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Harry Potter, source of all evil

M

Michele Zone

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Pope disapproves of Harry Potter, letters suggest

I have seen this debate on homeschooling lists: gifted homeschoolers wrestle with finding materials that will interest the kids and Harry Potter pretty universally does (my 15 year old can quote entire paragraphs verbatim) but you also have a lot of folks who homeschool because they are fundamentalist Christians or whatever and the child just happens to also be bright, so they wind up on gifted lists too. But their values and motives are very different from those folks (like me) who are homeschooling due to the fact that school just wasn't a good fit for their child. Those folks who homeschool for religious reasons inevitably see the Harry Potter books as "the work of the devil", etc.

I once saw JK Rowling address these accusations with a statement along the lines of "No child has ever come up to me and told me they converted to Satanism because of my books". Can anyone explain to me where folks get this idea that Harry Potter is evil, demonic, etc? I honestly find that completely baffling.
 
Wow! :-c Hmmm I don’t agree with him. The last pope said that it was a great series and is full of Catholic ideas. I think that the writer is Catholic too. I could be wrong with that though.
 
I don't know why but witchery and magic might have something to do with the disapproval of christian fundies to Harry Potter..... :p

Well since christian fundies also find that high school biology textbooks are evil and demonic, I think that it just means they're dumb.:)
 
I wish the Pope would spend more time worrying about the real problems in the Church (I think we all know what I'm talking about), not some children's fantasy book.

This crap is $%&*ing rediculous. Magic is a staple of children's fantasy books. Hell, Cinderella features a fairy godmother that transforms mice into majestic clydesdales---will someone tell me how that is any different from a little girl waving a magic wand to fix Harry's glasses?!? Maybe we should ban Cinderella right along with Harry. And while we're at it, let's do away with the Wizard of Oz---we can't have little kids clicking their shoes together hoping to magically be transported to a fairy tale land or listening to people beg a magical wizard for advice... I could seriously rant on this subject for hours... :-@ :-@ :-@
 
SkeLeton said:
I don't know why but witchery and magic might have something to do with the disapproval of christian fundies to Harry Potter..... :p

Well since christian fundies also find that high school biology textbooks are evil and demonic, I think that it just means they're dumb.:)
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lol. I am trying hard to not go the route of "They are just too stupid to get it!", sigh.:a:

For some odd reason, it makes me think of the movie...uh...not "Dirty Dancing". Some other movie, where the town won't let the high school hold a dance because it is the devil's work, etc. And the kid goes to the preacher daddy of the girl he wants to take to the dance and quotes all the passages from the bible which refer to things like "Dancing to celebrate the glory of the lord". And then they get to have their dance.

Michael, the article closes with a suggestion that THIS book is spurious. I have no idea if the pope is really "against" Harry Potter. But I know this argument/accusation has been raging on for a while and is nothing new.
 
Michele Zone said:
For some odd reason, it makes me think of the movie...uh...not "Dirty Dancing". Some other movie, where the town won't let the high school hold a dance because it is the devil's work, etc. And the kid goes to the preacher daddy of the girl he wants to take to the dance and quotes all the passages from the bible which refer to things like "Dancing to celebrate the glory of the lord". And then they get to have their dance.
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The movie is Footloose.
 
Planderella said:
The movie is Footloose.
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Yes, that's the one. Thank you.:)


EDIT: This topic also makes me think of a scene from the movie "The Pacifier" (which I have only seen bits and pieces of). They find a Nazi armband in the kid's locker and he has died his hair blonde. They are harrassing him and sure he has joined some skinheads. He sneaks out of his window and "the pacifier" follows him. He and a group of boys meet in an alley and go into a run down building. A man announces "Good, all my Nazis are here. We can begin."

The punch line: They are doing a play of "The Sound of Music". He is playing a Nazi in this play.:)

People can be so closed-minded and judgmental.:-{
 
The Opus Dei wingnuts have been bustin' Harry Potter's balls for years. And yeah, the Vatican has consistantly refused to take that position. I don't agree with Pope Benedict's compaints now (In fact I agree with little of what he says, and dislike him even more than the last Pope :-c ) but I might offer a possible rationale for it.

The church is reeling over how badly it handled the DaVinci Code. At first, the perspective was that people would understand it as being fiction but that it was getting people interested in religion, and that's a good thing. The problem is that very many people ended up believing it, and now the Church has a huge PR mess on its hands (I've heard reports of people showing up at a church in France and demanding to see the secret passageway described in the book, for instance). By the time the Church finally condemned the book, it was fighting an impossible rear-guard action.

So anyway, I can see the church taking the position that any fiction that could be read as being religious is dangerous. In the case of Harry Potter, I'm sure they're also assuming that children might become very confused (ie: unable to understand the difference between the "make believe" rituals in the book and the "real" rituals of the mass).

There is ample evidence that won't happen, including the Narnia Chronicals, Lord of the Rings, and Star Wars. Magic has been a foundation of children's literature since Alice in Wonderland, and kids always seem to know the difference.

I think the problem with the DaVinci Code is that it is written to sound like historical fact, and it's a conspiracy and adults love conspiracies (witness BKM). I don't think that it's a reason for the Church to start attacking Children's books.
 
Meh, I couldn't care less if it is liked or disliked by the Pope. It doesn't change the fact that its an uninspired read all around.
 
abrowne said:
Meh, I couldn't care less if it is liked or disliked by the Pope. It doesn't change the fact that its an uninspired read all around.
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For that matter, I've been utterly unable to get beyond the first few pages of Da Vinci Code :-|
 
Whether it matter sor not, apparently the letter the Pope wrote to a friend was a few years back.

But that doesn't matter. I am a good Catholic. I have read all the books. My 7 years old daughter has read all 5 and we have just ordered the six to be delivered next week.

The Church should keep quiet on this. Its just another issue they are on the wrong side of.

I mean a generation of kids have been inspired by the Harry Potter books. Its great fantasy. Its themes of good and evil, with Harry and the protagonist, ring true to gradeschoolers.

Fine, let the fundamentalists sceam, but when my Church (often seen as a little moderate comparatively) is rumbling that its bad for kids, they are way off the mark.
 
gkmo62u said:
I mean a generation of kids have been inspired by the Harry Potter books. Its great fantasy. Its themes of good and evil, with Harry and the protagonist, ring true to gradeschoolers.
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Harry Potter almost single-handedly got kids reading novels again! It seemed like kids actually reading was giving way to the PS2, etc, before that first book came out.
 
I have only read the first book, I really liked it. I have let the boys watch the 3 movies and they really love them. I will be buying Jacob copies of all of the books for his birthday this year. I have enjoyed the series and have no problem with my children watching or reading it.
However, I woke up this morning to the news talking about a "Harry Potter" party/book release going on in the Central West End tonight, then got in the car and heeard it on the radio and blah, blah, blah...seems that there is more important things to be reporting than constant advertisments for this book.
 
Huh?

I would have thought the pope would be intimately familiar with FICTION, I mean he is the keeper of the most recent Bible right:-c :-o :6: OH SNAP!! The One will be visiting that fiery place now for sure;) Its a kids book, get real.....if it were up to the church, the only books would be the Bible and books written about what the bible says.:-{ :-@ :-c :-|







*Not trolling here, just trying to get peoples blood going this morning:-| :cool:
 
The One said:
just trying to get peoples blood going this morning
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Well, if you're going to troll at least get your facts straight.

The Catholic Church keeps but one of many versions of the bible, and that version has been unchanged for a very long time and is secondary to the true “product” of the Vatican, which is the Catechism. Talking about the Bible like that is like talking about the Bible as it relates to Judaism and pretending that the Talmud doesn’t even exist.
 
Hating the Harry Potter books because they're supposed to be Satanic is juvenille and out of touch. Not liking them because they're kiddie books that have been blown out of proportion by too many easily-entertained adults, well, that's a different matter altogether.

Before you jump to the defense of poor Harry, know that I'm going to a book release party tonight with my wife (who's apparently easily-entertained!) that the local book store owner put together. It's taking up the entire downtown, and some side streets are being closed to accomodate it. Yes, I'll probably dress up, although I'll end up looking more like a Jedi lost in a Witch school field trip.

As for the DaVinci code, that was a very entertaining read with about one-third fact, one-third guess, and one-third plausible sounding made up crap. The movie, starring Tom Hanks, will most likely suck.
 
Maister said:
I could comment at length on this phenomenon, but it's probably better you get it from the horse's mouth first:
http://www.exposingsatanism.org/harrypotter.htm
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"The whole purpose of these books is to desensitize readers and introduce them to the occult."
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I can't tell you how much this makes me laugh. I have read the books about 3 times and have not felt the least bit interested in the occult. My beliefs are intact, as much as my normal self allows them to be. Although I might skip church this Sunday just to read the sixth book... :a: :-D (maybe that is the desensitization talking??? :) )
 
Maister said:
I could comment at length on this phenomenon, but it's probably better you get it from the horse's mouth first:
http://www.exposingsatanism.org/harrypotter.htm
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PLEEEASE tell me that site is a SPOOF and NOT serious.:-c



And let's please NOT turn this thread into Catholic bashing. I do not approve. It is mere coincidence that the article I saw which prompted me to start the discussion references the Catholic church. Frankly, I figured this would be a relatively light-hearted discussion. I have difficulty imagining that too many Cyburbians really think Harry Potter is some wicked conspiracy to convert children to satanism (I think we are much more concerned about conversions to Stan-ism). Sheesh.
 
Ass. Planner said:
I can't tell you how much this makes me laugh. I have read the books about 3 times and have not felt the least bit interested in the occult. My beliefs are intact, as much as my normal self allows them to be. Although I might skip church this Sunday just to read the sixth book... :a: :-D (maybe that is the desensitization talking??? :) )
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Speak for yourself... I know as soon as a finished the book I started bowing and worshiping before a Ouija (sp?) board, ran out a bought a copy of the the satanic verses, began mixing potions under my desk at work and casting spells on City Council members... :cool: :p

OK, there may be a little truth to that last one...:-c
 
My $ .02

When I was a mid teen, my friend’s mom wouldn’t let him play the Final Fantasy games on Nintendo. She believed that the magic done in the game was demonic. She also prevented him from playing D&D with us because of the stories she heard when she was younger about evil and people killing themselves and others. In my assessment of her views, she is ignorant.

I think a lot of it stems from the Bible saying (Paraphrasing) that practicing sorcery is wrong. I don’t practice sorcery, but I don’t see anything wrong with “magic” being used in the entertainment industry as far as movies, games, books are concerned.
Michele Zone said:
And the kid goes to the preacher daddy of the girl he wants to take to the dance and quotes all the passages from the bible which refer to things like "Dancing to celebrate the glory of the lord". And then they get to have their dance.
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After all, didn't Jesus heal the sick, dead, wounded, and walk on water. Those are magical/mystical/miracles in my book. Sorry, i don't have my Bible near by to quote specific passages.
 
Dragon said:
My $ .02

When I was a mid teen, my friend’s mom wouldn’t let him play the Final Fantasy games on Nintendo. She believed that the magic done in the game was demonic. She also prevented him from playing D&D with us because of the stories she heard when she was younger about evil and people killing themselves and others. In my assessment of her views, she is ignorant.

I think a lot of it stems from the Bible saying (Paraphrasing) that practicing sorcery is wrong. I don’t practice sorcery, but I don’t see anything wrong with “magic” being used in the entertainment industry as far as movies, games, books are concerned.

After all, didn't Jesus heal the sick, dead, wounded, and walk on water. Those are magical/mystical/miracles in my book. Sorry, i don't have my Bible near by to quote specific passages.
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As a former D&D/RPG-er, person who has a history of close association with biblical scholars, and...uh...human being -- I mostly agree but...with some reservations I can't quite say...for fear of being burned at the stake as a witch.:p
 
i've been reading and loving these books for years now, but having now read the latest book i'd really like JKRowling to draw the line between christianity and wizardary a little clearer. one scene where Harry hears somehting singing "God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen" - i just feel that she should either address how religion of any sort fits into this world, or leave god/christianity out of it entirely.
 
I'm a Christian and I see no issues with Harry Potter. I don't really care about the books, couldn't be bothered, but I see no problem with kids reading them. Aren't kids allowed to have imagination and fantacy? And it gets them away from computers and television.
 
During Saturday afternoon I ventured to a Chapters in Vancouver and noticed that Margaret Atwood's Oryx and Crake (hardcover) was on for $9.99, so I bought it. The clerk said he was "happy to see something other than Harry Potter cross the counter."
 
abrowne said:
During Saturday afternoon I ventured to a Chapters in Vancouver and noticed that Margaret Atwood's Oryx and Crake (hardcover) was on for $9.99, so I bought it. The clerk said he was "happy to see something other than Harry Potter cross the counter."
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I haven't read them yet but I have two e-mails from my sister about the Harry Potter party she took her daughter to the other night and the book itself. My husband called me yesterday to get our new address so he could mail the latest HP book to our sons.:p
 
I'm about 200 pages into the new one and it's great. SC is probably way ahead of me...
They are the only books my son is interested in reading.
 
Zoning Goddess said:
They are the only books my son is interested in reading.
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This is precisely why I scoff when people say "well, at least it gets kids to read." Sure - they read HP, but that doesn't mean they do any reading in the 8 months (or however long) in between.

But the young'ins are learning something far more valuable - how to behave like a mob.:-c
 
abrowne said:
This is precisely why I scoff when people say "well, at least it gets kids to read." Sure - they read HP, but that doesn't mean they do any reading in the 8 months (or however long) in between.

But the young'ins are learning something far more valuable - how to behave like a mob.:-c
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Ours was delivered by amazon.com so no mob scene. And I get to read it first. At 600-700 pages, the books take awhile for a kid to read.

I don't see anything wrong with a bunch of kids reading the same book. No different than a bunch of adults reading the same best-seller.
 
Zoning Goddess said:
Ours was delivered by amazon.com so no mob scene. And I get to read it first. At 600-700 pages, the books take awhile for a kid to read.

I don't see anything wrong with a bunch of kids reading the same book. No different than a bunch of adults reading the same best-seller.
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My sister's daughter would test for one of the Harry Potter books for her "advanced reader" or whatever that program was called, and basically wipe out all the points she needed for the entire month and not have to read any of the other drivel on the book list.:) ;)
 
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