes behind his head. No stereo-typing there, now eh?

Every place we played, the refrain was "What's a Canuck?"

 

[mendelman]

The students voted for "Red Raiders"...

Well...you better watch out for NAP (National Association of Pirates), because they are very litigious.;-)

 

[JNA]

The full list from the ncaa:
http://www2.ncaa.org/media_and_events/press_room/2005/august/20050805_exec_comm_rls.html

Eighteen colleges and universities continue to use Native American imagery or references and are subject to the new policy:

Alcorn State University (Braves)
Central Michigan University (Chippewas)
Catawba College (Indians)
Florida State University (Seminoles)
Midwestern State University (Indians)
University of Utah (Utes)
Indiana University-Pennsylvania (Indians)
Carthage College (Redmen)
Bradley University (Braves)
Arkansas State University (Indians)
Chowan College (Braves)
University of Illinois-Champaign (Illini)
University of Louisiana-Monroe (Indians)
McMurry University (Indians)
Mississippi College (Choctaws)
Newberry College (Indians)
University of North Dakota (Fighting Sioux)
Southeastern Oklahoma State University (Savages)

Fourteen schools have removed (caved-in) all references to Native American culture or were deemed not to have references to Native American culture as part of their athletics programs: California State-Stanislaus University; Lycoming College; Winona State University; Hawaii-Manoa University; Eastern Connecticut State University; East Stroudsburg University; Husson College; Merrimack College; Southeast Missouri State University; State University of West Georgia; Stonehill College; San Diego State University; Wisconsin Lutheran College; and the University of North Carolina-Pembroke.

 

[Maister]

Anybody remember the 'fighting Whities' from a few years back?

 

[pete-rock]

When it comes to team nicknames, I think the NCAA should consider a compromise along these lines -- tell me what you think.

Nicknames that are derived from the actual names of Native American tribes or ethnic groups (like Illini, Seminoles, Utes, Chippewas, Fighting Sioux, even Fighting Irish) should be allowed. Sure they might not be exactly PC to be used by people not from those groups, but these names were intended to honor people. There are way worse offenses.

Nicknames that are not derived from names for any Native American tribes or ethnic groups, but are derogatory names for them (like Redskins, Redmen, Indians, Savages, or Pekin (IL) High School's Pekin Chinks) should not be allowed. The affected groups never used those names to describe themselves.

Nicknames that might have been intended originally to describe the actions of Native American tribes or ethnic groups (like Braves, Warriors, Raiders) ought to be under the descretion of the school, although I have no problem with them. My feeling is everyone can be brave, a warrior or a raider.

 

[cololi]

There is absolutely no reason why the Utes should be on that list. The school has the blessing of the Ute tribe. The school has a history of working with the tribe to make sure they use the name in a manner that is approved by the tribe. What a joke. Hopefully the U will join FSU in their battle.

 

[mgk920]

The full list from the ncaa:
http://www2.ncaa.org/media_and_events/press_room/2005/august/20050805_exec_comm_rls.html

Eighteen colleges and universities continue to use Native American imagery or references and are subject to the new policy:

Alcorn State University (Braves)
Central Michigan University (Chippewas)
Catawba College (Indians)
Florida State University (Seminoles)
Midwestern State University (Indians)
University of Utah (Utes)
Indiana University-Pennsylvania (Indians)
Carthage College (Redmen)
Bradley University (Braves)
Arkansas State University (Indians)
Chowan College (Braves)
University of Illinois-Champaign (Illini)
University of Louisiana-Monroe (Indians)
McMurry University (Indians)
Mississippi College (Choctaws)
Newberry College (Indians)
University of North Dakota (Fighting Sioux)
Southeastern Oklahoma State University (Savages)

Fourteen schools have removed (caved-in) all references to Native American culture or were deemed not to have references to Native American culture as part of their athletics programs: California State-Stanislaus University; Lycoming College; Winona State University; Hawaii-Manoa University; Eastern Connecticut State University; East Stroudsburg University; Husson College; Merrimack College; Southeast Missouri State University; State University of West Georgia; Stonehill College; San Diego State University; Wisconsin Lutheran College; and the University of North Carolina-Pembroke.

Note that the University of Hawaii is NOT on this list. They changed their name to the 'Warriors' a few years ago, this to reflect the strong Polynesian culture in that area (are you guys listening over at Marquette??? :-@ )

Mike

 

[pete-rock]

Note that the University of Hawaii is NOT on this list. They changed their name to the 'Warriors' a few years ago, this to reflect the strong Polynesian culture in that area (are you guys listening over at Marquette??? :-@ )

Mike

Yes, but aren't they really the "Rainbow Warriors"? Could they withstand a legal challenge from the gay and lesbian community?

 

[nuovorecord]

Anybody remember the 'fighting Whities' from a few years back?

You beat me to it. I think one of these colleges needs to change their nickname to "White Guys", just to see the reaction. :-D

 

[Gedunker]

My undergrad alma mater is on the list -- East Stroudsburg -- as non-offensive. Something must have changed because when I was there the Warriors used a native american profile, replete with three forward-leaning feathers as the logo. I think I still have a hat with that logo...

So, is Indiana now banned from all post-season tournies? To many people, Hoosier is a derogatory term... Especially in Missouri.:-o

 

[mgk920]

My undergrad alma mater is on the list -- East Stroudsburg -- as non-offensive. Something must have changed because when I was there the Warriors used a native american profile, replete with three forward-leaning feathers as the logo. I think I still have a hat with that logo...

So, is Indiana now banned from all post-season tournies? To many people, Hoosier is a derogatory term... Especially in Missouri.:-o

Ditto Illinois, Ut(e)ah, etc

What next, 'religiously' offensive names??? There are religions that consider non-members to be 'offensive'.

Mike

 

[ssnyderjr]

Sometimes a school takes this action willingly. How many of you are Eastern Michigan University Hurons and how many of you are EMU Eagles? My Mom is a Huron and I'm an Eagle.

I thought they were the EMU Emu's for a while, at least I remember an article in the Free Press about that when I was in high school.

 

[the north omaha star]

When it comes to team nicknames, I think the NCAA should consider a compromise along these lines -- tell me what you think.

Nicknames that are derived from the actual names of Native American tribes or ethnic groups (like Illini, Seminoles, Utes, Chippewas, Fighting Sioux, even Fighting Irish) should be allowed. Sure they might not be exactly PC to be used by people not from those groups, but these names were intended to honor people. There are way worse offenses.

Nicknames that are not derived from names for any Native American tribes or ethnic groups, but are derogatory names for them (like Redskins, Redmen, Indians, Savages, or Pekin (IL) High School's Pekin Chinks) should not be allowed. The affected groups never used those names to describe themselves.

Nicknames that might have been intended originally to describe the actions of Native American tribes or ethnic groups (like Braves, Warriors, Raiders) ought to be under the descretion of the school, although I have no problem with them. My feeling is everyone can be brave, a warrior or a raider.

The names of actual tribes are OK with me. I think the white guy dressed as a Native American thowing a burning spear at the beginning of the FSU football games is a over the top.

 

[NDPlanner26]

I am from North Dakota and attended the University of North Dakota who's mascot is the "Fighting Sioux", which has been very well publicized, and this just pisses me of. The Native Americans I met while attending school there like the nickname and the ones that were against it were from other parts of the country, from different bands of indians, and from totally different mind sets.

The people for whom they are named for, the Native Americans from the midwest, take it as it was meant, an HONOR.

The U just built a new hockey arena that has over 2000 Fighting Sioux logos in it which would need to be covered up during any NCAA post season games under the new rules, but it is not owned by the university but by private enterprise, so I can see a legal battle on the horizon.

PC sucks, let's just say what's on our mind. Thats the way you can tell who a person really is anyway.

 

[H]

I think the white guy dressed as a Native American thowing a burning spear at the beginning of the FSU football games is a over the top.

But the real Seminoles dont, so who are you or the NCAA to tell people that they should be offended?

*for the record, I am affiliated w/ FSU but have never considered myself a 'Nole sports 'fan'; however, I am a fan of the students and the school as a whole and am proud of how FSU is handling this matter.

**Also, for the record, Mrs H (my wife) is a pretty good chuck Native American (Cherokee). She doesn't even celebrate Thanksgiving (we eat, we just call it Feast Day, whatever, it makes her happy), yet she has no problem with the use of Indian mascots. But since you do, I hope you don't celebrate Thanksgiving either, we should probably ban that as a nation since it is not PC come to think of it… how does that sound? Oh, and I will also tell her she needs to be offended by the "white guy with a spear"…. give me a break…

 

[geogplanner]

The whole mascot PC thing is out of control. I have never once found offense with mascots from contemporary sports teams. But I am not surprised that the NCAA has taken this route. Next, fat monks will protest the Padres.

Well...I just have one word of warning for the Danish...keep your paws off of my mascot!!

GO GREAT DANES!

 

[Planderella]

But the real Seminoles dont, so who are you or the NCAA to tell people that they should be offended?

*for the record, I am affiliated w/ FSU but have never considered myself a ‘Nole sports 'fan'; however, I am a fan of the students and the school as a whole and am proud of how FSU is handling this matter.

**Also, for the record, Mrs H (my wife) is a pretty good chuck Native American (Cherokee). She doesn’t even celebrate Thanksgiving (we eat, we just call it Feast Day, whatever, it makes her happy), yet she has no problem with the use of Indian mascots. But since you do, I hope you don’t celebrate Thanksgiving either, we should probably ban that as a nation since it is not PC come to think of it… how does that sound? Oh, and I will also tell her she needs to be offended by the “white guy with a spear”…. give me a break…

He didn't say it was offensive. He said it's over the top. There's a difference.

I'm curious as to why a lot of these schools chose these particular names in the first place.

 

[H]

He didn't say it was offensive. He said it's over the top. There's a difference.

Okay then, over the top how? ... Not as 'offensive'? Then how? Why else would it be over the top? Someone please explain; I am obviously lost in this logic.

Is it ‘over the top’ as in too scary? :-c

or too cool? :h:

or too PC? :a:

I am just not sure… I thought the issue here was 'hostile and abusive' mascots that offened people... like as in 'native people'... which is why the Fighting Irish is not 'hostile and abusive'.... I obviously dont get this PC crap.... "me confused"

 

[Suburb Repairman]

I'm waiting for PETA to go after the use of animals for mascots as insulting a disrespectful to nature.

Here's my thought: universities using tribe names may continue using them with the blessing of the appropriate Nation, i.e. Utah gets permission from the Utes and Florida State gets permission from the Seminoles. Use of insulting names like savages or redskins is no longer permitted.

Mascot names like Seminoles, Irish, etc are intended to celebrate a heritage or culture. Why is the NCAA wasting their time on this??? :-@

 

[Planderella]

Okay then, over the top how? ... Not as 'offensive'? Then how? Why else would it be over the top? Someone please explain; I am obviously lost in this logic.

Is it ‘over the top’ as in too scary? :-c

or too cool? :h:

or too PC? :a:

I am just not sure… I thought the issue here was hostile and abusive mascots that offened people... "me confused" :-$

[OT]I define "over the top" as unecessary. And since I lived in Tallahassee for a couple of years and attended the other university that the local media loved to forget existed (except for whenever something bad happened), I have a deep hatred for everything that's FSU. Sorry FSU alums. [/OT]

 

[Gedunker]

I'm waiting for PETA to go after the use of animals for mascots as insulting a disrespectful to nature.

Too late 'burb fixer: PETA sent a letter to the NCAA stating that "Gamecocks" is offensive because the sport is a violent bloodsport and is illegal in So. Carolina, according to USAToday 8/11/05.

Great Danes! How amusing to think my kinfolk could be offended by a breed of dogs. LOL.

Just curious if there are no members of the Seminole Nation that attended Miami...turns, runs

 

[spokanite]

What took the NCAA so long?

Most of these mascots are in honor of the Native Americans...people that are strong fighters worth competing in the name of

Why back in the 70's my university changed its mascot from the 'Savages' to the Eagles. And last year the university also ponied up $400,000 to remove the old mascot (a cartooned Native American with huge teeth wielding a hatchet) from thousands of bricks lining a walkway towards the athletic facility. In this case, I think it was an appropriate move to change the mascot.

In my city our baseball team is the 'Indians' and the hockey team is the 'Chiefs'. The new soccer team is the 'Shadow'. I guess naming your sports teams after the local tribe is no longer trendy.

 

[Planit]

Elon College (North Carolina) changed their name a few years back from the Fighting Christians to the Pheonix. Now I know there's a story there about the christian conservatives but I can't remember the details. I think it had something to do with christianity and love/compassion, not fighting.

Didn't St. Johns Univ go from the Redmen to the Red Storm?

 

[zman]

Anybody remember the 'fighting Whities' from a few years back?

That happened to occur at my University, while I was there.

No one cared and the Fighting Whites stunk. ;-)

 

[H]

[OT]I define "over the top" as unecessary. And since I lived in Tallahassee for a couple of years and attended the other university that the local media loved to forget existed (except for whenever something bad happened), I have a deep hatred for everything that's FSU. Sorry FSU alums. [/OT]

Understand your hatred, but if 'over the top' college spirit is defined as unecessary then that makes just about all college spirit 'over the top'. Do the gators need to growl? Do the rattlers need to rattle? I think the answer is yes. yes they do. Just like the 'noles need to chop. It all makes it fun and enjoyable. :-D

 

[ricepg]

Here's my thought: universities using tribe names may continue using them with the blessing of the appropriate Nation, i.e. Utah gets permission from the Utes and Florida State gets permission from the Seminoles. Use of insulting names like savages or redskins is no longer permitted.

I agree. First of all the new rule is a joke. From what I understand it applys to all sports except football. Also, it only applies in the post-season. If these names are so offensive why have such restrictions? But I do think that this is a somewhat legitimate issue.

If the groups/nations/tribes are OK with it I see no problem (the Seminole Nation for example). Also if the name is related to the state (Illiani, Utes, etc) OK. But I do take exception with the idea that we give schools these nicknames because we want to honor them. Since when did we start wanting to honor native american tribes? Who are we honoring by using the name Redskins? I know most of the names are benign but some are clearly not honorable. (That being said I have always liked the Washington Redskins and their uniforms:-$) Most people who say that this is stupid say that they are not offended - neither am I - but who am I to say that some are not (I am not a Native-American). If there is no offence to the name have at it.

As for PETA and animal mascots; you really don't think that that is a legitamite comparison do you - animals and People? Maybe to some PETA members, but that is apples and oranges. (BTW PETA layed off of the Univ of SC when they were made aware that the name Gamecock was inspired by a Revolutionary war officer not ****-fighting despite the logo). I've heard someone bring up a similar comparison in regards to religion, such as Wake Forest Demon-Deacons, but even this is different because the school was founded by, and presumably named by the church.

BTW, is the mascot for the Cleveland Indians offensive? I always thought that it looked like Tiger Woods.

 

[prana]

Somebody mentioned Hawaii as having a non-threatening name...what about the Scottsdale Community College Artichokes!?!?! No kidding.
Here is the story: Why the Artichoke

And on to the NCAA, this is complete BS!! If the Seminole Nation or the Ute Tribe isn't offended, then the NCAA will be offended for them. What a bunch of crap! The Fighting Irish and Ragin' Cajuns better start preparing their defense of their names as well. :-{

 

[ijustkrushalot]

I've thought about starting this thread... but I figured I would let someone do it

I am a die-hard Fighting Illini fan, and a student at U of I...

There are two debates going on at Illinois:

The first one is the nickname itself, the Board of Trustees has said repeatedly that "Fighting Illini" is the schools nickname, and it will not change.

The second is "Chief Illiniwek", a "symbol" of the athletic teams. (Most people are careful not to call him a mascot, because he does not roam the sidelines during the game like most mascots, and there is a desire to distance ourselves from schools like Wisconsin, MSU, etc, that have goofy mascots, even though it is basically semantics)...

Personally, i think we should probably just quit doing the halftime show, (even though the costume was a gift from a Native American tribe back in the 80's.. ) and wipe all visual references to NA culture from our uniforms and merchandise.

Illinois has not had the "chief" logo on uniforms for a number of years, instead using a Block I logo


---
What does the NCAA ruling mean?

It does NOT mean we have to change our nickname, or stop having the Chief,

It means that we cannot reference NA culture during NCAA tournaments, and we cannot host NCAA tournament events as long as we have a native american mascot.

this is potentially very damaging to our athletic program, because we routinely host Volleyball, Soccer, and Tennis matches in the early rounds of the NCAA tournament.
----

BTW, I am actually kinda surprised...

with the liberal leanings of most of the posters here, i am kinda astonished that almost nobody has wholeheartedly agreed with this ruling.

What is curious about this whole thing is the following:

1.) How is what we (Illinois) do any different than say, the Michigan State Spartans or the USC Trojans. Both schools reference a culture that is not indicitive of their own, and Illinois doesn't have some stupid foam mascot dancing around.

2.) Why is NCAASports.com still selling Illinois merchandise, including "Chief" logo merchandise???

3.) Why is San Diego State (Aztecs) not on this list? their website references Montezuma and Aztec culture frequently on their "Traditions" page... is it ok to be "hurtful" to Mexican Indians?

 

[the north omaha star]

[OT]I define "over the top" as unecessary. And since I lived in Tallahassee for a couple of years and attended the other university that the local media loved to forget existed (except for whenever something bad happened), I have a deep hatred for everything that's FSU. Sorry FSU alums. [/OT]

You hit the nail on the head! My definition of 'over the top' is also unnecessary.

 

[H]

You hit the nail on the head! My definition of 'over the top' is also unnecessary.

Well good. I am glad it is not offensive. I obviously had my understanding of PC mixed up. All this time I thought PC was about being offensive. I guess I was wrong as it only means 'over the top' and unnecessary (which may arbitrarily be applied to almost any but the most generic 'golf clap' school spirits). So, as it is deemed NOT offensive and since others have posted their mascots:

Go Noles! I will take 'over the top' opposed to 'below the bottom' any day. :-D

 

[Bear Up North]

The other day a Detroit radio station interviewed some folks from Central Michigan University.....home of The Chippewas. They indicated that this ruling has no support from native Americans in and around that middle-of-Michigan school.

I always thought that their nickname......"Chips"......was laughable. Everytime I heard it I would think of the "cow chip" pitching contests that are popular at state fairs, etc. :-c

I have to admit that my "perception" of Florida State is such that I would re-name them "Jailbirds". ;-) ;-) And here in NW Ohio, we have the Toledo Rockets. For years the mascot that walked the sidelines was this hideous looking rocket-costumed person. Everybody I knew refered to the mascot as a vibrator. :-D

The choices should be up to each school.....period.

Bear