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Do women choose their female friends based on attractiveness?

Dan

Dan

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Right now. I'm sitting in the neighborhood coffee house, struggling to get just a morsel of information about COBRA health insurance coverage, and noticing a phenomenon that has mystified me since high school. A group of four very attractive, thin-to-average build "hottie"-type women are sitting at one table. At a table next to them sit three women that are absolutely huge, each probably 300 pounds or more.

I can't really phrase this in a politically correct manner, but it seems like women apparently seem to choose their friends based on how similar they are in attractiveness. In other words, they seem to self-segregate based on how attractive they are. Even among my friends that are women, I've noticed that the vast majority of their female friends are ... well, similarly attractive in appearance. I know someone will respond with "selection bias!", but I REALLY notice the times when I see a group of female friends gathered together, one fat, one a hottie, one average looking, and so on, because such gatherings are so unusual.
 
I would have to say yes.... and no. I think that the phenomenon that you observe is actually a carry over from the cast system. People will only associate with members of similar culture, social, ethnic, or financial backgrounds. In the cases that you observe it is based on a social perception or even expectation to socialize those appearance groups to spend time with each other. It is similar with other classification groupings, especially in dense areas and amongst younger groups.

I have two college friends. One looked like a Barbie doll, the other was about twice the weight. Living in a small rural town, there was a limited pool of friends to choose from. After college, the two grew apart because they both moved much larger cities, and now they subscribe to the ‘associate with those like me’ persona.

I guess it also raises a question about the importance of appearance when we judge people.

Bob drives a 1985 pickup that is rusted out, has body parts of different colors, and a cracked back window.

Ed drives a 2006 Lexus SUV that never looks dirty, has tinted windows, and leather interior.

Based on the two cases above, a person could easily see that the above two have different lives, social circles, and incomes. But do they?

Do you think that we judge a book by it’s cover when it comes to people. We establish preconceived notions about the persons life based on their appearance? When you see a person dress in a suite walking down a busy street in an office district, do you have a different perception of a person in jeans and a T-shirt?

I think that we often association specific physical attributes to in internal registry to determine if the person is healthy, wealthy, or has it together. I have heard that this is partly based on a subconscious desire to find a healthy person to have kids with, but I think that it is often more about a social expectation than anything else. It is rare that you see a guy or girl who is in the gym all the time working out and is extremely fit with a person who is considerably overweight. Part of it might be the whole, concept of “Hey, I take care of my body and I expect my partner/spouse/BF/GF/SO to do the same.” I think that this can also carry over into friendships too.
 
No. For one...I think some people who are heavy can be attractive...Queen Latifah, the guy who played the lead on King of Queens.

I think people with similar interests hang out together. I don't think it has so much to do the fact that they are heavy or skinny that they hang out together. People who like excercise, exercise together, etc..
 
Humm I always figured women did more of the "queen bee" thing with one or two very attractive women and a group of somewhat less attractive women. The attractive woman is the default head of the group, sets the tone and dictates the social calender of the hen house. Frequently the less attractive women will try to mimic the more attractive one and flirt with her mates friends, the pretty by association game.
 
PlannerGirl said:
Humm I always figured women did more of the "queen bee" thing with one or two very attractive women and a group of somewhat less attractive women. The attractive woman is the default head of the group, sets the tone and dictates the social calender of the hen house. Frequently the less attractive women will try to mimic the more attractive one and flirt with her mates friends, the pretty by association game.
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That has been my observation as well.
 
PlannerGirl said:
Humm I always figured women did more of the "queen bee" thing with one or two very attractive women and a group of somewhat less attractive women. The attractive woman is the default head of the group, sets the tone and dictates the social calender of the hen house. Frequently the less attractive women will try to mimic the more attractive one and flirt with her mates friends, the pretty by association game.
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That would be her mates wingman;-)
 
Indeed the wingmen.

But guys how many of the wingmen fall for this? Do the men see whats going on as clearly as I think its happening? Are the other girls as "attractive" as the queen bee due to the association?
 
I think men can fall into the same patterns too. A cafe table full of upscale, male-model types probably won't include a guy who looks like Michael Moore.
 
In a word, Yes. And I don't think most dudes give a damn what other guys look like when it comes to friends. It's just different.
 
PlannerGirl said:
Humm I always figured women did more of the "queen bee" thing with one or two very attractive women and a group of somewhat less attractive women. The attractive woman is the default head of the group, sets the tone and dictates the social calender of the hen house. Frequently the less attractive women will try to mimic the more attractive one and flirt with her mates friends, the pretty by association game.
Click to expand...

I've actually kinda noticed a backfiring of this phenomenon in an organization I'm part of where the non-attractive women pushed the sole attractive woman out of the group in an effort to be "queen bees" themselves, because they so desperately crave attention and the only way they might get it is if they take the hot girl out of the equation. As a result of this bitch move (among other things), all the men in the group, myself included, as well as the hottie, have broken off from them and want nothing to do with them anymore. Isn't drama fun?
 
This "absolutely huge" woman has friends of many shapes, sizes, colors, and nationalities, both men and women. Most of my friends also are part of other pretty diverse circles as well. I don't think most associations are based on looks, more likely based on common interests, careers, or lifestyles.

Not to piss in your cheerios Dan, but is it really necessary to refer to someone as "absolutely huge"? Just because it isn't to your taste (which we already know) doesn't mean that you should bash it. I mean I don't run around calling people who are thin twigs or chicken wings when describing them.
 
I choose my friends that are uglier and huskier than me, don't dress quite right and might have been dropped on their heads as a child. In that way, when people compare and contrast me to the friends, I look a whole lot more attractive. Check some of the Alefest pictures. See what I mean? :-D ;-)


RJ runs and hides....
 
Are you kidding? My friends are all over the map in many ways: looks, education, professions, background, country of origin, etc. We have common histories (had great fun working together), common interests (planning, books, going to the beach), bonded when our kids became friends, all kind of ways. It comes down to a couple things for me, we have fun together and trust each other. I could not have more fun than spending an afternoon at sisterceleste's along with TN, LadyBuc, and our buddy Darlene. And we are all so different in a lot of ways but we are all a bunch of smart-a$$es, funny people, with a connection to planning.

I have had some absolutely beautiful friends who are not stuck up about it and just hang out with whoever they like. They were all married or had boyfriends and sure didn't need me around to make them look better.

On the other hand, I have been around yuppie mama snobs who won't even talk to you if you aren't a 5'9" thin blonde married to a rich guy.
 
Well with all the "queen bee" this and "queen bee" that....I thought I should at least jump in.
Perhaps just guessing that what you are describing might be more so in a larger population. I am certainly not a small person but my friends are extremely varied.

I believe that there is something to it that close friends that hang out all the time tend to be more alike. Friends can support you in a diet or can sabatoge it in a heart beat.

Size may not really have anything to do with it... I tend to hang out more with people for their sense of humor...
 
It's funny, I was just noticing today how a close friend of mine at work and I look a lot alike. However, we do not have the same body type: I am slightly above average height and curvy/plump, while my friend is a short and slight.

What we have in common physically is coloring, clothing style, and posture. Of course we also have lots of other things in common (profession, for starters).

Remember: "correlation does not equal causation." Sharing experiences builds friendships, and certain activities and interests seem likely to play a role in the attractiveness/friendship connection. For example, people can meet at the gym or playing sports. Certainly not all athletes are thin, but they are more likely to be.

I imagine eating can play a role as well, especially since eating is often an important social activity. I certainly have my "foodie" friends, and they do tend to be . . . well-fed.

So I guess I acknowledge that this dynamic can occur, but the reason may a little more subtle.
 
Author Tom Wolfe coined a term in his book Bonfire of the Vanities for snobby social and class conscious people, he called them "Social X-rays" . Uber gaunt,well coiffed, over primped, and shamelessly armed with condescending attitudes towards lesser beings. I find this attitude alive and well in some parts of suburbia.

But no I think most sincere and well adjusted men and woman who are comfortable in their own skin are accepting of all body types and for friends.
 
Thinking back to high school and college... when I actually had a circle of girl friends... we were very diverse. A couple were downright HOT, a couple were anorexic (seriously, but have since gotten help), a couple were overweight (and they tended to be the silliest, most fun, ones) and then there were a couple that were completely average in every way... including myself.

But, we all had similar interests... the outdoors, making beaded jewelry, watching B movies, kareoke, not being too terribly fashionable, etc.

I'm guessing the table of attractive girls became friends because they have similar interests, which include getting brazilian waxes, spending an hour a day doing their hair, making fun of nerdy guys, and spending money they don't have on clothes and accessories. Okay, that was a huge generalization. I'm sorry :-$.

But, I'm afraid to say that I do think some "hot" women probably refuse to associate with "non-hot" women. And that makes them the type of shitty friend that only similar women would ever want to hang out with.
 
Sororities

hmm, thinking back on college, and my sorority days....the individual sororities seemed to each have girls of equal 'attractiveness' including my own. You know, there were sororities with the 'pretty' girls, the 'athletic' girls, the 'academic' girls, etc. Some sororities were more diverse than others with the types of girls they had, but you could definitely make generalizations!

But in general, don't they say your eating habits are similar to your friend's eating habits, hence why you would see the groups out at a cafe?
 
kjelsadek said:
I don't think most associations are based on looks, more likely based on common interests, careers, or lifestyles.
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Having these things in common would indirectly lead to similar personal appearances, though, right? Especially lifestyles and non-professional interests.

kjelsadek said:
I mean I don't run around calling people who are thin twigs or chicken wings when describing them.
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But you could and most of us who are 20+ pounds underweight probably wouldn't take offense at it. As far as social stigma (concerning attractiveness) and health issues, underweight and overweight are both not that great, and I don't think one is worse than the other. Especially me being male and underweight.
 
Dan said:
Right now. I'm sitting in the neighborhood coffee house, struggling to get just a morsel of information about COBRA health insurance coverage...
Click to expand...


[ot]By law they need to send you the full info witin 14 days of your last day of insurance coverage.[/ot]
 
Hmm. I pick friends based on personality, honestly. I have some friends who are nice looking and some who are not. Actually the nicer friends I have tend toward the latter. Most of the time I'm hanging out with a male though because I tend to stick with networking versus friendships. I usually can't get the guys to leave me alone. Got to beat them off with a stick. :)
 
I think most people tend to notice what is "similar" about folks grouped together. I know a woman at work who is probably in her fifties, heavy-set, likes to dress well, is very busty and is white. She often has lunch with a coworker who is about 30 years old and black, but heavy-set, dresses well, and is very busty. She is also friends with another woman at work who is older and white, dresses well, but goes to aerobics regularly so she is quite thin and not terribly busty. I think if you see the first woman with either of these two people, you can see them as "similar" in some ways but wouldn't necessarily see much similarity between the busty black woman and the older woman who goes to aerobics. (And I can't say I ever see those two hang together.) I think it would be hard to predict from seeing her with the black woman that she is also friends with the other woman. So if you see a bunch of women together and see similarities between them, it doesn't necessarily mean all their other friends will look like that. It may just mean you don't know that much about their lives and are drawing conclusions based on very limited data.

I also think that in some ways what one looks like is determined by how one lives. If you go to the gym a lot and then go out to lunch with your friends from the gym, most likely you will have "similar" body types (in that you are probably similarly fit because you may have met taking the same classes and are doing some of the same types of exercises). If you are coworkers, that will likely influence how you dress to some degree and that can make you look "similar". Etc.

And, of course, "level of attractiveness" is not entirely objective.
 
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cch said:
Thinking back to high school and college... when I actually had a circle of girl friends... we were very diverse. A couple were downright HOT, a couple were anorexic (seriously, but have since gotten help), a couple were overweight (and they tended to be the silliest, most fun, ones) and then there were a couple that were completely average in every way... including myself.

But, we all had similar interests... the outdoors, making beaded jewelry, watching B movies, kareoke, not being too terribly fashionable, etc.

I'm guessing the table of attractive girls became friends because they have similar interests, which include getting brazilian waxes, spending an hour a day doing their hair, making fun of nerdy guys, and spending money they don't have on clothes and accessories. Okay, that was a huge generalization. I'm sorry :-$.

But, I'm afraid to say that I do think some "hot" women probably refuse to associate with "non-hot" women. And that makes them the type of shitty friend that only similar women would ever want to hang out with.
Click to expand...

Word up.

I think more than just physical attributes - people tend to choose friends that share values. Most of my girlfriends are now 30 something, well educated, middle class, physically active moms. Because that's pretty much who I am. A couple have BMIs over 25, but I don't think any would be classified "obese". Not that I wouldn't have obese friends - but the only time I have to spend with my girlfriends is at playdates and running, and we are able to talk much more meaningfully when we're running, than when we're referreeing Toddler Thunderdome.

I think its human nature to want to spend time with people who affirm your beliefs and values. People who highly value their own attractiveness are going to hang out with other people who highly value their own attractiveness. People who enjoy spending their weekends drinking beer and playing hours upon hours of Halo are going to find like minded friends.

It sounds like I've been rather blessed to find such smart, fun and supportive girlfriends - because I haven't had to deal with the Queen Bee (PG's not QB's Queen Bee) Theory of Female Friendships since I got out of middle school.
 
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